I'm staying up late watching CA's Prop 16 vote.

[Hello_Kitty]

With all the bullshit going on here in AZ I hadn't been following the CA races. Back in 2008 there was an initiative on the AZ ballot called Majority Rules (Prop 105), which would have required a 2/3 majority for any ballot measure that would spend money. That meant not only that which would raise taxes, but anything that would require money to be spent. So an initiative that would regulate an industry would be subjected to this rule because money might have to be spent for compliance or enforcement.

Prop 105 got it's ass handed to it, because a broad coalition of groups, from labor unions to Chambers of Commerce, opposed it. The proponents of Prop 105 still raised and spent twice as much as the opposition. But the opponents ran a series of brilliant ads depicting a lazy guy in a Cheeto stained t-shirt lolling on the couch watching TV. "I don't have to go vote? Works for me!" The message was clear: passage of the measure would mean that people who can't be bothered to vote would be counted as a "no" vote. It worked.

With Prop 16 in CA, opposition is strong among many interest groups, but the supporters had $46 million to spend convincing voters that letting municipalities set up or expand their own energy production was a threat to democracy and economic security.

Right now local governments in California can spend public money or incur public debt to take over private electric businesses without letting local voters have the final say. That's why California needs Prop. 16. In tough economic times like these, voters deserve the right to have the final say about how our money is spent.

I am shitting bricks over Prop 16, because of the ramifications to renewable energy and the electoral process.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Here's a good place to watch:

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/returns/props/59.htm

I am beginning to feel hopeful...

[Caliman73]

2. It is close

The no side is holding at 51% actually a slight widening with a little over 50% of precincts counted.

[Codeine]

3. I didn't see a reason to vote yes on any of those propositions.

God, I hate the proposition system.

[tblue]

4. 15 was a definite yes, to give Campaign Finance Reform a try.

That is the most important thing we need to do, get corporations out of the business of buying politicians.

[Codeine]

7. I didn't like that it was just one office,

but I gave it a yes vote at the last minute. Still weak sauce.

[tblue]

18. It was intended as a pilot, to show it could be done.

But not at this time, I guess. Sigh.

[Caliman73]

12. The problem is that 15 doesn't come close to doing that.

It does not prohibit private financing or 527 groups. I am all for public financing. Actually what I would propose is completely equalized campaigns. Where all parties were prohibited from using any private financing. Where each Party, and I am talking Democratic, Republican, Green, Libertarian, Peace and Freedom get equal air time to describe their platform and stances. I would propose that a series of debates would be held where all of the Parties' candidates could participate and that the debates would be shown on the local network affiliates as a public service. Prop 15 I think is a good intention, but too flawed to make any kind of difference.

[Born_A_Truman]

5. So do I.

So much of it is misleading!

[Hello_Kitty]

6. The proposition system is well-intentioned.

It's intended to provide citizens with a workaround for ineffectual legislatures. The problem in practice is that moneyed interests game the system. Paid petition gathering should be banned.

[Codeine]

8. I do not believe voters are informed enough

to make meaningful decisions regarding what are often tremendously involved and enormous changes. Almost every major problem here can be traced back to one proposition or another -- mostly 13.

[JI7]

9. yup, and that stupid term limits for the state legislature

[Codeine]

10. Oh goodness, that one too.

Term limits are a pet peeve of mine.

[Caliman73]

14. There are still people who think that is a good idea.

It sounds nice. "Let's get new blood in there.." It has turned out horribly. Perfect example of trying to stitch up a wound with a mallet. We get all these newbies into the legislature and who is there waiting for them to come in...the fucking lobbyists who have been there for decades just itching to show the greenies how things work.. :puke:

[Hello_Kitty]

13. Which is why if you want to do an initiative

You should have enough excited volunteers to get it on the ballot.

Interestingly, here in AZ many of the good things we have are the result of propositions. Our RW nutbag legislature passes things like SB1070, allowing guns in bars, and "Birther" bills. They cut taxes, funding to the schools, and social services every chance they get. OTOH, voter initiatives have brought us expanded Medicaid, early childhood programs, and medical marijuana. Medical marijuana passed twice with the voters but the Legislature found a way to overturn it. Because of that, yet another voter initiative stopped the Lege from being able to overturn initiatives so easily. Medical marijuana will be on the ballot this year in Arizona. We'd be waiting until the cows came home for cancer patients to get relief if we had to depend on the Lege. That said, we've had some bad things result from referendums, like the anti-gay marriage amendment. But that was referred to the ballot by our nutbag legislature and heavily funded by the LDS Church.

[Johonny]

17. the props always scare the * out of me

and some always pass, the ones that fail always return with different marketing and even more up beat positive wording.

[Merchant Marine]

11. I voted no on all the propositions

And I will continue to do so until people realize that a majority vote is an idiotic way to amend a state constitution. The proposition system has brought the state nothing but financial ruin.

[winstars]

15. NOT GOING WELL!!!

A lot of the county's that voted to do the right thing are all in at this point. Pug stronghold's like the OC and San Diego are still at 50 ish %. Let's see but what's left to count seems to be the pug scum counties.... For instance, SF is at 100% counted so....


Fuck Mercury Ins and Fuck the P&G!!!!

[Hello_Kitty]

16. I'm SOOOOO glad it failed!! Ya got this one right, CA voters!! eom