It's scary how many people, across the board politically, make excuses for corporations

[Ardent15]

I was talking with a right-wing poster on another forum, and he was making all sorts of excuses for BP and for corporations in general.

What's scary, though, is that he is very rational and calm when defending corporations, but when the topic was something like illegal immigrants, or social welfare, he's very hotheaded and demonizes poor people-and what's worse, he seems to ENJOY it. Also, he channeled Glenn Beck by saying "social economic justice is against the will of the people."

I see this pattern of behavior across the political spectrum. Right-wingers-Republicans, Democrats, and Independents-are full of contempt and callousness for poor people, or people who are on hard times, etc. However, they are GUSHING with praise for corporations, and rich people in general.

The sad thing is, these defenders of corporate elites will be thrown under the bus by the corporations too. We're all in this together-but they refuse to acknowledge it.

[villager]

1. Kapos always think that *they* will be saved...

Alas, the "logic of the camps" doesn't spare them, either...

[Taverner]

2. Yep

That 2% will hang on to their 98% at all costs...and in the end they even think the remaining 2% is theirs

[The Wielding Truth]

19. It's brain washing. PR at its most effective. Too bad most people don't take

pride in having an truly open mind.Looking at the big picture and how money and greed has put too much pressure on lessening restrictions on protecting our environment. If it is more cost efficient to hide the truth, not prosecute, and change the laws so the accountability will not be laid on the embezzleing corporate heads, where it belongs, then you see that our country has been gutted leaving holes that are so vacuous that it can barely function.

[sabrina 1]

89. Yes, they pay millions to huge PR firms to get those results.

BP was caught off guard this time, but already they are being given advice by some of the most evil corporate PR reps, like Blackwater, about how they can overcome this disaster and 'move forward'.

PR firms twist the public's initial and usually correct reactions to evils like torture and mercenary killings, into lethargic acceptance of the unthinkable.

Before long, I have no doubt that on Progressive boards once the PR starts to work, there will be people defending BP. And after a while the media will stop covering the story and we will be on to something else.

Eg, we have already forgotten the Coal Mining disaster, something I'm sure Blankenstein et al are more than happy about. The media cannot focus on more than one major event at a time, and I'm sure Massey Energy is already working on their PR while the media drops the story.

[reggie the dog]

98. all they need to say is "we've moved on"

it worked for cheney when he was vp

[EFerrari]

34. Spot on. It would be tragic were they not so destructive.

[burnsei sensei]

68. This is probably what

Ward Churchill meant when he talked about "little Eichmanns"

[Cleita]

3. Not really considering all the brain washing we get about business

being the backbone of America and therefore should never be questioned when they want laws changed that benefit them. I shocked my husband once when I told him I had no loyalty whatsoever to the company I worked for and would quit in a heartbeat anytime I got a better offer. Yet, most people believe that they must be faithful to the company they work for. Yet, that same company has no problem throwing them to the wolves when their usefulness to them had ended. I mean they expect us to give notice when we quit, but they can fire you at the end of the day with no apologies and no notice.

[Cant trust em]

4. The measure of human worth in this country is based on that person’s ability to create wealth.

crazy.

[Kievan Rus]

26. It shocks me that so many Christians defend no-rules capitalism and greed in this country

Bet they never covered Matthew 6:19-24 or Matthew 25:40 in Sunday School.

[timtom]

28. I think it's a safe bet that there are a lot of Jews who also

defend "no-rules capitalism and greed in this country."

In fact, I think it's a disease that spreads across religious and philosophical boundaries.

I remember S.I. Hayakawa, a leading exponent of general semantics, turning out to be a major right-wing asshole in the sixties. It's kind of like a Zen master turning into a Nazi.

[liberation]

72. Religions have been, are, and will be a method for social control

They may co-opt worthy ideals, or humane concepts regarding morality. But they do so in order to aid religious leadership and their principal goal: control you.

There have been thousands of religious movements through history. Each with a different deity(s), a different moral code, a different set of mythological nonsense, historical basis, and traditions. Such diversity, in most cases highly contradictory, would lead most people to understand the false nature of religion due to it being based on complete lack of evidence. However, a funny thing happens when we dig deeper, and notice that one of the few "constants" among all this religious diversity is that one of the few things that most religions coincide in, is in having religious leaderships being the ones deciding and controlling what people should, have, or are allowed to do with their own lives. Funny that, eh?

If people were truly honest, we would frame religion under its only common trait: social control. The actual worshiping aspect is so diverse and varied, that is actually not a defining aspect of religion.

The supine hypocrisy of religions is exposed by things like for example, both Jewish and Christian traditions labeling usury as both immoral but actually antithetical to the wishes of god. Yet, usury... which is now know as interest/credit, is the very engine of our economy. And the bigger actors in the financial establishment which controls our lives via usury are, no doubt, devout Jewish and Christian individuals.

[LanternWaste]

88. Precisely the same as Philosophy...

Precisely the same as Philosophy, another wholly imaginative human construct set on both defining and "controlling" (at least to the same extent as religion) humanity.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. However I imagine many people will give much more weight to one imaginary construct over another imaginary construct...

[Hannah Bell]

35. "create"? nah. steal, confisticate, accrue to oneself, not create.

[Lorien]

48. "Obtain" wealth would probably be a better word, since many of those

who scam, steal or simply move money around produce nothing of value. But you're right; Americans by and large view the non-wealthy as worthless and disposable. The corporations and their talking head mouth pieces have taught them well.

[clarence swinney]

106. yes lorein

In 8 of Bush wealth was not created.
Wealth was Printed. By Fed.
In first five of Bush Fed increased Total Money Supply by twice as much in prior ten years.
Cut 6.5% Interest to 1%.
Told BIG Banks Come and Get It Plenty Here practically No Interest.
Rush to borrow Max.

Banks and Investors changed objectives.
In past, they bought and sold business stocks to build new one and expand current ones thereby creating new jobs.

Instead they went into GAMBLING. Betting money against Money. Big bucks.
Ross of Texas took a bet with "AIG" on Housing Collapse by 2010.
He got a check for One Billion. Out of our Bailout of 180 Billlion.

End Result==Few New Businesses=Few new jobs.

In 8 of Bush he created 31,000 Net New Jobs Per Month. Lowest since Depression.
Carter 218,000--Reagan 175,000--Clinton record 237,000

No Jobs except for 2,300,000 Wall Street shipped to China during Bush eight.

Middle Class Shafted since 1980.
Conservatism let it rip free em turn em loose they know best

olduglmeanhonsst

[liberation]

69. It certainly explains why the elderly are scooped out of the way, the minute they stop working

or why the disabled are ignored and left to fend for themselves, the minute they don't go out of their way with super human efforts to become "productive" members of society.


If you are not adding to someone's bottom line, you are useless in this country. Most Americans do not realize they will spend the majority of their lives working to make someone else richer. Very very very very few people in this country actually get to realize their full potential, and contribute back what nature gifted them with. Regardless of all that BS PR Americans are fed about the "follow your dreams, go forth an chase the American dream." We're a society which will spend more money in advertising those ideals, than in actually investing that same money in making sure people can indeed follow their dreams.

I don't think many Americans understand that being forced to work for the sake of working... is the very definition of slavery. Sure, the gadgets are much better, and the entertainment has been upgraded a bit. But the main reason why you woke up this morning and are working 8/9/10+ hours today, regardless of how much you hate it, is because you have no choice. You can't take off today and experience your own country. You can't actually go forth and do what you like to do. You can't stay at home just because today you feel like crap, or would like to explore something else you were curious about. You can't spend more time with your kids, and make sure they are developing like actual decent human beings who know they have a parent who loves them dearly. You can't spend a bit more time with the love of your life and explore the passion you feel for each other. You can't go and help your parents who may be feeling sick today, You can't go to the library and read about that thing you dream about last night and which you felt it was worth exploring. You can't stop and help that poor homeless person you just passed by. Just because the range is so much larger than you need to drive a car to go from your barrack to the "field," do not think for a second you are not in a plantation.

Rather than using technology to make our lives easier, and allow us to actually explore our potential as humans. We decided to just use technology to allow a very small and select group of humans very wealthy. We're as a species stuck in a feedback cycle: we work for work's sake. We develop more technology, so that we can develop more technology.

We have absolutely no plan as a species. And that is tragic. Instead, we decided that an "invisible friend" in the skies is telling us what to do and how to behave, and we trust an "invisible hand" decides our whole existence in order to comply with the whims of the "market." We're no much better than monkeys, if you really think about it. Except that most monkeys may have more control over their own existence, than we humans do.

[reggie the dog]

99. that is why I have no desire to move back from franc

one's worth over here is judged by ones personality.... not the case in my birth country

[reggie the dog]

100. that is why i have no desire to move back from France

one's worth over here is judged by ones personality.... not the case in my birth country

[Mojambo]

5. I see more apathy than outright defense of corporations, particularly on the left

No one really sees a way to lift their massive thumb off the scale, and because of it, good decent progressives seem to want to work the margins and try and inject solutions into a system that they don't feel can ever change.

Right wingers are just greedy fucks who don't give a shit about the damage corporations do as long as they get fat dividend checks.

[Ardent15]

7. True

I was talking more about right-wingers in general when I mentioned Democrats.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. a lot of people are bullies and bullies are very submissive to people stronger than them

and very oppressive to the weak

[Ardent15]

10. Yep.

Right-wing authoritarians.

[rfranklin]

63. That's right...it's a personality type and cannot be changed...

These are the people in the crowd looking up with wonderment at the dictator on the balcony of the presidential palace.

[Forkboy]

21. You got it.

:thumbsup:

[Renew Deal]

8. Corporations are people too

:evilgrin:

[Cant trust em]

9. Things are getting weird for sure.

I hope that this near financial meltdown brings our culture back in line where being a finance whiz isn’t at the top of the social pyramid.

Didn’t people use to have doctors at the top as something to look up to?

[OHdem10]

11. This is what happens in essentially One Party Government.

The Airwaves are filled with Republicans. Republicans are
the party of Big Business, therefore they only say positive
things about business. "Show me a poor man who ever created
a job".

For at least 20 years the ProBusiness Mantra has been everywhere.

I have not heard from Liberals questioning these beliefs.(On
the Airways)

[earth mom]

12. People like that are sociopaths. Simple as that. It's all about them and how much money

they have or hope to have someday.

You know, when they strike it rich like Oprah or Bill Gates. :eyes:

[Ardent15]

14. I've thought about that

However, there are far more assholes then there are sociopaths, so I think it's just a matter of people aping the behaviors of actual sociopaths.

[glitch]

62. Assholes aping the behaviors of actual sociopaths

because they see how sociopaths are rewarded in our sick culture. And we got so sick by allowing the crazies access to power.

Let our experience be this generation's (apparently we need one every generation) lesson to others.

[Kievan Rus]

29. Very true. I had a friend that I have since cut ties with that was like that

All she cared about was how much stuff and how much money SHE could get. She truly cared about nobody but herself. Not surprisingly, she went off the wingnut deep-end when Obama was elected in November '08...primarily because she feared that "Obama's tax plan" would take all her wealthy family's money away.

Sociopaths whose lives revolve around money and stuff are addicts...just like gambling addicts, alcoholics or meth-heads.

[kenfrequed]

13. It is also scary how many of them unrec posts.

.

[cascadiance]

94. Just doing their feudal overlord's bidding I guess!

I notice that too!

[coyote]

15. Stockholm syndrome. N/T

[readmoreoften]

16. Well. Not really across the political spectrum. Socialists don't make excuses for corporations.

Neither do left-liberals, communists, or anarchists.

[Echo In Light]

17. Never underestimate the power of denial

[blindpig]

18. Well, it's like old Karl said;

The ruling ideas of each age have ever been the ideas of its ruling class.

So first job is to destroy this nonsense with irrefutable theory, and that is what Marx did.

So now it is up to us.

[Kat45]

20. Way too many people believe they will be rich someday,

even though there is no logical reason for them to believe it. Either they don't realize how difficult/unusual/unlikely it is for a person to become rich, or they think so highly of themselves that they believe they are the exception who of course will get their due and become rich.

[William Z. Foster]

22. they are rewarded for it

Educated people and intellectuals, the white collar people in this country, are directly or indirectly rewarded to the degree that they support and promote corporate Capitalism, and punished to the degree that they challenge it. This is embedded into all of our social relationships and conventions and interactions. It is equally true of those who think of themselves as Democrats as it is with people who think of themselves as Republicans.

It is not thought of by people as promoting Capitalism, but rather as "facing reality" and "accepting human nature." People know on some level that they must toe the line or they will be punished or starve, since they put so much time and attention on obeying the rules, seeking the rewards in status, comfort and perks that come from that, and avoiding the punishments for speaking out or resisting. This is seen as "making the right choices" and "being a winner" - being well adjusted to society. What happens when people are well-adjusted to a society that has gone mad?

To do anything other than make up excuses for corporations would require questioning everything about society and our roles in it. Few are willing to do that.

We have a disproportionate representation here of people from the upper 10% income bracket, of bosses, owners, landlords, managers, investors. Naturally enough, they identify with and side with the upper 10% income bracket, the bosses, owners, landlords, managers, investors, and in this system that ultimately means identifying with the "top dogs," the big winners - the corporations.

Notice that as things unravel, people want to describe a handful of corporations as evil and punish them - Monsanto, Enron, Goldman, and now BP. But there is nothing unusual about those corporations, and there is nothing about corporations and the way they are run that is substantially different from the way the "winners" run things everywhere in our society and at all levels. BP's relationship to the public is not significantly different than the landlord's relationship to the tenant, for example.

Of course, corporations are not "evil" but rather they are amoral and anti-social by nature. Morality and social concerns interfere with profits. Also, there is no one there to punish in a corporation, other than to drag some scapegoats out and hang them, and those scapegoats are not doing anything very different from what bosses, owners, landlords, managers, and investors are doing everywhere. Corporations are a government granted charter to do business without any personal liability or responsibility, and are legally required to serve Wall Street and only Wall Street. All bosses, owners, landlords, managers, and investors everywhere in society are then dependent upon and connected to that one way or another.

Money rules everything, everywhere. Those with access to capital or control over property are then able to dominate others, and this is what we call "winning." We are all dominating or being dominated every minute of our lives, and it is all according to who does and who does not have access to capital.

Sure, people want to "regulate" or "punish" corporations, but that is mostly a public relations effort, an attempt to make corporations look better or more benign so that the predatory and exploitative system itself is not challenged, so that the general pubic doesn't see it for what it is and overthrow it.

[Odin2005]

23. They believe the Capitalist lie that "Capitalists create jobs".

No, WORKERS create jobs by making stuff and providing services people want. The Capitalists just skim of the wealth that rightfully belongs to the workers.

[Individualist]

24. It's more disgusting than scary.

[Kievan Rus]

25. They've been brainwashed by all that Horatio Alger crap

Perhaps we should give a friendly reminder to our right-wing friends that Alger's works were FICTION.

It's amazing and absurd that most right-wingers assume, as an act of blind faith, that they'll be rich someday.

[Starry Messenger]

27. We're battling an enemy that has unlimited funds for PR.

Not only is there the social conditioning of rewarding for sociopathic behavior, there is the unrelenting propaganda. It is scary. It's scary to hear people parrot lines straight off of think tank websites and probably never have a clue that they've been brainwashed. The corporations learned that they had to put away the silk top hats and cultivate a fake folksiness to sell their message. It's been working great across the spectrum. The big lie went casual Friday.

[Echo In Light]

54. Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars

[bvar22]

30. You don't have to go to "right wing" websites.

You can find them here at DU.
Monsanto shills are common.

[amborin]

104. +1

and others, too

[donheld]

31. craporations.

[mynameiswhat]

32. how else would they get money if they didnt stand up for them?

[QC]

33. Many Americans could have gone a long way in the court of Louis XIV.

That includes quite a few who call themselves liberals yet still cannot resist the urge to kiss the jeweled slipper that kicks them.

[EFerrari]

36. People who need to be connected to "fuck you" money, even in fantasy.

Yep.

[QC]

37. That's exactly it. n/t

[time_has_come]

38. What's scarier to me is how some people suspend rational thought and condemn corporations

over shit that's wrong.

Like that supposed ordering of reporters off the beach for PR reasons by the BP CEO.

That video was LBN and GD and a slew of posters got outraged at the BP CEO for trying to hide the spill. He obviously, from watching the video, was just wanting a cameraman to not walk in oil that workers were cleaning up.

Making that observation makes me an "apologist" for BP, when all I'm trying to do is stop us at DU from looking like idiots.

That scares me.

[JCMach1]

39. No matter how much he 'feels' our pain at the end of the day he's going back to his 1M+ penthouse

well away from the Gulf...

BP is a prime example of why we need a corporate death penalty in this country!

[time_has_come]

40. That is anger, and not unjustified. But it's still scary when anger supplants truth

and that's happening here a lot these days.

[JCMach1]

41. This is a horrific event, so I would expect denial

the MSM, the administration, the whole freakin' country is at that stage at the moment... although some are reaching the anger phase.

The scale of this thing is not even being felt yet... It will be a rolling disaster over the next 10-15 years.

Contamination, dead zones, red tides, fish, bird and mammal kills... increased cancer rate for humans along the gulf... :(

Just as with 9/11, Katrina, the recent wars, the truth is often a victim in overwhelming situations.

[time_has_come]

43. still, false outrage and misinformation hurts us all...

[JCMach1]

44. unfortunately, ALL of the media has been FOXified

we live in an era of post-modern journalism.

The media now manufactures the truth.

[Donnachaidh]

51. peons playing protector for corporate greed is far more telling about how

ignorant some are in our society.

Yeah -- damn those people who are upset that the wildlife is dying. And the ecosystem they depend on to feed their families is damaged for the next few DECADES.

Geez, too bad the peons don't have tails. They would positively WAG at the thought of their corporate bosses smiling at them. :sarcasm: :puke:

[Donnachaidh]

50. stupidity supplants reality with a lot of the apologists around here lately.

Scary when so many peons run to aid the corporations that don't give a shit about anyone, even their customers.

[time_has_come]

52. Well, judging from how this story took off, it's clear common sense has prevailed. n/t

[readmoreoften]

45. Yes, all these repeated refusals to allow reporters on the beach is BP's deep "concern"

for their well-being.

I hope you're still in high school, because you've confused clarity and common sense with "suspending rational thought." Which means you're young and naive or you have a financial interest in pro-corporate positions.

[time_has_come]

53. Yes, because there's no good reason to keep people from trampling on oily beaches.

[blindpig]

65. Oh please...

have you no shame? Do you so love Massa?

Expropriate without compensation

[time_has_come]

103. What is wrong with you?

What do I need to do, start listing off everything that I'm angry at BP for? Criticize them to earn your seal of approval?

My view is this...anyone who thinks that CEO was trying to keep the media from filming the oil when he told that cameraman to "get outta there" is a broken down idiot.

If I have to be an idiot to gain your anti-corporate progressive credentials then I'll pass.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

55. yes, because he has a different opinion than you, he's a paid troll.

classy
:rofl:

[time_has_come]

57. Tell me, yes or no

do YOU think the CEO was telling that cameraman to "get outta there" because he didn't want pictures taken of the oil?

Yes or no.

Let's see how willing you are to appear stupid to satiate your anger.

[Donnachaidh]

49. the only people who consistently look like idiots are the apologists

Yeah yeah, he's *sooooo* concerned about people walking in oil from a MASSIVE oil spill CAUSED by his company....:sarcasm:

Forest for the Trees dude.

Too bad the irony-impaired are usually the sycophants of the wealthy that feel it is their right to rape and pillage the environment.

:eyes:

[time_has_come]

58. whatever. the truth is the truth.

And the truth is there were 20 cameras with him on that beach, and he stopped at an oily site and didn't say anything until the cameraman got to close to the oil.

He can be criticized for much, but not this. And people who want to insist he was trying to hide the oil from the cameras in this case look beyond foolish and actually make it look like he's being criticized unfairly, diminishing legitimate criticism.

So, good job.

[PVnRT]

64. Yes, because keeping a camerman away on ONE beach

is going to hide the entire oil spill. Brilliant. Got any more useful insights for us?

[valerief]

82. Yeah, bad-mouthing corporations who shit on the planet when a few million dollars

in precautions could have spared the planet is a bad thing and even WORSE than shitting on the planet.

Give me a break. Do I really need to add :sarcasm:?

[Swamp Rat]

42. k&r

[Lorien]

46. Yep. And I'll bet that many of these selfservatives call themselves "Christians"

once again proving that so many of them are unacquainted with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

[ShortnFiery]

56. We've allowed ourselves to be brainwashed by the politicians and corporate media whores.

[Echo In Light]

59. .

[rucky]

60. He finds comfort in the authoritarian structure of a corporation.

[newtothegame]

61. What I don't like is the focus on "corporations."

I don't care that the Supreme Court considers them a "person," the vitriol and hatred against "corporations" on here gets us nowhere. A corporation is NOT a person. They don't bleed, they don't have hurt feelings. All the talk about "evil corporations" is just an overused meme. Hasn't anyone seen Team America? That's the exact line that Alec Baldwin uses when he has nothing else to say: "Global warming and...C-CORPORATE AMERICA!!"

Same thing with the focus on corporate taxes. Focus on the people BEHIND the corporations. Tax THEM. A corporation doesn't make decisions; the people that own the corporations DO.

[blindpig]

66. Dead wrong

It is Capitalism, corporations being the most efficient form of it's organization, which sanctions, rewards encourages this vile behavior.
Whack one 'evil doer' and another steps into his place, it is this irrational, inhumane and ecologically impossible social organization which need be whacked.

Kill Capitalism

[burnsei sensei]

67. The American corporation was designed,

at first, to shelter investors from risk.
The problem is that now it shelters too many people and its power has become arbitrary and unlimited.
The entire form must be deprived of "personhood" in law.
Then it must be re-structured toward accountability to the public.
The sheltering has gone too far.

[blindpig]

71. Capitalism evolves, constantly seeking the largest return

This 'sheltering' is just one tactic to achieve that goal, they will not give that up. And the government is owned by them, will do nothing but cosmetic PR. Nothing less than killing capitalism by nationalizing the corporations, starting with the energy and finance sectors, can put an end to this madness.

[newtothegame]

75. America wasn't designed to have nationalized corporations.

If you do that, you're talking about turning this country into something the founders never meant it to be simply because you think it should be that way. If you want things nationalized, go to countries whose constitutions allow such things.

[burnsei sensei]

78. That's true, but the founders

could not have foreseen the world in which we find ourselves today.
History changes not because traditions are thrown out, but because contingencies force change.

[blindpig]

79. Who cares what a bunch of rich men wanted?

Look where their 'pursuit of happiness' has gotten us, look at this mess.

Fuck their dead asses, we need a society which addresses the needs of all humanity and survival.

Their revolution was a necessary step from what was to what will be but it is completely inadequate.

"Love it or leave it", where have I heard that before?

[newtothegame]

84. Live with it or leave it....

Love,
Your Constitution

[blindpig]

90. Sez who?

You?

Ha! You keep fine company

[newtothegame]

105. You really want to dump the constitution? Really? nt

[clarence swinney]

70. WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION

1945-1980 were Great Middle Class Years.
Affordable Education-Homes-Health Care-Jobs Jobs-Unions-Pensions

Reagan and NeoCons came on in 1981.
Ir was intentional ENRICH Wall Street reduce Middle Class.
1945-1% owned 30% Total Financial Wealth
1989-36% (Ron big tax cuts for 1%)
2008--Bush Finished the Job
1%=43%
10%=70%
20%=93%
80%=7%-=20,000,000 workers=SHAFTED

20 years 3 Conservative presidents
18 years Conservative Senate
12 years Conservative House
6 years TOTAL CONTROL
Bush 8 let Wall Street go into Big Time Gambling
Instead of using investors money to create new businesses and increase current ones and create Jobs,
They created 31,000 Net New Jobs per Month.A sham.
Prior were Carter 218,000--Reagan 175,000--Clinton record 237.000
31,000 was an insult to working America.
During Bush 8 Wall Street shipped 2,300,000 of our jobs to China,

The Conservative ideology of Market knows best gave us Great Depression and Great Recession. Even Ultra Conservative Alan Greenspan had to admit it.

WHAT DID THEY DO??
Since 1980
60% Tax Cut to Top 1%
47% Tax Cut to Gamblers on Wall Street in Uneanred Income Tax
Huge Estate Tax Cut
Revenue Sharing costs to rich in income taxes transferred to Middle Class in property taxes.
Fed gave Bush 1% Interest and big increase in Total Money Supply
1920's Deja Vu. Banks rushed to borrow and lend lend lend to Developers
to build homes too large-too expensive for middle class declining disposable income
Increased Middle Class Payroll Tax
Taxes SS income
Five Cent Tax On Gas
Spending Spree on Defense which enriched Rich Investors in Defense
stocks,.
The Big Three took a 1000B of Debt from Carter and added on 8000B in 20 years of Spend + Borrow Our kids Can Pay Tomorrow.

Carter left Reagan a 600B Budget to which he added on 80%.
Carter left Reagan a less than 1000B of Debt and he added on 1700B
Clinton left Bush an 1800 B Biudget which Bush took to 3600B..
Clinton left Bush a Surplus as far as an eye could see and Bush added on
6000B Debt or more than we had after 220 years.Grover Nutquist had a party..

Folks! It was intentional. Grover Nutquist of ATR made 127 visits to White House in Bush first term. He was one who wanted to drown Government in a bathtub..How! Spend and Borrow to force us to eliminate Social Programs.
He has us, in 2010, exactly where he wanted us.
Facts hurt. Democrats are just dumb to not preach it over and over
8 more of Neocons snd American World Status will disappear to number two or three or worse.
Neocon ideology destroyed Rome-Spain-Holland-England and now America?
cswinney old ugly mean honest

prove me wrong please with facts and numbers

[pundaint]

73. Corporations are a legislative creation, they must have legislative constraints. Congress fails to

apply appropriate controls. When they screw Americans to make higher profits, that's just the way Congress made them. It is ENTIRELY the fault of a Congress who refuse to serve it's base, Us, because We keep reelecting them. Don't blame the Corporations, blame Congress.

[Lorien]

74. Check out the Health forum sometime

there are several posters there who dominate every conversation with the pro-corporate line. They seek to convince DUers that the ONLY trustworthy treatments for anything come from Big Pharma-that even VITAMINS should be controlled and regulated by Big Pharma and their lackeys in the FDA. The sick part is that most people in that forum just fall into line once exposed to that kind of relentless propaganda.

[Odin2005]

93. So I'm a corporate shill because I question quackery and anti-vax insanity?

[AngryOldDem]

76. Ingrained respect for corporations that goes back for generations.

It's a trait that will be weeded out eventually.

[jeff47]

77. Sometimes there can be misunderstandings

For example, I'm not in the "seize the oil spill from BP" crowd. Not because I like BP, but because I don't believe the feds know how to fix it. And so it's either BP, or stop the response for a while so that another oil company can come in. There's only 'bad' choices in this situation, and keeping BP is the least bad choice in my opinion.

Because of that position, I am often accused of being a shill/defender/making excuses for BP. I'm not. They've got a lousy record and they have created the largest oil disaster of my lifetime. I'll be thrilled to cripple the company through massive fines, legislation and all the nastiness the government can throw at BP...after they cap the well.

[valerief]

80. Stupid is as stupid does. They're just plain stupid if they can't see the forest for the trees. nt

[CLANG]

81. Corporations are not people

They get no immediate respect. They get no benefit of the doubt. They are not to be understood, but to be controlled.

[valerief]

83. +1 trillion!!!! nt

[JoshieR]

85. That's because....

....many people still truly believe that pure capitalism is the best form of economy. They see regulation as a burden on economic growth rather than a stabilization mechanism keeping our economy from the "roller coaster" effect (at least in theory).

People that don't understand the economy are the people (for the most part) that defend corporate misconduct and are warry of regulation.

[Nikki Stone1]

86. Talk radio has done its job

Rush is defending BP like his life depended on it.

[Mark D.]

87. Permanent State of Mind

But the bigger picture about corporate defenders is simple. EVERYONE who owns, runs, or heavily invests in the corporations for a big profit, if they are well off from it, will defend corporatism. They will abhor any regulations. Well, a few are ethical, I heard how Charles Schwab (a billionaire as it is) turned down a raise, and bonus the year he found out there would be layoffs needed to balance the business budget. He actually felt good for many jobs he saved. Most, they don't care.

That's the problem. They don't. You can't talk them out of it, any more than you can't talk me out of being 6'4", by telling me the value of average height. The folks in that small group that make up most of the top 1% (especially the top .01% and .001%) were the kids in pre-school who brought more toys than anyone to class, but yelled at any kid who wanted to play with them. The liberal kids did not have as many toys, but shared every one of them. They derive pleasure in a different fashion.

Once you get over that realization, you know not to debate to change their mind, but to win the point. As a Christian I realize, there is a battle between good and evil. But it's not just a 'God' and 'Satan' thing. It's not gay and straight, pro-choice and pro-life, Republican or Democrat even. A minority is on the left, a minority on the right, a majority in the middle, easily swayed. That battle to win their minds, be it Olbermann vs. O'Reilley, Maddow vs. Limbaugh, is the real battle.

The trouble is, they have short memory that fades with generations. They don't realize most Americans were against joining in WW 2, after what happened in WW 1. The 'never again' of the Viet Nam crowd faded, as the younguns and war-hawks of any age pined for revenge, and something to 'support the troops' for. Seems they need a good war like some f*cking sporting event now and then. Will we look back on Iraq / Afghanistan in another forgetful way in the next generation too?

Google: The Banker Manifesto which Senator Charles Lindbergh discovered. It states clearly the intent is to have folks battling it out over small hot-button wedge issues while they conquer those so easily divided. The elite, the 'real owners' George Carlin talked about fear a united front the most. Keep people blaming 'government' even when you prove it's merely a corporate lobbying puppet so often. Until something bad happens to them personally from corporations, they just won't care.

That's really what it comes down to. There are those outside of the above top tier who lean right for either the divisive social reasons, racism (knowing social service / safety net cuts always disproportionally hit non-whites hardest) or just greed. They brought less toys to pre-school, but still had the same "I won't share" attitude with strangers. They are their reliable sheeple. Those elite get better and better with propaganda and tactics to make them seem to be on 'their side'.

But they are not. That controlling elite uses Nazi tactics. And the name fits. Nazi = Not-see. They make sure the easily led will 'not see' what is really going on. Ignore the German soldiers with torching material running from the Reichstag fire, blame the Communists. Ignore Halliburton doing a crappy cementing job, BP intentionally cutting corners on save well capping procedure, picking the cheapest way to do it over the safest. Follow Limbaugh, he says 'eco-people' did it. Yeah, right.

Like the Nazis, the elite depend on the enablers among that victim class (ie. the bottom 99%) to be doing the heavy lifting in the crowd. To ignorantly 'stand up against tyranny' when what they see as tyranny is an effort that would benefit them, and only really cost that upper elite. Like Michael Moore pointed out, they have this idea they are one scratch-ticket from being rich too. So they want tax rates low for when they get there. The American dream, you've gotta be asleep to believe it.

[MrScorpio]

91. That was a beautiful summation, Ardent15

And if you were to point that out to them, they'd have no idea of what you're talking about

[shireen]

92. psychopaths

that just about sums them up.

[truedelphi]

95. The end result of the fact that critical thinking is not taught in

Today's public (or even private schools.) And also, may I point out that a certain number of people on this board are indeed trolls.

And that fact results from the Admins having no way of knowing if someone is a troll or not. (How could they? There are over 100,0000 posters, and one of the nice features of this board is a certain sense of anonymity. So I am not offering this as blame; this fact is just part of what the culture on DU is.)

[unblock]

96. ask him "what if a bunch of illegal immigrants caused a giant oil leak?"

or "what if a bunch of poor people sold lead-tainted toys?"

or, try this one: what if bill gates were to have a stroke, be left paralyzed, and his wife and his accountant withdraw all his money and leave without a trace? should bill gates be able to get help from social security or should we let him go homeless without care?

[reggie the dog]

97. this is an american thing

many on the right here in france want to preserve the social welfare system because they know that we have a moral obligation to help those in need.

[tiredtoo]

101. corporations have done well

in convincing the general public that the reason we suffer in America is the poor people are sucking all the wealth from the country in the form of welfare etc. The truth of course is the corporations are sucking all the wealth from the country with their profits. I speak to many from different demographics and am surprised when a man making just above minimum wage and no pay increase since Bush was appointed President complains about unions. Go figure. Some people just cannot put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4. Talk radio has brainwashed many here.

[reggie the dog]

102. it is the education system

here in France kids get philosophy class in high school, they are also expected to WRITE ESSAYS for history can literature classes in which they logically explain why they think what they think using documents as support. In the USA we give kids multiple choice tests..... in France you only need 3 years out of high school to get a BA....