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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 04:37 PM Original message |
For those who think hate-crime laws are unnecessary, and/or bestow "special rights" |
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Terri S (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 04:43 PM Response to Original message |
1. Well said!!! K & R! n/t |
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sniffa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 04:47 PM Response to Original message |
2. k&r from me |
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Bjorn Against (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 04:58 PM Response to Original message |
3. Well said... |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 05:07 PM Response to Reply #3 |
4. Excellent point. |
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undergroundpanther (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 05:24 PM Response to Original message |
5. Hate crimes against transgender |
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LostinVA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 05:45 PM Response to Original message |
6. K&R! |
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Duncan Grant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:12 PM Response to Original message |
7. Bookmarking for the next time the "thought police"/"special rights" crowd shows up. |
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ismnotwasm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:16 PM Response to Original message |
8. Very cool post |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:23 PM Response to Original message |
9. Here's a different "slippery slope" (BTW, not a good logical tack, but I digress): |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:29 PM Response to Reply #9 |
12. That's OK by me. |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 08:16 PM Response to Reply #12 |
31. True enough! |
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kiahzero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:48 PM Response to Reply #9 |
17. Actually, criminal intent is part of just about every crime. |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 08:19 PM Response to Reply #17 |
32. "Motive" doesn't = "intent". My INTENT might be to murder; you might never know WHY. |
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kiahzero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:01 PM Response to Reply #32 |
50. Forgive me... I thought you were playing fast and loose with the language |
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Sadie4629 (919 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:24 PM Response to Original message |
10. One thing I don't understand |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:31 PM Response to Reply #10 |
13. It would elevate it to a Federal crime. |
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Sadie4629 (919 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:41 PM Response to Reply #13 |
15. But seriously, what would that do? |
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HiFructosePronSyrup (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:49 PM Response to Reply #15 |
18. Do you suppose there's ever been a case... |
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Sadie4629 (919 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:57 PM Response to Reply #18 |
22. Of course. And in the not-too-distant past. |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 07:05 PM Response to Reply #22 |
24. Christopher Anders, of the ACLU" |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 08:15 PM Response to Reply #24 |
30. IOW, you "asked for it." |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 07:01 PM Original message |
Is any law really a deterrent? |
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Chulanowa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 11:20 PM Response to Reply #10 |
66. From my understanding, |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 11:26 PM Response to Reply #66 |
67. That's it, Chulanowa. |
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iverglas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-09-07 10:00 AM Response to Reply #66 |
88. in a nutshell |
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Chulanowa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-09-07 01:05 PM Response to Reply #88 |
95. Exactly what I was thinking |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:29 PM Response to Original message |
11. Great post! |
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Kelly Rupert (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:37 PM Response to Original message |
14. K&R'd. I'm often out of lockstep with my DU brothers and sisters |
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nini (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:45 PM Response to Original message |
16. There are people HERE who believe hate crime bills are unnecessary? |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:50 PM Response to Reply #16 |
19. Yes, even here. |
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nini (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:52 PM Response to Reply #19 |
20. I think I'm glad I've missed those threads |
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Robson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 06:57 PM Response to Reply #19 |
21. Sadly I wish I could agree...but more importantly..... |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 07:01 PM Response to Reply #21 |
23. That's exactly what this legislation would do. |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 07:32 PM Response to Reply #21 |
26. You prove my point, in spades. |
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Robson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 07:58 PM Response to Reply #26 |
28. Everyone has self interests |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 08:19 PM Response to Reply #28 |
33. And many... |
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FreeState (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 08:01 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. Everyone has a sexual orientation |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 08:26 PM Response to Reply #29 |
34. That's my question, too. |
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Robson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 08:46 PM Response to Reply #34 |
38. We're already protected |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 09:05 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. Spoken... |
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Jamastiene (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 09:21 PM Response to Reply #38 |
43. What is it that you think is so special about other people? |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 09:47 PM Response to Reply #43 |
45. ... |
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Jamastiene (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 08:37 PM Response to Reply #21 |
36. You know what? |
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dave123williams (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 07:23 PM Response to Original message |
25. Nobody here is probably old enough to remember this, but... |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 07:39 PM Response to Reply #25 |
27. I'm almost old enough. ;) |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 08:31 PM Response to Original message |
35. I'm on the fence about hate crime legislation |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 08:56 PM Response to Reply #35 |
39. Nobody's saying... |
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 08:42 PM Response to Original message |
37. As Long As Special Hate Crime Terms Exist, Then This Should Pass Too. But I'm Not Sure They Should |
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Malikshah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 09:07 PM Response to Reply #37 |
41. The key is "conceptually"-- it is not conceptual to the victims |
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 09:12 PM Response to Reply #41 |
42. Obviously, I Disagree But At Least I Gave Logical Reasons As To Why. |
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Malikshah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:04 PM Response to Reply #42 |
51. Being singled out because of one's being is different. |
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:08 PM Response to Reply #51 |
52. Not Sure The Premise Holds Water. |
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Malikshah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 04:51 PM Response to Reply #52 |
80. From what I read in the responses to the link given, I think I have the votes |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 09:38 PM Response to Reply #37 |
44. I do see the difference... |
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 09:58 PM Response to Reply #44 |
48. Though I Appreciate Your Reply, It Seems You Misunderstood My Point. |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:45 PM Response to Reply #48 |
60. We are not equal. |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:53 PM Response to Reply #60 |
63. Mind reader. :) ^5 n/t |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:58 PM Response to Reply #63 |
64. Same page, as always. n/t |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:48 PM Response to Reply #48 |
61. And I appreciate your most well-thought-out reply, too. |
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TheMadMonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-09-07 03:00 AM Response to Reply #48 |
83. It's not making the punishment harsher, but ensuring that it's JUST. |
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iverglas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-09-07 10:07 AM Response to Reply #44 |
89. Lépine's murder victims were all women students |
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JackDragna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 09:48 PM Response to Original message |
46. I'm against hate crime laws. |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 09:55 PM Response to Reply #46 |
47. That's the "thought crime" argument. |
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JackDragna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 09:58 PM Response to Reply #47 |
49. I'm against genocide, of course. |
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Jamastiene (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:13 PM Response to Reply #49 |
53. The fact still remains that the Nazis |
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JackDragna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:17 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. I doubt we'd have an "outbreak" of violence. |
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Jamastiene (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:27 PM Response to Reply #54 |
56. Actually, the neo-nazi and other hate groups are on the rise |
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JackDragna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:33 PM Response to Reply #56 |
58. That's a complex question. |
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Jamastiene (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:39 PM Response to Reply #58 |
59. They complain about hate crimes legislation because |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:51 PM Response to Reply #54 |
62. Hate Crimes laws were passed in 1969. |
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JackDragna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 04:41 PM Response to Reply #62 |
78. I have no passion for the laws, period. |
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iverglas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-09-07 10:24 AM Response to Reply #78 |
91. y'know, I would almost imagine |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:24 PM Response to Reply #49 |
55. OK, I understand... |
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JackDragna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 10:32 PM Response to Reply #55 |
57. No crime is worse than others.. |
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Sapphocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-07-07 11:06 PM Response to Reply #57 |
65. What concerns me... |
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JackDragna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 04:40 PM Response to Reply #65 |
77. How is this "blaming the victim?" |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-09-07 07:33 AM Response to Reply #77 |
85. I think it's pretty clear that it would be worse to rape my 5-year-old daughter |
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iverglas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-09-07 10:23 AM Response to Reply #57 |
90. I think you're not quite understanding "motivation" |
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Occulus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-09-07 10:28 AM Response to Reply #46 |
92. Welcome to my ignore list. |
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ScreamingMeemie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 08:04 AM Response to Original message |
68. I needed to kick and recommend this as I was not around yesterday. |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 09:12 AM Response to Reply #68 |
69. Oh, come on MrsG. |
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Puglover (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 09:21 AM Response to Original message |
70. K and R |
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Solly Mack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 09:24 AM Response to Original message |
71. Excellent |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 01:39 PM Response to Original message |
72. K&R... |
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MsRedacted (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 02:49 PM Response to Original message |
73. At the risk of getting flamed. . . |
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Robson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 04:02 PM Response to Reply #73 |
74. That is where we are headed |
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MrPrax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-09-07 07:25 AM Response to Reply #74 |
84. Right said... |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-09-07 09:52 AM Response to Reply #74 |
87. Like I said before, Hate Crimes laws have been around since 1969. |
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Occulus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-09-07 10:31 AM Response to Reply #74 |
94. Adding the both of YOU to my ignore list as well |
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FreeState (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 04:30 PM Response to Reply #73 |
76. Two things |
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JackDragna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 04:45 PM Response to Reply #76 |
79. There's a difference between hate crimes.. |
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FreeState (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 06:37 PM Response to Reply #79 |
81. Intent |
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TechBear_Seattle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-09-07 09:24 AM Response to Reply #73 |
86. You misunderstand the concept of "hate crime" |
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iverglas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed May-09-07 10:29 AM Response to Reply #73 |
93. oh dear |
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TechBear_Seattle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 04:21 PM Response to Original message |
75. Very well put. |
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TheMadMonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-08-07 11:55 PM Response to Original message |
82. Hate crime legislation is less about deterence and more about JUSTICE! |
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