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I've never met an American I didn't like.

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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 03:00 AM
Original message
I've never met an American I didn't like.
Edited on Wed Jun-02-10 03:17 AM by Zix
This is an awkward thing to post, for me, and I hope people don't take too much offense...

I think we can all agree now that the US is a bit of an anomaly and can be, occasionally, not wishing to be too harsh or judgemental, um, a mite artless, as my granny would say.

It's unfair, really, because every country does dumb things. There's no point pretending that they don't. One of the problems with the US is that it's really huge and wealthy so when it knocks over a vase everyone notices and makes much more of it than when anybody else does.

Thing is, I've known many Americans and they have been, without exception, extraordinary and wonderful people.

Kaija, from Washington DC, is hilarious. She likes brains. She studied psychology for a bit. She also likes bats and butterfly knives. Last time she stayed here in Edinburgh she woke me up at like 9:00am on a Sunday morning by bouncing on my bed so we could go and see her pal's band do a gig in a record store. She giggled when she heard that someone held up a post office down the road with a bread knife. Some time ago my (Scottish) friend Ian had a bit of his ear bitten off by an over-enthusiastic opponent in a bar brawl (who then scarpered pronto) and the only person who had any idea what to do was Kaija.

Ximena, from Texas, works in a mill. Its ridiculous because she's a highly qualified linguist and should really be able to get a much better job. She doesn't let it get her down, though. She likes tango and is studying circus skills. She has this incredible way of communicating that I don't think I've seen in anyone else, she subtly keys you up during conversations to give your best possible analysis of a situation and waits with incredible patience for you to finish what you're saying. She then responds with great sensitivity to exactly what you've said. This sounds like it should be easy, but it often isn't when dealing with sensitive political or philosophical subjects, on which she and I have conversed many times. It's very easy to start sitting on moral high grounds or subconsciously taking on roles that aren't really you. She never does this and makes it easy for other people to avoid it.

Darren is the most amazingly focused person I've ever met. He decided he wanted to open up a shop that sells board-games. So he did. He does the most uniquely elegant and personal take on the "punk" look - he's taken elements of it and blended it with 20s stuff and 50s stuff so that he looks kind of timeless and ... just HIM. You can look at a piece of clothing in a shop and say - yeah that's a Darren shirt. He loves Scotland (where I live) and wants to move here. Hurry, Darren!

Eireann is a beautiful man. He's suave and sophisticated and incredibly handsome. He organises treasure hunts and magic shows and performance spaces for artists that are just starting out. He's wise and gives excellent advice, the kind where you know he's put some effort into thinking about your personal situation rather than just spout whatever sounds good. He holds dinner parties at which he sits patiently listening until just one particular moment arrives in the conversation and he inserts an observation into it and the whole table falls over laughing... He's quiet and clever. He's also a really, REALLY bright cryptographer.

Jessica, with whom I work, is just surpassingly patient I've never met anyone so patient She has to put up with one of the most arrogant consultant physicians in the National Health Service. Recently she asked him if he could identify the patients he was dictating about on his tapes on the front of the envelope the tape was in, like everybody else and he refused, snorting "why have a dog and bark yourself?" which would have had anybody else in our office spitting nails about him at any passer-by, but Jess just laughed it off.

That's a theme, actually, with the Americans I know. They laugh off the crap.

And there's Will, who's the most incredibly talented drummer I've ever met. He doesn't do small talk. He's generous to a fault and well into his third philosophy degree. I recently had to lead part of a festival and was SO GLAD he was there helping, he just drips with common sense and capability and competence. He likes hats. He REALLY likes hats...

All my American friends are incredibly courteous, they have such lovely manners. They all give you your personal space, they are all completely truthful, they are all always perfectly punctual and self-deprecating and they are all also very good looking. Also, they are relatively poor in comparison with the popular image of the wealthy American.

In fact they COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE FURTHER from the "Ugly American" image that we are familiar with (although I must say I have met one or two examples of that breed but must observe that Scotland sees a lot of Americans and from what I can see the breed is actually astonishingly rare...).

So, given that I have no counterexamples to my image of the "real" American as a courteous, witty, patient, warm-hearted and reliable type with excellent taste, I have to assume that you're ALL like that. America is obviously NOT populated by Bruce Willises and Tom Cruises, but by an entirely different and culturally almost invisible people with a very unique and very pleasant character.

So how come the US as a political entity isn't just a giant extrapolation of these qualities?

Why doesn't the US political system represent REAL AMERICANS?
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 04:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Because the giant corporations that run the world....
...don't value the decent, caring people you described.

But thanks for the post, we Americans can use a little stroking today.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. Because the US political system represents
REAL RICH AMERICANS
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MindandSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 04:22 AM
Response to Original message
3. Because the REAL Americans are fed up with the Fox News and
the American Right Wing intolerance and they moved to Scotland???
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flying rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. you must just attract
the good ones. :shrug:
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. That's quite a compliment

But I don't think I'm as lovely as all THAT...
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
5. Hell, I never met an Iranian I didn't like.
My work brought me into contact with a number of Iranian IT-type people. Every single one was smart, kind, and merry. Why doesn't the Iranian political system represent REAL IRANIANS?
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Online Counterexample no. 1

Many thanks
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. You obviously never met a couple of my former coworkers...
:P
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Yeah but YOU'RE not like them, are you?

:D
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you. That is so touching and really hits on the macrocosm/microcosm theme
American people can often be the most wonderful human beings, not necessarily better than other nation's peoples but not worse either. But on the macrocosm, we suck and we are so big and powerful that we suck big and powerfully. We, in the macrocosm, are so provincial as to seem stupid and certainly disinterested in the rest of the world. So, in the macrocosm, we elect the politicians we deserve.

In the microcosm, human beings can and have been the most amazing species this earth has ever hosted. In the macrocosm, we are one of Earth's biggest mistakes, (not talking Americans here, talking world species human), showing willful contempt for the rest of the species and for many in our own species. We behave like a cancer and while the Geologic Earth (Gaia, as I chose to call her) won't be terribly hurt, so much of the life on this earth is being destroyed by this strange, over-entitled species.

I take care of premature babies as my living, and my calling, so I get the microcosm completely. These little guys and gals have full on personalities and well formed souls at an age that they should still be in the womb. They are the most amazing creatures I've ever been honored to know and to nurture. Now, stepping back into the macrocosm, we must find a radically new relationship with this Earth, one that doesn't include rape, murder, terror and plunder. If we cannot, we must end. And I trust the Earth to remove us if we don't course correct really, really fast. I'll admit, I don't think of the macrocosm when I'm holding one of my charges. I can't because I will cry, which wouldn't do a damn thing for my job security and it might scare my wee charge. I won't have that.
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. You are most welcome

I'm of the opinion that there's a nasty undercurrent of self-loathing developing among Americans. It's at least as unhealthy as the arrogance that a small proportion of people have foisted on the world.

I hope very much that the Earth does NOT remove you or any of your premature babies...
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
30. I'll admit to quite a bit of self loathing (being a human)
I don't want to be a part of an empire anymore. Can we stop the ride so I can get off?
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. Give us your postal address. I'm sure lots of us would like to mail some of our
acquaintances to you. We'd be happy to be rid of them, and they'd be happy to be rid of us
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sixmile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. You've obviously never seen this:
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/
Though I'm sure Scotland has an embarrassment or two...
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. .
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Online counterexample no. 2
Many thanks
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. For the record, I've encountered many selfish, ignorant, superficial, A-Hole americans
... and suspect that those types are also likely found in just about any other Westernized country.

No Flag Waver, I ;)
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Doubtless, Echo, but that's not really the main thrust of my post....

I think the rest of you aren't getting enough attention. It's ironic that an attempt to make this happen on my behalf has largely been hijacked by examples of the kind of American I hope I would normally admire to further distance themselves from the Americans they don't like.

Speaking personally, I think it's unhealthy to focus solely on the negative aspects of anything's character, a nation, a person, an idea, anything. I think eventually it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, although obviously I cannot *demonstrate* that this is so...
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I take George Carlin's approach. He was only interested in pointing out what was wrong...
... realizing that the chance of a substantial enough percentage of human beings ever coming together to help facilitate change for the betterment of all was, well, slim to none.

Scratch any cynic, and you'll find a disappointed idealist ... or, one man's cynicism is another's realism.
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #22
34. That's just giving up!

The world has in fact seen many improvements in it's personality over the years...

In my own experience cynics are trying to get other people to do the work of proving them wrong...
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Or any country.
Assholes aren't just a western trait.

Assholes, unfortunately are universal.
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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. Want my ex-wife's address?
We can fix perception that for you.
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Online counterexample no. 3

You know what? You're starting to convince me!
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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
20. Because American society is designed to empower the selfish, mean-spirited assholes...
The majority of Americans get nothing from the system.
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. They don't know, do they? nt
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
23. Because the media only..
focuses on people like the TEABAGGERS whom they consider REAL AMERICANS..
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
24. You have been extremely lucky in your American encounters
But you're right: most members of just about any group are usually pretty decent people, but polities, mobs, and committees generally take on the worst aspects of their members. It's one of the mysteries of human behavior...
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
26. And I had a fun time when I visited Scotland.
But seriously, our political system used to be a great extrapolation of all that but in the last 30 years we've had problems with religions, corporations, the market, health-care and warfare. I think we're turning a corner (slowly) but I think we're getting there.

I've met enough great people and assholes from other countries to realize that national stereotypes are bullshit.

I live in a college town and there are people from every corner of the globe here. They may not love the American government but they love the country and the people.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
27. Attend a teabagger rally and your opinion will change really fast!
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Oh, nonsense! They're hardly REPRESENTATIVE, are they?

In a country with 300 million people a couple million morons is hardly a problem...

...at least it SHOULDN'T be...
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. My hometown is composed of about 60% teabaggers
On the surface, they can be friendly all right, just don't try talking politics or religion with them if you are of a different persuasion.
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Well, I don't know what to say to that.

I think it's possible to discuss politics with such people as long as you're careful and don't take on subconscious roles.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #28
47. It depends on the region. In the south or the plains states, 'baggers are probably in the majority.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
49. What makes you think YOUR tiny "N" is a representative sample?
Did you pay attention the last few national election cycles?
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. The continuity of character.

It's not just that they were decent people, they were all decent in the same kind of way.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
29. I have one huge, gaping criticism
what the HELL is wrong with Bruce Willis???

I mean, c'mon. Die Hard. The Fifth Element. !!!


One of my friends, who is finishing her masters in Slavic Studies and Public Policy, has spent several semesters in Moscow. She is NOT patriotic; far from it. But she has found herself defending America quite often; there are some ridiculous stereotypes concerning our behavior. It's fascinating, really; I'm so used to confronting and combating our stereotypes of other nations and ethnicities, that it's odd to realize that the same thing happens to us in other places. I think that the fundamental truth about Americans (and indeed, most people in general) is that people are pretty much nice, polite, people face-to-face. It's only when you're a faceless member of an "other," or only coming into contact through contentious issues, that there is real vitriol.

And, of course, some people really are just assholes.
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. Well, see, he does seem to be sort of a stand-in for the average American

And, to be fair, he has done several movies that are in fact incredibly good like 12 Monkeys. He can act.

It's just that when he's presented as "Average American Joe" his range is incredibly narrow and wisecracking and annoying and nothing like any Americans that I've actually met.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. true
he's the "lone wolf" archetype that action movies love. It's funny how the "average joe" in a movie is not really average; he's what movie producers think the average joe WANTS to be. Sometimes they're right; most of the time, they're wrong. And right there is the HUGE problem. Often, the only contact people have with Americans is through movies and TV. I have known people who came to the US honestly expecting everyone to be armed.

Watching a LOT of British and Irish television, I have identified a few "Americans"

1. Californian

2. New Englander

3. Cowboy

4. New Yorker, of Italian ancestry

Almost exclusively, those are the Americans I see portrayed in non-American media. Makes you realize the archetypes we have of, say, British people. Either a 50's banker-type, wearing a bowler hat, or a cockney working class guy from the 1920's. It's the problem of living so damn far away from each other. Even within America, we have that problem; every time someone who has never left Southern California portrays those of us from the midwest as overall-wearing semi-literate farm laborers, or people from the south as inbred hicks, I want to punch someone. The media is run by people who only experience a small slice of American culture, even as Americans, and make the rest up as they wish.

Hopefully that wasn't too rambling :D
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political_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
32. The media promotion of what constitutes "American Culture" only projects the "typical American".
Edited on Thu Jun-03-10 12:37 AM by political_Dem
And unfortunately, that depiction is a "white-bread", "clean-cut", "money conscious" and "upper-middle class" individual instilled with the full properties and rights afforded to white privilege. Because, only that type of person will be pictured as someone "descriptive" in the minds as the "typical American".

To a person of color like myself, I've always been bombarded with images of this "fictitious American" throughout my life. The countless commercials, stump speeches by politicians, and pontifications from intellectuals and message gate-keepers in this society has always pronounced a vision of a "typical American" to be someone that doesn't look like me.


In that vein, there are two ways to explain this:

1)When people from the dominant culture talk about groups of color dropping their socialized norms to assimilate and be just "Americans", it is forgotten about the diversity that has made this country great.

So, when people start discussing what is a "typical American", it almost deals with shedding what makes a person unique and distinctive to become bland in their behaviors and manners when being a part of U.S. mainstream society.

So, to me there is no such thing as a "typical American". To give in to such blasé and cynical ideals is to lose yourself and your independence to be what the conformists want: botoxed, carbon-copied, bland, Madison Avenue driven and silenced to be like "everyone else".

Instead, I rather be an "American original". That has more fire and spice in my book.

2)To make a long story short, American politics has never been about appealing to "American originals". It has always wanted to focus on constructing this "Frankenstein's monster" of what is supposed to be the United States mainstream. Up until recently, politicians have always had to fall in line to this ideal, losing themselves and their principles to access power. Instead of dealing with the issues that affect "real Americans", much time is wasted on trying to please this mythical bunch of citizens built up through the years of corporatism and commercialization.

Let's face it: being an "American original" has never gotten anyone anywhere in this society. It is only when they become blond(e) while putting the "blue-contacts" in, they are treated with any national significance. Closely pay attention to the cosmetic transformation of prominent politicians to see this very point.
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. It seems to me that it ought to be possible to address these problems.

Given that what we're talking about here is perception, which is intangible and can be changed.

Many thanks for your post...
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political_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. You are quite welcome. :)
I'd agree about changing perceptions, except for one thing: I think the corporatism and commercialization in this country is too entrenched to go about a sea change. The only thing consumers (and viewers, respectively) can do is to learn how to deconstruct and critically analyze the images fed to us. On this end, we become aware as individuals in order to "speak back" to the politicians and Madison Avenue and say we don't want to be pigeon-holed in this fashion anymore.

Change is slow, but necessary when wanting to stop the stagnant and rather depreciating affects of what commerical culture does to us as individuals and as citizens of this country.

Thank you for giving me a lot of food for thought in regards to this issue. This topic is of dire importance due to the ubiquitous nature of the media in today's climate.:thumbsup:
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
33. I worry that I wouldn't qualify for such approbation based on my behavior overseas.
I visited the British Isles several times in the early '90's. Loved it. All of it. I didn't act like an "Ugly American", but I was a bit of a bumbler. I acted like a stereotypical American, loud, exuberant, extroverted (even though I'm really not; I think I was just excited to be there...). Never rude, at least not deliberately. And I tried to be a good guest everywhere I went.

I winced when I read your descriptions of your American friends, Zix. I was not nearly that admirable a person back then. But I'm glad you have a good impression of us. Unlike a lot of right-wingers over here, I actually do care what the rest of the world thinks of us...
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. There's nothing WRONG with being loud, exuberant and extroverted!

It's only bad if it gets in other peoples' way! If you haven't belittled or inconvenienced anyone why should they complain?

Plenty of British people are very loud INDEED.
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JeffersonChick Donating Member (338 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
39. Thanks for giving me something positive to read!
Thank you so much for taking the time to write all that! I've been sitting here feeling terrible about humanity with all that's going on.

You seem to have really cool friends! I'd love to meet them. :toast:
There's not much coolness going on in Arizona, unfortunately.
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 04:45 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. No Probs!

Maybe the solution is to leave...
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RFKHumphreyObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
42. As an Aussie
I visited the United States almost seven years ago. 99.99999% of the people I met there were the warmest, nicest, sweetest, most generous and most wonderful people I have ever met in my life. People from all walks of life and from all races that I met -from my relative's rich businessman friend to the homeless people I met in Indiana to the taxi drivers I met in New York-were all inspirational, beautiful people who really enriched my American experience. I cannot adequately put into words how much I loved meeting people in America and their warmth and friendliness is really second to none in all the countries I have visited. And don't even get me started on the DU'ers I met and who opened up their homes to me and gave me so much of their hospitality:loveya: :yourock:

The same goes for Americans whom I have met overseas -and I have encountered several from my trips all around the globe. I have only known two people who could have met the stereotype of the ugly American -and even then it was just those two members of that family (the other member of the family in question was just the nicest, sweetest guy you could imagine). All the Americans expats or tourists I have met have been unfailingly courteous, polite, respectful of others and eager to help out when someone is in need

And the stereotype of Americans being ignorant and unwilling to learn about other people and cultures -almost all the Americans I met were interested in other countries and other people and in fact many of them complained to me about the fact that the MSM in America didn't give them enough information about what was going on in the world. Indeed, while I was there, I found the MSM as a whole so terrible at giving out proper information and news that I had to tune into the BBC World Service to get my latest news updates. All I kept hearing about on the MSM there were big name celebrities and what was happening to them. I did seriously wonder while I was there whether the MSM in the US has a vested interest in keeping people so misinformed and ignorant about what was happening around them

America is an absolutely breathtakingly beautiful country and the people who live in it are really amazing and inspiring. I think President Obama and people like Martin Luther King, Paul Wellstone, JFK and RFK and the like represent the true potential of what America has to offer and, considering the impact that they have had in changing the world for the better, that truly says something about what America is like at its best. Sadly, though, I was in America when * in his prime and I kept thinking that such a beautiful country and such wonderful people didn't deserve to have the government and the media that it did. With Obama's election, my impression of the government has changed for the better but I look at the teabaggers and the rabid Republicans and the right wing crazies and the MSM and I still think that the American people deserve a lot better than what they are getting
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
44. Then You Don't Know Enough Americans
Because, i have for my whole life, and i've met LOTS of americans i didn't like.
GAC
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
45. To answer your question with my best guess... Real Americans never leave the States...
And those are the Real Americans that the political system represents. The overwhelming majority that don't even have passports, never leave the country (because they've learned that other countries are dirty and have crooked cops that will throw you in jail if you don't have bribe money), and many Real Americans would have a hard time finding Canada on a globe.

Those of us that get out of the country usually have a little more intellectual curiosity, willingness to learn, and often pick up strange bits of knowledge along the way. Knowledge that doesn't help us find jobs and sometimes even makes it harder to find jobs here in the States (hence the quality of shrugging off the crap you mention of those you've met... the ones that go abroad and step off the usual backpacking circuits tend to be acclimated to dealing with stupidity and bullshit).

There seems to be a huge mass of voters that are scared, ignorant, and scared of the possibility of learning how ignorant they are... so they vote according to their ignorance, as their fathers and mothers before them have done. And Gawd help you if you try to point out to them that they don't know something... because if they don't know it (and this includes all foreign languages) then it isn't worth knowing anyway... and who the fuck do you think you are trying to tell them what's what? (enter conspiracies about minorities, women, gays, communists, the UN... somebody looking to undermine things that have been working just fine up until now...)

And, of course, there are always the assholes. But they're pretty much everywhere...
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
46. It's the other way round - travellers are not a representative sample of Americans.
I've likewise liked the large majority of the Americans I've met in the UK. In come to that, people from any other country one meets in the UK are disproportionately likely to be friendly, outgoing, intelligent, motivated and so on, because people like that are more likely to travel to another country and meet people there.

I think the situation may be even more marked in the case of Americans who travel, though - nearly all the Americans you meet outside the US are from either one of the coasts or one of the more liberal cities. Conservative Americans are much less likely to travel, and they're the ones who vote Republican.

If having lived abroad for a couple of years was made a requirement for voting, I think most countries would benefit a good deal, but America probably significantly more than most.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
48. I'm a friendly traveller, too---travellers tend not to be closed-minded. Get it now?
Edited on Thu Jun-03-10 06:27 AM by WinkyDink
I think those of us AMERICANS posting about hateful other AMERICANS should be given some credence, don't you?
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Why is it so important to you to focus on Americans you don't like?
Edited on Thu Jun-03-10 12:11 PM by Zix
Why do you have so little interest in Americans that you DO like and finding a voice for THEM?
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
52. I notice you don't mention having met any americans in their habitat.
Thank you for your compliment, but I think you'll admit that your sample is subject to selection bias.

Maybe the good americans all go to England.
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