NOW THAT was GREAT !

[Mira]

The gates are down, I hear the bells, and yes, there is a train coming

:)

G O B A M A

I'm very happy action is following the promise. And I very much like his tone and his understanding expressed today.
I also like that he told us he conveyed that tone to the culprits.

[seabeyond]

1. ? nt

[emulatorloo]

8. BP fund. n/t

[seabeyond]

12. thanks. nt

[Mira]

10. Sorry! I was so happy about this,

I did not properly complete it.

[seabeyond]

11. lol, been there, done that. i see it is a bp fund. and obama talking. nt

[Laelth]

2. He's a good lawyer, and he has negotiated some good terms. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Jeffersons Ghost]

5. it restores some faith in him, from my perspective

[Laelth]

14. You missed my point.

He's the President. He doesn't have to negotiate with anyone, but he does, anyway. That is a mistake.

Heads need to roll for this. He's not chopping off any. He's working with BP rather than taking a position against them. That is a mistake.

It's not all about the money. Money won't fix this mess, yet that's all he seems to care about. As I said above, heads need to roll. I don't care whether imprisoning people will bring back the wildlife or not. People need to be put on notice that this kind of criminal behavior will not be tolerated and will lead to serious punishment. That's how we prevent a similar disaster from happening in the future. But he's not doing that, and it appears that he won't, because he's a lawyer and a negotiator, not a fighter. That is a mistake.

I am glad he got their "promise" to put aside some money to pay for the damage they have done, but that's not nearly enough. Not by a long shot.

:dem:

-Laelth

[bobburgster]

18. Totally disagree with....

He's the President. He doesn't have to negotiate with anyone, but he does, anyway. That is a mistake.

Heads need to roll for this. He's not chopping off any. He's working with BP rather than taking a position against them. That is a mistake.



That mindset sounds more like Cheney/Bush to me.

[Laelth]

20. You may not have noticed, but Bush/Cheney were very effective.

Evil, but effective. I would like to see Obama be an effective force for good in the world. There's nothing inherently "evil" about being a fighter instead of a negotiator.

"They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred. I should like to have it said of my first Administration that in it the forces of selfishness and of lust for power met their match. I should like to have it said of my second Administration that in it these forces met their master." FDR, 1936.

Will Obama ever say such a thing? If not, he will not be remembered as a great President. I think we need a fighter right now.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Beetwasher]

22. They Were Effective Because They Were Criminals

Yes, I can effectively make money if I clobber old ladies in the head and steal their purse.

You want a dictator, not a President.

[Laelth]

27. FDR was not exactly a dictator, but he was pretty close.

Yes. I suppose that is what I want, an FDR-like liberal dictator who will voluntarily give up power after eight years. I wouldn't mind that.

For the time being, however, I'd like Obama to just do his best FDR impression so that he doesn't look so weak. I want him to succeed, not fail, and I firmly believe that he would do better if he were to adopt a more combative stance towards those who have befouled the Gulf.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Beetwasher]

29. Well, That's Pretty Pathetic To Want A Dictator, But At Least You're Honest About It

n/t

[Laelth]

32. I am sorry to hear that you hate FDR. I think he was a great President. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Beetwasher]

33. I'm Sorry You Hate Democracy, But That's Your Problem

n/t

[defendandprotect]

46. FDR didn't do much that wasn't supported by the masses, over and again -- the public...

And if his presidency was a dictatorship over corporations -- I'm all for it!!

Wish we had another FDR!!

[Laelth]

47. That was my point, yes. You said it more clearly. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[bobburgster]

37. I understand your point.

I believe you can fight, and get what you want in a low key manner. You do not need to go the chest-beating neanderthal route to achieve success.

[Laelth]

40. Of course, you are right. But right now the American people want a fighter.

This isn't a question of how to get things done. It's a question of how to give the American people what they want.

Obama makes us all look weak when he negotiates with BP, just like he did when he negotiated a deal with the insurance companies to pass health insurance company enrichment. He's the President of the United States, for goodness sake. He doesn't have to negotiate with BP. He only has to negotiate with other nations, and usually, only those that possess nuclear weapons. Otherwise, I expect him to set the terms, take charge, and act like he actually has the power we have given him.

Instead, he negotiates, and we're supposed to be happy that BP and the administration have reached an "agreement." Such an agreement demeans this nation.

:dem:

-Laelth

[bobburgster]

44. But...

"Instead, he negotiates, and we're supposed to be happy that BP and the administration have reached an "agreement." Such an agreement demeans this nation"


you don't know what went on in the negotiations, how he spoke, etc.

The end result was pretty impressive though, don't you think.

[Laelth]

45. Whether the end result was good depends on what he gave away to get the agreement.

It is true, though, that I don't know the facts, and if he gave away nothing, then the end result is very good and my criticism of him, here, is misplaced.

Do you think he gave away nothing? I don't. I think he agreed not to criminally prosecute BP and its employees, and that's the last thing he needs to do now. Heads need to roll. Would be environmental terrorists need to know that they will face serious consequences if they cut corners on safety in the name of profits.

:dem:

-Laelth

[bobburgster]

48. I don't think so....

but only time will tell. I think he threatened them with making it impossible for them to work in the U.S. if they didn't post the money.

[Jack Rabbit]

38. (Responded to wrong post)

[Jack Rabbit]

39. So were Stalin and Mao

Sorry, but the President is not a dictator and must engage in some give and take. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Bush and Cheney would have had it another way, with the results being an effective catastrophe. The United States was mistrusted by the entire world, we were left with two wars of dubious merit, the dollar was worthless, the financial system had melted down, government regulation of industry had all but been abolished, jobs were lost and what job remained paid less. The only thing that the right wing can point to with any pride is that they didn't collective farming and trigger mass starvation in the process.

[Laelth]

41. Meh. Try a little substance. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Jack Rabbit]

43. What substance would you like?

Dictators make mistakes, as do we all, but they don't have to owe up to them. They can purge the party and rewrite history instead.

The collectivization of agriculture by Stalin (the Five-Year Plan of 1929) and Mao (the Great Leap Forward of 1958) triggered mass famine. In response, the dictators suppressed historical records and purged the party of any leading member who criticized them, such as Bukharin or Liu Shaoqi, or was willing to continue to contradict the official version of events from abroad in the case of Leon Trotsky.

Bush and Cheney are still attempting to rewrite history to cover up what a monumental crime was going to war against Iraq and crimes peripheral to the war on terror, specifically the torture of detained persons. Not only that, but they are still trying to cover up the errors in judgment that was deregulation and the corruption that was the Bushies' brand of crony capitalism. The results of this malfeasance was not effective government, but the near collapse of the world economy. Bush and Cheney even managed to overuse, misuse and abuse history's most powerful military that it could neither capture Osama bin Laden nor pacify Iraq. Excuse me, but you seem to have a curious idea of the quality effective.

Furthermore, I challenge your characterization of FDR as a dictator. By 1936, when Roosevelt was re-elected and the Democratic Party enjoyed its fourth consecutive winning congressional election cycle, the country may have seemed headed to at least a brief period of one-party rule, but Roosevelt was never so all-powerful as Stalin or Mao nor did he ever assert fabulous executive powers as did Bush and Cheney. Roosevelt could only get his program passed Congress by compromising with members of his own broad-based party, and then had to dismantle a key part of it after the Supreme Court ruled the National Recovery Act unconstitutional. After beginning his second term in 1937, FDR proposed packing the Supreme Court, but found Congress unwilling to follow his lead. FDR was subject to checks and balances and, unlike Bush the Frat Boy, willingly observed them after pushing the envelope as far as he could.

[demwing]

35. It's not a mistake to negotiate

but its a mistake to ALWAYS negotiate

[Laelth]

42. +1 n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Mira]

24. I could not disagree with your words and attitude more vehemently.

In President Obama's remarks lies the reason: "We want this strong company to remain strong."

Implied in the no limit assignment of restitution payments, starting with 20 Billion in escrow, is that we need to not piss off people who seem to be showing us (if you listen to them in the congressional hearings) that they have an almost sociopathic lack of conscience about the people, livelihoods, and wildlife they are ruining.

It's all about their money.
It's all about the delicate balance of not cornering a rat so it will attack, and catching it anyway.
American taxpayers are the next source for that money, and we are maxed out on all fronts.

Heads ARE rolling.
OURS.
And Obama is playing triage nurse, as I see it, very ably today.

First things first.
I've said that from day one.
On April 20, when the rig blew up.
On Hitler's damn birthday.

[Laelth]

30. First understand what he did.

The $20 billion in ESCRO money is a good thing. It means that if BP files for bankruptcy, that $20 billion will theoretically be available to pay claims.

Otherwise, he accomplished absolutely nothing. Those promises he just secured are meaningless, and can not be enforced. And there's no telling what he gave away in order to get those meaningless promises. In the process, he looked weak. I disliked it when Obama negotiated with the health insurance companies, and I dislike it when he negotiates with BP. He's the President of the United States. He doesn't have to negotiate with anyone unless they have nuclear weapons. BP doesn't, and he should be ordering them around, and prosecuting them, not negotiating with them.

Right now, Obama looks very weak.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Skidmore]

7. Because he is a good lawyer, he didn't trot out an unfinished product

last night because people were clamoring for instant gratification. He waited until the deal was done. That is a leader.

[seabeyond]

13. this has been consistent with obama

it is a rational approach. remember bush. he kept jocking the same people from post to post, saying what they would do, but never a follow thru.

that didnt work so well. but made everyone feel good. good press.

obama gets the bad press... then regardless it sticks.

[aquart]

16. IOW, he doesn't get off his ass until someone says something mean.

Sorry, but it isn't a sign of genius planning to get rotten press.

[tranche]

21. I think he doesn't belive in handholding. If pundits and people wet themselves in the interim.

He doesn't give a shit.

And that's a good thing.

[seabeyond]

23. that really is not how i interpret it or how i have seen the behavior. appears to me more like

he doesnt throw out a bunch of garbage and promise for comfort sake.

seems we both see it differently. cool enough.

[Skidmore]

25. I believe there has been much going on that never makes the press

because they are too busy promoting drama. We do need to have someone who can negotiate the way through the land mines set by both sides, the media, and the special interest groups. We all share the same space, like it or not.

[Dappleganger]

34. ^^^^^^^This.

But we will find out later, won't we?

[aquart]

15. Then why didn't he give the speech tonight instead of yesterday?

Then it wouldn't have looked like an anti-climatic catch-up.

You can spin it like a top but that speech missed for everyone but the devoted acolytes.

[Skidmore]

28. Perhaps because he chose not to let people who were holding their

breath while tantrumming self-asphyxiate.

I'm certain there was a reason. Maybe the speech served a purpose in hammering through final points in negotiation. Who knows. Unless you were in the room where those decisions are made, the most you can do is second guess and attribute your own motives and rationale.

[Laelth]

17. I think the American people want a fighter right now, not a good negotiator. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Skidmore]

31. I think he is a fighter. You don't have to stand in middle of the street

and scream and menace to push forward and to win. I've known lots of people like this in life and I much prefer them to bullies and blusterers. Perhaps you would prefer Bush/Cheney. They got us all far on their particular brand of fighting.

[demwing]

36. Stop With The "Oh Maybe You Would Prefer Bush/Cheney" Shtick

It's weak, because it pretends there are only the two extremes - Bush and Obama. The Terminator and the Negotiator. White and black.

But that isn't the way reality works. There are levels of gray every step of the way. Cant we ask for an ethical, populist, progressive fighter without someone accusing us of being bastard Republicans?

[berni_mccoy]

3. Well, get out the popcorn, because there's going to be some people upset

mainly because they won't be able to spin the negative out of this.

:popcorn:

[emulatorloo]

9. Where there is a will, there is a way.

I liked that bullet point summary you put up. Looked to me like a real good "To Do" list.

One thing checked off.

On the the next one.

[Skidmore]

26. Not to worry. People upthread are spinning themselves counterclockwise

into the ground.

[dixiegrrrrl]

4. Damn.I missed it.

[CatWoman]

6. i'll bet MSNBC will have video available later

I watched via this link: http://www.tvpc.com/Channel.php?ChannelID=2453

[dixiegrrrrl]

19. Thanks. TPM will have it, I found out.

I keep forgetting I have a tv, rarely have it on.