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Bronx charter school's entire curriculum is based on the marshmallow test.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 06:54 PM
Original message
Bronx charter school's entire curriculum is based on the marshmallow test.
KIPP Bronx charter school principal, Joe Negron, says they have a very big culture of "earning" at their school. My first reaction was that there should be the letter "L" at the start of the word...learning, not earning.

There are different levels of learning and knowledge, and delayed gratification in my opinion plays only a small role.

Basing a whole school's policy on the Marshmallow test from the 1960s that only involved 35 children? They could have one marshmallow, or they could wait and get another.

Maybe they just didn't like marshmallows enough to wait for another.

'Marshmallow Test' May Help Predict Kids' Success

"The ability to take the future into account, to control behavior for the sake of delayed consequences, to resist temptation," Dr. Mischel says.

At KIPP Infinity charter school in the Bronx, the entire curriculum is based on the marshmallow test.

"We have a very big culture of earning at our school," Principal Joe Negron says.


Negron says from getting a locker to going on a field trip, students must wait for – and earn – all privileges.
"They begin to realize that, just like in life, your good behaviors will result in you earning more things later on," Negron says.


Negron seems very concerned with "earning". He uses the word frequently. I would prefer he be more concerned about "learning."

Rewards are fine, but real learning involves a level of communication way beyond anything as simplistic as the Marshmallow Test.

The Marshmallow Test is said to be an indicator of success in later life. It may be. But we should not base our education system on it.

The pictures from the tests are cute and appealing, but I think there is more to the learning process.

More on the test.

A child's ability to delay gratification for 15 minutes pays educational dividends years later, studies find


In the Marshmallow Test, a child can have one treat immediately, or two if he can wait 15 minutes. The ability to wait is called "executive function." KEITH BEATY/TORONTO STAR

The Marshmallow Test got its name from an experiment at Stanford University in the 1960s on 4-year-old nursery school pupils. Researchers told children that they could have one thing they really wanted right away – a marshmallow, or a candy or a cookie, for example – but if they could wait while the researcher left the room and came back about 15 minutes later, they could have two.

It was designed to test self-control. The researchers, led by psychologist Walter Mischel, found only about 30 per cent of more than 600 children tested could hold out.

That's as far as it went until the early 1980s, when Mischel followed up and discovered the children who had been able to wait for two marshmallows were also doing better academically.


Of course self-discipline plays a role in learning. But it is only one part.

I remember I just loved school. I loved reading just to find out new things. I could not wait for the next trip to the city library to check out more books. There were no other motives with me back then. I just loved to learn.

I think I would have viewed the Marshmallow Test with skepticism if it were given to me.
I have taught many kids who would have caught on that they were being manipulated by that marshmallow there on a plate.

I tend to agree with this Daily Beast blog post from February of this year.

Just let them eat the marshmallow.

Judging a kid's ability to delay gratification by whether they eat a marshmallow or not is a ridiculous way of predicting their future achievement, say Po Bronson and Ashley Merryman.

No behavioral game has gained more publicity in the last year than Dr. Walter Mischel’s “marshmallow test,” an assessment of children’s impulse control. Four-year-olds are put at a table in a blank room, with a marshmallow in front of them. They’re told that if they can wait until the experimenter comes back, they’ll get two marshmallows to eat. Writing about this in The New Yorker last spring, Jonah Lehrer reported that preschoolers who waited the full 15 minutes grew into teens with SAT scores that were, on average, 215 points higher than the tots who ate the marshmallow in the first 30 seconds.

.." Is the Marshmallow Task as accurate (or better) than any other test, and thus the answer to early testing?

Sorry, but no.

First, it’s the easiest test in the world to fool. Parents can just promise their kid a pony if they don’t eat any marshmallows or cookies during the evaluation session. Second, reportage of the marshmallow study has obfuscated just how few kids were included in Mischel’s analysis. While 550 kids participated in the experiment, Mischel only tracked down SAT scores for 94 kids. The vast majority of those kids did not participate in the original, classic marshmallow task. Instead, their marshmallow was covered from view, or they were given a pretend scenario to distract themselves with. In these other conditions, if a kid could hold out for 15 minutes, it meant their SAT scores were much lower, not higher. The correlation was negative.

It was actually only 35 kids who did the classic test—17 boys and 18 girls. How long they waited was a lot worse predictor for the boys than the girls. And while about a third waited the full 15 minutes, it was only a handful of kids who ate the marshmallow in less than 30 seconds.


There is so much lately of one-trick ponies in education. In our district they go from one simplistic method to another, not realizing that there is no one right answer to education. Basing a whole school on the delayed gratification theory of success is one of them.

Gimmicks do not solve the problems of education.

The best and deepest learning occurs when there is optimum communication and respect between teacher and student.

The new rush to make it all about one major test which overrides daily grades and teacher-made tests...is stupifying.

The new assumption that turning schools into charters or contract schools will solve everything is ludicrous.

The Marshmallow test, and other such tests, have a place in learning. But to base the philosophy of a whole school on it is just plain wrong.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Don't forget, this is the kind of educational facility that the Obama administration wants
Privatized, with little accountability, free to do whatever strange shit they want, but above all, realizing a profit.

Learning, education comes in a distant second.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh! THAT'S just dandy!!! : - (((((((((((((((((((((((((
We have internalized the oppressor and he IS us. ;(

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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Then there's the third option...
I take your marshmallow and eat it, then lock you out of the room so you can't rat me out. I wind up with three marshmallows; you wind up with nothing.

Children observed taking this approach tend to gravitate to politics or senior management in multinational corporations in their later years.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. KIPP. That says it all for me. nt
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. And there are STILL people out there..SMART people, who think Obama and Duncan and charter schools
are ok!!!!!!

I do not get it...
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. seriously
This ridiculous privatization model being imposed on public schools prides itself on being data driven...where is the data showing that this educational philosophy works?

There isn't any, in fact what has been studied, i.e. the CPS, shows nothing but FAILURE.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. Maybe some kids are smart enough to know that the marshmallow will get stale after 15 minutes?
:evilgrin:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. heh heh...or smart enough to know they are being manipulated
:-)
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. This isn't education
it's conformity training. Is there a test for this? How does it align to state curriculum standards?

Snark aside, this kind of learning or earning should be the parents' role.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. Whoa.


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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. Two conflicting models of capitalism are at work here.
Delayed versus instant gratification.

Neoliberalism is all about hyper-consumption, it will win out in the end...that is what this school is trying to confront, but I agree it seems like an incredible shallow and dubious gimmick to base a curriculum around.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. earn a locker?
what, they have to carry around all their books if they don't "deserve" a locker? shitheads.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Hey, if you don't have a locker..
The mean kids won't be able to jam you into your locker and shut the door on you...

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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. True...
the mean kids will probably just stuff you in a trash can instead (little bastards :) )
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. That reminds me of The Neverending Story..
My daughter really loved that movie when she was growing up, she must have watched fifty times or more..
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. Of course, in the real world, after 14m55s, people are informed we're in a Marshmallow Crisis
and "sacrifices must be made".
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. Marshmallow Austerity Program leaves school children owing one marshmallow to school
They not only get no treat, but they have to bring in one tomorrow.
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Blue State Blues Donating Member (575 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
17. testing, marshmallow or otherwise, is not teaching
Choice and competition are for consumers, but education is not a product. Citizens have a voice in public education, but with the new private charters, consumers can only have a choice ... purchase defective product A or perhaps somewhat less defective product B. No wonder the venture philanthropists prefer consumers to citizens.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. All this testing is narrowing the scope of learning...
It is really very scary to think of the drilling on just certain things that might be on the test.

It is not learning, and it is not teaching.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
19. Taxpayer money is paying for these experimental schools.
And the resources are being depleted for public schools. Happening fast, little time to fight back.
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
20. wouldn't hurt to visit one before criticizing
they do an impressive job from what I have seen.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yes, they do have impressive test scores. I criticize a philosophy.
These schools and other experimental schools are getting taxpayer money and depriving public schools of needed resources.

And I will continue to do speak out. There is a need for discipline in schools, but there is a need to have broad based learning and skills, not just rigidity.

Some of the the methods used by KIPP would not be tolerated if public school teachers used them.

And some of the NY KIPP schools that are taking over the public school buildings actually are insulting to the public school students.

Shared buildings but not voluntarily.

"There are several important reasons why charter schools not only harm public school children, but are a direct threat to public education as we know it. The harm is not ideological in nature, it is direct. I just attended the expansion hearing of KIPP into PS 195 in Harlen this Monday - and it is heartbreaking to hear that PS 195 students have class in the cafeteria. The teacher must ask the other students who are having lunch to quiet down, so instruction can happen. And if this isn't unbelievable enough, KIPP is expanding from its current grades of 5-8, to K-8.

More than a few PS 195 teachers got up to demand that KIPP teachers stop threatening charter school students with the admonishment,"Do you want to be like them?" The lesson hammered into these children every single day in that partitioned environment is one of segregation. The public school students are made to feel less, and the charter school children learn that personal advantage gained by harm to others is not only an entitlement of their talent, but a necessity."

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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
36. Actually, they don't have
such impressive test scores, even the best of them, especially when they are held to standardized test protocols, are not permitted to cherry pick, do not commit fraud and their students attend normal 5 day/7.5 hour daily school weeks. Anyone who would send a kid to some of these uniformed kiddie boot camps for 6 day/50+ hour weeks should be charged with child abuse.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. AND.,..I also wonder about the depth of learning taking place.
When a school is based on testing, which is the new education policy....there is a narrowing of the curriculum to just the test.

So good test scores don't impress me as much as the daily, weekly grades and teacher made tests from before.

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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Which is why I said visit one, not review their test scores
Have you been to one, or just visited it. Our public schools, especially in the urban centers, are a disaster. If KIPP is using a classroom, why is this their fault. Also, it seems illogical that they would point to children learning in a cafeteria and say "do you want to be like them". Meaning what - children who learn in a cafeteria ?? If I had to speculate, the kids were ill behaved or poorly supervised.


Again, I suggest you visit one before condemning them all.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Privately run schools are pushing public schools out of their buildings..
If you think that is okay, then I don't even know how to debate with you.

If you think public money should go to privately run schools, that is your right. For now, I will just say good bye...too easy to get in trouble here now.
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Good argument - I'm right, you're wrong, goodbye.
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
48. You have no idea to whom you are speaking, do you?
Do yourself a favor and read madfloridian's contributions to this forum on education.
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. Sorry I have failed to pay proper homage
I just asked a simple question and am still waiting for a response.

Frankly, I'm just not interested, anyway.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
44. Wow
Just wow.

When those cafeteria educated kids fail, be sure and come back here and tell us their school sucked.
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. What impresses you?
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Quite a bit
Enthusiasm from teachers and students, interaction of students, focus on learning, focus on discipline, the obvious results in areas long abandoned. Any specific area.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. 100% talking points, 0% substance. -nt
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. No talking points
Read the thread, I went there to experience it myself. Seems like everyone else here in opposition has failed to actually go to a KIPP school themselves.
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. That's all good.
Unfortunately, none of it is quantifiable i.e the measures charters use to claim their superiority over traditional public schools.
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Ok - looks like they win on the quantifiable stuff as well
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. Show me.
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #32
50. Get back to us with quantitative results over a period of a decade.
Then we'll talk. In the meantime, stop stealing MY CHILD'S money from their public school to fund private schools!!
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. Maybe we can have the same colossal failures
As the current system. Is that what you mean ?
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. The joyful right-wingness of it, obviously. -nt
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Don't let direct observation get in the way of your media fed emotions
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Do you mean the... gasp... LIBERAL MEDIA?
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. No, I don't
I was accused of talking point, whichni take as data fed to me by others when my perceptions are based on actual experience. My point was to illustrate that my opinion is based on personal observation as opposed to simply relying on media reports, media as defined by Webster.

Chill out.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Maybe something with a high carb content and cheese will help me chill out. -nt
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. At this point, it couldn't hurt.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. I just ordered it, in fact.
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. By the way, your observation was based upon anecdotal experience.
What was it, one day in a classroom.

Forgive me while I laugh my ass off at your 'proof.'
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Where did I offer this as proof
This started with a simple question - have you ever seen one or do you simply believe everything you read. If you do, I have 10,000 barrels of oil a day, I mean 20,000 - did I say 20, I meant 40 - wait, looks more like 100,000 ...........
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #40
61. here's my direct observation: a vast majority of americans were educated in the public system
Edited on Sat Jun-19-10 04:15 PM by noiretextatique
i know most people in my age group (51) and older were.i am sure most american still are. here in california, prop 13 drastically affected school funding, and my state devolved from the top of the educational food chain to near the bottom. there's nothing mysterious about why the public education system is failing, after many, many years of successfully educating the vast majority of americans. the conservative plan of defunding, mass hysteria and pushing private education is working.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
42. I have.
Wasn't impressed.
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Thanks for asking the only question I raised
We've apparently had different experiences.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
58. With all due respect I think it's a silly request
Edited on Sat Jun-19-10 02:12 PM by proud2BlibKansan
I'm a teacher so yes, I've been inside lots of schools. But to expect most people to actually visit and not form an opinion unless they have is silly. It's easy to look up data and form an opinion on a school without ever actually walking its halls.

On edit - it's also easy for a school to put on a dog and pony show for visitors. Even the crappiest schools can do that. :shrug:
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. So, as a teacher, I'm sure you analyzed both sides
Before labeling my request.

There was a rant against the KIPP, imasked ifmthe ranter visited before drawing the final conclusion and I never got an answer. Now you label my request as silly, specifically, it is sillymto ask someone to examine an issue with their own eyes before forming a final opinion ? Are you sticking with your assessment that it is silly ?

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. As I stated, a visit is not going to tell you all you need to know.
If I was a parent wanting to enroll my child, yes, a visit is critical. But if I am just a concerned citizen wanting to know if the school is successful, a visit is not the way to answer that question.
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. So my question wasn't silly ?
Still looking for your direct response.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Direct response to what?
You asked if anyone had actually visited a charter school. I repiled that I had. I also tried to tell you that anyone can put on a dog and pony show. You can find happy kids and good teachers in any school. If you want to know how well a school works, you need to look at data and you can do that without visiting. This is the electronic age. Anything you need to know is on the internet.

And FYI, I worked in a charter so I got inside knowledge of how well it really worked. And I wasn't impressed. Does that mean all charters are bad? No but I can look up data on the ones in my area and see how well they work. I also have had quite a few students who transferred from a charter and I can compare their progress to my students who have been in traditional public schools all along. Again, not impressed.
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Direct response to my question
You said my original question was silly, I responded and asked if you still stood by the premise that my suggesting you visit a school is silly. You answered some other question.

So once again, is it silly to suggest you visit a school before criticizing it ?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. I will repeat my answer
It is unnecessary to visit before you make a judgement.
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stuart68 Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. So, to be clear
A teacher feels it is silly to expect someone to visit a program before criticizing it. Good call.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
24. Can I stick a pencil through the marshmallow?
Can I throw it? Can I mash it flat like a pancake? Can I tear it up into little bits? Can I light it on fire?

How long do I have to sit here?

No! NO! NO! :grr:

Ignores marshmallow, fidgets, crawls under desk, gets up, tries to escape...

Poopy NASTY Marshmallow!!!!

I've been around half a century and I've never had a positive marshmallow testing experience. I don't like marshmallows.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. lol
That's funny. I don't like them much either. :hi:
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jp11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
25. I think they need some signs.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
27. Joe Negron is a teabagger, correct?
This "a locker is a privilege you must earn" sounds like something a teabagger would do.
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cleverusername Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
30. Could backfire
I've seen this approach backfire with some kids, especially when the rewards are material things instead of time and attention. The most effective method is modeling desired behavior. It's not what you say to kids, it's what you show them.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
41. OMG
That shit went out the not working window before I even started teaching. In 1980!
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #41
52. Didn 't you get the memo...
everything old is new again! Experience it for one day in the classroom yourself, and you too will be considered an internet expert in edumacation!
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