I am anti death penalty. But if we have to insist on doing it, can we find the most humane (ha) way?

[Stinky The Clown]

So that guy in Utah asked for, and got, the firing squad.

We prescribe other methods: gas, electricity, drugs, rope.

The chatter in the aftermath of the Utah event includes words like "brutal".

But is it? Really?

Again, I am unequivocally opposed to the death penalty. But it seems to me that if it must exist, the method that kills with the least pain and does it the fastest ought to be preferred. I recognize that everyone thought drugs would do that. But we have been "regaled" with stories of mouth foaming and wide eyes in paralyzed bodies as the drugs slooooowly do their work. We know that hanging is fast, maybe instant, unless its not. Gas is slow and painful, maybe no better than drowning. We have all heard the stories of prolonged scalp frying with electricity. It is perhaps the most horrible of the methods.

I'm thinking a firing squad may well be the most humane. A heart shot, a head shot, a spine shot. All seem pretty much instantaneous. A well done hanging is similarly fast.

The rest seem brutal to me. I think they're done because those consumed with their own hateful need for vengance also have a need to feel they are being "humane" at the last moment, the reality of their choices notwithstanding.

Of course, the best execution is no execution.

[hedgehog]

1. One hazard commonly found in industry is entering a confined space with little or no oxygen.

People enter and drop like a rock. It's not uncommon for two or three guys to be killed because the rescuers think they can hold their breath long enough to drag the first guy out.

So, if the reason (excuse) for execution is to make society safe and not simple vengeance (torture) why not put someone in an air tight compartment and gradually introduce argon or nitrogen?

Another upside is that unlike using cyanide gas, there is no hazard to the people around the execution site. Leave the prisoner in there a couple hours to ensure he's dead, then just open the chamber to atmosphere and set up a fan to flush fresh air in.

[cliffordu]

2. IIRC the russians take the condemned to various interviews

through a specific set of routes within the prison, and one day someone steps out from behind a doorway and puts a small caliber round into the condemned's brain stem.

No surprise, no yelling and screaming. No suffering.

[jmowreader]

32. Close but not quite...

They shoot you in an interrogation room. It has a table and two chairs in it, and your inquisitor always comes in through a door behind your chair--you're not allowed to turn around when the door opens. On the day of your execution, instead of an interrogator a KGB colonel walks in with a 9mm pistol in his hand and shoots you in the back of the head with it.

[cliffordu]

42. I like my version better, but yours is probably true.

[jmowreader]

45. That's the "nice, humane" way they do it

Then there was what they did to Marshal K.K. Rokossovskij's cellmates.

Rokossovskij was a loyal soldier of the Tsar's Army until the Communists started rearing their ugly heads. He became a fervent Communist and joined their army.

Then came the purges, where all the people who worked with the Tsar were rounded up. Three times they put Rokossovkij through a mock execution--they brought out Rokossovkij and two of his cellmates, have them dig their own graves, then force them to stand at the edge. The KGB shot the two other guys but only fired a blank round at the back of Rokossovkij's head.

I don't know about you, but of all the ways one could be executed, being forced to dig your own grave is real high on the "fucked up" scale.

[stray cat]

3. He chose to be killed by the method he used to kill his victims.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Yes, I know that.

That's beside the point of the OP

[NNN0LHI]

4. Killing someone in a humane way is like discussing collateral damage

Murder is murder.

When the Taliban government did it it was murder. When the US government does it it is still murder.

Don

[Stinky The Clown]

8. I agree completely. But trying to be (as currently celebrated around here) a pragmatist . . . . .

..... I am looking for the very fastest way to do the deed.

As said my closing OP statement: "The best execution is no execution."

[cliffordu]

43. And you see no difference in the offenses that result in the

executions...

Interesting.

[WeDidIt]

6. If I had to choose death by firing squad or by lethal injection

I'd take firing squad as the more humane methodology.

[canetoad]

7. That would probably be the guillotine

which is quick and rarely malfunctions.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. Good points.

You're quite right.

[jobycom]

12. Try this one on.

"The following report was written by a Dr. Beaurieux, who experimented with the head of a condemned prisoner by the name of Henri Languille, on 28 June 1905:

Here, then, is what I was able to note immediately after the decapitation: the eyelids and lips of the guillotined man worked in irregularly rhythmic contractions for about five or six seconds. This phenomenon has been remarked by all those finding themselves in the same conditions as myself for observing what happens after the severing of the neck …
I waited for several seconds. The spasmodic movements ceased. <…> It was then that I called in a strong, sharp voice: "Languille!" I saw the eyelids slowly lift up, without any spasmodic contractions – I insist advisedly on this peculiarity – but with an even movement, quite distinct and normal, such as happens in everyday life, with people awakened or torn from their thoughts.

Next Languille's eyes very definitely fixed themselves on mine and the pupils focused themselves. I was not, then, dealing with the sort of vague dull look without any expression, that can be observed any day in dying people to whom one speaks: I was dealing with undeniably living eyes which were looking at me. After several seconds, the eyelids closed again <…>.

It was at that point that I called out again and, once more, without any spasm, slowly, the eyelids lifted and undeniably living eyes fixed themselves on mine with perhaps even more penetration than the first time. Then there was a further closing of the eyelids, but now less complete. I attempted the effect of a third call; there was no further movement – and the eyes took on the glazed look which they have in the dead."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine#Living_heads

[Kitty Herder]

54. You've just given me the heebee jeebees for days. nt

[jobycom]

55. Yeah, did the same to me.

:scared:

[salguine]

46. But it's not instantaneous. Many studies have shown that the brain can remain

conscious for as long as ten to fifteen seconds after a clean beheading. That's frickin' creepy.

[DesertRat]

47. In medieval times after a beheading the executioner

would hold the head up to the crowd. The intention was not for the crowd to see the head, but for the head to see the crowd.

[zipplewrath]

9. Guillotine

Technically, probably what you want is the guillotine. Pretty instantaneous, don't even "see" it coming.

But really, better they do dumb crap like this that will hasten the ultimate end, than to try to make it some how "humane".

[mitchum]

11. Licked to death by puppies

[GreenStormCloud]

13. Breathe pure nitrogen, room temperature.

They would be breathing air with no oxygen. It is totally painless. We know this because that has happened to people who were not aware of it, but were rescused after they passed out.

It is simple to do. Just a hose from a nitrogen tank to a mask on the person's face. Then turn on the nitrogen.

It is fast. Takes only a few minutes.

There is no mess, except that the bowels and bladder relax. But they do that anyway.

BONUS: Organs can be used for transplants. (Assumes no sedatives in the last meal. Usually the traditional last meal is loaded with sedatives.)

[jmowreader]

34. That's been discussed.

Most of the discussions have revolved around building some sort of gas chamber--it wouldn't have to be elaborate like a cyanide chamber, just a room with weatherstripping around the door to keep the nitrogen in. People sometimes freak out when a mask is put on them for anesthetic, so the plan is to put the person in the room, strap them into a chair, close the door and replace the air in the chamber with nitrogen.

[GreenStormCloud]

40. That would work too, and would be cheap. N/T

[kenny blankenship]

14. Firing squad does the condemned prisoner the courtesy of not pretending his death

is anything besides a passion-driven act of violence.

[Bill McBlueState]

23. exactly

I'm not sure I favor "humane" executions. Dead is dead; making the process "humane" just makes it less likely that people will see the execution for what it is.

[Kitty Herder]

53. I agree.

I don't think it's really any more inhumane than other execution methods. It's just more offensive to delicate sensibilities. There is no humane way to kill.

[jobycom]

15. It's just hard to kill a human body without extreme violence to it.

The body fights for survival. People survive horrific accidents, bullet wounds, and all sorts of trauma. The brain stays alive as long as it can, even after the heart has stopped pumping, and the reverse is true when the brain goes first. Where is consciousness? Is it only in the brain, or is throughout the nervous system? Throughout history there have been reports of severed heads living seconds, even minutes, after decapitation (read my response to the Guillotine post above). One of the most famous is St. Paul, whose head was reported to have said "Jesus" three times after it was severed. That may just be a martyr story with no truth behind it, but there have always been such stories, especially after the guillotine.

I'm with you, I'm against the death penalty. Life is the ultimate right, and government should never be allowed to take it, even from those who clearly don't deserve life. I also would like to see the most humane death possible if the less evolved among us demand a death penalty, but I don't know what that could possibly be. The only deaths where I am convinced people don't suffer physically for very long are those of complete obliteration, like in an explosion that basically vaporizes them. Even that, though, creates an emotional and psychic horror from the anticipation that to me is automatically "cruel and unusual." (In many cases, when it's obvious the person is guilty, I'm really not overly worried about their emotional state, but there is still a principle of our own humanity at stake). So maybe the best thing to do is to tell someone they have been pardoned, then as they step into the antechamber just before being released, nuke them while they are happy and unprepared. I doubt that would go over well, either, though.

After that, I guess a person should be allowed to pick their own death. Until we abolish government-sponsored killing, I don't know what else to do.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. The St. Paul story ahs to be fabrication ......

... a severed head lacks the lungs to push air through the vocal cords to create the sound. He may well have mouthed the word, but no way could he have made a sound.

And yes, there are reports of severed heads continuing to function for moments after decapitation.

[jobycom]

31. It could be a bit of hyperbole...

You know, where the crowd saw the lips moving and the story grew. The point was only that we don't really know what a person feels and for how long after a decapitation.

Nice subject, eh? :)

[Stinky The Clown]

44. Yeah, I understood what you meant and yes .....

.... nice subject.

I actually thought about the phenomenon of the decapitated head still living a few moments. It actually makes perfect sense. I can also imagine that it feels no physical pain, but is aware of its (impending) death in a way no whole person can experience.

[JitterbugPerfume]

16. killing is killing

there is no humane way to do it . The death penalty is barbaric.

[arundhatiroyfan]

18. Good post.

The death penalty has to be abandoned

[Ignis]

17. Because it's not about Justice, but Vengeance.

That's why people enjoy watching "the bad guys" suffer their "comeuppance."

But I agree with your underlying argument: It would be nice if we could drag all the states into the 21st century in this regard.

[Iterate]

19. "How to Kill a Human Being"

From the BBC and worthwhile:

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/kill-human-being/

"Former Conservative MP Michael Portillo pushes his body to the brink of death in an investigation into the science of execution.

As the American Supreme Court examines whether the lethal injection is causing prisoners to die in unnecessary pain, Michael sets out to find a solution which is fundamentally humane.

Armed with startling new evidence, Michael considers a completely new approach."

It skips the unanswerable questions of "Who are you going to kill? and "How will you ever be sure? and gets to the point of the medieval barbarity.

[pipi_k]

20. My mom's cooking.

um...sorry....I forgot you were looking for humane ways...



hmmm...gotta give this more thought.

[Bluerthanblue]

21. maybe it should be done by the 'next of kin' of the victim-

which is what the 'avenger of blood' was supposed to be back in the time of 'clans', a barbaric thought maybe, but it's a barbaric custom.

I'm with you 100% Stinky- there is no such thing as a humane/good/right/appropriate execution.

[newtothegame]

22. For rape/torture/murder, the most humane thing is having them spend a few hours...

with the family and a toolbox in a sealed, soundproof room.

[Bill McBlueState]

24. no, it's not

And you know it.

[Codeine]

35. Oh good grief.

Do we really need that kind of disgusting filth being posted here? :puke:

Jerk.

[Raster]

25. Madame Guillotine

[eShirl]

27. I always wondered why they didn't just administer I.V. morphine to the point of death

[spanone]

28. ..'thou shalt not kill' no asteriks

[kiapolo]

29. HUGE EXPLOSION!

That how I would want to go. Blown to tiny bits...no pain...instantaneous....BOOM!

No one executed for their crime ever murdered again.

[TheKentuckian]

37. and a bunch of 'em never murdered anyone at all. true story

[Obamanaut]

36. Which is found in the same text, by the same mythological author, who

commanded a whole lot of people to be killed.

And who, according to the same text, drowned a whole lot.

And who, according to that same text, allowed one of his followers to be tortured and have his family and livestock killed (that would be Lot).

[NutmegYankee]

50. "Thou shalt not Murder"

Kill comes from the worst translation ever - KJV 1611

[quaker bill]

30. I once had this discussion

with a group of weapons engineers over cocktails. The bottom line is that killing someone is simply not a humane act. It cannot be done "humanely", it can however, I am assured by the designers, be done quite efficiently.

[Rex]

33. There is only one humane way to kill a human

and we don't have the technology yet to do it.

[Jamastiene]

38. Problem solved: Naturally

It's still a death penalty of sorts. No one knows when they are going to die, so there is no anticipation of the event. Death is the only real guarantee we have in life from the moment we are born. It will happen someday somehow. We just don't know when. So, whenever the death row inmate dies, naturally, the death penalty conditions of their sentence have been met.

Humane? I don't know, but a natural death in prison is still a death penalty. They still die in custody.

Of course, most will say this is a lame brained idea, but if the death penalty is the sentence and the prisoner is met with a natural death (whatever ends up killing them naturally), isn't the death penalty still technically carried out?

[hedgehog]

39. Oddly enough, your proposal would guarantee "life without parole"

[Jamastiene]

41. AND the death penalty at the same time....

if you really stop and think about it. I'm surprised no lawyer has caught onto this idea.

[DesertRat]

48. +1

[NutmegYankee]

49. Inert Gas asphyxia.

A person who dies from this, like a worker in a tank filled with nitrogen (o2 < 10%), never feel like they are out of breath because the carbon dioxide still is exhaled and they just pass out without warning. No Air hunger, no violence to the body, no need for delicate medical procedures.

[liberaltrucker]

51. Heroin overdose

Obviously painless. Smack being a painkiller (no pun intended).

[AnArmyVeteran]

52. Why not airlift them over enemy territory with a mission to protect our soldiers.

Like the guys in the movie, the Dirty Dozen. Instead of just letting them rot behind bars they could be of some use.

I believe when they are given a lethal injection it renders their organs unusable for transplant. That is sad considering all of the people in need of donors. At least a murderer could repay society in a positive way by having all of his organs harvested and used in needy patients. The firing squad naturally destroys the heart, when that organ could have been used to save a life. If we're going to execute someone we should at least use their bodies to save others. The entire system is so screwed up.

[undeterred]

56. Medicalizing killing may seem to make it less brutal

but reportedly its a pretty miserable way to die.

[anarch]

57. if I ever get the death penalty, I choose sharks

but not more than three, and if I win, then they don't get another try.