The simplest and most effective solution to the "Social Security Crisis"

[WeDidIt]

Remove the cap on FICA taxes, but leave the cap on Social Security benefits.

Problem solved forever.

[Cary]

1. There is no Social Security Crisis

We have a "conservative" crisis. Those worthless fucks will kill us all.

[bobbolink]

2. Really? Have you noticed its the Dems who are now endangering SS?

[ProgressiveVictory]

41. is it right that people are getting more money than they are putting in?

[bobbolink]

47. As they say here, enjoy your stay.

[truth2power]

54. social Security is an insurance system. It's not about how much you get vs.

how much you put in.

[lib2DaBone]

6. Big Kick. There is no Social Security crisis....

There is a CONSERVATIVE bankster-run-away-greeedy-unregulated-tax-cheating-Corporation problem. (whew)

[blondeatlast]

8. +1. nt

[WeDidIt]

10. Why do you think I put "Social Security Crisis" in quotes?

The problem is, the rich fucks don't want to pay the real price of getting rich in this country.

[Cary]

51. I was agreeing with you

From an actuarial perspective the fund is sound at the moment. We just need an adjustment is all.

There is no Social Security crisis. This is just another piece of "conservative" bumper sticker disinformation.

[DURHAM D]

11. Yep - this SS issue is a solution looking for a false crisis.

IOW - the gov'ment wants to redirect the money to each Senator's and Congresscritter's pet project.

[Hannah Bell]

20. +100. and the "remove the cap" nonsense plays right into their hands.

[defendandprotect]

28. Yes ... and kinda using your post to correct my post below ....

over time the cap has repeatedly been raised -- and think that's probably

the best concept to stick with --

Agree with you on your observation --

[Hannah Bell]

31. increases nearly every year.

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/cbb.html

[defendandprotect]

36. Yeah, but we're only up to wages of $106,000 . . . .

Basically what the right wing did many decades ago was move the burden of FICA taxes

onto the shoulders of the poor and middle class -- they did it to create huge surplusses

which they then borrowed.

In rethinking this -- except for the rw propaganda angle it would provide -- and looking

at the horrendous bail outs and wealth of the right used to influence and buy government

and candidates to do their bidding, I think I'd go for it.

We need a Congress that would do it -- not a DLC dance with capitalists.

[Hannah Bell]

39. $106,800. As for the rest, that's why income taxes need to be raised on the top & on big corps;

so they can pay back the money they "borrowed" from the TF as tax cuts.

Over a trillion in the Bush years alone.

Raising SS taxes doesn't touch big capital in any significant way.

It does, however, hit small companies hard & create a couple of instant lobbying groups in favor of destroying social security. It peels off the support of the upper middle completely, & that would be a stake in the heart of the program.

They're offering a trojan horse; don't take it. The greeks burned troy.

[defendandprotect]

55. Think the tax cuts for rich are to expire this year? Or early next year?.

Obama could have overturned them much earlier -- should have been done --

We're letting states go into bankruptcy -- not repairing infrasructure -

harming public services -- libraries/schools -- all because of this criminal

set up we call capitalism!!

Ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill" system . . .

[suston96]

3. Simplest solution to the phony SS problem? JOBS JOBS JOBS! nt

[Hannah Bell]

32. jobs & pay increases.

[defendandprotect]

37. Right ... they've purposefully stagnated salaries in private sector . . .

Meanwhile, in government, COLA kept the wages rising -- and they are 40% or more

higher than private industry jobs now.

In other words, the average pay check should be doubled --

AND, the minimum wage should actually reflect a living wage -- I'd say, at least $20 hour!

[Hannah Bell]

42. Labor needs a raise; capital needs a cut. in general. raising the cap = another cut for labor &

doesn't hit capital.

[defendandprotect]

50. We should retroactively increase paychecks based on Congress' raising their

own salaries over the decades!!

Including Minimum wage --

[DURHAM D]

Another way to solve the money problem:

Change the contract terms with oil producers that drill on public land - dry and offshore - to a more reasonable percentage of the royalties. Get rid of all the 1/8th (12.5%) and change to l/4 or l/3.

Every farmer and rancher has figured out that they don't need to accept the almost century old 1/8th from oil companies now. If those "stupid ignorant people" can figure it out why can't the Interior Department?

[defendandprotect]

25. Better yet -- nationalize the oil industry --

[DURHAM D]

35. You want Salazar or a bunch of Cheney people trying to run that business?

I don't.

Let the producers have the risk - we just need to take our share of the proceeds and regulate the hell out of them.

[defendandprotect]

38. I don't want crooks running any part of government ... but that's what we have!

Cheney may be gone, but we still have Salazar --

and too many Dems making pro-corporate decisions!!

However, that has nothing to do with nationalizing the oil industry . . .

time to take back control of our natural resources from private interests --

and until we do there will be no alternative energy.

[defendandprotect]

4. We should remove cap on FICA taxes -- but not cap Social Security benefits . . .

unless you're predicting that there will be no more inflation?

Every dollar you had before W became president is worth about 50 cents now --

Social Security checks should be TWICE what they are now -- just based on past

inflation -- and gimmicking of the COLA regulations by GOP.



And, yes, there is no Social Security "crisis" except in the minds of those who would

like to move the trust fund to Wall Street.

It's soluble now to 2038 -- and we don't need to entirely remove the cap on FICA taxes ...

even a small increase would make the Trust Fund viable for an even longer period of time.



IF ALL THE MONEY BORROWED FROM THE FUND -- FOR WARS, FOR TAX BREAKS FOR THE WEALTHY, ETAL --

WERE RETURNED TO THE SOCIAL SECURITY FUND, SOCIAL SECURITY WOULD BE INFINITELY SOLUBLE!!

[WeDidIt]

The cap fluctuates with COLAs, just like it always has.

[defendandprotect]

13. The COLA regulations have been damaged/changed by GOP . .

why should there be any cap on benefits -- ?
they're already only half of what they should be --

[WeDidIt]

18. Because if there is no cap

The rich people will get tens of thousands of dollars each month and we're right back where we started.

[Hannah Bell]

21. rich people don't pay social security to any great degree; they make their money from capital, not

wages.

[Romulox]

23. Which makes your "this will make SS subject to the whims of the rich" objection ring false

There is no rational reason people making more than $100,000 should pay a smaller percentage of their income on SS than do the working poor.

[Hannah Bell]

27. if they pay for the bulk of it, indeed it will be. the strength of the program is that they don't.

[Romulox]

30. How about if they pay their fair share, just like *everyone else* who makes less than $100,000

:hi:

[Hannah Bell]

34. they can pay their fair share of income tax & pay back the trust fund. that keeps SS

actuarily sound for 30 years, even by the conservative & usually wrong assumptions of the SS trustees.

folks who want to lift the cap above the 90% cut-off are either misinformed or wish to destroy the program.

[defendandprotect]

40. Rather, the elites have moved the burden of FICA onto the shoulders of the poor + middle class....

[Hannah Bell]

44. um, if you do the math, you'll find it's not entirely the case; no more so than ever, as the

tax arrangement is the same as it ever was; flat tax up to a 90% cap.

what in fact happened is that capital's paid errand boys assessed a higher rate than was needed to pay for the program 1983 to present, resulting in over a trillion dollars in surplus in the social security trust fund, plus interest -- about 3 trillion now & still growing.

which capital borrowed in the form of tax cuts.

now the same actors want to raise the cap and take more money from labor without paying back what they "borrowed".

in other words, they want to keep the money & make labor pay twice for reduced benefits.

trojan horse based on a bait & switch.

[defendandprotect]

48. FICA taxes have been paid mainly by the poor and middle class . . .

what in fact happened is that capital's paid errand boys assessed a higher rate than was needed to pay for the program 1983 to present, resulting in over a trillion dollars in surplus in the social security trust fund, plus interest -- about 3 trillion now & still growing.


Allegedly to pay for baby boomer retirements --

however, as you also note its actual intent was to create an even larger surplus for borrowing.



what in fact happened is that capital's paid errand boys assessed a higher rate than was needed to pay for the program 1983 to present, resulting in over a trillion dollars in surplus in the social security trust fund, plus interest -- about 3 trillion now & still growing.

Exactly -- and Greenspan dreamed that one up and -- think probably Wm. Greider is the one I remember

on this -- it was pushed thru Congress late one night.

If anyone recalls, Poppy Bush at first proposed sending the IRS out after the POOR in order to

raise more of a slush fund for his administration but the public was so horrified at that idea

that they reverted to increasing the Social Security surplus by increasing the FICA --

increasing it unnecessarily and heavily which moved the burden onto the shoulders of the poor

and middle class.



now the same actors want to raise the cap and take more money from labor without paying back what they "borrowed".

And, yes, on that -- if the Treasury Notes given over to Social Security Fund as an "IOW" were

actually cashed in, evidently Social Security would be infinitely soluable.



in other words, they want to keep the money & make labor pay twice for reduced benefits.

trojan horse based on a bait & switch.


Until we end our system of capitaism, we will always be threatened by this criminal activity

and its hold on government. That's all it is -- crime.

[lib2DaBone]

52. They WANT that Social Security Money.....they are coming and they won't stop...

..It is like a bad itch... they want to scratch it... it's taunting the Repukes... glistening in the sun... a giant neaon sign that reads "EASY MONEY".

They are Repukes... they can't HELP themsleves.. they HAVE to steal and cheat and snake on innocent working people and little old ladies. Its' "What they do"... it's in their Republican genes.... easy money... slime..puke..steal..lie...war...kill..smear...hate. Gaaawd made me do it.

[defendandprotect]

53. Imagine if W had been able to get ahold of the SS Trust fund when he was after it--!!!???

It would now all be blown away in the financial crisis!

Agree with your assessment completely --

but now we have to worry about Dems doing what Repugs couldn't do -- !!

Like Clinton overturn 60 years of Welfare guarantees!!


Not encouraged by the panel Obama has put in place to work on Social Security!!!

[defendandprotect]

24. First, it is right wing propaganda that there is a "crisis" ... so suggesting

that "we're right back where we started" is an attempt to validate that myth/lie.

Second, "rich people" are just as entitled to whatever they put into Social Security

as anyone else is.

If you begin to try to limit what the "rich" get in return, you're working on creating

a welfare system for the "poor."

Social Security was founded on a sound basis -- we should stick with the original concept.

[defendandprotect]

14. COLA regulations have been changed and corrupted by GOP --

why should there be any cap on benefits -- ?

They're already only half of what they should be --

[theoldman]

5. Raise the age and increase the cap.

This is not the 1930s when people died before 65 and earned less.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

9. The age has been raised past 65.

Did you mean to raise it more than the 66-67 slider it's currently on?

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/retire2/agereduction.htm

[sui generis]

17. yeah the actuary is pretty horrifying actually

something like 70 percent of all people contributing to SS in the income and savings brackets that would indicate the greatest need for it are dead long before they could ever file.

Kind of ironic, just a little.

[defendandprotect]

29. Look around you, we've forced 65 year olds back into the work place ...

as cheap labor competiting with youth for jobs --

Not only do they continue to pay into Social Security, their benefits will not

ever increase because of those additional payments.

They've valued employees for their experience -- and because they have MEDICARE ...

quite a savings for any company which would ordinarily pay health care benefits.

It's just another means of harvesting slave labor -- always an interest of capitalists.

[Hannah Bell]

22. the age has already been raised to 67, and that covers the increase in life expectancy

over age 65 for the boomers.

so forget that crap.

most of the gains in life expectancy since the 30s have been in infancy, childhood & young adulthood.

[eridani]

46. That particular life expectancy data is bullshit, because it is life expectancy from BIRTH

Increase in life expectancy from birth is NOT driven by people living longer, but from the elimination of widespread infant mortality. Once you get to age 65, FURTHER life expectancy has increased only by a few years since the 30s.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/tables/2002/02hus030.pdf

NEW HEALTH STATISTICS from the CDC show these death trends over the past 50 years:

Heart disease down 64%
Colon and related cancers down 31%
Prostate cancer up 3%
Breast cancer down 15%
Male diabetes up 47%
Female diabetes down 14%
Motor vehicle fatalities down 46%
Suicide down 20%
Murder up 20%
HIV down 66% since 1990
Life expectancy at 65 years for males up 3.5 years
Life expectancy at 65 years for females up 4.2 years

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Or, we could borrow the money from the Pentagon.

[lib2DaBone]

12. Bigger Bonuses for Goldman Sachs...Make Grandma Eat Cat Food..

THAT'S the answer to the crisis. :mad:

[Walk away]

15. Somewhere out there a Libertarian just died!.. .. ..nt

[indepat]

16. As I recall from 20+ years ago, social security is three-tiered and when the

that third tier is reached, social security contributions are mostly confiscatory, i.e., the ultimate annuitant will get a very poor return on those contributions funding that third-tier. All this is a-ok, honky-dore, good for society, good for America, but just the thought of adding a fourth-tier which would exclusively soak the rich (require social security contributions on all earned income now exceeding the maximum earned income now subject to social security contributions), such a concept is so flawed, so un-American, so socialist, so communistic, so bad for America and everything America stands (unfettered capitalism free of government interference except when their capitalistic losses need to be socialized) that the Congress will never stand for it, will never let it happen. :P

[DURHAM D]

19. I don't think that most realize that:

SS is regressive on the front end (collection of) and progressive (pay outs) on the back end.

[defendandprotect]

33. Hmmmm.... "sarcasm" by any chance?

such a concept is so flawed, so un-American, so socialist, so communistic, so bad for America and everything America stands (unfettered capitalism free of government interference except when their capitalistic losses need to be socialized) that the Congress will never stand for it, will never let it happen.

Considering capitalism's criminal tendencies and the tendenciey of elites to use wealth to

buy government influence -- I think I'm going with total removal of the cap on wages.

The right wing over decades has put the full burden of FICA taxes onto the poor and the middle

class -- time for a change!!

[indepat]

45. And sadly I don't hear the administration nor any Dem congress-critters clamoring for fairness in th...

tax code, to let Warren Buffet send as high a percentage of his total income to Uncle Sammie as does his secretary. No siree, let's gut social security and Medicare, but neither re-institute the estate tax nor meaningfully raise the highest marginal tax rates nor do away with favored treatment of dividends (guess what economic class receives most of the dividends?) nor raise taxes on capital gains (guess what economic class receives most capital gains?) nor close corporate tax havens and loopholes. No siree, but let's gut social security and Medicare because it's the right, far-right thing to do. :D

[defendandprotect]

49. This was bad enough when Republicans were doing it to us . . ..

now ....

really, really, really sickening!!

:nuke:

[indepat]

56. Like the last-throes of death for any ideas progressive in nature, to wit: a total capitulation

to corporate interests (corporatism and corporate welfare) and to those individuals who own/control some 90+% of the wealth (even more welfare for the uber-wealthy) as tens of millions more Americans are pushed into poverty by our corporatist government, making a mockery of government of, by, and for the people, a mockery of every founding principle of this once-Republic. :cry:

[RC]

26. Stop all our wars. Bring all of our troops home.

Use the money saved to rebuild our own infrastructure, using the newly returned troops, released because they are no longer needed to terrorize and kill civilians in other countries, and the current un and under employed.
We will need everything from people swinging shovels to engineers. And the facilities to manufacture the tools and equipment - IN THIS Country.
After this country is rebuilt, then it needs to be maintained.

And with the money left over, implement Single Payer, Universal Health Care.

Social Security would then not be a problem for generations, if ever.

[defendandprotect]

43. Our real problems are MIC . . . and wars bankrupting the Treasury ...

not to mention what illegal and immoral wars do to America's karma --

things like killing 1 million plus Muslims!!

Dropping atomic weapons on Japanese civilians!!