Author of Papers Please law trained deputies on “reasonable suspicion” months before law passed

[Are_grits_groceries]

VIDEO: Author of Papers Please law trained deputies on “reasonable suspicion” months before law passed

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid49625183001?bctid=83787450001

Kris Kobach began instructing Maricopa County Sheriff’s deputies on their power to enforce immigration laws months before SB 1070 passed, including the topic of ‘reasonable suspicion.’
http://www.azcentral.com

Always on the up and up they are............ Meh!

[Echo In Light]

1. .

k/R

[blondeatlast]

2. "Individual's appearance is unusual or out of place for the locale..."

Nope, not at all about race, nooooo...

And that backdrop isn't a tell, either, hell no.

Fucking racists. I won't apologize for calling them that, either.

[pinboy3niner]

8. Like DWB in Beverly Hills

And just as racist.

Apologize for calling it out? No way in hell!

[blondeatlast]

9. My thoughts exactly. My ex is Asian Indian but light skinned and was often mistaken for

"Mexican." and he drove* a late model Lexus.

I've known that feeling of the marked car following intently behind, known full well that the plates were being run.

*He's still alive and we get along, the past tense is because he now resides in the Czech Republic--where, yes, he's the target of scrutiny...

Funny how Maricopa County is so like an ex Iron Curtain city--and vice-versa.

[Lyric]

3. So basically, any Latino who doesn't speak English well

and who happens to be shopping at a plaza where day laborers often hang out looking for jobs is subject to being detained and interrogated.

And god forbid, a non-wealthy Latino person be anywhere NEAR one of those lily-white gated McMansion communities.

Oh yeah, no racism there at ALL.

:eyes:

[Are_grits_groceries]

4. Talk about a lot of reasonable suspicions. Only 20.

How about checking their breathing patterns?

[blondeatlast]

5. Pace on the breath? Pass. Cholula? Papers please. nt

[krabigirl]

6. OMG...couldn't these things apply to tourists as well? They'd only have a foreign ID as well.

scary, scary stuff.

[jp11]

7. Quick and dirty:

If an officer finds that at least two or more of the following are true than you might be an illegal:

Person can't speak english, doesn't understand english or speaks english very poorly

Person has no identification at all

Person has a foreign ID (& no us govt id state driver's license, AZ or other, no visa/passport)

Admits to not being a citizen but will not answer more questions

Appearance is unusual or out of place in a locale

location of stop is known by LEO's as place for smuggling/crossing ie. has a history where illegals are known to be

person appears to have traveled a long distance

demeanor appears to show they are illegal ie. they run from police

a vehicle is overcrowded, or overweight

passengers in vehicle appear to try to hide or make themselves unseen to LEO's (by closing their eyes and whispering 'iniate cloaking device' this may mean they are romulans)

usual patterns of smuggling present; the time of day when illegals do illegal stuff like crossing borders or going to buy milk or the illegal stereotype vehicle, past history again

LEO knowledge that illegals have been there before doing illegal type stuff

evasive maneuvers - ie. exiting highway quickly when a LEO is seen

presence of a 'lookout'; watching officers perhaps to alert illegals

vehicle has foreign plates

person is in company of illegals (guild by association)

past history of what illegals look like, officer discretion

vehicle appears to have been on a long trip

avoids eye contact with officer


Yeah that's some great training, that makes nearly anyone who encounters a LEO subject to 'papers please' suspicion.

[johnaries]

11. Wait a minute.....

"Person has no identification at all

Person has a foreign ID (& no us govt id state driver's license, AZ or other, no visa/passport)"

Both of those can only be determined AFTER they have been asked for ID.

Also, many immigrants come from areas where the Police are extremely corrupt and therefore have a distrust of all police - which covers about half of the list.

But this is the one that gets me the most: "past history of what illegals look like, officer discretion"

Someone please explain to me how this is NOT racial profiling?

[blondeatlast]

12. Well, it's like this...

It isn't, isn't, ISN'T!!!

So stop saying that!

I've heard all the talking points from the non-racist Libertarians and Democrats and Republicans I can stand and so far that's as good a reason as I've been given.

And I know thay aren't racist because they keep telling me so: "I'm not a racist, but... and that's why SB 1070 isn't racist."

Not much help, but it's all I can seem to glean from the argument.

[jp11]

17. The law says the police can only do that with a lawful stop, basically if you break a law/ordinance

or are pulled over, they are allowed to ask for identification, nothing new there. What is nice for them is that they stopped you and ask for id, that's one off their list, one more 'suspicion' and they can ask for proof of citizenship, as the training says they must use more than one criteria.

Yeah the law says they can't use racial profiling so that and the list of things they can use for justification means they can profile then claim any of the 20 or so other things as the other requirement to demand 'papers please', yeah he didn't look me in the eye.

[harkadog]

18. And exactly how is this different than the federal immigration LEO standards?

Not at all. They of course use the same reasonable suspicion standards but no one want to talk about that because then they couldn't jump on AZ.

[Riftaxe]

10. I would dearly hope they have trained their Officers

on the matter since the supreme court not only upheld but made legal the definition of Reasonable suspicion. Terry stops have been the law of the land for over 40 years.

Why all the outrage over this standard now and not before, i mean i can see letting something slip for a few years, but over 4 decades? come on now....

[blondeatlast]

14. I hope, dear relatively new DUer, that you watched the video before posting. And you may want to

Google Sheriff Joe Arpaio as well--that's his gang that was being trained before the bill was even voted on.

[Riftaxe]

16. I have no particular love for Arpaio

But reasonable suspicion standard is established law, and some people are making way to much of something that has been around for decades. If Arpaio decides to implement his own standard, then he will make a few people very rich...i certianly will not cry over that :evilgrin:

[MadMaddie]

13. I had to explain to my young white male co-worker 33 that

even though he thinks it's no big deal to get questioned for anything because you would show your id if you had nothing to hide......(insert right wing talking point here)

I had to explain to him that he being a white male would never get stopped in AZ. Sigh.....then he says well life is not fair so the Hispanic Americans should suck it up......he's a Christian you know and he goes to church every Sunday.....

Yep.....(we actually are friends but our politics are at the opposite end of the spectrum)

[Trillo]

15. It's amazing how *all* of us little people must "be educated"

yet our laws and such seem to come from a very few, for a very few -- but if we don't follow them, we go to jail -- if they don't follow them, it's a mere note on a newspaper's page, maybe a back page. Perhaps there's a little outrage that dies down as soon as the next big crisis comes along, always within the next day or two.

Massive and catastrophic oil spill in Gulf? Think about Korea. Don't worry about Korea, think about Israel and Palestine. No. Worry about Korea. Don't worry about the Gulf, BP has it "under control".

No longer a free country. No longer sure if it ever was.