Blackwater - one good reason to own a gun

[ProudDad]

If these clowns showed up in my town after some national disaster like New Orleans, I'd hope there'd be a counter-force ready to take them out.

This crypto-christo-fascist bunch of mercenaries have NO PLACE in our society. I'm not afraid of the national guard or, to some extent, the cops in an emergency situation but I'm damn afraid of an unaccountable bunch of killers for hire run by a christianist, fundamentalist, bigoted asshole.

The DEMS MUST eliminate this fucked up rush to privatize the military. It should be ILLEGAL to have a private military force in this country.

[YOY]

1. "Mercenaries"

Amazing that's what the media doesn't call them...instead they say "contractors". A sure sign things are fucked up in the MSM.

A "Contractor" fixes your fence or builds a house...he doesn't kill your neighbor.

[formercia]

2. agreed

They can go play their Left Behind games on some other Planet.

[MUAD_DIB]

3. I'm surprised the Dems haven't tried to eliminate these

so called "contractors" from the Iraq Spending bill.

I agree. There is no room for mercs in the US: publicly or privately funded.

[Monk06]

8. The cooperation of US troops with Blackstone Mercs may be covered by Posse Comitatus. Or not ...

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/cc/baker1.html




Chapter 263, Section 15, Army as Posse Comitatus:

From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section, and any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.




The National Security Act of 1947 created the Department of Defense by combining the War Department and Department of the Navy. This new entity was defined by US Code Title 10. The existing Title 10 reference to Posse Comitatus is:

Sec. 375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnel. The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulation as maybe necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment of facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.

There is an exception in Title 10 which permits Special Operations Forces to train civilian law enforcement in counter-terrorism and anti-terrorism including counter-drug enforcement and against weapons of mass destruction. (See also Title 18, Section 831.)

The second definition of Posse Comitatus in the US Code is found in Title 18, Part I, Chapter 6, Section 1385:

Whoever, except in such cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

[Blue_Tires]

14. Blackwater and similar companies

are politically connected at the highest levels of the Defense Dept.--That is why they operate with impunity no matter which party controlls congress

[Larkspur]

4. A single gun won't protect you from Blackwater

There will always be someone faster at the drawing of a gun than you or you will be outgunned by gangs of gunslingers, like Blackwater. That was the problem with the Wild West. Democracy can not survive on the barrel of a gun. People must be willing to pass and obey fair laws to live by and use non-violence to change bad laws.

[ProudDad]

5. I agree

a single gun wouldn't do any good.

a hundred guns for each of these mercenary fucks would.

I'm just trying to rethink my anti-gun stance. I personally won't own one but I know how to use one...learned in the military.

However, I might think about stealing a few if my town became another Katrina situation and these assholes showed up here.

[Larkspur]

7. I understand your feelings

The Founding Fathers of our nation had to use guns to separate from Great Britain. If the Repukes use Blackwater to overthrow our democracy, I'd join you in forming a new militia.

[EFerrari]

9. You know that the CA Office of Homeland Sekurity

employs one of their old lobbyists and that they want to move here and "respond" to earthquakes?

[karlrschneider]

12. I guess the Minutemen were just a bunch of gun nuts, huh?

:eyes:

[Jack_DeLeon]

13. I agree and disagree...

Yes, coordinated groups of armed invidiuals will most often outfight a single armed individual. Also groups with better training and communications will usually best armed mobs.

That being said I think it would still be idiotic to just lay down and do nothing and allow your rights or the rights of your loved ones to be trampled on if you can do something to stop it.

I'm a gun owner, I own a handgun and an AK style rifle. I have no illusions of being rambo. Fighting an enemy squad in a stand up fight would be trouble, hell a two man fireteam is trouble two since one can fire to keep you pinned while the other manuevers. That being I would fight to protect the lives of my family even if it only meant shooting at them them and getting out of there with my loved ones.

It is a sad state of affairs when people arent willing to fight to protect those they care about. During WWII lots of people would probably have decided to do something different had they known what thier eventual outcome would be.

IMO democracy most definately can and should survive on the barrel of a gun, I'm no communist but Mao was exactly correct when he talked about political power coming from the barrel of a gun. Democracy works not because my vote is some sacred instrument, democracy works because behind every vote is an indivdual who could in theory choose to take up arms if his vote isnt respected.

I agree with using non violent methods to work torwards removing bad laws, however violence is definately a tool I would use to protect the lives of myself and my loved ones.

[Larkspur]

19. Gandhi didn't use a gun to fight injustice and tyranny

And my Irish ancestors used guns to fight the British and lost their battles. Guns are no guarentee for freedom. I don't object to fighting tyranny, but guns should be the last resort.

Resisting tyranny is critical, but it is not always done with a gun. When we resort to guns, that means we've lost the public relations battle in this nation.

[Jack_DeLeon]

20. Frankly if my life or the life of my loved ones is on the line...

I dont give a fuck about "public relations," that would be the last thing on my mind.

I would not use violence on someone who merely disagreed with me about something, or because I disagreed with a law, but I would definately be willing to meet violence with violence.

[chaska]

6. Pacifism must end. Edit: Read 'Endgame - Vol. II Resistance' by Derrick Jensen.

I agree with everything you said. This from someone who doesn't own a gun, and who has always been anti-gun.

There is reason to worry about what is happening and what WILL happen in the future.

On that cryptic note....

[tridim]

10. Crypto-Christo-fascist mercenaries who are now returning from Iraq where..

they were encouraged to torture and/or kill any Iraqi they felt was an "enemy" with NO legal repercussions. Now they're home, and ready to kill more people in Gawd's name.

As far as I'm concerned they're nothing more than a well funded domestic terrorist group/cult.

[KharmaTrain]

11. Beam Me Up...Wasn't Blackwater A Reason For The Second Ammendment??

While the government can't send federal troops in without violating Comme Possitatus (I know I blew the spelling) law, but contractors are the end-around. It didn't seem that long ago I read a screed on some message board about how companies like Blackwater and other private contractors were an example of how the Second Ammendment works...how it protects us where the government won't or can't. How that worm has turned.

I don't blame you for being very, very suspicious.

[Selatius]

15. I hate to slam pacifism, but it seems that when one adopts pacifism in...

certain environments that, although hostile, are not too violent, pacifism can win the day. Gandhi and Martin Luther King proved that, but I believe there are environments that are so brutal, so violent that when one does adopt pacifism, it will lead to one's extinction. I prefer pacifism, but I am under no illusions when dealing with the kind of people who are more than willing to kill the Gandhis and Martins of the world.

[aikoaiko]

16. how can we eliminate private security guards?

Because thats all they really are. Yes, many have war experience prior to and in Blackwater, but they are still just private security guards subject to the same laws as everyone else in the US.

[piedmont]

17. It's one of the major reasons I support the right to keep and bear arms.

I take it as a given that any given government of any country will fall into the wrong hands every once in a while, and the people will always have to be vigilant and prepared to defend themselves as best they can.

[Decruiter]

18. Amen, brother, amen. n/t

[Wiley50]

21. I'm armed

and try to keep at least 500 rds on hand at all times