The military industrial complex needs to end when it consumes 50% our taxes.

[IChing]

to provide for the common welfare. How much should we spend on it?
They are asking for more now, you know that?
In the form of supporting out troops.

[mike_c]

1. minimal expenditure on a standing military....

Just the way the founders intended.

[IChing]

2. I wish the person that voted 50% would defend that vote.........

because it is the status quo.

[Jack_DeLeon]

16. I voted it.

I think we spend enough on military, just need to rebuilt our military and not do anything stupid again in the near future with it, so as to keep the balance of power because China is moving on up big time.

[IChing]

18. If we even doubled what they spend we would be safe.

That would cut it down to less than 10%





I really don't understand why we can rationalize waste of
monies for arms escalation

We spend more than all of
the world combined.

[Jack_DeLeon]

20. "The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra."

>I really don't understand why we can rationalize waste of
>monies for arms escalation

You ever study history? Most all of history is the study of man killing and waging war on one another. In that regard there is essentially no difference between man in present times and man in ancient times. I doubt its going to change anytime soon.

I think that latin phrase that translates to "if you desire peace prepare for war," is very accurate.

Although as we can see now that starting wars for no reason does not bring peace. Using our military and the mismanagement that we have had isnt going to make other nations fear us, infact they are more likely to attack us now that they see our weakness.

Had we continued to merely "prepare for war" instead of actually going to war then other nations wouldnt know our capabalities or weaknesses.

Anyways the fact of the matter is that Iraq got attacked and North Korea didnt because North Korea was preparing for war but hadnt started one in modern times, yet Iraq had, lost, and wasnt really prepared any longer.

Hopefully our history does not mirror that of Iraq.

[lligrd]

29. Was That Latin Phrase Coined

Right before Rome fell?

[Jack_DeLeon]

30. That doesnt make the phrase any less correct...

Countries that are prepared to fight are prepared are harrassed less by agressors.

North Korea compared to Iraq.

Switzerland compared to the rest of Europe.

[lligrd]

32. I Say It Made It Suspect

Seems to me that Rome got a bit war happy leading to its downfall.

[gravity]

3. I don't think it should be based off a percentage of our taxes

We just need to make sure we can adequately defend our nation right now, and prepare for possible future conflicts.

Currently we spend way too much though.

[Jack_DeLeon]

7. I dont think we spend way too much, but it is definately being mismanaged...

Especially the big chunk in Iraq.

IMO Congress does alot of things that are not specifically mentioned in the US constitution, but national defense is definately in there. Esentially it and the legal sytem are among the few things the Consitution explicity allows the federal government to create.

[IChing]

8. Who and what are you defending gravity?

International Corporations in the world?


Who tells you what is adequate? Care to have a real opinion?

[Jack_DeLeon]

12. Personally...

I think we need a smaller homebased military but more R&D into better equipment and more training.

More planning on fighting off alien invaders preferably before they make landfall. I think militarization of space would be a good thing.

[gravity]

17. We need to defend our country and our interest

I don't know what the exact value is since I'm not an expert, but we should be strong enough to take on the next powerful military in the world.

Not suggesting that we should attack anyone, but it's in our interest to have the ability to do so.

[Solon]

27. Total world budget in military expenditures is a little over 1 trillion dollars...

the United States constitutes almost half that amount, all by itself, and the next highest country, in 2005 at least, was China, at less than half what we spend. Per capita, the United States spends over 1 thousand dollars, per person, in this country, just to "defend" us. We spend far too much on this, and the 2007 budget deficit almost matches the military budget, that should tell you that this is simply a waste.

The figures on worldwide military expenditures is a PDF file, so I hope you have a reader.

Link:

http://www.sipri.org/contents/milap/milex/mex_major_spenders.pdf

The figure on our budget deficit was found on Wikipedia, link is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget%2C_2007

[scrinmaster]

4. The military is only 17% of the budget.

[IChing]

5. Bullshit.......show me your link

[Kelly Rupert]

10. He's right.

The military consumes half of our discretionary spending--that is, what is not entitlements. Cut out medicare, medicaid, social security, and welfare. Debt interest doesn't count either. The military takes up half of what's left.

[gravity]

6. Does that include Iraq?

[IChing]

14. No, of course not

that is just a Yes stupid......it is a part of the fancy enron expenditure that doesn't' count.

[Jack_DeLeon]

9. Yeah I've heard that...

social services esentially take up the majority of our taxes.

[IChing]

19. thanks for your Jack....de.......Le-on thoughts

care to have a link?

[Jack_DeLeon]

21. Ever do your income taxes...

you can find a very similar chart at the back pages of your tax form instructions.

Also look it up on wikipedia FWIW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget

[Selatius]

23. That pie chart omits the fact that Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Unemployment aren't...

discretionary. They fund themselves. Unemployment insurance is funded by a taxes paid by employers, and the other three are funded through their own payroll taxes and are not discretionary.

The only reason they were incorporated into the discretionary budget was because Johnson was trying to hide the real costs of his war 40 years ago by off-setting the debts being run up with the surpluses going into Social Security. Since that time, the two have not been separated.

Now, since the OP was talking about all of our taxes in general, then that pie chart is fair in representing how much money should or shouldn't go to the military-industrial complex.

[IChing]

24. Thank you.........n/t

[Jack_DeLeon]

26. They are still taxes that are paid by someone...

whether the SS comes out of my paycheck itemized or if it were lumped in with my other taxes it is still a tax.

NM I read the end of your post.

[Kelly Rupert]

25. I've provided one a bit lower in the thread.

[TahitiNut]

15. OASDI/HI should always be stated separately ... it pays for itself and isn't discretionary.

When the federal budget is presented in an intellectually honest way, military spending and all the direct effects of military spending (interest, VA) is by far the greatest part of the discretionary spending.

[Kelly Rupert]

11. 50% of our taxes? Sorry, but no.

The majority of our taxes go to entitlement programs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget%2C_2007

[Alexander]

31. Read #23. Says it all.

In reality it's about 50%. The chart you're referencing is cooked. Not to mention it doesn't include the enormous cost of the Iraq War - much of which is contracted out.

I voted for 20%, and that means 20% including all the contracts and other crap they leave out when they make charts like these. 1/5 of the budget devoted to military and military-related (that's how they get you) costs ought to be sufficient.

[Kelly Rupert]

35. No, it doesn't.

Those are still taxes that are paid. The data I'm referencing are not "cooked," they are a summation of ALL MONEY taken in by the Gov't and ALL MONEY spent. Arbitrarily cutting out entitlement programs vecause some of them are partially paid for through SS taxes is cooking.

The military is half of DISCRETIONARY spending. Not half of ALL spending.

[Selatius]

13. I think the government takes in roughly 2 trillion dollars a year in total revenue.

At ten percent of that, that's 200 billion a year. Under Clinton, defense spending bounced around between 200 and 300 billion a year. Today, the budget for the Pentagon is 600 billion and higher.

[IChing]

22. I voted for 30% on a personal level .

I only spend 30% of my life's existence thinking that people want to harm me
and they have.

I think that more you spend on Killing
it puts way too much life into that being
that shouldn't really exist but is there to
protect us from our fears that make us human.

[Solon]

28. Far lower than 10%, that much is sure...

We need just enough of a military to protect American TERRITORY, not our "interests" whatever the fuck those are. Its simply stupid to borrow and spend ourselves into bankruptcy just to defend a few corporations who pay only about a quarter of the taxes into the federal budget compared to individuals.

[Solo_in_MD]

33. What is the current percentage might be a good place to start the discussion from

[Odin2005]

34. around 20%, IMO

We should have a small, but very highly trained military like they have in many European countries.