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No, tutoring or TAing is not the same as being a teacher.

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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 06:25 PM
Original message
No, tutoring or TAing is not the same as being a teacher.
Ed and his guest (not sure who it was - I was listening, not watching) said that Mark Kirk claimed he had been a teacher. That experience included a part time work study stint as a nursery school "teacher" while in college (I'd call that an aide) and as a middle school teacher in London for one year. The talking heads were debating whether this was enough experience to call oneself a teacher.

The NY Times did a little research on this:

"Kirsten Kukowski, a spokeswoman for the Kirk campaign, said that his work in the nursery at a United Methodist ministry called Forest Home Chapel in Ithaca, N.Y., took place in his final year of college in 1981. The campaign did not provide verification, and it could not be independently confirmed. A longtime member of the church who had a son in the nursery around the same time said she did not recall any male teachers.

“Like many Americans, Mark Kirk worked during college to help pay for school,” Ms. Kukowski said. “One of his jobs was a nursery school teacher with the responsibilities one would expect.”

Ms. Kukowski said that the congressman’s full-time experience as a teacher came after he received a master’s degree at the London School of Economics during the 1982-83 school year at Milestone College, a private college preparatory school in London, where he taught European history and English. The school, in the Kensington neighborhood, closed in 1993, according to the Department of Educational Services in Britain.

In a speech on the House floor on Sept. 19, 2006, as he talked about school safety, Mr. Kirk spoke about “the kids who were the brightest lights of our country’s future, and I also remember those who bore scrutiny as people who might bring a gun to class.”

Mr. Kirk declined an interview on Wednesday to talk about his time as a teacher. His spokeswoman said the congressman was referring to nursery school students in Ithaca, not his students in London, during that speech on the House floor in 2006."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/17/us/politics/17kirk.html

How can one tell if a nursery school student is a bright light or one who might bring a gun to class? One might have a glimmer of insight about this with middle school students, but a nursery school kid? This seems very far fetched to me.

Back to the conversation on the Ed show:

One person argued that "if you've been in front of students, even if as a TA or tutor, you've been a teacher." Sorry, not true. This attitude betrays a lack of understanding of what teachers do. What people often remember is a "stand up lesson" with the teacher lecturing, students taking notes, followed perhaps by some sort of activity or homework assignment. There's a lot more to teaching than delivering a lesson.

An analogy to a well-taught lesson is that of an actor in a movie. Good actors make it look easy and a less informed person might think that the movie was made in the same sequence as shown on the screen and that the actor just spewed out the lines. But we all know it's far more complex than that - there are hours of rehearsals, script memorizing, wardrobe fittings, etc. that we as viewers do not see. Same deal with teaching - there are hours of preparation, administration, etc. that are part of the job.

Does a tutor or TA:

Know which state standards and objectives were being addressed in that unit?
Determine the sequence of lessons in that "unit" or topic of study?
Have reponsibility for developing the lesson plan?
Make appropriate modifications for sped or ESL students?
Gather the necessary supplies, equiment, and supplemental materials?
Deliver a lesson or instruction?
Grade the homework associated with the lesson?
Develop the assessment for that unit?
Monitor and adjust the lesson in response to student understanding or unforeseen events?
Conduct the administrative tasks required that day?
Communicate with parents about a child's progress, behavior, or attendance?
Attend any meetings regarding students or for the education community?
Respond to requests for information or assistance for another teacher?

It seems that everyone who's been in school thinks he or she knows all there is to know about teaching. Everybody's an expert. Please.

Rant off.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. This Fella, Ma'am, Lies When the Truth Would Do
He probably cannot even tell himself anymore what the actual events of his life were; all he has is is fantasy life of MARK KIRK, mighty hunter, warrior, lover.....
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. a middle school teacher is a real teacher
Edited on Thu Jun-17-10 06:32 PM by pitohui
a TA who is teaching college students is, yah, like it or not, a real teacher

a tutor is a kind of teacher, maybe not well-qualified, maybe not properly certified, but yah it's teaching if you do it right

as a tutor i brought at least 3 college kids from failing their class to getting B's, so i think i taught them SOMETHING

as a TA i was teaching pre-meds -- the kids who will one day be your doctor -- the pay was shit but apparently i was good enough to teach the kids who will one day be your doctor

i have to agree that if you've taught someone something for pay, you've been a teacher, if you don't like it, i really don't care, i'm sorry you're that defensive about what you do

what's next, if i waited tables at the diner, i wasn't REALLY a waiter? i'm only REALLY a waiter if it was at delmonico's????

get over yrself, you won't build yourself up by tearing other people down -- i do not know or care who mark kirk is but if your best argument is that middle school teaching is not teaching, or that teaching nursery school is not teaching, then your argument gets the FAIL
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. A teacher plans instruction, writes curriculum, aligns curriculum,
writes and scores assessments, and many other tasks that tutors or TAs do not do.

Expecting honesty is not tearing anyone down.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Makes sense and nurse-practitioner or physician assistant are not the same as MDs. Conclusion, our
plea for health care reform should include restrictions that only allow MDs to treat those who are ill.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. NPs and PAs don't call themselves doctors.
They are vital to the medical profession as tutors and TAs are to education.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I concede, NPs & PAs are invaluable to medicine just as TAs are invaluable to education. n/t
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cyr330 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. NP's & PA's
Edited on Thu Jun-17-10 06:36 PM by cyr330
Nurse Practitioners and Physicians' Assistants are highly trained professionals. NP's are capable of managing complex medical care in tertiary settings such as transplant and trauma Intensive Care Units as are physicians assistants. In fact, PA's are capable of harvesting grafts during surgery for heart bypass and other delicate procedures.

No, they are not physicians, but they are not supposed to be. Their scope and their practice are NOT the same as physicians, but they are VERY capable of managing basically the same (or definitely MORE) than any family practitioner.

If you want to disparage NP's and PA's, please review what you are saying for accuracy before making ignorant comments.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I concede, NPs & PAs are invaluable to medicine just as TAs are invaluable to education. n/t
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cyr330 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Not Quite
NP's & PA's are professionals in their own right. TA's are on the path to a professional career, whereas NP's & PA's are already there. . .
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. So TA's aren't professionals! I won't touch that third rail with the best insulation in the world.
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burnsei sensei Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. Doctoral candidate here.
Was a TA for four years.
Usually, that is how a professor's career begins.

Does a tutor or TA:

Know which state standards and objectives were being addressed in that unit?
TAs must know the course and unit objectives to write their own lesson plans.

Determine the sequence of lessons in that "unit" or topic of study?
No, the lecturer does that.

Have reponsibility for developing the lesson plan?
For the recitations? Yes.

Make appropriate modifications for sped or ESL students?
Yes. I did so several times.

Gather the necessary supplies, equiment, and supplemental materials?
Yes.

Deliver a lesson or instruction?
Yes. Twice a week.

Grade the homework associated with the lesson?
Yes. And computed the final grades.

Develop the assessment for that unit?
Some of them.

Monitor and adjust the lesson in response to student understanding or unforeseen events?
Yes.

Conduct the administrative tasks required that day?
Some of them.

Communicate with parents about a child's progress, behavior, or attendance?
In the university? No.

Attend any meetings regarding students or for the education community?
Yes. Every week.

Respond to requests for information or assistance for another teacher?
Yes.

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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. Everybody who spouts off about teachers like that
should be forced to take the Praxis III at a Title I school with a 40% IEP rate. No prep.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. LSE is a hell of a school. . .
but a place that closed in 93? after all the other lies he has spread?

Heh, that dirtbag has a lot of problems with the truth.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Funny that nothing can be verified.
How convenient.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. k&r
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. While you're at it, owning a dog is not the same thing as being a parent.
Just sayin'. :hide:
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R. Thanks for the "lesson"
Good analogy, great lesson. Well done! :thumbsup:

:kick:
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