22 Countries Ban Gays in the Military

[Emit]

Around The World



They are: Cuba, China, Egypt, Greece, Iran, Jamaica, Mexico, Nigeria, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Somalia, South Korea, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Uganda, United States, Venezuela, and Yemen.

(via: Esquire)

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2010/05/around-world.html

From the Esquire link:

How America's Stance on 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' and the Death Penalty Stacks Up Against the World
May 27, 2010

Perhaps it's not entirely surprising that countries that ban gays from serving in the military also tend to embrace the death penalty. And a look at how America's no-gays-in-the-military/pro-capital punishment position stacks up against the rest of the world reveals some surprising bedfellows — we're in full agreement with Iran, China, and North Korea on these two fronts. But if "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" were to change, only one other country would have the same stance on these issues.

Bet you'll never guess who it is...

Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/dont-ask-dont-tell-statistics-052710#ixzz0pHMalArF

[rockymountaindem]

1. Venezuela?

What gives, Chavez?

[MODem75]

3. Catholicism.

[Swede]

4. Wrong.

It's surrounded by Catholic majority countries.

[Toucano]

14. It's not "catholicism", but it is the Catholic Church.

The faith of individuals or even the majority isn't the culprit.

But the power and influence of the church is.

As you note, there are catholic majorities throughout Latin America. That doesn't automatically speak to how influential the church is over the legislature.

The faith and the church are actually two different things.

The church opposed (and opposes) legal protection of gays and lesbians in every one of those surrounding countries. It just didn't have sufficient influence over the legislature to get it's way.

In the case of Venezuela, it's more about the people who surround Chavez than Chavez himself or the church's influence.

[EFerrari]

5. There is a Reformed Catholic Church in Venezuela that welcomes gay cogregants

and the government sends representatives to pride every year.

But there is still work to do. In 2007, iirc, universal rights were in a referendum that was very, very narrowly defeated.

There's still work to do, Chavez or no Chavez.

[Maru Kitteh]

27. well then, that excuses everything

[EFerrari]

29. What excuses everything?

[izquierdista]

2. I can understand Greece

They probably don't want to have the burden of another conqueror taking over the known world.

[xchrom]

7. Might get th out of the debt their. -- well that's til the those

Tacky bitches at the IMF come in and repo's
the fabulous military uniforms.

[Ex Lurker]

13. history geek nitpick

Alexander was a Macedonian.

[Enthusiast]

28. But wasn't Macedonia

culturally Greek at the time? Seems to me it was. Alexander the Great "Hellenized" the world by spreading Greek culture through conquest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenized

[Ex Lurker]

33. Yes. Like I said, it was a nitpick :) n/t

[dsc]

6. There is no way that can be right

There are only two options for gays in the military (either allow or not). Thus of the 71 countries that execute people they either must allow or not allow gays in their militaries. Since 17 don't, then 54 do, not 1.

[Hippo_Tron]

21. If you got less technical, I imagine the picture would be rather the same

Democracies that respect human rights generally allow gays to serve openly in the military. Autocracies with crap human rights records tend to not allow gays in the military. The United States and South Korea and I'll throw in Venezuela (because I don't want to debate whether or not Venezuela is a democracy that respects human rights) are the exceptions.

[DaveinJapan]

8. Not understanding that "only one other country" part...

It claims Israel executes people but allows gays in the military. But Japan (for example) is not listed as a country which bans gays in the military. And they certainly execute people.

So, it seems off to me (unless the assumption is that even though they don't specifically "ban" gays by decree, it is nontheless disallowed, which I could certainly believe).

[Drunken Irishman]

9. To be fair, there are no gays in Iran...

So I don't see how they could serve in the military.

;)

[FBI_Un_Sub]

10. Not exactly states

we should look to as role models. They are "failed states" IMHO.

[Toucano]

11. South Korea and China are failed states?

I agree that the majority of that list are failed states, and support the idea that the concept of equality those countries exhibit is nothing to emulate.

But South Korea and China are not failed states.

[ShortnFiery]

18. We don't share a similar culture with either by any stretch of the imagination. eom

[Toucano]

31. That doesn't make the "failed states" n/t

[Ex Lurker]

12. Iran doesn't ban gays

it's just that there are no gays there

[Behind the Aegis]

15. What is the point of this crap article?

[Chulanowa]

16. To make you paranoid, Aegis

[Behind the Aegis]

17. So nothing of substance...how surprising, Chulanowa.

[Chulanowa]

25. Welcome to the internet

if you came here looking for information, you're in the wrong place; your library is down the street. All we have here are lolcats.

[Hippo_Tron]

19. I think it's pretty clear

Almost every nation that presumably shares our values and ideals (i.e. democracy and respect for human rights) such as Canada, every nation in Western Europe, and Israel allows gays to serve openly in their military.

Whereas the nations that don't allow gays in the military tend to be autocracies that have shoddy human rights records.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. Then why the misuse of information?

Why the "if DADT is dropped, we'll be like Israel?"

[Hippo_Tron]

22. Are gays and lesbians not allowed to serve openly in the military in Israel?

From what I've read they are. You take this as though it's some kind of insult. To me it signals that Israel practices both tolerance and common sense and that the United States needs to learn from them and the other states that do the same.

On Edit: I just saw the part where it says that Israel is the only state that allows gays to serve openly and executes people. I do think it would have been prudent to note that they haven't executed anybody since Adolf Eichmann

[Behind the Aegis]

23. They are and they are respected and have quite a few rights.

The implication is that the US shares common policies with "horrible" countries and with the reversal of DADT, then it would share a spot with only Israel. It seems to imply this is as bad. Of course, if one really wanted to stretch it, it could imply something else all together. Also, the information is based on false conclusions as DSC pointed out in an earlier post to which you responded. Furthermore, Israel's policy in regards to capital punishment is no where near the US's.

[Hippo_Tron]

24. I think it's worth pointing out that the US shares a horrible policy with horrible countries

And also I think the fact that the US shares its capital punishment policy with some other horrible countries is also worth pointing out. And also if you read the article further they do clear up the issue with states that execute gay people (what dsc was referring to) and the picture still looks much the same.

I think the only problem with the article is that it's disingenuous to say that Israel is a death penalty state. It's technically on the books, but it's basically designed to never be used. And since Israel doesn't execute people, that's another thing that the United States ought to learn from them IMO.

[Behind the Aegis]

26. I agree in some respects.

The article never addresses the issue of execution of gays, but the general policy. The 71 countries that execute people don't all execute gays (for being gay). The piece is disingenuous in its conclusion and DSC's post explains this. The article states the number of countries that ban gays, it never says the number countries which allow or forbid discrimination based on sexual orientation. Then, it states the number of countries that allow executions, but lumps all of them in one group. It shows the cross over, then declares a change to DADT would result in the US and Israel being in a "club of two." It takes one set of variables, then changes it.

What do you think the purpose of:

But if "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" were to change, only one other country would have the same stance on these issues.

Bet you'll never guess who it is.

is?

Based on the article:

22 countries BAN gays in the military:
Cuba, China, Egypt, Greece, Iran, Jamaica, Mexico, Nigeria, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Somalia, South Korea, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Uganda, United States, Venezuela, and Yemen

71 countries EXECUTE:
Afghanistan, Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belize, Botswana, Burundi, Cameroon, Chad, China, Comoros, Congo, Cuba, Dominica, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Ghana, Guatemala, Guinea, Guyana, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Lesotho, Libya, Malawi, Malaysia, Mongolia, Nigeria, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Palestinian Authority, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Somalia, South Korea, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Sudan, Swaziland, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Thailand, Trinidad and Tobago, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United States, Vietnam, Yemen, Zambia, and Zimbabwe

17 countries both BAN gays in the military and EXECUTE:
Cuba, China, Egypt, Iran, Jamaica, Nigeria, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, United Arab Emirates, Uganda, United States, and Yemen

THE PROPER CONCLUSION (using the crossing circles)

55 countries DO NOT BAN gays in the military and EXECUTE:
Afghanistan, Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belize, Botswana, Burundi, Cameroon, Chad, Comoros, Congo, Cuba, Dominica, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Ghana, Guatemala, Guinea, Guyana, India, Indonesia, Iraq, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Lesotho, Libya, Malawi, Malaysia, Mongolia, Oman, Palestinian Authority, Qatar, Sierra Leone, South Korea, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Swaziland, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Thailand, Trinidad and Tobago, Vietnam, Zambia, and Zimbabwe

[Donald Ian Rankin]

30. I think you're reading it wrong. Isn't the article *anti* DADT?

As far as I can see, it's suggesting that sharing a spot with only Israel would be a step up from the current countries the US is on a par with in this respect.

[davidpdx]

32. I'm going to double check on South Korea, that maybe wrong

They have mandatory military service. I don't know if that is excused or not. My thought is that it wouldn't be. It is pretty tough to get out of. I'll ask someone though.

[old mark]

34. Meaning every other country in the world with a military does not....nt

[CanonRay]

35. Really fine company, as usual