A question for "centrist" Dems

[socialist_n_TN]

Given a choice between a leftist Democrat and a bat shit crazy Teabagger Republican, who would you vote for? Or would you sit out the election?

I bring this question to the board only in curiosity. Your opinions are your own, as is your vote. But this type of choice is what leftists have faced for 30 years now. And I've sucked it up and voted for "centrist" Democrats because they were better than the alternative AND more electable. But because the primary season has brought MORE left leaning Dems to prominence along with more Teabagger Republicans, it seems to me that this might be your choices in future elections. What will you do?

[Captain Hilts]

1. It's those further to the Left that are more likely to sit out elections than more centrist

Dems.

Just sayin'.

10 years in polling.

Look at VA and NJ in 2009.

Look at the US in 2004. Look at all those folks who didn't lift a finger for Kerry. Every time folks celebrated here all the 'first time' voters registering to vote for Obama stung, because if a few had shown up to vote for Kerry, we could have avoided a lot of deaths and trouble. But, nooo...

[LoZoccolo]

4. Or look at 2000. n/t

[MineralMan]

6. Indeed. Who was it voting for Nader? The Centrists?

I don't believe so.

[Captain Hilts]

7. Yes all the 'there's no difference between the parties' folks. Yes. nt

[Greyhound]

10. What a typical non-answer to a straightforward question.

Is the non-answer itself an answer?

[Captain Hilts]

11. It's a strawman. No Democrat would vote for a teabagger. Especially those posting here.

The question also makes an incorrect assumption.

[sandnsea]

15. I could possibly sit an election out

There are a few far left people who I would never vote for. The two Cindys come to mind.

[Captain Hilts]

17. Well, yeah, I'm with you there on those two! It really depends on the circumstances. nt

[socialist_n_TN]

16. And what incorrect assumption would that be Captin'?

OK you wouldn't vote for a Teabagger. Would you sit the election out then? It IS a simple question and the type of question that I've faced in every election for the last 30 years.

[Captain Hilts]

18. I prefer to vote for lefty candidates over wishy washy centrists. nt

[sandnsea]

27. My lefty DeFazio can be disappointing

He can get on the local law and order bandwagon as fast as any centrist. He sometimes plays off the extremes so he can be against a bill that both hate, when he knows the center will pass it anyway. He will not get involved in gun issues at all and helped craft that terrible Healthy Forest compromise. There's no perfect politician.

[Captain Hilts]

43. Mukulski has had several very disappointing votes lately. nt

[Greyhound]

24. A strawman requires an argument. There is none here and there is no bias,

just a simple question that you will not answer. What office are you running for?
:rofl:

[Raineyb]

40. That's an erroneous assumption. There are plenty who apparently don't have all that much

trouble with the tea-bagging folk. Or the Rand Pauls of the world for that matter.

[Captain Hilts]

42. Most REPUBLICANS think the teabaggers are crazy!!

Centrist Dems do not vote for them. Most Republicans do not vote for them.

Just because they're on TV a lot, don't think they're winning over Dems.

[socialist_n_TN]

12. OK does that mean you'd vote for the leftist?

BTW having studied history all my life, I agree that the Left ALWAYS splits into factions. Bolsheviks, Mensheviks, Socialists, Social Democrats, Anarchists, etc. EVERYBODY has a "purity" test. That's the main reason the left has such a hard time gaining power.

[Captain Hilts]

14. I'd PREFER to do so!

ER: That Captain Hilts is such a dear...

[patrice]

22. Plus what happened to us Deanocrats.

[readmoreoften]

38. Red herring. Answer the question.

[TheKentuckian]

58. Conservative Democrats don't sit out, they vote Repuke. See RayGun Republican

also see Bush, George W.

[LoZoccolo]

2. I would vote for the leftist Democrat. n/t

[MineralMan]

3. We'd vote for the Democrat,

Just as we always do. Sometimes, we vote for centrist Democrats, even though we'd prefer progressive ones. We do NOT vote for Republicans of any leaning. I hope that helps.

For the record, I'm a philosophical socialist, but always vote for for the Democrat in any race. I do not vote for third party candidates under any circumstances, unless they have a very good chance of winning and are socialists (a very, very rare situation). To do so is to vote for the Republican.

[socialist_n_TN]

9. Sounds like me MM

I call myself a pragmatic socialist. Notice nothing's capitalized. :) Pragmatic including the part about third parties. Small "s" socialist because I don't belong to any "Socialist" party although I flirted with joining the SWP in my younger days.

[HughMoran]

5. I'd vote for Rodan

[Tony_FLADEM]

8. I would vote for the leftist Democrat

I think centrist Democrats and those more to the left share the same goals, they just have a different means of achieving them. The Democrats could benefit if they moved to the center on fiscal issues. They could get all the moderate Republicans and independents turned off by the teabaggers.

[TheKentuckian]

59. "Centrist" fiscal policy is what is killing this party now

What good for the American citizen would possibly come of moving even further to the right on financial issues? Have you seen what that toxic bullshit has done to this country over the last 30-40 years????

There is no benefit of moving to the right fiscally, the thought is absurd in the face of the level of "success" of the corporate taint licking policies Unka Ronnie etched into stone for us. Is there some failed policy that doesn't seem attractive?

[Tony_FLADEM]

61. So the country should continue running 1.5 trillion deficits every year?

I know most of the deficit is because of policies the Republicans put into place, but the Democrats are in charge and will continue to be blamed. The country needs to make some tough decisions on the spending issue. If the Democrats brought down the deficit they would wipe out the Republicans politically. There would be no reason to vote Republican.

[socialist_n_TN]

62. OK. Tough budget decisions

Get out of the wars and cut the DoD budget by 50%. Raise taxes on the wealthy to pre Reagan levels. There's two tough decisions there. If the corporatists don't like it they can move to the free market Paradise of Somolia.

[sandnsea]

Leftist in what sense?

Cynthia McKinney leftist? Or Pete DeFazio "leftist"?

[Captain Hilts]

19. You got the two 'Cindy's right. nt

[socialist_n_TN]

20. REAL leftist. Although I myself have

held my nose and voted for Dems who were FAR to the right of me BECAUSE THEY WERE THE BEST OPTION AVAILABLE.

As I said in the OP, that's been MY challenge for the last 30 years. I want to know what will happen when the shoe is on the other foot, so to speak.

[sandnsea]

23. To keep a teabagger out of office, I'd vote for the leftist

If it were a leftist on the order of a European socialist, whoopee!! Unfortunately nobody around here seems to be able to articulate their political agenda. All I ever get is Castro and Chavez and that's a big no thank you.

[socialist_n_TN]

25. Well I'd vote for a Castro or Chavez

rather than the Teabagger, but that's just me. I'm NOT a centrist.

What we'd probably get in this country though WOULD be the European socialist or the Bernie Sanders type (actually that's probably the same type of socialist). A BIG improvement over just about ALL of the Dems who are running today even the more progressive ones.

[backwoodsbob]

13. I would take the far left dem every time

and I am without doubt what people here would consider a centrist

[patrice]

21. I am a Democratic Socialist, so I don't know if that qualifies me as a centrist, though I do support

President Obama.

I feel very strongly about how I understand what is going on, so I favor the Left by seeking to integrate it into whatever is going on. I think I am somewhat of a centrist in that I do not see integration happening by means of wholesale overt destruction of ALL opposition. Those who are WRONG need to CHANGE, but that is not going to happen through the wrong kind of force.

My vote is determined by how the candidate:issues add up, with some weight given to Leftist factors/issues, in the weeks before an election.

[dmallind]

26. Oh the leftist Dem absolutely, Not even close

I would not want a Congress full of DSA types but I would much rather have some of them than Republicans. Realpolitik makes this an easy call. Even if you put a more mainstream or even slightly moderate Republican (if there are any anymore) against the leftist Dem, it's still a caucusing and committee numbers issue. Even if on an imaginary 1-10 scale left to right and you had a 1 rated leftist and a 6 rated Republican compared to my 4 rated vote I'd go for the 1 to avoid the balance of power shifting to the 5+ side, because if Republicans get power it won't be the 6s who will call the shots - hasn't been since Rockefeller. A vote for the 6 puts the 10s closer to being in charge. I am much more comfortable with the chance of a few 1s and 2s getting seats and maybe being a bit of an obstacle than I am risking the 10s becoming stronger.

[Fire1]

28. What will I do? Not vote. n/t

[socialist_n_TN]

29. OK. Anybody else in the "not vote" category?

nfm

[Sebastian Doyle]

33. Thanks for the honest answer

Now, based on your own response, maybe you'll understand why 50% of voters don't even bother to show up when their only "choices" are an extreme right wing corporatist, and a "center right" DLC corporatist.

[socialist_n_TN]

36. BINGO! We have a winner

Although I DO vote even if I have to hold my nose to do so.

[dmallind]

41. So where do you think those 50% are on the spectrum?

If they are such a plurality why isn't there a party for them? If they are on the left why do the DSA NUP Greens Socialists and Communists together add up to less than 1/10 of that 50%? If they are on the ideological right why the same for the Taxpayers party, Constitution Party, Libertarians and so on? If they are in the middle why don't they want to vote for a centrist Dem? Or even a mainstream Republican non-teabagger?

The only connection between the two choices you list, obviously biased as the descriptions were, was "corporatist". Why do parties and candidates who speak up for action against business and capitalism do so terribly if 50% want something other than a "corporatist"?

[William Z. Foster]

46. there isn't any spectrum

Everything on this supposed imaginary "spectrum" is an illusion. It is a conceptual trick for controlling people's thinking and suppressing intelligent discussion about politics.

Only people who are observing it all from outside of the struggle can believe in fairy tales about spectrums. Those aloof outside observers are, by definition, shilling for the rulers.

[dmallind]

57. Ermm....sure. OK. ........ Dude.NT

[stray cat]

30. How about a moderate repub versus a crazy left wing dem?

or don't they exist?

[socialist_n_TN]

31. Moderate Republicans don't exist anymore

And crazy left wing Dems are becoming more and more mainstream. But remember I'm NOT a centrist.

[readmoreoften]

39. So you would vote for a moderate Republican over a "crazy left wing Dem"?

[Sgent]

47. Yep

I'd vote for a moderate republican (say the gubenator or Brown) vs. a Cynthia on any day that ends in y.

[socialist_n_TN]

52. SCOTT Brown??????????

Are you SURE this is the right board for you? :)

[stray cat]

32. Do you prefer a moderate dem or a crazy right wing Repub?

at least centrists can choose from the lesser of two evils on either side whereas you have to choose to vote for a moderate who you disagree with or a rabid repub who you really disagree with - thats the problem on being at the extremes.

[socialist_n_TN]

34. I've already answered that SEVERAL times

Including in the OP. Despite being an ideological socialist, I've voted in EVERY election since I was old enough to vote and I ALWAYS vote for the more leftist candidate. For the last 30 years the more left candidate has, MOST OF THE TIME, been FAR to the right of where I am ideologically, but if s/he's the best available, that's who I vote for. As I said, I'm interested in what "centrist" Dems will do when faced with the same conundrum I've faced for 30 years.

In your scenario, I'd vote for the moderate Dem.

[Bluenorthwest]

54. When a person answers a question with another question

that is always because they wish to avoid the answer.

[Jennicut]

35. What centrist would vote for a teabagger? I think teabaggers turn off the middle

as much as the left.

[xchrom]

37. i think i've been working toward an internal change since 00 --

even at this late date an idiot brought up nader and the 00 election.
never bothering to qualify that gore won and ballots were purposely fucked and at least one candidate admitting that he believed votes cast for him were meant for gore.

'centrists' - by their description here - are an impossible crew - wanting only to advance the causes of the powerful few rather than work for the country's best interest. for me they are the definition of irrational.
they have a mystical faith in incremental-ism and political 'superstars' that bears little resemblance to reality.

being Leftist is about being the most rational for me -- when something needs change it needs to supported by facts, logic and experience.
centrists only grow corrupt bureaucracies and increasingly rule laden agencies with no review process in in place. i mean why would centrists do that - that ineffectualness goes to 'allies' after all.

ive been a consistent voter - almost always for democratic party people -- some socialists and some greens.

but ive been a member of and worked for democratic candidates the most.

i may change that to independent -- vote only for select candidates and leave the rest behind.

ive developed a loathing for centrists that just wont support voting for just anyone any more.

[slackmaster]

44. I'd write in my mom

I can't abide an extremist.

Extremists of all types should be taken out and shot.

[glitch]

51. How extreme.

Here's this little droll icon ;) to help with your delivery.

[guardian]

55. I like your sense of humor. n/t

[Peacetrain]

45. By that question, are you equating centerist Democrats with the Teaparty People?

[socialist_n_TN]

48. No, I just have been told by the Dem "establishment"

for the last 30 years that we've got to move right to win elections in this "center/right" country and I've bought it and did it, even when I felt like taking a Lysol shower afterward. I think that this center/right country stuff is ending. We're moving leftward as a country which means farther and farther leftist candidates for the Dems. The reaction is also moving RIGHTWARD which means farther and farther rightist candidates as Republicans.

As I stated in my OP, it's looking like this is going to be the choices for centrist Dems (all centrists for that matter although there are VERY few centrist Republicans nowdays) in the near term future and I want to know if they'll take one for the team like I'VE had to do for the last 30 years. The primaries are showing us that the Left is growing in the Democratic primaries and the bat shit crazy teabaggers are growing in the Republican primaries. Ergo, the choices you'll be facing in the general is between a leftist Dem and a teabagger Republican. Which way do you go?

[Peacetrain]

49. Thanks..just wanted to make sure I was not misreading your op

:hi:

[demosincebirth]

50. So far, any dem has been better that any repub

[Bluenorthwest]

53. I've just read this thread and it is amazing how many answered

with a question, and avoided responding. I'm no centrist, so I've never voted for a Republican and never would. Many here can not, apparently, say the same thing.

[socialist_n_TN]

56. Yep. Never voted for a Republican

and I think I can safely say I never will. I'd sit out an election between a Stalinist and a teabagger, but that would be it. I'd STILL not vote for the teabagger even against the Stalinist.

[TheKentuckian]

60. Give them Mittens or a Groponator and you got a hell of a horse race

"Centrist" Democrats are all about some voodoo economics and they'll go with whoever supplies their supply side secular religion without scaring them too much with heated rhetoric or positions outside the common beltway wisdom.

A "Centrist" is just an conservative that isn't big on being a bigot or isn't a fundie.

[socialist_n_TN]

64. You know Kentuck..............

I think you're on to something there. A conservative that isn't a bigot or fundie.

But that's what it's boiling down to IMO. IF the trends keep going more and more left for the Democrats and more and more right for the Republicans these non bigoted/non fundie conservatives WILL face that choice. Left winger or Teabagger. Hence my OP. I KNOW what I've done for the last 30 years. What will they do?

[aikoaiko]

63. As a centrist you pose an easy question for me. Answer: leftist Democrat

I may be left of center, but I'm a Democrat first and foremost.