"Just do something!"

[scheming daemons]

"Why doesn't Obama do something?"

The government has no equipment or expertise for dealing with this problem. Unfortunately, the only entities that DO have the expertise and equipment are the oil companies.



"Why doesn't Obama take over control of the process then?"

The administration, through the Coast Guard and EPA, has taken over everything that they can. But the experts are BP, and BP has to be the ones who work on stopping the leak.



"Why doesn't Obama nationalize BP and take over operations?"

BP is not an American corporation. The President has no authority to nationalize a foreign corporation. When the gusher is closed and the oil is cleaned up, it will be time to take punitive actions against BP. For example, cancelling their US leases, suing them to pay for ALL damage - direct and indirect.

But for now, the focus has to be on getting BP to fix the problem. They're the only ones that can.


"I JUST WANT HIM TO DO SOMETHING!"

What do you suggest?


"LEAD!"

What does that mean in this context?


"HAVE A PRESS CONFERENCE!"

Will that stop the gusher? What will that accomplish?


"It will make me feel better. I'll know he's on top of things."

Having a press conference might make you feel better, but it will have no bearing on how fast this problem gets solved. The administration is as on top of things as they can possibly be.

Every federal agency that is remotely related to this is doing everything that is in their power to do.


"Doesn't matter! It's still gushing, that means that Obama isn't doing anything! He wants this leak to continue! He's in bed with BP! Why doesn't he *DO* SOMETHING!"

What would you be doing differently if you were in his position?


"I don't know! I'd just be DOING SOMETHING! I'd fix it!"

How would you fix it?


"I just would! We need more press conferences!"

No... we need to let the man do his job. He's doing everything the federal government can possibly do.


When it is all over, that will be the time for recriminations and taking it to BP. But for now, we have to let BP do what only THEY have the equipment and expertise to do.

The federal government is good at bombing things. The federal government has no means for plugging an oil gusher that is one mile below the surface of the sea. Only BP and other oil companies do. We might hate them, and deservedly so, but they are our only hope here.

Everything that can be done *IS* being done. It is in NOBODY's best interest to have this gusher continue... not the government's, not Obama's, and certainly not BP's.


"This isn't change I can believe in!"

This problem happened because of the actions of the previous administration and their allies in the oil industry. The response to this kind of situation from the previous administration would have been to do nothing.

The response from this administration is not at all like that. If you seriously believe that the response from the Obama administration is not better than the response would have been from the previous one, then you're delusional.


---------------

You can now commence with the "You just don't get it!", "Apologist!", "Obama=Bush!", and other non-sensical responses - accompanied by the requisite unrecs.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Newest Reality]

2. So the conclusion one can come to is:

Leaders are, (for practical purposes) useless, titular heads that are good for PR and putting a face on policies that originate below the surface?

Sounds right to me.

[glowing]

3. I'm not so sure everything that can be done is being done. I think that BP is still

trying to capture this oil field, rather than stop it. There are scientists and engineers with diff. ideas that are not being utilized. BP is trying to minimize the amt of exposure and have lied throughout the entire ordeal; including the explosion. If the CEO's and Board Members were facing criminal penalties with their asses being hauled off to jail, this thing would probably be shut down.. But as in the past, they just buy up politicians, judges, and lawyers to litigate the costs 20 or 30 yrs down the road. If corporations are persons, they need to be able to face jail.. which means those in charge at the top making the decisions would be held criminally responsible for these types of incidents which would have been preventable had safety measure been atually followed.

[Ruby the Liberal]

4. Or, quit asking BP for data and send our own people in there and collect it.

NOAA, OSHA, EPA, tap the academic community. Put them on a boat and give them glass jars and scopes and cameras and whatever else they need to take back to their non-BP-owned labs and figure out what is down there and how much of it there is.

BP said "no" and we said "okay then". Screw that.

[time_has_come]

5. You frame it so the imaginary person you answer comes off like a fool, but in truth...

...speaking to the people, as a leader, has value. To say doing so "accomplishes nothing" is delusional.

BP speaks to the people, but nobody can believe their shit. Obama needs to speak to the nation, lay out exactly what's happening (ie. more than 5000 barrels a day) and lay out the response and anything the nation should/could do to be helping.

As well, isn't there a request to dredge sand to protect coastline that has been held up in federal bureaucracy for quite a long time? I believe there is. Could he speak to that, explain the delay, and maybe even expedite the process?

[The Straight Story]

6. I'll go with 'Lead'

Because if he was doing a better job leading then people would not be asking these questions :)

[time_has_come]

8. exactly. it calls for leadership, and part of that is

talking to people. Pragmatists will complain talking to people accomplishes nothing, but they're pragmatists. If they can't see it, they don't get it.

[time_has_come]

7. oh, and unrecced

for creating such a simpleton as your imaginary questioner. Next time give your shadow opponent a few brains.

[freddie mertz]

9. Unrec'd. Mindless apologetics mixed with flamebait. nt.

[Individualist]

18. +1

[Arkana]

19. Actually, the OP hits on the "concerns" of almost every BP-centered anti-Obama thread

I've seen on these boards since the spill happened.

Oh, by the way--you forgot to use the phrase "DLC-corpofascist apologist" somewhere in your post.

[freddie mertz]

23. I don't use that terminology, at least, not in that formulation.

I DO believe that the government responses has been inadequate, however.

[laughingliberal]

20. +1 nt

[donco6]

26. +1

[Donnachaidh]

34. [phone] n/t

[seabeyond]

10. thank you scheming daemons. i think you hit on about every one of my frustrations with

posters. i havent been in many of these posts, but

well

everything you are saying.

it is like saying, at the least, the administration can run around in circles with hair on fire, so we at least see them in action and bothered.

you expressed the things i keep saying to my keyboard, yet not being a part of

[stray cat]

11. Looks are more important than productive action. Maybe if he was on the ships staring at the oil?

Nice rationale post

[stray cat]

12. If the problem is a lack of will as DUers suggest - then DU should solve the problem

they have about as much expertise in this area and seem to be full of ideas....

[laughingliberal]

22. BP has forbidden any non BP sanctioned contractors or agencies to be present or assist. nt

[lunatica]

13. The gusher is a mile deep

Just to compare and contrast I've tried to find out how deep submarines can go and though it seems this information is classified the rumor is that they can't go anywhere close to 5,000 feet. It's from 800 feet to Russian submarines rumored to go about 4,000 feet but that's not verified. Top secret 'rumors' are probably exaggerations and deliberate disinformation. Robot submersibles can go there and that's what's being used. It's the only thing that can be used, so the only people who can do anything about anything are the actual persons controlling those submersibles. I think there are only a few submersibles in the world. I haven't been able to find out by googling.

It's an alien environment.

[customerserviceguy]

14. It seems as though the relief wells

are going to be the only possible solution to stopping the oil, then cleanup efforts will make more progress than they lose. I figure by the end of the year, we'll have visibly turned the tide on this, although there will still be damage to undo.

BP will have the wrath of the American public and the American government to deal with then.

[WeDidIt]

15. It's like fixing a car. You open the hood, take a look, and you fix it!

Now take a look at this chart here...



That giant sucking sound you hear is Kevin Costner's Oil-Spill-Cleanup-Machine.

[Tesha]

16. You're wrong on at least this one point.

> "Why doesn't Obama nationalize BP and take over operations?"
>
> BP is not an American corporation. The President has no authority to nationalize
> a foreign corporation. When the gusher is closed and the oil is cleaned up, it will
> be time to take punitive actions against BP. For example, cancelling their US
> leases, suing them to pay for ALL damage - direct and indirect.

I have no opinion on whether BP's assets *SHOULD* be nationalized,
but there's no doubt that BP has plenty of assets within US territories
that *COULD* be nationalized should we wish. At least, we might want
to take legal steps to attach liens to those assets now to ensure that
BP compensates folks later for the damages now occurring.

The fact that BP is a corporation registered in another country is
immaterial to all this.

Tesha

[freddie mertz]

24. Technically, I believe the firm is "BP America."

And historically, foreign-owned assets have been taken over by governments, and not just ours.

Suez Canal comes to mind, for example.

[WeDidIt]

25. The Executive branch CANNOT nationalize assets unilaterally

except through martial law.

what is required is either a legislative solution which nationalizes their assets or a court order. Neither of those are instant solutions.

[freddie mertz]

31. So martial law IS an option, then?

Then I think it should be considered.

[WeDidIt]

32. Oh yes, Absolutely

Suspend the constitution, give up all of your rights over a fucking oil spill.

That's a stupider notion than the shit the Freepers spewed after 9/11.

You might be willing to go that route, but the vast majority of this country would call you a fool over it.

[freddie mertz]

33. Martial law in the area of the spill.

Your rights would not be suspended, as I understand it.

Only BP's.

ML can be targeted, or so I understand it.

[AnArmyVeteran]

17. Obama could have tried to shame the BP CEO for bailing out to go to his birthday party!

A lot could be done. Obama should have seized complete control over the entire crime scene. And no BP worker should be left unsupervised, lest they destroy evidence.

The US Coast Guard has been taking orders from BP keeping American citizens from even taking pictures. That tells me that BP seems to be running our Coast Guard and NOT the commander in chief.

Obama could even declare the equivalent of a 'war on corporate terrorism' to stop corporate assaults on Americans' savings, homes, lives and their environment. He could propose new corporate laws making leaders of corporations personally financially responsible for actions caused by their corporations. The sociopathic BP executive will not lose a dime of his fat salary and will probably even get a bonus. We need to change corporate laws to make corporate executives PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE and if that means seizing all of their assets and money, so be it. I'm tired of the clueless and the irresponsible leaders of corporations making millions, while competent, hard working Americans get barely enough to live on. And any foreign corporation wanting to do business in the US must agree and abide by OUR laws and that means subjecting their fortunes to seizure by the US government if they kill human beings and destroy our environment. It can be done and it should be done. It's OUR country, not BP's!

There are a lot of things that can be done. Positive and responsible things that could be done. And if I was in the White House I would be doing more than what Obama is doing. He could be doing things that would make him a hero, but for some reason he is doing virtually nothing.

BTW, I was an Obama delegate in 08 and I still completely support him, but he'd better get off his ass and start to represent the people for a change. He needs to grow a pair and get tough. I know I wouldn't take shit off of anyone, especially a foreign company that perhaps has destroyed the Gulf of Mexico. I find it almost funny how conservatives are whining about illegals coming into our country just to work and put in a hard day's labor, while we eagerly let thugs like the BP sociopathic CEO in to defile our environment. But conservatives always attack the vulnerable and support the rich and powerful. They don't even realize that by doing so they are hurting themselves. Conservatives sure are stupid...

[Jeffersons Ghost]

21. k&r

[renegade000]

27. I would like to point out at this time, Bush would have said:

"BP, you're doing a heckuva job!!!"

[BeFree]

28. I got one!! Seriesly!!

He could open up more areas so that BP can try again.

Oh, wait, he already did. Shucks.

Ok, here's another: Obama could point the finger at the cozy realationship between his administration and and BP.1!1

Damn foiled again. I guess I'm like you... don't have a gawdamn clue and am just going to have to sit back shut the fuck up and let them do whatever they fucking want. Oh and make fun of those who give a flying fuck.

Seriesly!1?

[NanceGreggs]

29. K&R!!!

:kick:

[cilla4progress]

30. Ok, so how about this, "symbolically" --

White House staff all the way up (I'm talking Gibbs, Emmanual, Biden, Prez himself) actually show up and do cleanup on rotating weekends. Provide a moral leadership example of hands-on; like Gore during Katrina.

Where is Al, by the way? Our political leaders should be showing up and getting their hands dirty, on this one. Out of the ivory towers and into the marshes. Moral, concrete leadership. Dirty, messy, necessary.

I'm serious.

[Donnachaidh]

35. keeping the scientific community in the DARK seems to be something the Administration is doing just

http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNews/Escalating_Clash_between_Oceanographers_and_Obama_Administration_over_Oil_Spill_Secrecy_100521

Transparency, yes? REALLY?