16 year old Abby Sunderland located...

[one_voice]

Abby Sunderland went off the grid briefly as 70-mile-per-hour winds lashed her yacht. Late Thursday, an Australian spotter jet located the 16-year-old, who told them she was safe.

On Friday, her parents faced waves of criticism for allowing Abby's adventure.

Her father, Laurence, shot back, telling ABC's "Good Morning America," "How many teenagers die in car accidents every year? Should we stop them from driving cars?"

"Life is dangerous," saidLawrence Sunderland, a shipbuilder whose son, Zac, sailed the globe at age 17.

"You don't know Abigail, you don't know how long she's been out there on the ocean," he added.

Seasoned sailors say Abby Sunderland started her voyage too late in the year and she should not have been in the southern Indian Ocean during the winter storm season.

"Abby would be going through a very difficult time with mountainous seas and essentially hurricane-force winds," Ian Kiernan, a world-class sailor told Sky News.

The Southern Californian teen embarked on the round-the-world voyage Jan. 23 from Marina del Rey.

Contact with her ship, Wild Eyes, was dead for 20 hours before the plane located her. The boat's mast broke, but the rest of the vessel is intact.

French rescue boats dispatched from Madagascar are heading to the teen and should reach her Saturday.

*snip*



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/06/11/2010-06-11_abby_sunderland_16yearold_was_prepared_for_tough_voyage_parents_tell_critics.html#ixzz0qZIyGZMl

[Duer 157099]

1. Do they have insurance that pays for all rescue efforts?

I sure as hell hope so.

[Ron Green]

3. That should be paid by all the news media. It's their lunch ticket.

[Liberal_in_LA]

28. I hear the rescue ship trip will cost 100K

[LisaM]

2. Actually, I'm on board with not giving driver's licenses to 16 year olds

Thanks for checking with me, Mr. Sunderland.

I don't get anyone trying to sail the world by themselves. Why? Personal glory? There is absolutely no other reason, and now France has to send rescue boats. I hope France sends that family a big fat bill.

I really have no patience with people like this. They are conceited bottom feeders as far as I'm concerned. OK, maybe that's a bit harsh, but really. To what purpose is she even doing this, that does not concern self gain? If someone told me that they'd sailed the world alone at age 16 (or any age, for that matter) I would really not be impressed.

[Iwasthere]

4. I bet YOU don't have the Guinness book of world records in YOUR house

I have always been fascinated by that book.

[PearliePoo2]

5. Speaking of books.....

Joshua Slocum's "Sailing Alone Around The World" is a classic, must read.

[cbayer]

16. Voyage of Madmen and Maiden Voyage are much better reads IMO.

The first is about the first single handed around the world race, which was sponsored by the Times of London.

The second is by Tania Abei, who, at the age of 18, was the youngest to sail alone around the world.

Slocum was such a prig and so impressed with the people he met at his stops. That is, he was impressed by the very white, titled English people, not the brown natives, who only impressed him as "savages".

:rofl:

But when he does write about his actual time on the water, it is a great read.

:hi:

[KamaAina]

83. I remember reading a series in Nat Geo by Robin Graham

who tried it when he was Abby's age. Outstanding read, just what Nat Geo ought to be: literally opening up new worlds to impressionable young readers. Then again, he wasn't really unaccompanied: he had kitties with him!!

[HooptieWagon]

104. Good memory.

Yes Robin Lee Graham was 16 when he left ( and much more experienced than either Abby or Jessica), however there are several notable differences between he and Abby. Robin initially set out just to sail to Hawaii during school break. Once there, he asked his parents if he could continue on and they agreed. Robin also navigated with a sextant (no GPS back then), and of course he didn't have a sat phone connection to a shore team that included a weather router. He was literally on his own with two cats and a tape recorder to talk to. The Nat Geo sponsorship didn't come until he was about halfway through the trip, a near collision with a freighter and a dismasting had him out of funds ( he jury-rigged the boat and sailed over 1000 miles to port). He made several stops during the voyage (he took the west-about trade wind route) , met a girl he fell in love with and married, and the subsequent loneliness when he was away from her was pretty severe. He eventually got as far as the Carribbean, and his boat was too dilapidated to continue. He wanted to quit, Nat Geo pressured him to continue, and agreed to buy him a new boat if he'd finish the trip. He got the new boat and finished the trip, but it didn't count as a "record" as youngest circumnavigator (records were somewhat unofficial back then) because his new wife had sailed a short 100 mile leg with him back in South Africa. Anyway, after returning to the States, he sold the new boat, he and his wife started college but quit after a semester, they moved to Montana and bought a farm and started a family. As far as I know, he never sailed again.

[LisaM]

12. Ha ha, no I don't

I find it very phony. Who cares if you make a doughnut that's bigger than someone else's doughnut?

[Seneca]

9. YEAH

Thank you. I thought I was the only DUer who felt the same way about this whole enterprise.

[npk]

69. Don't worry I am sure there is a movie deal in the works

Hollywood will pay the family a handsome sum to turn this saga into a blockbuster. Attention seekers thrive on the media making their story seem larger than life. I am sure this will be no different.

[yawnmaster]

94. What is the reason for doing anything in life? eom

[davidinalameda]

6. wonder if people would be so outraged if this was a boy

instead of a girl

[Seneca]

15. Yep

Her brother is a tool, too. He was lucky he made it all the way. I would happily rag on him if he fucked up like she did.

This isn't about gender. It's about socioeconomic status and what is important in the world, and this isn't it. Circumnavigation of the planet by boat or ship hasn't been newsworthy since Magellan. So when spoiled white rich kids want to do it to be famous and get attention, I say fuck 'em sideways.

[cbayer]

18. Zac Sunderland is not a tool and he was not "lucky".

Abby Sunderland did not fuck up and is neither rich nor spoiled. She never had and does not have now any interest in being famous or getting attention.

Just for the record.....

[LisaM]

22. How did she not fuck up?

If seasoned sailors said she left too late in the season, how can you defend that?

My parents wouldn't let me go to the movies without checking in, so I really don't get your argument that she isn't spoiled. Unless you forgot the sarcasm tag?

[cbayer]

27. There is much debate in the sailing community about her course and timing.

She was forced to make an unanticipated stop in Cape Town, which set her back a few weeks. By the way, this also took her completely out of the running for any kind of "record", which was not what she was after in the first place anyway.

Much thought by her and her team went into whether she should continue or not. It was borderline, and she chose to proceed. She did not fuck up - she made a calculated decision. A decision which many "seasoned" sailors will agree with and others will not.

You and I must have very different ideas about the term spoiled. Taking on one of the most personally and physically challenging things that one can even imagine is not spoiled in my book. It is courageous and life affirming. Not sarcasm tag needed.

:hi:

[RaleighNCDUer]

43. Oh, come on, you know that only spoiled people try to climb

Mount Everest, and only self-centered self-indulgent brats scale K2.

Real people don't have adventures.

[LisaM]

50. There is absolutely no point to it besides trying to set a personal record

I thought the same thing when that child climbed Mt. Everest last week. Expensive, unnecessary, and now it will entail a costly rescue and I would be surprised if the family footed the bill.

There are many ways to personally challenge yourself without all this self aggrandizement. I'm sorry to disagree with you because you are being nice, but I think it's ridiculous.

I also see by your that she must have started out during the school year. I think a kid is spoiled when a parent takes her or him out of school for a family vacation. Doesn't she have to go to school?

[Subdivisions]

59. No other point to it?

So much for a spirit of adventure and self-accomplishment.

Everybody stop what you're doing! You could get hurt!

[DeschutesRiver]

78. +1000

[cbayer]

61. She is home schooled and continued her studies during the trip.

She and her family are some of the least self aggrandizing people one could ever have the absolute honor of meeting.

But they live by, on and for the sea. The trip was financed by contributions of labor, expertise, time and some sponsors. The family is by no stretch of the imagination rich.

FWIW, I live on the sea and completely off the grid. My footprint is extraordinarily small and my ability to experience, savor and take care of the environment enormous. For people like us, this is life at it's fullest.

[yawnmaster]

96. you are right...its best to do what one is told. go to school...

go to work everyday for 30 or 40 years.
retire into a safe obscure world.
die.

next generation.
repeat.

why do any of it?
why do anything?

[HooptieWagon]

67. wtf? Of course it was about "the record"...

... otherwise she wouldn't have gotten all the sponsorship $. Otherwise they would have selected a slower, but more reliable and easier to sail boat. Otherwise she would have waited until a proper weather window. It was ALWAYS about setting a record and becoming "famous".

[cbayer]

74. She had just enough sponsorship & donations to pay for needed equipment and supplies.

She lost any kind of chance at a "record" very early, when she had to restart after repairs in Mexico and then in Cape Town.

You are making assumptions based on false or limited information.

If there was any goal this girl had, it was driven by sibling rivalry - beating her brother's time and going completely unassisted.

Happy sailing!

:hi:

[HooptieWagon]

97. No, she was planning to return to Cabo, thereby completing a circumnavigation.

In theory, that would have set the "record". However, any reasonable expectation of setting the record went out when they were unable to start in Dec b/c of the repairs needed on the racing boat they bought (so she could set the record), and with the slow progress she was making.

If Abby wasn't trying to set a record, why did she get a fragile racing boat, leave during a poor weather window, and attempt the trip non-stop? If she merely wanted to sail around the world solo with no record in mind, she could have gotten a cheaper, easier to sail, and more reliable (albeit slower) boat; waited until a better weather window later in the year; and planned to make several ports during the voyage. That she didn't is an undeniable indication that the plan from the beginning was a publicity-seeking record attempt.

Abby's boat is a 40' racing boat, that should be able to average 8 knots, with a theoretical max speed of 20+ knots. She was barely averaging 5 knots, which indicates she was struggling to handle the boat.

OTOH, Jessica (with some very good advice) bought a tried and proven offshore boat, an S&S 34... many of which have already sailed around the world (one of them twice). In theory, that boat would have a max speed of only about 8 knots, but should easily average 6 knots... which is about what Jessica averaged. Also note that Jessica used a wind vane to steer with, rather than Abby's electric auto pilots; and Jessica's boat only suffered superficial damage despite taking several knockdowns.

While neither girl had extensive prior solo sailing experience, at least Jessica and her team sought and received some good advice - the choice of boat and how well it was prepared being a prime example, and the weather window in which they sailed is another. If Abby and her family got any good advice, then it appears they weren't listening. That falls on either ego or stupidity.

[Nihil]

92. Bull shit.

> She never had and does not have now any interest in being famous or getting attention.

If that were the case, she would not have gone on this particular trip
at this particular time (=age).

"No interest in being famous" my arse.

[LisaM]

19. Totally spot on

I don't think it matters if they're white or not; spoiled kids are spoiled kids, though the ones that have the money to do this do seem to always be white.

I'm really glad I don't know that family.

[KonaKane]

17. I wonder if they would be so outraged if it were an atheist kid

judging from the rampant white-hot hatred of anything religious on this forum.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

20. What the fucking FUCK does this have to do with this thread?

[cbayer]

21. I agree. Using this families religious beliefs as a weapon against them is shameful.

FWIW, there is no question that the dad, Laurence, would have died had he not discovered a faith he could hold on to. They do not proselytize or judge others. The assumptions being made here are embarrassing.

[KonaKane]

23. Thank you. I'm glad I'm not alone in seeing this.

And I hope the attitude turns around soon. It does not speak well of Democrats, Liberals and Progressives.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

24. Who is doing that in this thread? Or anywhere? Nobody mentioned religion.

[cbayer]

26. Well there is this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8537822&mesg_id=8538099

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

31. Ah, there is one. But then again...

...I found another thread with a truly indefensible quote from the father:

"...our decisions are not based on our feelings or even on our own knowledge. We pray for our problems."

I will not call anybody a lunatic just for praying. But THAT is lunacy. Harmful, poisonous, extreme high-octane lunacy.

[cbayer]

33. So, do you think it's ok to discuss the families religious beliefs in this thread or not?

I'm confused.

:shrug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. Yes. Yes it is. Why wouldn't it?

In fact, I'm grateful to KonaKane's thin skin. If not for it, I wouldn't have found that outrageous quote by the father. Still picking my jaw from the floor.

[KonaKane]

41. Their religion isnt to blame. Their poor parental judgement is.

I know plenty of Christian parents who would never in a million years let their kid go out on a venture like that. Your posts are thinly veiled attacks at anything religious, and it gets pretty tedious.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

44. I sincerely hope they believe knowledge is something that's good for making decisions.

It IS possible to be religious and believe that, you know.

I'm saying that one particular person is an idiot, because that one particular person said one particularly idiotic thing.

Unless you agree with that. You don't, do you?

[KonaKane]

73. Personal idiocy is a fair criticism, yes. Basing it solely on their religion is not.

Hope that clears things up.

[cbayer]

46. Her father's statement, made at a time of great duress, reflect his beliefs.

These are the same beliefs that literally saved his life, but that is another story.

Abby's decisions were made with a team of extraordinarily experienced and knowledgeable advisors. You will have to take my word here, but I can guarantee you that their advice and guidance were not based on any religious beliefs.

I tend to agree with your initial position that religion should not be a part of this discussion. My gripe was that it was being used, repeatedly, to attack this girl and her family. That, to me, is shameful.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

49. "I can guarantee you that their advice and guidance were not based on any religious beliefs."

That makes the father a liar, in addition, now, doesn't it?

He proudly and deliberately spouted explicit naked anti-reason propaganda. That means instant shit list for me. I'm going to say exactly what I think about it.

[KonaKane]

75. "naked anti-reason propaganda"

Sounds suspiciously like the charge in the old USSR, leveled at those who would not comply - "Anti-socialist irrationality and hooliganism".

[Sheltiemama]

84. I pray for my problems, too.

But I help God out a little by not putting myself in such dangerous situations. He's busy enough as it is.

[seabeyond]

115. i am not outraged. i would be equally concerned with a 16 yr old boy, as girl

not a gender issue. an age issue.

and still

no outrage.

[patrice]

7. Watch the $$$$$$$$$ made on the name of the Lord through this little escapade.

[Seneca]

8. We don't have enough threads about this

[OutNow]

10. A Lot of People Don't Get Sailing

If you've got sailing in your blood, Abby's quest doesn't seem too unusual. If you're not a sailor, it probably doesn't make any sense. And having a race on a lake where the fastest boat is slower than the slowest motor yacht, and having a freshening breeze over the beam doesn't elicit a surge of adrenaline, etc. etc., then you don't get sailing.

William F. Buckley had horrible politics, but his books about blue water sailing are excellent.

PS. No, sailing isn't just for the uber-rich. I'll never be able to buy that 55 ft at the boat show, but a J/24 isn't expensive at all.

[LisaM]

11. My family actually were shipbuilders and we have a sailing tradition

but we have never felt the need to set unnecessary records.

[KonaKane]

29. Sailing's great. Taking on the entire ocean when you are 16? Not so smart.

I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

[cbayer]

32. Jessica Watson from Australia just completed the same trip, but made no stops.

Jessica's brother, Zac, made the trip at 16 last year, but he made multiple stops.

The sea stopped Abby, but the fact that she is safe is a testament to her boat and her skills. She is, in fact, extraordinarily smart.

[HooptieWagon]

52. Jessica's boat was a much more sensible choice.

Far easier for a solo sailor to handle, and less prone to breakage. In fact, Jessica averaged a far higher speed than Abby, despite having a much slower boat.

That the Sunderlands picked a poor choice of boat for Abby, didn't prepare the boat well (several breakdowns, and dismasting), and then pushed her out into the southern ocean during winter time is all evidence of foolish and irresponsible behavior, and intended to satisfy the sponsors. Is it really worth it to risk Abby's life, not to mention her rescuers, in a publicity stunt?

[treestar]

42. But one can just sail without having to sail around the world solo

There are so many activities involved with it. I don't 'get it' either, and don't sail, but can easily see that there are many people out there sailing all the time, in relative safety, not 2000 miles out in the Southern Indian Ocean 2000 miles from anything, alone.

[RaleighNCDUer]

48. And you can hike the city park, or you can hike in Yellowstone where

there are wolves and grizzlies. Most people choose the city park. Some people don't want to be most people.

[HooptieWagon]

55. But you don't get sponsors and fame by just going out and sailing...

... although you do gain valuable experience, without risking people's lives.

[Dappleganger]

53. I married into a family of sailors.

The only thing I had ever sailed on was a tiny sunfish at city camp, and only remember getting stuck a number of times. When I met my husband at another camp where we were counselors, his family came from several generations of sailors (Long Island). They always had small boats until his folks sold their house in northern VA and they bought a larger, ocean-ready boat and docked it in Annapolis (and the bought a much smaller home). His family taught me to crew on Wednesday night races. I think they liked the fact that I was the only girl their sons brought on board who 1) didn't take it personal while being screamed at during a race and 2) didn't puke her guts out after being out there for half a day or more. Honestly, it was so much fun to do something which for dh and I was free (his parents had the money, not US) and generally had nice people who didn't mind helping you with whatever needed to be done. They reminded me a lot of mechanics or race car folks in that way. The dockmasters were always quick-witted, very blue-collar kind of people too. I don't remember any of the docks they used with pretentious dock managers or owners. They worked with their hands and were proud of it.

Yeah, it's definitely not for those who are just barely getting by. We've never, ever had enough left over to afford a boat (even my telephone man father could afford a damn boat!). But it really is a lot of good, clean fun if you can find a way to join up as crew on someone's boat.

[freddie mertz]

13. Yuck I hate this story.

[KonaKane]

14. LOTS of ignorance about the sea here.

It is not to be trifled with. She can be savage, overwhelming and unforgiving. Here on the coast of Kona they are pulling drowned people from the water all the time, and this is only several yards off shore. I am experienced in sailing but I wouldnt go even a hundred miles out without some company or a back up.

The parents of this kid need to be prosecuted for negligence and reckless endangerment of a minor. This crap the father shot back at the interviewer about kids dying on the freeways all the time is pure diversionary bullshit.

[Dappleganger]

60. But kids DO die on the roads constantly.

That's not some trivial fact, there.

And prosecuting the parents for negligence and reckless endangerment? If you're going to go down that road, then stop issuing drivers licenses to teenagers under the age of 18.

[KonaKane]

76. Non sequitur. Going out alone on the open sea is a thousand times more dangerous

and knowingly so. The parents need to be prosecuted. And for the record, that "deaths on the road" argument in this case is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

[Iggo]

25. Sailing around the world or climbing Mt Everest.

I don't get either one, and I ain't gonna try either one anytime soon.

But I'm also not gonna dog the people who do get it and who do do it.

Yer not gonna get a harumph outa me.

[fishbulb703]

39. +1, if thats what your dream is, go for it. and at 16? courageous. nt

[treestar]

45. I will, because it's useless, and the rest of society has to pay when

it does not work out.

More kudos to people who are cops, firemen, who teach, farm, and do something that matters. And preserves life rather than risking it for no reason other than adventure.

[RaleighNCDUer]

51. Life without adventure is not life.

I had a life of 15 years of adventure - not on the 'sailing around the world' scale, but adventure nonetheless. The last 30 years has been devoid of adventure, as I dealt with family and marriage and jobs and insurance and all the crap that's tied me down. And I hardly remember any of it.

Some people do not choose to bore themselves to death.

On Edit: As i approach retirement and my declining health in my declining years, the greatest regrets I have are for what I did NOT do.

[treestar]

79. Depends on what you mean by adventure

I haven't risked my life by mountain climbing or sailing the open ocean 2000 miles from anything, and I don't consider it not to be life.

People who need that much "adventure" do tend to leave the gene pool early, though.

Failing to appreciate the little things in life and having to do things like this to feel alive - not so good for an individual.

[Nihil]

93. For good reason too ...

> People who need that much "adventure" do tend to leave the gene pool early, though.

> Failing to appreciate the little things in life and having to do things like this
> to feel alive - not so good for an individual.

Yep but some people are so insecure and so determined to extract "recognition" from
others at all costs that they don't only miss out on the obvious but also actively
avoid situations where their natural talents would shine, preferring to go for the
extreme "all or nothing" situation in the hope that the "all" will somehow win them
something that they are currently incapable of recognising.

[yawnmaster]

100. what is the purpose of staying in the gene pool? To just be there as long as possible?

Is this life?

Life
Begin{
birth()
while(living){
eat()
work()
if(random and count < 2){
fork(Life)
count++
}
sleep()
}
}

[Iggo]

54. Adventure is not useless to everyone, and it does matter to many.

[treestar]

80. I feel sorry for them

Imagine how much guilt this girl has to deal with - causing so much expense to others, because her need for adventure is so great. And had she died - wow. It would be worth it? All that grief on the family and friends. High maintenance people, those.

[Iggo]

120. Okay.

:rofl:

[yawnmaster]

98. I've asked many times without an answer yet. Whats the use of doing anything?

What good is society, when it contains just birth, work, death?
Why go to school and learn?
what does learning do for us other than help us work before death?
why does farming matter except to feed us so we can work and then die?
Is the point of living just to live, and live as long as possible, and to give to society so that others can be...
born, work, die?

whats the point?
Is there one?

[oedura]

30. Her father...

...sounds like an idiot. His "Should teenagers drive cars?" comparison is just ridiculous, and is in no way relevant to a 16-year-old girl traveling around the world alone.

And if people in the know are all saying that nobody with any sense would be in that part of the ocean at that time of the year in a small boat, then how can the father make the argument that this girl knew what the hell she was doing?

He should just shut the hell up and thank his lucky stars that the rescuers didn't end up having to pull his little girl's dead body out of the water.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

37. See #31. Idiot is a HELL of an understatement.

[HooptieWagon]

47. Its not so much her age, it's the lack of experience and poor planning/decisions

This is not a trip an inexperienced sailor of any age should undertake. She <might> have the experience, but it sure doesn't appear to be the case. You can't assimilate the many miles and years of experience by your teens, and a few practice sails/photo-ops don't count either. The boat selected was a poor choice, but selected because she needed a fast boat in order to break the record before she got too old, but such a boat is difficult to sail and prone to breaking - it's like putting a teenager in an F1 car for a record attempt. Another poor decision was to be out in the southern ocean during winter. Since her sponsorship pretty much depended on it being a record attempt, I'd say this is less of a case of "fulfilling a dream" and more the case of a publicity stunt and money-making venture. I feel bad for the people who now have to risk their lives to rescue this ill-prepared publicity seeker.

[Sheltiemama]

85. With age comes experience.

Think back to the driver you were at 16. Then compare that to the driver you are now (in my case, at 42). The older you get, I think the better you become at being a defensive driver. You become a better planner, too. I suspect wanting to top her brother figured in, too.

[HooptieWagon]

114. Somewhat true, to an extent.

However, a 16 yo who's just gotten a license probably isn't a whole lot worse than a 40 yo who's just gotten a DL for the first time. So the experience comes with the doing, moreso than just age. However, I do know some young sailors who are much better sailors than adults who've been sailing far longer.

While Abby may be the youngest to attempt this feat, she's certainly not the least experienced - there are people who've started out to sail around the world with no sailing experience whatsoever... but they weren't sponsored, trying to break a record, nor expecting a rescue if they got in trouble - which of course some did, and were never heard from again.

I can't say that there isn't a 16 yo who isn't mature enough to attempt the voyage Abby did, nor would I say there isn't a 16 yo who has the sailing experience. A 16 yo with both would be a pretty rare bird, but not impossible. Not knowing Abby, I can't say about her one way or the other. What I can say is that her attempt was rather badly planned, and it seems the blame for that should fall on her parents since they are her guardians, and claim to be expert sailors. Jessica had a few VERY experienced sailors who mentored her, I suspect that if they thought that she , the boat, or the planning were inadequate, then the trip would have been postponed. It doesn't look like Abby had the benefit of that independent evaluation.

[Pithlet]

64. Yeah. The car quote just confirms my suspicion that the parents are idiots.

And before anyone blah blah blahs at me about following dreams, I'm all for that. I'm just not about idiotic parents endangering their children.

[seabeyond]

116. Should teenagers drive cars?" comparison is just ridiculous

it is ridiculous

and yet

i heard the same argument from duers, lol

[cbayer]

34. Huge cheers to Abby for knowing exactly how to handle a situation that most people

can't even fathom (pun intended).

An awful lot of armchair sailing here from people who are not sailors, as far as I can tell.

:toast: to Abby! Hope you get to try again very soon.

[Dappleganger]

62. For the record, I agree with you.

Some kids are just driven to do crazy things. She could be doing a hell of a lot worse and of course she'll always have a wonderful story to tell her children and grandchildren.

[JonLP24]

68. Thanks for your posts

I recall you posting stories of another person who sailed the globe who wasn't older than this person now who was successful. I support Abby! :toast:

[cbayer]

72. My pleasure. It pains me very much to see Abby and her family attacked.

They are unbelievably nice and wonderful people and nothing like they are being portrayed here and elsewhere.

I will be there when she returns and there again when she leaves to try again.

:toast:

[adigal]

117. You speak like you know the family

so tell them for me that if they cared about their daughter, they would not have put her in the Indian Ocean for a world record, in the winter with cold and storms.

Thanks,

[cbayer]

126. And you speak like you don't know them at all.

I won't be giving them any messages from armchair "sailors" who have the audacity to decide who does and doesn't care about their child. And, by the way, there was no record to be had and it is not winter there.

Thanks,

[adigal]

128. You are seriously misinformed for a "family friend'!!

The other girl, Jessica, was a few days shy of her 17th birthday when she finished her voyage. This girl had 5 months to be as old as Jessica, hence the world record in Guiness. Until the next fools ship their kid around the world in a dinghy.

Her parents put her in a "speed-boat," hard to handle with one person, not as stable. I read all about the speed she should have been doing, and she was doing considerably less. The other girl, in a "slower" boat, averaged a better speed than Sunderland. So while I AM an armchair sailor, I AM objective about this, and it was foolhardy and irresponsible for the parents to allow this, so that they can get fame and fortune. Shame on them, and all of their sychophants!

[HooptieWagon]

130. Newsflash!!! Summer in Northern Hemisphere = winter in Southern Hemisphere.

And she was at 42deg south latitude, which is about as far south as Nova Scotia is north. The only people out on the water in Nova Scotia during the winter are the commercial fishermen. It would be idiocy for a yachtsman to be out, yet that's exactly what Abby did. If she was pushed to do it by parents or sponsors is another matter.

[cbayer]

131. Yes, I know that. And Spring in the Northern Hemisphere = Fall in the Souther Hemisphere.

If you want to get technical, the solstice, and official start of winter, isn't for eight more days. Close, but technically not winter. Though it is the beginning of increased risk of storms, she was heading north.

:hi:

[HooptieWagon]

132. Yes, one week... so she was doing the equivalent of sailing in Nova Scotia in December.

... only 2000 miles offshore. Sounds rather foolhardy.

[cbayer]

134. A risk, to be sure. Her other choice was to abandon her trip completely.

As she was not going to set any "records" after her stop in Cape Town and Jessica already having completed her trip, I was surprised that she chose to continue her trip. But I trusted that she and her team weighed the risks in a deliberate way and decided to take them anyway. That's what we do, right? If we didn't, we would just be tied up at a dock somewhere, like most people that own boats.

She had made it around both capes, the part that all circumnavigators rightfully fear the most, and wanted to attempt the completion. I can assure you that no one is more disappointed than Abby.

[HooptieWagon]

135. "Her other choice was to abandon her trip completely. "

Or could have stored the boat in Cape Town for the winter and resumed the trip in the spring. Either would have been a much more sensible decision, which is why her parents are rightfully taking heat for the irresponsible decision to send a teenager out into the southern ocean during the winter.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. I'm glad they found her, I'm glad she's okay.

People need to mellow out, and stop pretending that every single action taken by every single person on this planet is specifically subject to their approval or disapproval.

[distantearlywarning]

38. +1 to this post. n/t

[Iggo]

56. I, too, am on board with this post.

+ an enthusiastic 1.

[Pithlet]

65. Yeah, going to a message board and expecting no one to post an opinion on anything

That's quite a tall order there. Particularly for DU.

[Warren DeMontague]

90. Of course people have opinions. I guess it's the incessant complaining and armchair QBing

that gets to me. You know, every time someone, somewhere, wipes their ass, it is not necessary to prepare a detailed powerpoint presentation on how you could have wiped it better.

[Pithlet]

110. Again, this is a message board. This is what it is for.

People who care about the world and what is going on in it are going to talk about it. :shrug:

[Warren DeMontague]

111. And I guess I rank people trying to micro-manage other peoples' lives and choices

and one of the big problems going on in the world.

[Pithlet]

112. I think people who worry too much about other people's opinions are throwing

the balance of the universe out of whack, and contributing to major bad vibes. Something must be done :silly:

[Warren DeMontague]

118. I'm going to sail around the world solo

that'll fix it.

[Pithlet]

119. That should do it.

:thumbsup:

[rucky]

122. +1

[treestar]

40. This is nothing like driving

And the only comparison would be percentages. Of course more kids get killed driving, more kids drive.

And she could sail without it being dangerous like this.

There is no need for a kid that age to sail around the world, none. In fact, no one needs to do it. It contributes nothing. Whoever just does their jobs for the day, say teaching, is contributing thousands more per day than this whole trip.

[RaleighNCDUer]

57. If people only did what was 'needed'

nobody would ever do anything.

[treestar]

81. Totally untrue

What a nonsense statement.

[RaleighNCDUer]

109. Without the extras, there's no point to life.

If all I had was work, doing what I 'need' to do, I'd fucking kill myself. Life is not necessity - it is prestigitation, magic, novels and poetry, music and movies, playing and singing - NONE of which are 'needed'.

If people only did what was needed, there would be no reason to do anything - you channeling your inner humourless Marxist, are you? Utility is everything?

[JanMichael]

86. No - actually everything needed would be done.

Instead of bread and circus's surrounded by poverty.

Harrumph!

[Warren DeMontague]

58. No one "needs" to do a lot of things.

Play sports. Eat ice cream. Go to the movies. Surf the internet for non-educational purposes. Masturbate. Doodle. Write songs. Whistle. Build ships in bottles. Plant flowers. Ponder the vastness of the universe.



What an incredibly bleak, boring world this would be if no one did anything except that which was "needed".

[treestar]

82. If this girl had never tried this, the world would be too boring for you?

All of the things you mentioned do not carry a death risk.

[Warren DeMontague]

91. I think that people should worry about their own lives

I'm astounded that people seem to have so much free time, they feel compelled to micro-manage what the other 6 Billion People on the planet are up to.

[Fumesucker]

89. Percentage of sixteen year olds killed while attempting around the world solo sailing..

Zero..

Percentage of sixteen year olds killed while driving.

Greater than zero.

The HS my daughter went to a dozen years ago or so now has two crosses in front of it for kids killed in separate accidents while pulling out of the parking lot onto the main road.

And yet the student parking lot is full of kid's cars every day despite the grim reminder every single parent sees every time they visit the school.

[Arkansas Granny]

127. If there were the same number of solo teen sailing aroung the world

as there are driving automobiles, I expect that the death rate would be much higher. Just because none of the few who have attempted haven't died yet doesn't mean that it's safer than driving.

[HooptieWagon]

133. Very true.

[LisaM]

63. I had a friend who was a big risk taker

He couldn't just go skiing in the normal ski areas. He had to go skiing in the backwoods of British Columbia - in the spring. Guess what? He's dead, killed in an avalanche. He had two kids who were four and seven and a widow who suffered a nervous breakdown after he died. So I view his decision to go, because he got more of a thrill from that kind of skiing to staying where it was safe, as incredibly selfish. It affected a lot of lives.

I didn't realize she was in the pay of sponsors, but it doesn't surprise me that she's homeschooled.

[yawnmaster]

101. And what should your friend have done?

suppose he was hit by a car crossing the street?
Or had a heart attack?
Or killed during a robbery?
Should we all follow a safe pattern of living?

[flvegan]

66. Age doesn't always matter in terms of skill or ability.

Hell, Ferrari's racing team just signed an 11 year old kid.

[HooptieWagon]

71. If they put him in an F1 race, they're as foolish as Abby's parents.

I'm guessing he's in a development series to get experience. It's not her age that raises the question marks, it's her lack of experience... which is greatly illuminated by a poor choice of boat, poor preparation, and poor decision weather-wise. A 50 yo sailor who had similar lack of experience and poor decision-making would be under just as big a question mark... although perhaps not as public if they didn't market themselves all over the media.

[elehhhhna]

87. yep, and Miley Cyrus is a pole dancer.

[lumberjack_jeff]

99. Age is directly proportional to judgement.

Sailing is all about judgement.

[npk]

70. Maybe she will bring back tea and silver to the new world. n/t

[JanMichael]

88. Could be. Maybe they missed that part of history and thought this could bring...

...untold riches.

Next? Alchemy!

[Nihil]

95. Home-schooled. QED. (n/t)

:hide:

[ManiacJoe]

77. Seems like some bad planning took place.

The South ocean is not where you want to be during the winter when using a small boat.

[hayu_lol]

102. As CBayer and others have pointed out many times...

Abby was held up in her schedule because of malfunctions with equipment on her boat. Could happen to anyone. Because she was behind her planned curve, she has had to enter the winter in that hemisphere. She was, by the way, on her way home at the time of the dismasting.

And for others of you: There are no records for people under 18. There would have been personal satisfaction in completing a dream that she trained seriously for--for over three years.

Here in Oregon, we have Mt Hood. People from all over the world like to come climb it--some like to climb it in winter. All to often, our rescue crews have to go and locate these people and when they find them, sometimes some are alive and sometimes dead. Oregon pays for the search and rescue.

Abby trained for this...just as athletes train...and she worked hard for three years preparing herself. She was ready.

Do you naysayers live in caves that you never come out of?

[Pithlet]

106. Sure, we come out of caves

Because we come out of caves, that means no limits should ever be set on children? That they should be allowed to do whatever damn fool thing they want no matter how dangerous? See, I don't happen to think so, even though I do come out of a cave now and then. I think there is a thing called parental responsibility. Not everyone is going to have the exact same idea of where that line is, of course. But I happen to think sending them out alone on a boat around the world crosses well over that line, as apparently do a lot of other people, many of whom sail (they come out of their caves a lot, too, I'm sure).

[HooptieWagon]

107. She didn't train.

Yes, she had sailing experience, but very little as a skipper, and next to none as a solo sailor. I think a weekend jaunt was it (with her "team" following in another boat). What the hell did that do to prepare her? Plus, they only bought the boat last fall, hoped to leave in Dec, but structural repairs to the boat postponed that until Jan. She had next to no time spent sailing in the boat she was going to sail around the world in. Bad plan.

[adigal]

129. New Hampshire now charges you for your rescue

They had so many rescues of fools who want to climb Mt. Washington in winter, especially, that they now charge a rescue charge to whomever uses his/her phone call to ask for help.

[deaniac21]

103. I am so gald this rich kid is so well looked after.

[Dream Girl]

105. Trophy kids, competitive parenting may be partly to blame

Parents have become super competitive with their kids. Its not enough to have a kids who's a god student; they must now excel in at least three sports, be musical prodigies, write books, all for bragging rights. I'm reminded of the 13 year old kid who climbed Mt. Everest a few weeks ago. It's all about one upsmanship and the bonus is being the youngest kid to circumnavigate the world will "look great on a college application."

[HooptieWagon]

108. "partly" = 100% nt

[rucky]

123. you could also look at it

as parents giving kids an opportunity to do something extraordinary. The parents could be pushing their kids, but it could also be something initiated by the kid. If that were the case, then isn't the parent doing their job by encouraging them in pursuing their aspirations? We don't know in this case, but you can usually tell when a kid is being pushed, or if they're truly passionate about something.

[Arkansas Granny]

125. Parents also do their job by protecting their children from pursuing those aspirations

that could put them at risk of losing their lives. Sometimes, as a parent, you have to be the one who exercises the caution and wisdom that a child lacks. Letting a child participate in a dangerous activity just because they are passionate about it is not encouragement.

I don't know this family and I know nothing about sailing. I do, however, know quite a bit about 16 year old children and I have never met one who was mature enough to assess the risks involved in an adventure like this one and who could make a rational decision about participating. I think these parents got caught up in the excitement and notoriety of having not just one, but two children to circumnavigate the globe, solo, at a young age to gain international fame and attention.

[adigal]

113. Her father is an idiot

It's not either or: sail around the world alone, or die in a car crash. Fool. Why was she in the Indian Ocean in the winter down there?? To get the record. Period.

Selfish, self-absorbed fool.

[SoCalDem]

121. They are very lucky she is alive.. and should count their blessings

Here's hoping she's a landlubber for a while :)

(and the "deals" they made with whomever they worship, will be kept)...

[TexasObserver]

124. Her parents were irresponsible and she's a danger to herself and others.

Teens who run off on stupid adventures and cause the adult world to come looking for them are brats.

She's a brat.

The whole family sounds like a bunch of privileged, self indulgent Republicans.