Obama Admin's Pentagon revives Rumsfeld-era domestic spying unit

[NightWatcher]

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0619/pentagon-revives-domestic-spying-unit/

The Pentagon's spy unit has quietly begun to rebuild a database for tracking potential terrorist threats that was shut down after it emerged that it had been collecting information on American anti-war activists.

The Defense Intelligence Agency filed notice this week that it plans to create a new section called Foreign Intelligence and Counterintelligence Operation Records, whose purpose will be to "document intelligence, counterintelligence, counterterrorism and counternarcotic operations relating to the protection of national security."

But while the unit's name refers to "foreign intelligence," civil liberties advocates and the Pentagon's own description of the program suggest that Americans will likely be included in the new database.

FICOR replaces a program called Talon, which the DIA created in 2002 under then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld as part of the counterterrorism efforts following the 9/11 attacks. It was disbanded in 2007 after it emerged that Talon had retained information on anti-war protesters, including Quakers, even after it was determined they posed no threat to national security.

<snip>


The Pentagon's notice states that the database will collect "identifying information such as name, Social Security Number (SSN), address, citizenship documentation, biometric data, passport number, vehicle identification number and vehicle/vessel license data." As only US residents have Social Security Numbers, it appears the program is being designed at least partly to contain domestic information.

Yes, I added the "Obama Admin's" to the title of the post from the original story, but he is after all the Commander In Chief, isnt he?

From a comment posted below the story: "Slowly we give away essential freedoms for the illusion of security. Democrat or Republican it doesn't matter who is in office they are both the war party, the only difference is the pace."

[Autumn]

1. I seem to remember someone saying that

those who would sacrifice essential Liberties for temporary safety, deserve neither. Old quote but very true.

[midnight]

2. True.

[neverforget]

23. What you said!

[Catherina]

3. So what has changed exactly? n/t

[glitch]

4. Spokesmodels nt

[Robb]

19. Read it for yourself:

...courtesy the Federal Register.

http://frwebgate3.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/TEXTgate.cgi?WAISdocID=2fdbAX/0/1/0&WAISaction=retrieve

[katandmoon]

5. Well, if there were any question about why Obama's DOJ won't prosecute Bush/Cheney crimes...

It's because Obama's administration is just as criminal.

[jonnyblitz]

29. that's what I've been saying . nt

[MadHound]

6. On civil liberties there appears to be little difference between Bush and Obama,

So much for that "change" we were promised.

[BeFree]

7. Well, duh!!

It is a well known fact that anti-war activists are dangerous.
Remember 4 dead in OHIO?

The pentagon fears the anti-war activists.

[OKNancy]

8. A better reading is at Newsweek

the place where rawstory lifted the article and changed a few words
http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/2010/06/18/pentagon-spies-build-new-database-on-foreign-and-domestic-threats.html

Edit to add: and they left out this
Black said that the new database would not include the highly controversial aspects of TALON, a database assembled by a spooky Pentagon spy outfit called Counterintelligence Field Activity (CIFA), set up during the George W. Bush administration.

<snip>

A defense official, who also did not want to be named, insisted that the new unit, unlike CIFA, had no law-enforcement powers. He maintained that the new system would not repeat abuses similar to those which occurred with TALON. But the official said that theoretically, stored data could include information on domestic activists or protestors who might not be violent at present, but could be deemed to pose a potential threat of violence in future. The official said that unlike TALON, the new DCHC database would not include field reports generated by military counterintelligence agencies with domestic field offices, such as the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division, the Navy Criminal Investigative Service, or the Air Force Office of Special Investigations. However, if those agencies were to ask DIA or DCHC to become involved in one of their cases, then information about the case could well be entered in the new DCHC database. The official had no estimate of how many records on individual subjects—including Americans—would be stored.
------------

Typical hyperventilation.

If anyone here thinks that "the Obama administration" is just like Bush needs to , well.....

[MadHound]

9. Given this comes on top of things like Obama's ongoing support for the Patriot Act

And declaration of citizens as enemy combatants, and assassination of US citizens, well, the comparison between Bush and Obama is becoming more and more apt on the issue of civil liberties.

Oh, and let's not forget that when Bush started TALON, it was supposed to be fairly benign as well.

[OKNancy]

10. Anwar al-Awlaki might just need killin' .

n/t

[Robb]

11. No one ever suggested TALON was anything but what it was

...a blanket opportunity to spy on anyone, anytime.

Ignoring the differences here is counterproductive. There are real issues with FICOR, none of which are addressed in this latest breathless hand-wringer of an article.

Please, to educate yourself, visit the Federal Register and read Doc 2010-14254.

Since most won't, here's one thing to actually be concerned about with FICOR:

Retention and disposal:

Production Records: TemporaryCutoff annually; hold 2 years; transfer to the Washington National Records Center (WNRC); destroy when records are 10 years old.

Intelligence Reports: PermanentCutoff annually, hold 3 years, transfer to WNRC. Retire to the National Archives when 3540 years old.

Intelligence Products: PermanentCutoff annually, hold 3 years, transfer to WNRC. Retire to the National Archives when 3540 years old.

Intelligence Collection Records: TemporaryCutoff annually and destroy.

Intelligence Data Base Records: TemporaryDestroy when no longer needed for current operations.

Paper records are destroyed by shredding, pulping, or burning; electronic records are erased from the data base.

...Did you catch it? Toward the end there. ;)

[MadHound]

15. No, actually if you go back and read about TALON,

It was a fairly benign sounding programs, that was supposed to spy on potential terrorists. It wasn't revealed that it would spy on anti-war folks. That was only found out later, which is why I don't trust all the supposed assurances about this new program.

And again, this is coming on top of Obama's already dismal, Bush like record on civil rights. Thus, while you may not like it, I do think that the comparison is apt.

[Robb]

16. We must've been reading different journals.

;)

Anyhow, it went online in late 2002, got http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2003/06/59365">Wired's attention in 2003, and closed in 2007. As I said above, there are a lot of differences between the two programs, including the reasons to dislike them.

[Hydra]

12. Hyperventilation?

"But the official said that theoretically, stored data could include information on domestic activists or protestors who might not be violent at present, but could be deemed to pose a potential threat of violence in future."

Blank check on domestic spying database. You ok with that?

Gotta love thoughtcrime.

[NightWatcher]

13. "protestors who might not be violent at present, but..." time to arrest you for murder

you havent killed anyone yet, "but (you) could be deemed to pose a potential threat of violence in future"

[Individualist]

14. You can't defend the indefensible.

[Radical Activist]

21. Left pundits are failing us with exaggerations and articles that tell half the story.

I'd like to see Congressional hearings and investigative reporting to find out if the new program is repeating former abuses of civil liberties.

But, it doesn't help that effort to spin and leave out key facts from the story. It keeps happening over and over again. They're destroying their own credibility.

[Autumn]

25. Yes that Newsweek article is less sensational,

but it doesn't make Raw story's article any less true. And it doesn't change the fact that NO administration should have that much power.

[HughMoran]

30. Don't try to thwart a good manipulative remaking of an article

Intellectual honesty is not needed when attacking the "Obama Administration".

[cascadiance]

17. Don't forget that MZM was tied to CIFA earlier (and other related Duke Cunningham scandals)

It was about this time that MZM (and the host of Duke Cunningham scandals - Brent Wilkes, Dusty Foggo, Thomas Kontogiannis, Porter Goss, etc.) were tied in to the CIFA that the two heads of the CIFA at the time, Paull Burtt and Joseph Hefferon both simultaneously and mysteriously "both resigned" on the same date...

http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/2007/07/the-resignation.html

Also note that House Intelligence Chair, Democrat Sylvester Reyes, helped bury the report on Duke Cunningham later too, which should have signaled to us that a Democratic administration probably wouldn't have done much to change this culture of secrecy and coverup.

Note that Nancy Pelosi also appointed Porter Goss after he left the CIA during these messes to co-chair the House Ethics committee. And he later laughed at the news that he helped direct the CIA to destroy the interrogation tapes too.

We've got a long ways to go to "clean up" our government unfortunately.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. But..but.. they're spying on us to "protect" our freedoms.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :yoiks:

[USArmyParatrooper]

20. Enemies: Foreign and Domestic

Let's just break this down to sensible questions.

Do we want no spying at all taking place inside our borders, on Americans or otherwise? Of course we have to. I just think there should be accountability and they should receive warrants. In the case of certain unique situations that are time sensitive, get a FISA court warrant after the fact.

Does anyone have a problem with domestic spying on, say, extreme right-wing militia organizations? Whether they're right-wing, left-wing, or wherever their extremism comes from we do need to have domestic spying programs.

So what specific concerns are there about this program?

[NightWatcher]

22. spying on peace activists and other non violent protesters...sounds like COINTELPRO

the same way that the feds had intel files on MLK, John Lennon, Malcolm X......

MLK was no threat to anyone but those who stood against civil rights. Just as anti war, peace, etc protesters are a threat to warmongers, oppressors, corporate overlords....

PeTA, Sierra Club, and other indigenous rights groups have been targeted by the former admin using this type of blanket spy powers. If someone or some group is committing illegal acts, they fall under other areas of law when it comes to surveillance, but the targeting of legal activities "that may become illegal" sounds like it is straight out of Thought-crime and 1984.

[USArmyParatrooper]

24. OK, I agree with that but...

that's why I feel court warrants should be a part of the equation. Warrants weren't even mentioned in the article so I don't know if they are or not.

There IS such a thing as left-wing extremism, and I think all forms should be targeted for investigation. You draw the line at illegal acts. I draw the line at violent rhetoric, which today would end up targeting a whole lot of right wingers. Hint: "Gather.. your... armies!"

I understand that all of the insane power grabs by the Bush administration has people weary. My only point is that not all spy programs are inherently bad. We should look at each one based on merit, and above all else make sure there's accountability.

[Hydra]

26. They've made it clear they don't want to stay within the lines

ie: FISA gutting.

Frankly, in concept you're right. Law enforcement needs to be able to do this in order to fight crime. The problem is that they are not really in the job of fighting crime- their job is civil order(quiet).

In the right hands, these tools could have told us everything the Bush Admin was doing at the time. The problem is that they owned the system. Things have not changed significantly since then.

[USArmyParatrooper]

27. I personally know people who work in Intel

Including a couple of guys working in Counterintelligence. While they can't (and don't) share classified information with me, I can assure you they don't spend their time dealing with peace activists.

[Hydra]

28. Right, and that's why there was that bruhaha in Washington State

Remember that the people collecting, sorting and evaluating the info are databasing all of it for whoever else to decide what to do with it.

The gov't has so many layers of orders and (il)legalities I wonder if they get lost occasionally on the way to the coffee machine?