The Widening Rift Between Teachers and Democrats

[Karmadillo]

http://www.counterpunch.com/cooke06022010.html

The corporate media are honest on rare occasions. Take for example a recent article in The New York Times Magazine, titled The Teachers’ Union’s Last Stand (05-23-10). The title itself admits that the nation’s teachers are being targeted for attack by the Obama Administration, through his “Race to the Top” education reform. And although the article has an inherently corporate bias, it contains many revelations that have been otherwise ignored in the mainstream media.

The article outlines the two contending forces behind the national education “debate”: the corporate “reformers” and the “anti-change” teacher unions. Who are the reformers? The New York Times answers: “…high-powered foundations, like the Gates Foundation… and wealthy entrepreneurs, who have poured seed money into charter schools.” Other reformers include: “… a new crop of Democratic politicians across the country — including President Obama — who seem willing to challenge the teachers’ unions.”

<edit>

The Democrats demanding these concessions are creating conflicts between the unions to an unheard of degree. If a complete break happens between the unions and Democrats — as it should — the repercussions would be enormous. The New York Times explains: “If unions are the Democratic Party’s base, then teachers’ unions are the base of the base. The two national teachers’ unions — the American Federation of Teachers and the larger National Education Association — together have more than 4.6 million members. That is roughly a quarter of all the union members in the country. Teachers are the best field troops in local elections…. In the last 30 years, the teachers’ unions have contributed nearly $57.4 million to federal campaigns… and they have typically contributed many times more to state and local candidates. About 95 percent of it has gone to Democrats.” Teachers’ unions cannot continue to support a political party that aims to destroy them.

Even Weingarten was forced to admit “deliberately or not, President Obama, whom I supported, has shifted the focus from resources and innovation and collaboration to blaming it all on dedicated teachers.”

more...

[katandmoon]

1. Just another huge Obama disappointment.

[DJ13]

4. ..... in an ever lengthening list

[slay]

53. Yep. It's sad how much potential for change there was after Bush and how Obama has not done it

granted "the right" has their 24/7 noise machines in foxnews, limbaugh, etc, where they call him a socialist, hitler, etc but that is still no excuse for Obama to waste all the potential for positive change. he campaigned on change, people voted for change - but he has failed to deliver when we needed him most. :(

[Peregrine Took]

56. Bill Clinton was a disappointment but Obama is atrocious. My husband

warned me that he would be almost less than worthless/Bush but I didn't believe him. Sigh....

[JDPriestly]

58. IMO, Clinton would not have been one iota beter.

Dodd would have been a dud. Kucinich would have been great but unelectable and, if he did manage to get elected, unable to get anything through Congress. Biden was a fair bet, but who knows whether he would have done any better than Obama.

Edwards was the best on policy and understanding of strategy, but his personal life was huge minus. He pretty much ruined any chance of a political career with his stupid sex life. (Still can't see the appeal of the woman with whom he had an affair.)

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[joeybee12]

2. I rec'ed just as some twit un-recc'ed...lots of growing rifts between

Obama and core constituencies...I hope and pray for someone to primary him in 2012, but don't think that will happen.

[lib2DaBone]

29. I don't think Obama wants to run again....

..If he can bust the teachers union, get rid of Social Security and Medicare (which he is going to do behind closed doors after the November elections) and keep both wars going... he will have served his corporate masters.

Mission accomplished.

[liberation]

42. He will run in 2012 and he will win

Rahm et al know damn well the GOP is in no shape on running a proper campaign then. That is why they gave the old "thanks and now fuck off" to Dean, since they know they have the next electoral cycle in the bag and the DLC can now do what they always wanted: to have their own private GOP.

[JDPriestly]

59. Don't be so sure, liberation.

If the Republicans run someone like Bloomberg, they just might win.

Bobby Jindal is popular in the South now. (I do not know why, but he seems to be getting good press.) Obama has lost the support of most of his base. How is he going to even run a campaign?

[donco6]

3. I guess they don't think teachers matter in elections.

And it's not just teachers. All the other folks associated with public schools - the kitchen workers, bus drivers, mechanics, maintenance men/women, custodians, paraprofessionals - they follow the teachers' lead most of the time. They may not vote Republican, but I can't imagine them volunteering for phone banking any time soon. Why would they?

[Greyhound]

5. "We've got unlimited corporate bribes now, so fuck you and your whiney-ass complaining".

"You do know that a one-term President gets the same as a two-termer, right?"

When you've got all the money, "we don't need no education".
:rofl:

Thanks, suckers!
:kick: & R

[bvar22]

6. Why would they?

Why would any American who Works for a Living lift a finger to help The "Democratic Party" at this point? :shrug:

I used to mercilessly ridicule Working/Middle Class Republicans for voting against their own economic interests.
NOW, I'm being asked to do the same.

The bad news is:
There is no such thing as "Free Markets".
There is no such thing as "Free Trade".
There is certainly NO Giant "Invisible Hand" that magically reaches down and "corrects" markets.

The RICH Corporate Owners (top 1%) made that shit up and sold it to gullible Americans
using their bought mouth pieces in BOTH political parties.

Any "Democrat" who hypes "Free Markets" or "Free Trade" is NOT your friend if you Work for a Living.

[awoke_in_2003]

93. George Carlin said...

"they call it the american dream because you have to be asleep to believe it"

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. I've gotten a bunch of emails and a couple phone calls asking for my help this weekend

OFA is doing some kind of canvass this weekend. I have ignored most of the emails. I told the phone callers no I am not interested in helping OFA or Obama anymore. When they asked why not I said "I'm a teacher" and the callers were surprised to learn teachers weren't happy with Obama. One said I was silly to blame him for the school closings in my area. (An assumption since I didn't say anything about that.)

In spite of all the discussions we have here and the online conversations on this topic, OFA doesn't have any idea Obama has lost teachers. Sad, isn't it?

[donco6]

30. How clueless can they be?

Do they read nothing? Again, I wonder if it's the lack of empathy we see today. They can't - when they see a news article - take a moment and think, "Hmm, I wonder how a teacher would feel, knowing they can be fired at any time based on their students' test scores?"

[laughingliberal]

41. Very sad. Teachers are getting the treatment nurses got when the for profits took over hospitals.

I'm very unhappy to see Democrats dumping the teacher's unions.

[hollowdweller]

7. Democrats have been screwing unions for at least the last 15 years

At the state level in my state, republican governors have given state employees more perks than Democratic ones yet our public employee unions always reflexively support the democrat, who always ends up screwing us.

Same way Nationally far as I can see.

The only difference is now I'm maybe seeing the unions get the balls to say f*ck you if I bring you to the dance and then you won't dance with me.

I personally think it's a good sign. The corporatist drift of the democratic party is in part due to the unions and progressives supporting dems and getting nothing in return.

Gore would have won more decisively and beyond challenge in 2000 if he and Clinton had been less corporatist. But after Gore debated Perot IN FAVOR of NAFTA that turned a LOT of union members OFF.

[Gaedel]

85. It is the "only Nixon could go to China" principle

"At the state level in my state, republican governors have given state employees more perks than Democratic ones yet our public employee unions always reflexively support the democrat, who always ends up screwing us."


The biggest screwing the Federal Civil Service got (going from the CERS to FERS retirement system) came courtesy of Jimmy Carter and a solidly post-Watergate Dem senate and house.

If Nixon or Ford had tried it, the screams would have been loud and long. Since it was our own guy doing it, the fed civil service unions just rolled over and played dead. Then they tried telling their members how "great" FERS was going to be for them.

[Davis_X_Machina]

8. There's no downside risk politically. None, Zero. Zip. Nada.

Only about one household in four has a child in a public school.

The median voter hears 'school teacher', but....

He thinks 'highly compensated civil service drone with a defined benefit pension -- which I *used* to have.

He thinks 'highly compensated civil service drone with good group health coverage -- which I *used* to have.

He thinks 'highly compensated civil service drone with union protection against arbitrary dismissal -- and I don't even have the option of joining a union.

Bad times need scapegoats. Teachers will do.

There's *no* political downside risk to going after teachers -- which Democrat's campaign wouldn't benefit from a million little 'Sister Souljah' moments?

[roguevalley]

19. actually, there is. go to any dem meeting or a meeting organizing

for a campaign and the backbone is teachers. not wise to piss off your army, teachers and unions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. The new generation don't care and won't connect

dots until... oh wait, they have in the past and still cannot connect dots. You screw with the base, they stay home.

[Starry Messenger]

11. Rift?

I guess if the Grand Canyon is a rift.

[harry_pothead]

12. That's exactly right.

I removed my Obama sticker after he supported the mass-firings of the Central Falls 93.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Me too

And so did nearly every teacher I know.

[mzteris]

16. I guess Madison union teachers

are different - they pretty much all still love and support Obama.

[Moochy]

27. Maybe they should pay attention more

[mzteris]

69. I think they pay attention just fine.

Madisonians are typically very liberal. And very smart. good combination, don't you think?

Hmmmmm - maybe they know/admit something that some people just "can't". ya know?

[Moochy]

77. Have you read about the teacher firings that Obama supported?

Arne Duncan is a hack, and these Madisonians with their head in the sand should read about their fellow teachers, and what School Privatization means to them.

[mzteris]

81. you read too much propoganda.

That isn't exactly what happened.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Got those teacher's attention, didn't it?

[Moochy]

83. Your Brand is Crisis

[mzteris]

111. "my brand is crisis"??

um- care to be a bit less cryptic?

If anything, my "brand" (if i'm interpreting you correctly) is FIXING things. It's a bad habit of mine. I see a problem. I look for solutions. I look at all solutions from myriad angles and POV's - it really is the only way to find workable solutions. Sometimes perusing a problem from just one POV doesn't cut it. I mean, yeah - those people who have "JUST THEIR OWN TINY LITTLE AGENDAS" to consider often overlook - or frequently can't even comprehend - that there are other considerations besides their own.

And yeah, sometimes a "cure" might hurt for a while, but it's what you have to do for the greater good in the long run.

[Hannah Bell]

118. your "cure" is worse than the disease.

[PFunk]

15. And you're surprised by this?

Look, ever since the Clinton's (both Bill and Hillary) and friends created the DLC the dems have steadily been dumping on their base for years. Now, tired of being dumped on that base is (finally) beginning to slow signs of 'dumping' back. Teachers (and others) now refuse to support a democratic party that seems to be headed by DINO's

[Tarheel_Dem]

17. Then this frees up teachers to vote for whomever the hell they want to, right?

Let's turn it back over to the Republicans, and dump public education all together. Who's with me?

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. How about we support DEMOCRATIC candidates who support public education and unions?

That seems like a lot better idea than voting for Republicans. I have never voted GOP and don't intend to start now. I'll stay home on election day before I do that.

[mzteris]

24. a vote not cast for the Democrat is a vote for the Republican.

I'm sure Sarah will be a much better choice, eh?

[Moochy]

28. Naturally

Everybody who dares to criticize our benevolent leader is a secret Sarah Palin voter!!

[mzteris]

71. nope. Anyone who "stays home" on election day is supporting Republicans. n/t

[Moochy]

75. No, People who VOTE for republicans are supporting republicans

[mzteris]

76. Silence is implied consent. n/t

[Moochy]

78. So the republican who does not vote, does he support the democrat?

[mzteris]

80. Don't you love it when they don't turn out?

I do.

One less vote for "them" is one less vote we have to overcome.

You don't get it, do you?

It's a numbers game.

[Moochy]

82. If it's a number's game then lets quantify and stop dealing in fuzzy math

This will be fun!

Republican stays home
+0 R +0 D

Democrat stays home
+0 R +0 D

Hey it's the same net effect!

Republican votes for Democrat
+0 R +10 D

Oops I think i'm off by a factor of 10 or so on that last one, but it sure explains why DLC types seem to love the republican voters more than the left.

[mzteris]

114. huh?

you really do not comprehend this discussion at all, do you?

[awoke_in_2003]

94. it seems that supporting the democrats...

isn't getting us any better. Different name, same damn party.

[donco6]

31. If she gets in, it'll be your own fault.

Don't even try to lay blame on us for THAT disaster. You'd better rethink your strategy, or you'll be welcoming Ms Disaster into the Oval Office because of your OWN shortsightedness.

[mzteris]

72. I'm very VERY happy withMY vision, thank you.

It's you guys that need to wake up.

[kwassa]

91. so, your logic is that both candidates hate teachers, we are still required to vote for one?

Sorry.

It won't happen. Maybe there will be a third-party candidate available that likes teachers.

[mzteris]

112. Nope. I don't think in reality of the universe does

Obama "hate teachers" OR children.

You know, sometimes kids just can't understand why their parents are BEING SOOOOOOOOOO MEAN!!! But the parent does know a bit more about things than the child. The fact that the child cannot understand isn't the child's fault, per se, they're too focused on themselves and they lack the knowledge and experience to understand, and they aren't concerned about "everyone else" !!! just themselves.

The parent MUST look at the bigger picture and take a lot of things the kids doesn't know into account. And sometimes they have to make the hard decisions that aren't very popular, but it's just the right thing to do. ya know?

[Raineyb]

125. Are you comparing the teachers to children? Could you be more insulting?

Look, clearly you don't want to hear anything that may be remotely critical of Obama or the current condition of the Democratic party. But to go so far as to compare those who disagree with children is really rather disgusting.

[FiveGoodMen]

35. That is the exact thinking that got us into this mess.

[proudohioan]

39. Thank you for being the voice of reason, FGM!

By continually 'lowering the bar', we are simply digging a bigger hole.

IMO, we can't continue to go along with traditionally 'Republican' ideologue just because the candidate has a 'D' associated with his name. I know that I have been guilty of doing just that in the past, but now is the time to start opening our eyes and asking ourselves, "WTF is happening?" and start questioning the issues, not blindly supporting the "Big D's".

We need to start asking ourselves if this is the correct path on which to be heading, and if not, what can I do to change course?

[mzteris]

73. Yes - lettting the bushes take the oval office

was a huge mistake.

The process of trying to fix THAT disaster will take some time. I think Obama can handle it though.

[liberation]

45. Ah, the classic "do this or the puppy gets it" sales pitch...

... the hallmark marketing approach of those who don't really believe that much in the value proposition of their own products.

[laughingliberal]

46. I never thought of it but that's it, exactly!

"the puppy gets it" Lol.

[mzteris]

74. I believe in the Democrats

too bad you guys don't.

[Moochy]

84. Change you have to believe in to see!

[mzteris]

113. again with the cryptic.

:sigh:

care to decipher this one for me? or shall we just call it quits?

Obviously we're having difficulty communicating properly. :(

[Ellen Forradalom]

51. EEEK! Not Saraaaaaaaaah!

You scared me good! I'm gonna be a good little girl now.

[mzteris]

70. or john or any ot them

Or is there one you think is waaaaaaaay cuter than the other?

[Raineyb]

89. Democrats are not ENTITLED to our votes. Until you figure that out you will

never get politicians who won't screw you.

If you enjoy being screwed by all means continue to stick your head in the sand as the Democratic party becomes as cravenly corporate as the Republicans. (As opposed to what they are now which is to make noises as populists while behaving as corporatists) However, withholding support until one gets a decent candidate would send a message to those who are in office to get their shit together for the people rather than for the corporations.

Democrats have to EARN the votes they get. They are not entitled to them merely by claiming to be Democrats.

[mzteris]

115. I'm happy with Obama.

Not with EVERYTHING - that would be silly. NO one can please EVERYONE.

And yeah, I really wanted Hillary, but I'm not unhappy with Obama.

That said, if you're happy letting the republicans be back in charge, I'm sure they'll love to finish the job destoying our country -and the world - that they started when bush was appointed president.


In a PERFECT WORLD, the politician we elect will do just exactly what *I* want them to do.

Every single *I* that voted for them - so how many *I's* in one room will agree 100%of the timeon 100% of the issues on 100%ofthe ways that it can be done?

Hmmmm - so which *I* should the President please?


Yeah, wouldn't it be really great if we could just "poof" those ultra left wing values most of want, but I'm sorry. I hate to break it to you, but we are not the vast majority. I would love to be THE DICTATOR and just MAKE everyone do what I think is the right thing to do, but that's really unrealistic to expect to happen (poof) justlike that. doesn't mean I'm not still going to work for those things. That I'm not going to vote my heart and my conscious. That I'm not going to canvass and GOTV and run carpools to the polls. . .

we can't JUST GIVE UP AND SURRENDER THE PLAYING FIELD to the GD ENEMY! Just because our goto guy didn't pitch a no-friggin'-hitter! We are at least moving away from the precipice of total devastation - and in my book - I'm pretty damn happy about that. Yeah, I wanna climb the damn mountain, but first let's get outta this HOLE we've been put in.

[Raineyb]

124. Your method allows the Democrats to do whatever the hell they want

without consequence. I don't have to vote for any damn body. That includes any politician who on the whole isn't doing anything to help the people. I don't need another damn politician towing the corporate line. I don't care what letter they have after their name. We're supposed to be moving in the right direction. Or to use your example, we're supposed to be moving up to get out of the hole, not digging a deeper one while using rhetoric of moving up the mountain.

Give up? Who said anything about giving up? The Democratic party is not the end all to be all of populist politics. It doesn't even pretend to very well. But they expect your vote because the Republicans are somewhat worse? That's a ridiculous reason to vote for anyone. If the Democrats want MY vote they'll have to do a hell of a lot better than using hostage taking tactics. I'm not interested in the terrorist reasoning to votes which both parties use all too often.

[dflprincess]

98. Don't stay home

show up & cast a blank ballot or vote for a third party. If you don't show up it will be assumed you didn't care enough to vote or weren't paying attention.

I've seen politicians (at least in local races) try to figure out why 1000 people showed up but only a fraction of that voted in their race or abandoned both major parties.

[saracat]

21. I guess you don't know that Duncan doesn't support public education either?

Do you even have a clue what the teachers are angry about? And exactly what do you think The Sec of Ed is doing to support them or public education?

[laughingliberal]

47. Yes. We no longer need Republicans to destroy public education. nt

[donco6]

32. You're doing a great job yourselves.

You certainly don't need our help.

[Jakes Progress]

40. How very backward and myopic.

Are you gay? Suppose the administration called for the national registration of all homosexuals and prohibited them from government jobs. Would you be disappointed and contemplate withholding your vote?

Are you a veteran? Suppose the administration closed all veteran hospitals and eliminated veteran benefits. Would you be disappointed and contemplate withholding your vote?

Are you a woman? Suppose the administration pushed to eliminate equal pay laws and banned abortions? Would you be disappointed and contemplate withholding your vote?

Are you a parent? Suppose the administration eliminated dependent tax deductions and pushed to turn over public schools to private corporations. (Whoops. Done that) Would you be disappointed and contemplate withholding your vote?

The point is whether there is anything you hold dear enough that would make you not view governance as a football game?

[fascisthunter]

49. wow...

I kinda feel we did give up to republicans. Conservative(centrist) Dem's are no different from a republican.

[amborin]

20. K&R

[LooseWilly]

22. I wonder if the loss of a couple of million votes might be a wake up call?

The article mentions 4.6 million teachers. If the AFT and NEA were to do some advertising... and I'd imagine advertisement like this would catch the attention of all the cable news networks (free extra advertising)... I'd imagine they could catch the attention of other unions (especially if Blanche Lincoln manages to win her primary with Party support in the face of AFL-CIO work), as well as a lot of other "dissatisfied customers" (I'm thinking especially of the LGBT community)...

Imagine Rahm Emmanuel sputtering "fucking retards" over and over, as a Green party candidate starts racking up millions of votes.

Nader is easily written off as a fluke. Might be that further evidence is required to be convincing.

What've the teachers and the other unions got to lose? If a Republican is elected, then the Democrats will actually start fighting against these same issues... like they'd've fought against offshore oil drilling if a Republican had proposed it 50-odd days ago. They seem to consistently defend their "base" until they gain power, then they sell their base out.

I suppose the question is whether or not the unions, and the other elements of the betrayed "base", have the stomach to step away from their abusive partner- the Democratic Party.

[mzteris]

25. what have we got to lose?

hmmm - let's review 8 years under Bush...

What do you think this Country - the world - would be like had those @ssholes not been in charge?

No WAR.
Economy NOT in the toilet.
A oil gusher in the Gulf - under President GORE's watch? yeah. right.

So, you don't agree with the policies, though I'm here to tell you that there a whole damn lot of Democrats who do support them - and I don't know where all you guys are - but the extremely UNION MADISON teachers - are still very much in Obama's camp. It does often make me wonder if "all those teachers" some Du'ers refer to really are anti-Obama or is it just a select bunch around here?

[donco6]

33. Yeah, it's just us.

:eyes:

[Raineyb]

95. Probably not. They didn't learn anything from 2000. Apparently when you

piss off enough of your base as to make it possible for an election to be stolen, the remedy is to go right.

:eyes:

That would appear to be the lesson the Democratic party learned.

[Hannah Bell]

120. if the R were in, Ds would have to fight. isn't it ironic?

[DailyGrind51]

23. This is the kind of thing that could help doom a 2nd term.

If a block of voters stays home, the other side wins.

[laughingliberal]

44. I'm really of the belief he is not worried about a 2nd term.

He has remarked several times about being willing to be a one term President. If he is worried about a 2nd, I'm assuming they'll be focused on attracting more right of center voters.

[DailyGrind51]

117. I am having visions of Jimmy Carter's second campaign, and it gives me hives!

[cornermouse]

52. News flash.

The other side already won. Take a look at the policies coming out of this "reach across the aisle" administration. They won. We lost.

[DailyGrind51]

104. Obama's biggest error was not prosecuting members of the Bush Administration.

He received nothing from Republicans in return for his restraint and benevolence.

[LWolf]

26. I hope he is confident that the right wing of the party

will carry him in '12, because he's thrown enough of the rest of us under the bus to lose a lot of votes. The traditional BUT DO YOU WANT <insert Republican> TO WIN????? isn't going to be effective campaign propaganda.

[donco6]

34. I'm throwing it back with "It'll be your own fault if (R) wins."

I've already gone through the blame game when gays were blamed in 2004. Not again.

[Jackpine Radical]

37. It's like ol' Harry Trunman said,

If you run a fake Republican against a real Republican, the real Republican wins every time.

[LWolf]

63. We've all been there repeatedly. I'm not going there again.

I'll throw that back with you.

[Starry Messenger]

38. Amusingly it's the same people saying that

as the ones who say "You knew what you were voting for, so don't complain. If you didn't want this, you shouldn't have voted for it." All we're saying this time is "OK, you're right. I won't".

[LWolf]

64. It's the same game, ad nauseum.

During the campaign season, it's "don't let the big bad wolf win!!! Suck it up and fight for change after the election!"

After the election, it's "Give it time." "Oh, and I suppose you'd prefer the big bad wolf?" And, of course, "You knew what you were voting for, so don't complain."

OK. They're right. I won't.

[Moochy]

79. That is the DU Centrist Screed in a Nutshell

[donco6]

67. Ugh, I hate that one, too.

And I like your comeback.

[Starry Messenger]

86. Seems logical doesn't it?

You'd think a group of people who pride themselves on being "practical" would appreciate the symmetry. Alas. :hi:

[donco6]

87. Completely.

You'd think it might cause them to adjust their strategy. But . . . I doubt it.

[Enthusiast]

36. Good 'Democrats' support the

teacher's union. President Obama is doing many things I don't approve of. I didn't know I voted for a right wing president.

[Politicub]

43. The Dem establishment should have never turned its back on America's teachers

I don't get why the Obama admin is casting them as pariahs. The losers in this scenario will be the next generation of children.

[MadHound]

48. When it comes to education, there is no difference between Bush policies and Obama policies

In fact Obama has done more harm to education than Bush did, and that's saying a lot.

As a teacher myself, I'm going to find it very hard, if not impossible, to pull the lever for Obama come 2012 unless he reverses course and quickly. I know many, many teachers who are feeling the same way. Makes you wonder who Obama thinks he will replace those teachers' votes with?

[Fearless]

50. +1

[Jakes Progress]

66. There is one big difference.

bush could never have gotten this done. If bush had tried the same things that Obama and arne are doing, all of DU and the Democratic party would have risen up in arms.

When it comes to blindly following your party's leader without regard for principle, many in the Democratic party are little different than republicans. It's all a game to most.

[sendero]

101. I won't vote for Obama again...

.. unless he does a sudden 180, and I don't think that is likely.

I prefer my republicans to declare themselves.

[Reader Rabbit]

54. The way things are going right now, there's no hope for teachers.

[Bluesbreaker]

55. It's not teachers vs Democrats, just the corporate DLC Obama types

Read The Death and Life of the Great American School System by Diane Ravitch. It's all there.

The interesting thing is that none of the so-called Obama/Duncan reforms, from charter schools to restructuring schools, have any basis in education research to support their efficacy. More importantly, their track record shows they either do not produce results that are better than the current traditional schools or, in most cases, the reforms produce worse outcomes.

Documentation on Arne Duncan's reforms shows that the corporations, foundations and political power brokers, like Mayor Bloomberg in NY and Daly in Chicago will go to great lengths to misrepresent test scores or just dumb down the tests to make it appear their so-called reforms are working.

I was sold a bill of goods with Obama and I'm now suffering a bad case of buyer's remorse.

[WestSeattle2]

57. Utterly clueless.

[philly_bob]

60. Pull back, Democrats, from the charter school / Arne Duncan dead end! (nt)

[sendero]

61. Why should a small segment...

... of the population, union members, get all kinds of special benefits that everyone else doesn't?

Unions are a good idea only if a substantial percentage of the population belongs to them. They don't.

Unions are over. Obama gets it and I'm not even an Obama supporter, I think he is as big a disappointment as Bush. But this ship has sailed. Get over it. Unions are DONE. That battle has been lost and those of you that don't get it are in for years of disappointment. Save yourself the grief.

[MadHound]

68. Apparently YOU don't get it,

This isn't mainly about unions, this is about the future of our children's and grandchildren's education. Charter schools are, as recent studies have shown, no better, and in most instances, worse for educating our kids than public schools are.

As far as unions go, with your attitude we never would have had unions. In fact part of the reason that ordinary workers are suffering so much in our society is due to the dearth of unions. Yet your only advice is for us to shut up and take it? I think not.

What is needed to fix our education system is money. Higher wages for teachers, adequate or better facilities for all students, oh, and stop letting politicians meddle in a field that they don't have a clue about. This is what works in the top rated school systems of Japan and Finland, it will work here. Sadly though the few, the wealthy see education as one of the last cash cows they can transfer from public to private hands, and they're not going to stop until it is milked dry.

[sendero]

99. I am NOT..

... for charter schools but trust me on this, unions are LEADING THE WAY to their implementation by creating a financial incentive for using them.

[NNN0LHI]

107. Hint: You are talking to someone who takes pride in driving his non-union made Honda

You two have more in common than you realize.

Don

[MadHound]

122. That's a huge part of the problem, summed up in two words, "financial incentive."

This is education, you can't apply the typical capitalist model to education. Kids aren't widgets to be turned out at lowest possible cost.

For years and decades teaching was one of the primary outlets open to women who wanted to pursue a career. This meant that, given a fairly captive labor pool, you could hire fantastic teachers for very little money. When the women's movement opened up other career paths, women took them.

Yet teaching remains undervalued, underpaid, like any other typical "women's work." One of the reasons that we need to raise the pay of teachers dramatically is to attract the best teachers into the profession. I've seen many, many students who wanted to teach, but given that they generally have to take more hours than other disciplines in college, students take a look at the college debt that they would rack up, along with the poor starting pay, and they find some other area to go into.

Unions recognize this, which is one of the reasons they're constantly pushing for better pay. The race to the bottom pay scale that the charter school movement is pushing is doing a huge disservice to students and our society. Blaming this movement on unions is utterly ridiculous, it is the fault of people like you, who apply the capitalist factory model to education.

What is the difference between the top rated public school systems in Japan and Finland, and the system in the US. They actually pay for their education system. Teachers are paid comparably to what doctors are paid here in the US (and have a similar status in their society that doctors have in ours). They pay for top facilities for everybody, rather than relying on local tax revenues. Finally, they don't apply the capitalist model to education, they don't treat their kids like widgets. They put their education decisions in the hands of those who actually have expertise in education rather than in the hands of political cronies or those with political agendas.

Blaming the unions, blaming teachers, sorry, but you're just showing that you're part of the problem, not part of the solution. Financial incentives:eyes:

[saracat]

90. Wow. Anyone who would think that seriously does not understand what it means to be a Democrat.

[Raineyb]

92. THen the solution would be to get MORE people into unions not drag down the

labor market so that we end up in a modern day version of feudalism.

Here's a dollar, go buy yourself a clue.

[sendero]

100. the time that was possible..

... has been passed by at least a decade. Tilt at windmills all you want - unless there is a MASSIVE POLITICAL SEA CHANGE there is ZERO I MEAN ZERO chance of that happening.

[Raineyb]

116. And if working people have NO power whatsoever what good does it do them?

They'll be too busy slaving away at their subsistence level jobs to do anything politically. It's already damn near that now. Selling out unions makes it worse not better.

[skeptical cynic]

96. I'm pleased to say

you don't get it.

The pendulum swings. Labor has been under assault since Reagan lead the Ruling Class Revolt against the New Deal. The level of Working Class suffering will reach a critical point, and workers will organize (through unions) as they did against the original robber barons.

It's cyclical, like a lot of social phenomena. For example, the Democratic Party has shifted to become the left wing or the Republican Party, which will also pass as the fruits of militarism and neoliberalism ripen.

[sendero]

102. I hope you are right..

... I 'm not against unions per se, I just don't see it in the cards.

[skeptical cynic]

106. I think it will be inevitable once we cross some yet-to-be-found

level of suffering.

In another post, I mentioned that when I'm out in the community I try to make what I call "disposable citizens" aware that they are, in fact, not on track to realize the American Dream; they are viewed and treated as disposable parts to make an economic system that depends on a certain percentage of workers being in poverty function; that have-nots are necessary to make the haves' lifestyle possible; that the peasant trying to sneak across the border to find work isn't an adversary, but a fellow bit of fodder for the global economic machine. It's amazing how quickly they figure out what the real problem is.

Like I said, it's a matter of suffering and awareness. Some aren't even aware they are suffering.

We'll get there. I'm afraid it will be ugly, but that will largely be a function of how badly those who control the money and the guns want to keep that control.

[freddie mertz]

97. This is beyond ludicrous. Unions "get the benefits" because they ORGANIZE and fight for them!

This may be stupidest, most reactionary slab of bullshit I have ever read on the internets.

And THAT my friend is saying something.

[sendero]

103. They are losing..

.. the fight at a stunning rate. Denial is not just a river etc.

[bvar22]

108. You are correct.

Unions and the Working Class ARE losing at a stunning rate.
We no longer have a political party that represents our interests.
Looks like we will have to find a Party that will.

We Reformed the Democratic Party
the Old Fashioned Way!

We BOUGHT it!!!!
Hahahahahahahaaha!




"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[freddie mertz]

123. So you would prefer unions to just give up then, eh?

Has nothing to do with the complete opposition to them that you expressed above, does it?

[Octafish]

119. Unions may be the only chance We the People got.

Consider where we are today is largely due to Unions.

With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any other organization that ever existed. They have done more for decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race, for the developing of character in man, than the other association of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909

Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


Learn more at the American Labor Studies Center

[Mojeoux]

121. The Bood Spilled for Unions, was spilled for the rights of every worker in the World.

Who doesn't get this????
Visit the link in the post by Octafish, and learn about the history of Unions.

Unions made America great and Unions have internationally helped spread
the decency of democracy.

Who would want to have a teacher who wasn't aware of the historic advantages of unionization?

[defendandprotect]

62. k

[Citizen Worker]

65. Public schools represent something much bigger than education

There's more to public education than meets the eye. Something I haven't read on any of the postings or in comments. Perhaps, many feel that what I'm about to say is a given and need not be spoken but I would like DUers to consider the idea that what public schools really represent are working class institutions built by and for the working class. Thus privatization represents the dismantling, physically and symbolically, of one of the last remaining working class institutions. Our Labor Unions have all but been destroyed, many of the churches and houses of worship have been taken over by radical fundamentalists leaving public schools the remaining edifice of the working class. Privatization is also a direct attack on democracy itself. How can any society that puts itself forth as a democracy not have a fully funded public education system, including higher education, as the cornerstone upon which all else is built? It can't!

It will take a politician with "democrat" after his/her name to dismantle public education and O'Bush is just the man to do it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

88. +1

[Turk 182]

109. Absolutely!

Here is something I posted a while ago. Nice to see someone who really "gets it":fistbump:

Damn- I’m tired of this teacher bashing by those who know nothing about teaching except they were once in school. Its like me claiming to be an expert on car repair because I drive one.
Let’s be honest. There are great teachers, good teachers, and some bad ones too. The percentage of each is about the same as every other profession on the planet: plumbers, cops, mechanics, butchers, bakers, and candle stick makers. We are people just like you, and most of us want to do a good job. Unfortunately, we usually don’t see the results of our efforts for years, and we have NO Control over the quality of the raw materials we get to work with.
If you build cars, you know very quickly whether it’s a good one or a lemon, and if you get a shipment of bad parts, you can send them back to the manufacturer to be replaced. PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND TEACHERS CAN’T DO THAT. To whom do we send these children back? “Are there no prisons, are there no workhouses”?
PUBLIC EDUCATION and UNION WAGES have provided the upward mobility for generations of immigrants, and created the strong middle class that made this country the great economic engine it was in the twentieth century.
A free public education is necessary for democracy to thrive. Without it, we perpetuate a two class system in which those with money get a good education in elite private schools and become the ruling class, and those without get whatever is deemed “necessary” by the rulers, thus creating a permanent “under“ class: Under- educated, under-paid, and under the heel of the rich and powerful.
We are careening full speed rearward on the road back to the nineteenth century, and unfortunately, this administration is now leading the charge.
I am sick at heart for what is happening to education and workers in what was once OUR country.
I am sorry to say that in Barack Obama we have our very own home grown “Manchurian Candidate”.
Unless something changes drastically, this is one progressive democrat who won’t lift a finger to see him re-elected. AS the Shrub once so eloquently phased it:” Fool me once, shame on ………..uh, can’t be fooled again”.

[Starry Messenger]

110. And a +1 for you too

:thumbsup:

[NNN0LHI]

105. Anyone who takes what the NYT's says at face value is a fool

>>>The corporate media are honest on rare occasions. Take for example a recent article in The New York Times Magazine, titled The Teachers’ Union’s Last Stand (05-23-10). The title itself admits that the nation’s teachers are being targeted for attack by the Obama Administration, through his “Race to the Top” education reform. And although the article has an inherently corporate bias, it contains many revelations that have been otherwise ignored in the mainstream media.<<<

People never learn.

I can see why Bush had that 90+ percent aproval rating now.

Fools to the left of me, jokers to the right.

Don