On parrots and food and pet food

[nadinbrzezinski]

well folks all the scandals with the pet food reminded me of one thing, the scam that the pet food providers perpetrate on the American pet owner

Any of you have Parrots, aka conures, african gray, even budgies?

I'm sure most of you are feeding your kids seeds.

Well long story short, we were feeding our nanday seeds mostly because we had tried changing his diet for years...

So one day I take him into the shower to clean up his feathers, and his tail feathers literally fell apart in my hand.

So we take bird to the vet... yep they did the usual teats, but the bird's problem... them seeds. He was malnourished and I knew this because we had been trying to change that diet for years.

I took the bird home and took his seed to the trash. I told him, after filling his dish with a cereal that made up a complete protein, "well you can eat or you can starve."

So the bird avoided eating any of this new food for a day or two... and finally decided that eating that icky food was better than starving.

Funny thing, these days he eats just about anything I put in his dish and has developed a taste for red meat (grubs ain't tofu folks)

But this is a cautionary tale... outside of chocolate and avocado (and coffee,) your birds should eat just about a well balanced died like the one you eat.

Be for warned, they can be stubborn, but every time I go get him a block of wood at the pet sore, they try to sell this junk... which I politely turn down

Now if he needed the calories since he was sick... I'd consider it... but otherwise they are empty calories

Oh and the point of this. think of your dog and your cat. They have lived among humans for oh thousands of years... you think them dogs and cats ate Purina every day for all these years. Nope... table scraps were fine, or pieces of meat from the hunt. The pet industry has created an artificial need, and one that quite brutally honest, we don't need...

Oh and yes they do get their treats, tonight the kids got shaved almonds, they just love them.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. My little girl...

Had spaghetti with red clam sauce(lotsa garlic) tonight. If you think that's something, you should see her with Lamb Vindaloo. First time she had it, she took a taste, looked at me with a very...analytical look in her eye, and then proceeded to slam her beak against the dish, making a very loud noize, to get back to eating the Vindaloo and rice.

There is very little she doesn't eat.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. By the way, for the "dry food" that they have in their dish

at all times, I feed them organic Ezekiel cereal.

It looks like seeds, Cookie likes that, and it is a full protein

But lunch time, oh boy... they get whatever I cooked for lunch (we have a big lunch instead of dinner due to Tom's work schedule), and they absolutely love hot cakes. They get their first, before I make ours... I just say the words and two of three birds rush out to the kitchen to wait for theirs, and our reclusive Nanday at times waits by the door of his room, hey human is it ready yet?

Oh and they love milk... don't ask, but they love it

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Well, as per milk and cheese:

As I understand it, it is rough on their digestive systems, because they don't have the intestinal flora to effectively deal with the lactose. Also, cheese is made with bacteria, and that *could* be a problem. But my little girl is a HUGE fan of pancakes. Oh geez, she would kill, maim and destroy for pancakes. That said, there is a huge range of things she likes. Baked beans she adores. Chicken, fish, any meat, Kielbasa, Andouille...oh, and eggs. In any form, and with some shell in there too. And if they come with corned beef hash, that's just grand.

Goddamn little cannibal she is. ;-)

Chocolate should be considered poison for them and alcohol is just plain stupid.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Add avocado to the poisin list

we asked the vet regarding milk when I took them for their physical

he said, all in moderation... especially since they like it... adn cheese, tehy like it especially in Mac and Cheese, which kills the bacteria

We know when they do overdo it... diarrhea, otherwise our sun especially could do the Commercials for Milk it does a birdie good.

And yes, the kids over here, they hear the word PANCAKE... and they rush. LOrd help me if I tried to make ours first, I fear I would have two birds extremely annoyed

By the way, the vet is impressed our 'Tiel is only 19 yaers young, half way to 20 our senior citizen and he is healthy as an ox.

Teh Nanday is 15 so he is what middle age?

The sun is our little child, only 6

[hunter]

8. Ours like Soy Milk. They watch for it.

They like milk too, but I've always heard it's not good for them.

Parrots do want to be hawks. They love to eat chicken.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

10. Yeah...

Hawks that are love sponges. ;-)

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Oh and just checked on life expectancy

now I know why the vet is impressed

Tiels 15-20 years, though some have been known to go all the way to 30+

The Nanday is close to middle age

and the sun is truly the child in the flock

Kids will be around for a while...

[TygrBright]

6. A question, please, bird fanciers?

I have been attracted to the idea of a bird pal but a little put off by the experience of a friend of ours whose wife keeps two, an African gray and a big green one, don't know the kind.

They SCREAM. A LOT.

They get tons of attention and social contact, they are incredibly spoiled, and ruggedly healthy. They're quite good with the kids, although will inadvertently scratch from time to time even though our friend clips their claws pretty regularly. They make a whole range of fun noises from the telephone to bits of dialog from "Casablanca." (The gray says "Here's looking at you, kid!")

But on a pretty frequent basis (although there doesn't seem to be a reliable pattern related times of day, what's going on around them, etc.,) they just SCREAM. One will start, the other will join in, and it's like they're having a shrieking contest. It's an appalling noise.

Do all birds do that? Are there just some kinds that do it? What kinds don't? Is there a way to prevent them doing it, or to make them stop?

Sometimes they start it in the middle of the night, and it wakes the whole household!

warily,
Bright

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Birds are very social and will communicate with each

other, and there is a pattern. It is just that you are not attuned to them... don't worry it takes a while to see the pattern

During spring they get worst, hormones, our wonderful Jeckills become Mr. hyde... and they get really noisy...

Also my birds will let me know if they need food or water by being rather vocal.

My Nanday is particularly good about that. He screams like bloody murder, you ask him what he wants and he will show you, by placing talon nn food or water dish. He also asks to be covered the same way and you can actually detect a difference in the screech. In the morning he asks to be uncovered... thankfully dailight savings means nine in the morning... and nandays are particular sccreechie

Now there are species that are easier to handle and far more quiet

Cockatiels come to mind

But all birds are like small children and they need quite a bit of socialization... or they will scream ouit of boredom

Ours also have the radio on when we are not at home

I'd also recomend a tiel for another reason, they have the personality of bigger birds, but they are far easier to handle... and if you've never owned a bird, they are good ahem "starter birds."

Also remember, rule of thumb, the larger the bird the longer they live... and some species, (cockatoos and African Grays come to mind) can live all the way to their seventies... one cockatoo at the Zoo, he died they think at 102.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. And, when they scream...

They get attention. They are great at training humans. ;-)

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. They are not the pets

we are

:-)

[pepperbear]

12. ok, this is NOT the link I clicked on. n/t

[jeff30997]

13. WTF?

Same thing for me!

[demobabe]

16. I reposted my topic

see link in #15.

[demobabe]

15. I reposted my topic

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x862287

somehow it got linked to this thread with all the database problems going on.

[Tesha]

14. Our Sun Conure...

Conures are known for being loud. But our Sun Conure
normally doesn't scream unless she sees something that
she deems to be threatening. Things that apparently
make her think "snake" (like the vacuum cleaner).
The occasional bee at the window. Etc....

Some threats, though, like hawks circling outside
her window, provoke her to be very, very quiet. ;)

She does live up to her species' reputation,
routinely giving her very robust "Chirp-Chirp!"
call any time a member of her flock (that's Mr.
Tesha and me) is missing or out of sight.

So far, she hasn't ever cranked up in the middle
of the night, but she sleeps in her own room
nicely covered up.

Two things that took us completely by surprise
when we joined her flock:

o She's very physically affectionate. She really
really wants to be in the middle of any hugging
or kissing that's going on. She climbs right in
and makes appropriate "kissy" noises. She also
loves to be rubbed.

o She loves to play rough, especially right
before her bedtime. Hang her upside down by
one foot, hang her by her beak, roll her over
on her back, she loves it all. And she'll
yell at you if you stop while she still wants
to go.

Another thing you need to be ready for is that
parrots are *BIG TIME CHEWERS*. Ours seems to
like our clothing best of all, much preferring
that to all of her fancy wooden chew toys. So
we have distinct sets of "parrot-modified"
clothing that we wear around her.

Parrots need a lot of your attention, at least
several hours a day, and a well-cared for parrot
will live for many years (with some species
like African Greys and Macaws likely to outlive
you), so be sure you're ready to make that
commitment before you get one. But they're
very rewarding little pets.

Tesha

[TygrBright]

17. Thanks! Much good information here.

It will probably be a while before we make up our minds, since there seems to be a lot to know about birds and I tend to be 'information obsessive,' as my esposo calls it. I'm especially grateful for the reminder about lifespan, and that would be a major consideration. While hopefully it wouldn't be for a good many decades, yet, I'd simply HATE to have to think about arranging a good future for a bird who was outliving me.

The thought of leaving a critter who depended on me stranded and possibly abused just chills my teeth.

OTOH, perhaps there is some kind of rescue service for older birds who have outlived a first or second companion? Maybe that would work for us. Do they get mellower with age, like dogs and cats?

curiously,
Bright

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Depends

our Cocktail is very mellow and good with kids

Our Nanday... he is mellow, but does not like to play with people (he was wild caught, I recommend a hand raised bird).

Our sunny, yep, she likes to chew on clothes... boy you'd be amazed at that one... she is also affectionate but she is also quite jealous

We got her in Hawaii, and she was an "only bird" for three years, when we got back to San Diego she found out she had two brothers.

Though she tolerates them now, and I mean tolerates in the full intent of the word, so we haven't had any major birdie fights

As to noise

Both the Naday and the sun go off in the morning when they want out... and the nanday at night when he wants to be covered or when he wants SOMEMTHING... and don't worry bird will train you to recognize the different kinds of screeches... regarding their needs

As to age... well our Sun is the last bird we will ever get, otherwise we would be outlived.... she is going to be quite a border line in that sense, since we are in our forties and the bird is six years, they live for oh thirty to forty.

Oh and personalities, they have three different personalities.

[Tesha]

19. More...

> While hopefully it wouldn't be for a good many decades, yet,
> I'd simply HATE to have to think about arranging a good future
> for a bird who was outliving me.

This is a big part of the reason that we ended up with a
conure rather than, say, an African Grey. Our counure's
lifespan should more-or-less approximate our remaining
time, but there's no doubt that we would have needed to
make provisions for a 'Grey.


> OTOH, perhaps there is some kind of rescue service for
> older birds who have outlived a first or second companion?

In our town, there's a bird rescue agency; they always
have "used birds" available for adoption and they take
birds who have been orphaned. But used birds are like
any mature animal or person; they have certain behavior
patterns in which they're quite set and not much
interested in changing and these behaviors might suit
you or not. We adopted our conure (privately, not through
the rescue agency) when her previous folks had a baby and
the conure, in reaction to the increased noise but diminished
attention to her, began picking feathers. So far (a year
later), she's still picking, although she's happier in
most other ways.

Tesha

[LisaL]

20. I feed mine special diet for parrots.

I have always knew that seeds might not be the best food for them-it's fattening.
And what do you mean you feed your bird cereal? Human cereal? Why? There are many companies that make complete diets for the birds (The food is in the form of pellets). As I understand it, it is also very dangerous to adopt "you can eat or you can starve" attitude when it comes to your bird. Birds have high metabolism so yea, they can starve in a short time if they don't eat.
But rest assured, there are many questions and concerns as to what should be or shouldn't be in their special diet.
Nothing is simple.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Why not human cereal

the bird pellets is akin to feeding dog food.

Here is the analogy... I can sell you a pound of bird food, dog food, what have you for ten bucks... but there is no way in hell I'll be able to sell you a pound of frozen vegies for ten dollars, just becuase it is bird special, now is there? (That is part of their diet by the way)

And the attitude we took, the bird was going to die from malnutrition if we kept him on that bird seed diet, which is all he'd have... he would not try anything else

We tried to be gentler before... as in mix it half and half, he'd have none of the good for him food, pellets, cereal did not matter

These days he eats a complete diet, his feathers shine, and he has energy. (And he screams, he was to the point that we had a very quiet Nanday and anybody who knows a thing or two about Nadays realies how weird that is)

But truly if he chose not to eat, he would have died anyway, and after talking to our vet when I took him he also said the choices were grim and nobody felt like force feeding the bird. In the past they gvae him vitamin shots, but we all knew those were bridging options

So we did the least harm and hoped for the best.

These days he begs for different things... and now tries just about anything we put in his food dish. This is a heck of a change and ss I type he is by my side playing with his wooden block. It was not easy to watch, but within two hours of seeds out... he started playing with the cereal, within three he was eating... and the cereal I bought for him, which I eat from time to time, ain't bad, looks like seeds, but gives him a complete protein... we noticed the changes (due to the fast metabolism) within a day... and he did as well... he made the connection and slowly started eating OTHER stuff he'd never try before.

Birds, we don't give enough credit, are very intelligent beingss. We treat ours like full members of the family... and with the respect a sentient being deserves... and we have been rewarded by seeing behaviour that astounds us. (for the level of sophisitication in problem solving)