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I didn't realize Lou Dobbs was a farmer and married to a Mexican-American.

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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 06:37 PM
Original message
I didn't realize Lou Dobbs was a farmer and married to a Mexican-American.
Interview just ended on 60 minutes.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Very Interesting.
I wonder what his wife's parents think about his reporting.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Man that was shocking. Does the anti-Hispanic meme need tweaking?
:rofl: Or is he still just a disconnected bigot?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Well.. just remember that Condi is black ... and
Edited on Sun May-06-07 06:49 PM by SoCalDem
did we hear from HER?? If he behaves at home the way he does on TV, she probably has to speak in 4 second soundbytes and he always has the last word :eyes:
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I think that we should look at why Mexicans would want to leave
Mexico and come to Nebraska to work in a meat packing plant (have you ever seen a Nebraskan winter). Or why American's think that it is too beneath them to work in the fields to produce the foods that they eat? Or why the wage is so depressed that it is hard to live with a meager salary. Mass immigration doesn't happen because one wants to come, its because they are forced to come. I don't have a poblem with immigration either. I do have a problem with the rest of the world being forced to act as slaves to our existence. Would you like to work in the sweat shops in China to make stupid little plastic toys for McDonalds that will end up littering landfills? Would you know how to live in a place where you have to walk 5 miles to get clean drinking water? Would you like to live in a place where education in non-existent or bombs, violence, and prostitution is normal?

These are serious problems throughout the world. Immigration is just the icing on the cake to the world's problems.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. A tidal wave of disaster entered for Mexican agricultural workers, the farm owner/operators,
and their employees when, through CAFTA and new free trade agreement additions, the corn they had traditionally grown in Mexico for CENTURIES, being farmed by the same families for many, many generations suddenly went bankrupt as the U.S. taxpayer-subsidized corn started flooding Mexican markets, making the very process of trying to grow and sell corn impossible, as it was shown to them quickly they couldn't afford to stay in business, since the American product was able to sell at a much lower price.

Suddenly growing corn was a losing proposition. They lost their farms, their homes, and were without work.

The problem has expanded, since new provisions have been added and now American BEANS and American RICE are flooding Mexico, and putting THOSE people out of work.

Before the corn disaster happened to them, the U.S. took out their sugar cane producers with the sugar cane, grown at an incredible price in subsidies from the U.S. taxpayers, by the sugar cane plantations in South Florida, dominated by the Cuban "exile" sugar baron family, the "Fanjuls."
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I think you meant NAFTA, not CAFTA.
NAFTA = DISASTA
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Rydz777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Ye, it was NAFTA which
has been a disaster on both sides of the border. It has wrecked the Mexican economy and drained its population into menial jobs in the US. One might even speculate that it was planned that way - and that Mexico will eventually be asborbed into the Greater North American Entity with its capital in Washington.
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. The big corps and their investors make money both ways with NAFTA
They get cheap slave-wage workers in Mexico, plus they can ship highly subsidized products there and put the local farmers out of work. The Mexicans either work for pennies an hour or come to the US illegally and work for 4-6 bucks an hour here - putting US citizens out of work. The big boys get cheap workers on both sides of the border, plus they can pollute the hell out of Mexico and treat their workers like shit. As Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Bill Richardson said, "It's a WIN/WIN deal that will lift all boats." The problem is, the winners are only the rich and the boats being lifted are the yachts of millionaires.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Right! I wasn't focused enough to remember that. Here's more info. concerning the problem:
~snip~
More than a million Mexican farmers lost their land since the passage of
NAFTA and the subsequent dumping of surplus US corn, cotton, wheat and other
crops (according to Via Campesina and the Mexican farmers¹ organizing
committee). The dumping of subsidized corn and cotton into the Mexican
markets drove prices below the cost of production. Small farmers could not
compete and were driven out of business and off the land.
(snip/...)
http://www.organicconsumers.org/clothes/willallen011504.cfm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~snip~
U.S. Imports Bury Family Farms
TIM WEINER / New York Times 26feb02
MANZANILLO, Mexico -- For many generations, corn has been the sacred center of civilization in Mexico, the place where the grain was first cultivated some 5,000 years ago.

Gods and goddesses of corn filled the dreams and visions of the great civilizations that rose and fell here before the Spaniards came five centuries ago. Today the corn tortilla is consumed at almost every meal. Among the poor, sometimes it is the entire meal.

But the modern world is closing in on the little patch of maize, known as the milpa, that has sustained millions of Mexicans through the centuries. The powerful force of American agribusiness, unleashed in Mexico by the North American Free Trade Agreement, may doom the growing of corn as a way of life for family farmers here, agronomists and economists say.

Lorenzo Rebollo, a 53-year-old dirt farmer, works two and a half acres of corn and beans here on the slopes of the eastern state of Michoacán, in Mexico's central highlands, where corn was first grown as a food crop, archaeologists say. Mr. Rebollo is one of about 3 million Mexicans who farm corn and support roughly 15 million family members.

His grown sons have left for the United States to make a living, and Mr. Rebollo says he may be the last man to farm this patch of earth. It is the same story all over Mexico: thousands of farmers pulling up stakes every year, heading for Mexico City or the United States. Some grew coffee or cut sugar cane. But most grew corn.

Roughly a quarter of the corn in Mexico is now imported from the United States. Men like Mr. Rebollo cannot compete against the mechanized, subsidized giants of American agriculture.

"Corn growing has basically collapsed in Mexico," Carlos Heredia Zubieta, an economist and a member of Mexico's Congress, said in a recent speech to an American audience. "The flood of imports of basic grains has ravaged the countryside, so the corn growers are here instead of working in the fields."
(snip/...)
http://www.mindfully.org/Farm/Corn-Subsidized-Imports26feb02.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~snip~
Then there is the cost of agribusiness to the workers. The life expectancy of a farm worker in California is still not much above fifty years. Subsidized corn floods Mexico, driving peasants from the land and into the United States. At great risk to life and limb and for a large fee, they flee their homelands and sneak into the United States to work the fields.
(snip)
http://www.monthlyreview.org/nftae0804.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Kinda sad, isn't it? So many people have no idea at all what has been going on there, and how big a part this country has played in their poverty since the onset of the trade agreements.
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Robson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. Corporate America is destroying both the USA and Mexico
There is no end to the greed and desire to put the little people (in Mexico and USA) into surfdom based upon the policies of corporate America and Bush.

Bill Clinton doesn't get a pass either, as he signed NAFTA and was also involved in formulating trade policies that are raising the yachts for the rich (as mentioned previously) while sinking the boats of working class.
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spartan61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Lou Dobbs has no problem with LEGAL immigrants.
He is against the ILLEGAL ones. I agree with him. I don't find this to be racist.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. And They All Just Happen To Be Mexican?
According to Mr. Doobies, that's where the problem...those 12 million (and we have an accounting of this number?) are all from one place. I have never heard his discuss the illegal Poles or Russians or other groups who also live in this country illegally, but since they're not brown-skinned, they're not as much of a "threat"

Now how about addressing the issue of ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS...ya know the ones who exploit this situation for their own profit. It's nice to have a Doobie around, spewing talking points from the Minutemen and other White Supremist groups so no one pays attention to the real issue here...the living and working standards of BOTH countries. Wanna make the "illegal" problem dry up? Just start fining the contractor or Con Agra or whomever hires these people for below minimum wage with zero benefits (that the local taxpayers have to pick up...the employer walks free) $10,000 a day per undocumented worker. Wanna bet those "broken borders" get fixed in a hurry? No way in hell that'll happen. American corporates are too weened on the cheapest, most exploitable labor possible.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. I don't see large groups of Russians standing around waiting for work at the RR station
Edited on Sun May-06-07 11:20 PM by cryingshame
Nor are the local schools forced to hire teachers to educate kids in Russian due to the massive number of Russians reproducing and entering newly minted US citizens into the schools system.

Sorry, but the sorry truth where I live is, the latest wave of Latinos are taking job from the Latinos (who took jobs from ......... ).

And it's to the point where there are large numbers of latinos standing around with NO WORK all over Long Island every damned day and the numbers keep growing.

And the police do take down the plate numbers of people who stop and pick up these guys for a days labor. But it's not helping.

And the Polish/Irish kids that I have met here on Long Island come because they've signed up for summer jobs and had those jobs lined up for when they got here. So they aren't standing around looking for work that won't come.

Oh, and now the local schools have started with this idiotic gang crap. And NO, that problem wasn't here before this latest wave of illegal immigrants.

There are a lot of good people trying to bring various cultures together. And a lot of harmonious relationships.

However, there are also a lot of people building up resentment towards the latest wave of immigrants. And there is a cause for that. And it is not bigotry.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #28
45. Look Closer
The Operative Word: "Where I Live"...

My area went through a large influx of Eastern Europeans in the 90s (many major cities did)...after the wall fell, visas and green cards couldn't be issued fast enough. I saw a large influx of these people in the 90's...many coming here for purely economic reasons (why leave when you've just been "granted freedom"??) and the population in the Chicago area of these people grew faster than that of Hispanics or any other group. I worked with these people and saw many, many illegals...people who'd come over on a 6 month visa and went into hiding in the Polish or Russian communities when they expired...many working in low wage jobs...cleaning hotel rooms and driving cabs...in some cases, getting jobs that would have gone to a Mexican or other "brown-skinned", but since they were "white", that was more preferable. On several occasions, the INS would come calling and most the Poles would vanish...only to show up a couple days later. Recently I read of a similar situation involving Chinese who sneak into LA via cargo ships and have swelled the ranks of the Chinese gangs in that city. Again...this isn't a "Mexican" problem.

Again...those who see this as an "immigrant" problem refuse to address the issue about those who hire them and how these people are exploited on both sides of the border for American corporates. It's easier to pick on someone who doesn't speak the same language you do or looks different...easier to hate...than to look at the real cause of what's going on here and who the real victims are.

It's damn arrogant for people in this country to thing that Mexicans are coming here just cause they love it here or want to "turn this country into the United States Of Mexico". Think about what it takes to leave your home, chance fate at the hands of a coyote and then trek across open desert for the "privilidge" of fixing your next quickie burger or cleaning latrines. It just shows how damning the situation is in Mexico...again, one that our corporates have exploited thanks to NAFTA and created even greater economic disparity than previously exists (if such a thing could get worse).

I've been fortunate to have worked with many ethnic groups over the past 30 years. Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Poles, Russians, Koreans, Hindus and many others...and each group has a fascinating story to share. Each will tell you stories about poverty or political repression or a restrictive society that we can't fathom...and how grateful they are to be here and for the opportunities this country offers. It's no different than my grandparents 100 years ago who came over here for virtually the same reasons...the only difference was the laws were so lax compared to now.

Here's the bottom line...if there's now work, ya think people are "standing around" for their health? Methinks there are plenty of takers. I've seen the same groups you do, here in Chicago and in other places I've traveled...and they wouldn't be there if someone wasn't hiring. You never see the person doing the hiring have to take responsibility for their law breaking...only the Lou Doobies screaming about how our country is being over-run by Mexicans.

Sorry...while there may be a problem, the root of this strawman is as racist as it comes. Again...want to address this issue in a serious and constructive manner? Then lets start with the root cause...what brings these people here and who benefits from it.

Peace...
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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
52. You have a point. The illegal status is a problem.
This part of Texas has a rich hispanic history. Tyhose rushing thru the border illegally now seem top want to jump ahead of those who followed the rules for entering the country.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. The problem with identity politics
George Bush isn't a racist because he has Condi, even though his policies systematically damage African American communities.

Lou Dobbs is not a racist because he's married to a Mexican American, however his bizarre and incoherent crusade actually affects people.

Ah, authenticity. Sweet, sweet, Mexican authenticity. It doesn't matter what you actually DO to people, so long as you can get a little bit of that sweet, sweet authenticity.

And the suckers who've been trained to think of racism as a personal characteristic lap it up.

So lap it up, Truth Hurts.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #19
47. LOL. Just said it might need tweaking
I know full well that the "my best friend is (insert race/group)" alibi is usually B.S. And even when it's not, their could be some self-hating going on with the person who is friends with the (possible) bigot. I don't think Dobbs is anti-Hispanic, by the way. He definitely is anti-Black though, based on what I remember from his Katrina coverage.
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. I guess you could call that multi-million dollar spread a .....farm.
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Compared to Bush's pig farm turned movie set,
it is a real farm. Dobbs was raised on a farm and at least owns animals, can drive a tractor, and is not afraid to touch his horses.
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. He started working summers at age 9
in the potato fields (with migrants)and then at 16 started hauling hay every summer right through college.
http://www.horatioalger.org/members/member_info.cfm?memberid=dob99

Have to admit that always impressed me.

Also have to admit he can drive me crazy harping on illegal immigration and I'll change the channel.

But I like him on many other topics and I like the thought that right leaning people who like him because of the immigration issue are then exposed to his rants against the president.

I didn't get impression he is prejudice, more protectionist. He rants against exporting jobs because of it's effect on American workers and rants against H1B visas being increased for the same reasons...those aren't about Hispanics.

I like that he never brings up being married to a Mexican-American when he's accused of being biased. She didn't seem too timid either, I don't think he intimidates her. They have 4 kids...I didn't hear them mentioned on the show.

He sure doesn't keep his opinions private but he is pretty private about his life.

Living with his 97 year old mom and his in-laws surprised me too
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. Was the groom dressed in white (robes) at the wedding?
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
13.  A bit of Reality
Immigration, Citizenship & Border Security



October 25, 2006
Importing Poverty: Immigration and Poverty in the United States: A Book of Charts
by Robert E. Rector
Special Report #9

Introduction

In 1963, President Lyndon Johnson launched the War on Poverty with the goal of eliminating poverty in the United States. Since that time, the U.S. has spent over $11 trillion on anti-poverty programs, providing cash, food, housing, medical care, and services to the poor and near poor. Today, government provides a generous system of benefits and services to both the working and non-working poor. While government continues its massive efforts to reduce poverty, immigration policy in the U.S. has come to operate in the opposite direction, increasing rather than decreasing poverty. Immigrants with low skill levels have a high probability of both poverty and receipt of welfare benefits and services.<1>

Since the immigration reforms of the 1960s, the U.S. has imported poverty through immigration policies that per­mitted and encouraged the entry and residence of millions of low-skill immigrants into the nation. Low-skill immi­grants tend to be poor and to have children who, in turn, add to America’s poverty problem, driving up governmental welfare, social service, and education costs.

Today’s immigrants differ greatly from historic immigrant populations. Prior to 1960, immigrants to the U.S. had education levels that were similar to those of the non-immigrant workforce and earned wages that were, on aver­age, higher than those of non-immigrant workers. Since the mid-1960s, however, the education levels of new immigrants have plunged relative to non-immigrants; consequently, the average wages of immigrants are now well below those of the non-immigrant population. Recent immigrants increasingly occupy the low end of the U.S. socio-economic spectrum.<2>

The current influx of poorly educated immigrants is the result of two factors: first, a legal immigration system that favors kinship ties over skills and education; and second, a permissive attitude toward illegal immigration that has led to lax border enforcement and non-enforcement of the laws that prohibit the employment of illegal immigrants. In recent years, these factors have produced an inflow of some ten and a half million immigrants who lack a high school education. In terms of increased poverty and expanded government expenditure, this importation of poorly educated immigrants has had roughly the same effect as the addition of ten and a half million native-born high school drop-outs.

As a result of this dramatic inflow of low-skill immigrants,

*
One-third of all immigrants live in families in which the head of the household lacks a high school edu­cation; and
*
First-generation immigrants and their families, who are one-sixth of the U.S. population, comprise one-fourth of all poor persons in the U.S.

Immigration also plays a large role in child poverty:

*
Some 38 percent of immigrant children live in families headed by persons who lack a high school edu­cation;
*
Minor children of first-generation immigrants comprise 26 percent of poor children in the U.S.; and
*
One out of six poor children in the U.S. is the offspring of first-generation immigrant parents who lack a high school diploma.

Hispanic immigrants (both legal and illegal) comprise half of all first-generation immigrants and their families. Pov­erty is especially prevalent among this group. Hispanic immigrants have particularly low levels of education; more than half live in families headed by persons who lack a high school diploma. Family formation is also weak among Hispanic immigrants; fully 42 percent of the children of Hispanic immigrants are born out of wedlock. Hispanic immigrants thus make up a disproportionate share of the nation’s poor:

*
First-generation Hispanic immigrants and their families now comprise 9 percent of the U.S. population but 17 percent of all poor persons in the U.S.; and
*
Children in Hispanic immigrant families now comprise 11.7 percent of all children in the U.S. but 22 percent of all poor children in the U.S.

Massive low-skill immigration works to counteract government anti-poverty efforts. While government works to reduce the number of poor persons, low-skill immigration pushes the poverty numbers up. In addition, low-skill immigration siphons off government anti-poverty funding and makes government efforts to shrink poverty less effective.

Low-skill immigrants pay little in taxes and receive high levels of government benefits and services. The National Academy of Sciences has estimated that each immigrant without a high school degree will cost U.S. taxpayers, on average, $89,000 over the course of his or her lifetime.<3> This is a net cost above the value of any taxes the immi­grant will pay and does not include the cost of educating the immigrant’s children, which U.S. taxpayers would also heavily subsidize.

In this way, the roughly six million legal immigrants without a high school diploma will impose a net cost of around a half-trillion dollars on U.S. taxpayers over their lifetimes. The roughly five million illegal immigrants without a high school diploma will cost taxpayers somewhat less because illegal immigrants are eligible for fewer government benefits. However, if these illegal immigrants were granted amnesty and citizenship, as proposed by the Bush Administration and legislated in a recent Senate-passed immigration bill (S. 2611), they could cost tax­payers an additional half-trillion dollars. In total, all immigrants without a high school education could impose a net cost on U.S. taxpayers of around one trillion dollars or more. If the cost of educating the immigrants’ children is included, that figure could reach two trillion dollars.<4>

The poverty and other problems associated with mass low-skill immigration would be of less concern if they could be expected to quickly vanish in the next generation. Unfortunately, the evidence indicates that this will not occur. For example, the low levels of education, high levels of poverty, and high levels of out-of-wedlock childbearing found among Hispanic immigrants since 1970 persist among native-born Hispanics in the U.S. to a considerable degree.<5>

These data indicate that the current influx of low-skill immigrants will raise poverty in the U.S. not merely at the present time, but for generations to come. Current low-skill immigrants will raise both the absolute number of poor persons and the poverty rate in the U.S. for the foreseeable future. The greater the inflow of low-skill immi­grants, the greater the long-term increase in poverty will be.

Immigration and Census Data

This paper uses data from the Current Population Survey (CPS) of the U.S. Census Bureau covering the year 2004 to assess the impact of immigration on poverty in the United States.<6> The Current Population Survey is the princi­pal instrument used in measuring poverty in the U.S. The CPS contains a representative sample of permanent U.S. residents, both native-born and foreign-born persons .

The foreign-born population represented in the CPS includes both legal immigrants and a substantial number of illegal immigrants. The most widely accepted analysis concluded that some 10.3 million illegal immigrants lived in the U.S. in 2004.<7> Of these, some 90 percent are believed to be represented in the CPS.<8>

This paper assesses the contribution of immigration to poverty as reported by official U.S. government statistics. This analysis is therefore limited to the population represented in the CPS sample. To the extent that the CPS under-reports the number of illegal immigrants in the U.S., both the real level of poverty and the role of immigra­tion in poverty will be under-counted by CPS data. Therefore, this paper will also, to a degree, understate the role of immigration in poverty.

The impact of this undercounting of illegal immigrants is probably small. If the real number of illegal immigrants in 2004 was around 10 million, only one million illegal immigrants would not be represented in the CPS. An under­count of this magnitude would not greatly affect the figures presented in this paper.

However, it is possible the illegal immigrant population was much larger than 10 million in 2004. In that case, the undercount of illegal immigrants in the CPS would be proportionately greater. In these circumstances, the role of illegal immigration in generating de facto poverty in the U.S. would almost certainly be significantly greater than the figures in this paper suggest.

Defining the Immigrant Population

One basic issue in measuring immigrant poverty relates to the treatment of minor children born to immigrant par­ents in the U.S. For example, consider the case of a woman who comes to the U.S. from a foreign country and gives birth to a child in the U.S. without being married. Because the child was born on U.S. soil, he or she is automati­cally a U.S. citizen. Further, assume that the mother and the child live together and are poor.

The mother and child both add to the ranks of poor persons in the U.S. Conceivably, one might count the mother’s poverty as part of immigrant poverty and the child’s poverty as part of non-immigrant poverty. In reality, the expansion of U.S. poverty is, in both cases, a consequence of the mother’s immigration to the U.S. The number of poor persons would be two fewer if the immigration had not occurred. Thus, it seems reasonable to count both poor immigrants and poor minor children born in the U.S. to immigrant parents as components of immigrant pov­erty. This paper will follow that procedure.

Methodology

To assess the role of immigrants in U.S. poverty, this paper begins by dividing the U.S. population represented in the CPS into two complementary categories: 1) first-generation immigrants and their family members and 2) non-immigrant citizens.<9>

The first-generation immigrants and their family members category contains three sub-groups:

1.
foreign-born adults and children,<10>
2.
minor children born in the U.S. who live with their first-generation immigrant parents,<11> and
3.
other members of families headed by first-generation immigrants.

The last sub-group consists of native-born adult dependents who live in families headed by first-generation immi­grants. These individuals are primarily spouses or young adult children still living with their immigrant parents. These individuals are included in the “first-generation immigrants and their family members” category because their financial status is largely determined by the financial status of the immigrant head of the family. This sub-group is small, consisting of about one percent of the U.S. population; its inclusion in the overall category of first-generation immigrants and their family members has very little effect on the overall poverty numbers presented in this paper.

The non-immigrants category includes all adults and children born in the United States except those who reside in households headed by first-generation immigrants. This group consists of every individual not included in the “first-generation immigrants and their family members” category.

Throughout the paper, “immigrant” and “immigrant families” refer to members of the first-generation immigrants and their family members category defined above. The term “immigrant children” refers to the children in this category. The term “non-immigrant” refers to all persons in the non-immigrant category described above. Except where noted otherwise, figures in this paper were derived from the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey for 2004.

The Size of the Immigrant Population

Overall, 49.3 million first-generation immigrants and their family members lived in the U.S. in 2004; some 13.9 million were children. First-generation immigrants and their family members comprised 16.9 percent of the popu­lation. The non-immigrant population numbered 241.8 million, or 83.1 percent of the population. Of these, 59.7 million were children.

Among first-generation immigrants and their families living in the U.S. in 2004, Hispanics and Asians predomi­nated. Half of first-generation immigrants and family members lived in Hispanic-headed households, and 20 per­cent lived in Asian-headed households. Some 21 percent lived in households with white non-Hispanic heads, and 8 percent lived in households headed by blacks.

Measuring Poverty

Throughout this paper, persons are defined as poor if they lived in households with incomes less that the official government poverty income thresholds. In 2004, the poverty income threshold was $19,157 for a four person fam­ily, $15,219 for a three person family, and $9,827 for a single person household. <12>

Two terms used throughout this analysis are “poverty rate” and “poverty share.” The poverty rate measures the per­centage of a given group (such as immigrants) that is poor. The denominator in this case is the total number of peo­ple in the group. For example, if there were 1,000 immigrants in a community and 200 of them were poor, the poverty rate for immigrants would be 20 percent. The “poverty share,” by contrast, measures the number of poor persons of a particular type as a share or percentage of all persons in poverty. In this calculation, the numerator is number of poor persons of a particular group (such as immigrants) and the denominator is all poor persons. For example, if there are 100 poor persons in a community and 30 of these poor persons are immigrants, then the immigrant share of poverty would be 30 percent.

undefined

Immigration and Poverty

In 2004, some 35.7 million persons lived in poverty in the United States. Among these poor persons, 8.7 million were first-generation immigrants and their family members. Thus, roughly one in four poor persons was an immi­grant or member of an immigrant’s family.

Immigrants in the U.S. are disproportionately likely to be poor, which means that their share of the poverty popu­lation is greater than their share of the general population. While first-generation immigrants and their families comprise one out of four poor persons in the U.S., they are only one out six persons in the general population.

undefined

Immigration and Poverty Rates

A poverty rate measures the percentage of a group that is poor. Among the 49.3 million first-generation immigrants and their family members living in the United States in 2004, 8.7 million, or 17.7 percent, were poor. By contrast, 11.7 percent of persons living in non-immigrant households were poor, and only 8.6 percent of persons living in households headed by non-immigrant white non-Hispanics were poor. The poverty rate for immigrants was thus twice the rate for non-immigrant non-Hispanic whites.

The high poverty rate for immigrants pushes up the poverty rate for the U.S. population as a whole. Excluding immigrants, the poverty rate in the U.S. would be 11.7 percent. Including immigrants raises the national poverty rate to 12.7 percent.



Poverty, Education, and Immigration

Households headed by persons with low education levels are far more likely to be poor. Some 30 percent of per­sons in households with heads who lack a high school education are poor. By contrast, 4 percent of persons in households with heads who have a college degree are poor. The poverty rates of immigrants and non-immigrants with comparable levels of education are similar. However, the education level of first-generation immigrants is far lower than that of non-immigrants, and so the immigrant poverty rate is higherEducational Attainment of First-Generation Immigrants and Non-Immigrants

Both immigrants and non-immigrant households with low levels of education are more likely to be poor. The high level of poverty among first-generation immigrants stems, in part, from their poor education compared to U.S. natives. One-third of all immigrant families are headed by individuals without a high school degree. By contrast, 11.8 percent of non-immigrant families are headed by persons without a high school degree. Among non-immi­grant non-Hispanic whites, only 9.4 percent lack a high school degree.



Ethnicity and Education

Ethnic groups in the U.S. differ greatly in their education levels. Hispanics, both immigrants and native-born, have low levels of education compared to the rest of the U.S. population. Some 55 percent of first-generation Hispanic immigrants and family members live in households headed by persons without a high school diploma; among non-immigrant Hispanics, the figure is 27 percent. By contrast, only 11.4 percent of Asian immigrants live in house­holds headed by high school drop-outs; among non-immigrant Asian-Americans, the figure is 10.2 percent. His­panics’ low levels of education contribute to their high level of poverty.
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Robson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Why confuse us with the facts?
Many have made up their mind already, based upon a group think philosophy, that those who oppose amnesty and illegal immigration do so because of racist reasons. After all it's always the brown skinned Mexicans that are sterotyped as the illegals, even though they make up the largest segment of illegal immigrants by a huge margin. BTW I oppose illegal immigrants of any ethnicity.

Racism is accused by groups that have an agenda of marginalizing the opposition. After all...once one is accused of racism, how does one ever defend against it? Some have a philosophy that our laws be damned. If those who cross our borders illegally are doing it for a good reason, the intent is what should count, and not the act. Should we open our borders to every poor soul throughout the world, or only to those south of the border?

Should we then throw away all our laws and base legal action on intent and not the act? The result of course would be anarchy.

Workers in the USA have been squeezed on every front by the actions of big business and greed, and be assured that illegal immigration is a by-product of a US Chamber of Commerce big business agenda to turn this country into a third world cheap labor force with already crippled social security/medicare system that will be totally busted from the load of an amnesty. Amnesty will end up being the 1000lb straw that literally breaks the camel's back .

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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
50. Why not just post a link? Tell us more about Robert Rector...
Senior Research Fellow of The Heritage Foundation. www.heritage.org/about/staff/Robertrector.cfm

The same Robert Rector who supports Abstinence Education. (More stuff from The Heritage Foundation.) www.myheritage.org/Issues/Abstinence.asp

The Foundation wields considerable influence in Washington, and enjoyed particular prominence during the Reagan administration. Its initial funding was provided by Joseph Coors, of the Coors beer empire, and Richard Mellon Scaife, heir of the Mellon industrial and banking fortune.

www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heritage_Foundation

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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. What the SPLC says about DOBBie *&* a fair citation for him to RESPOND:
*******QUOTE*******
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=589

Broken Record
Lou Dobbs' daily 'Broken Borders' CNN segment has focused on immigration for years.

But there's one issue Dobbs just won't take on.


By Heidi Beirich and Mark Potok

.... For more than two years now, Dobbs has served up a populist approach to immigration on nightly segments of his newscast entitled "Broken Borders." He has relentlessly covered the issue, although hardly from a traditional news perspective -- Dobbs favors clamping down on illegal immigration, and his "reporting" never fails to make that clear. He has covered the same issues, and the same anti-immigration leaders, time after time after time. In recent months, Dobbs has run countless upbeat reports on the "citizen border patrols" that have sprung up around the country since last April's Minuteman Project, a paramilitary effort to seal the Arizona border.

But there's one thing Lou Dobbs won't do. No matter what others report about the movement, Dobbs has failed to present mounting and persistent evidence of anti-Hispanic racism in anti-immigration groups and citizen border patrols. ....

DOBBS responds to SPLC: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0703/28/ldt.01.html

DOBBS: Here's what your summer 2006 Southern Poverty Law Center intelligence report said. That I quote, me, if we can put this up for everybody to read, I "repeatedly and angrily rejected the idea that racism animates the anti-illegal immigration movement or its leaders." Wow. What are you saying about me? Are you calling me a racist? Are you calling me a liar? What are you doing there? It's a little nuanced for me.

POTOK: No. It's unrelated to -- I don't think you're a racist at all, and we've not argued that. .... In other words, you simply do not cover the unsavory aspects of this movement. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the goals of the anti-illegal immigration movement. ... ....

POTOK: But Lou, the criticism isn't that you are a racist or anything like that. The criticism is that in the actual movement, the movement that is out there existing on the ground, there are many people who are animated by very ugly ideas, and sometimes just plain wacky. The fellow you just had on your air a couple of segments ago, Chris Simcox, is a man who has told people, who said publicly, that he has spotted the Chinese army maneuvering on the Mexican border. You know, you have had him on your air at least 17 times, probably a great deal many more times, and that has never come up. Our point ...

DOBBS: First of all, I didn't know that. But it's fascinating. That sounds like the real story here. Mark, I've got to apologize. We are out of time. We've used up, what is it, six minutes here.

Mark, I'm glad you don't think I'm a racist. I think that you have to take a real view. And the empirical view here, the factual view of illegal immigration, I think, is critically important. I know the Southern Poverty Law Center does some good things, but I don't believe it's appropriate or fair or responsible of you to focus on, if you will, the immaterial and I would accuse you of the same thing you did me, leaving out some of the facts, and the facts are what are driving us here.

POTOK: Our job is to study racism and the radical right. ....

******UNQUOTE*******
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Matsubara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'm not going to defend Dobbs' immigrant-bashing/baiting...
...however, there is nothing inherently anti-Mexican about a desire to secure the border. In my hometown of El Paso, most people are Mexican or Mexican-American, and a majority of them support securing the border.

Any thinking person would understand that an unrestricted flow of people willing to work for subminimum wages will naturally undermine the bargaining power of American (and legal immigrant) workers already here.

I'm all for tightly controlling the border. But Dobbs' demonization of immigrants (who are impoverished and can't be blamed for trying to make a living), when it is American companies who employ illegals that are 100% to blame, is reprehensible.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
20. racism , bigotry isn't always about the outward bigotry of KKK, Fred Phelps etc
think of the people who say things like "some of my best friends are black". "i have no problem with gays, i just disagree witht their lifestyle".

Don Imus might be another example.

look to polls of whites and blacks when asked about racism where the polls seem almost reveresed in numbers. with more white tending to say there is no racism while blacks being on the other side.

i'm thinking Lou Dobbs might be one of them that doesn't straight out hate latinos like the KKK hates minorities. but he probably has a "those people" mentality in his head which can explain what we see on his show.

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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. "Those people" are his wife and her parents.
How can someone hate them, yet support so many of them? He has four children that are part Latino. The parents of his Mexican wife live in his fucking house! Just because you support an open border with unlimited immigrants pouring across doesn't mean someone against that policy is a racist.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Condi Rice said she felt nothing about the black girls who were killed
in a bombing . people of the same race or those who have relatives often are this way.

look at people with gay and lesbian children such as Dick Cheney.
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. So you know Lou Dobbs and his wife enough to
equate them with Condi Rice? Crazy.... :crazy:
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. it's not like i know Condi Rice personally
but it's an example of people of the same race or background or those who have relatives or friends of it can still be prejudiced against the same groups. maybe not their own , but others.

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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
22. Lou Dobbs is
Edited on Sun May-06-07 10:26 PM by greyghost
an American hero. He is correct in what he's saying and I hope he continues to turn up the heat.

What part of "illegal" do people fail to understand?

My only problem with Mr. Dobbs is that he isn't bringing the heat on the companies that hire illegal workers.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. While I neither canonize nor demonize him, I agree with the gist of his position on
Edited on Sun May-06-07 10:34 PM by TahitiNut
... illegal aliens and enforcement of our immigration laws.

I do NOT agree with "guest worker" programs or H-1B visas, however. Not at all.

The notion that some owner of (let's say) land converted to agricultural use has some entitlement to import labor is, imho, nothing but a more up-to-date version of slave trade. Such people can either leave that land unplanted, work it themselves, or hire an American labor force that can VOTE and file complaints on violations of relevant laws on labor, workplace safety, pollution, food safety, and other law that 'farmer' violates.

If people just can't live without hiring Mexicans, they can move to Mexico.
If people just can't live without hiring Chinese, they can move to China.
If people just can't live without hiring Indians, they can move to India.
If people just can't live without hiring Canadians, they can move to Canada.
etc.
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Robson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Bingo
Some farmers have always believed they were entitled to labor that weren't full citizens. They imported slaves then and now they import "guest workers or illegals".

Many Americans, my wife included, have picked fruit or vegetables inthe field when they were in school to help parents make ends meet. If farmers paid a going rate for US citizen labor they would either get participation, or it might force the ag industry to develop mechanized methods to pick that would be less labor intensive.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Lest we forget, public schools are off in the summer so kids can work the farms.
In tobacco regions, high school and college students once earned money by helping harvest and put up the tobacco leaves.

What particularly annoys the shit out of me is the fact that the very existence of a labor force is what increases the market value of a capital asset like cotton fields. Thus, speculators could buy up land cheaply, use political connections to create a "guest worker" program and, due to the very fact that people from an impoverished country would work cheaply, the land would become 'worth' 10-30 times what was paid.

It's about creating wealth for the already-wealthy. Exploiting economically impoverished people and gaming the legal system to do it.

The LOWER the cost of labor, the more the 'market value' of the capital asset increases. Thus, the people (brokers, not workers) for whom 'business' means buy and sell the assets (including stock) are automatically made wealthier with every penny less they can pay labor. The steady decline of labor compensation for the last 25-30 years has shifted ENORMOUS amounts of wealth to the wealthy, both with the abandonment of any enforcement of immigration laws, capital flow across borders, "guest worker" programs, a huge flow-through of felons in the prison system, and mergers and acquisitions (and bankruptcies) gone into overdrive compared to the prior 75 years.


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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. There are already some laws on the books but they are not enforced
The whole immigration issue is a political farce. Many countries welcome people from other lands for many reasons. Tourist and Tourism is big business for lots of parts of the world. The government enforcing proper documentation of workers smacks of big brother but there doesn't seem to be a lot of people offering alternatives to the current problem. In putting out most any fire the quickest way is to eliminate the fuel source
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #22
51. Dobbs doesn't want to anger the corporations....
Real economic analysis might piss off his sponsors.

He'd much rather encourage racism & xenophobia.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
32. he is a farmer, just like Bush is a cowboy rancher
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. He use to work 60-80 hours a week on farms in Idaho
He now owns a farm in New Jersey. You didn't watch the show or read his bio.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-06-07 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. And you will soon to be able to tour the rundown shack that was Bush's "boyhood home"
doesn't make it any more true
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. It is true with Dobbs. (nt)
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. So you're saying I'm lying, yet you didn't watch the show or read his bio. Are CBS & CNN also lying
Lou Dobbs

While the Dobbs family had little in the way of financial rewards, Lou Dobbs describes his childhood in rural Rupert, Idaho, as memorable. " I could hunt, fish, and ride horses. We didn't have much in material goods, but I felt I had all a young, active boy needed," he says.

His father worked for a propane business in Rupert, a farming community of about 2,500 people. His mother worked for a furniture store as a bookkeeper. Their modest house was on the outskirts of town and Dobbs says that their homelife was warm and loving. Both his parents worked hard, but they still found plenty of time to encourage their son in his interests. "Their values were the straight forward ones," he says, "honesty and hard work. My father often told me, 'Always say what you mean and mean what you say."

Every morning when Dobbs entered the kitchen he could see his father reading the newspaper. In fact, reading and keeping up with current events was an integral part of the Dobbs household. "My mother taught me to read before I even started school," he says. "I always read well beyond my years." An inquisitive child, Dobbs was a good student who in addition to hunting and fishing says that one of his favorite things to do was riding his bike to the Rupert library, where he would spend as much time as possible reading.

By the time Dobbs was 9, he was working each summer in the potato fields. He began simply picking potatoes, but by the time he was 11 he was lifting 100-pound sacks of potatoes onto trucks. In high school he pooled his money with several friends to buy a truck. They formed a hay hauling business in which they earned five cents a bale. Their work day started at 3 a.m. and didn't end until dark, which in the summer was 8 p.m.Dobbs did that every summer from the time he was 16 until he completed college.

In high school Dobbs was an able student and well-liked. He was the student body president during his senior year and captained the debate team. He credits his teacher, Elizabeth Toolson, for his love of debate and for opening his eyes to a much larger world outside Rupert. "She exposed us to an incredible world of politics and international relations. She informed us of issues that I had never heard about before and she inspired me to begin thinking beyond my rural upbringing," he says. Elizabeth Toolson saw an intelligence and ability in Dobbs he couldn't see for himself. He hadn't even considered a college education because it was financially prohibitive. Still, he took her advice and applied for a scholar ship to Harvard. No one was more surprised than Dobbs when he got it.

Dobbs says he will never forget the morning his father drove him in his pick-up truck to the train station north of town, which seemed like the middle of nowhere. Dobbs sensed that not only was he headed for Boston, he was headed for a new life. "I had my suitcases and I was dressed in jeans and cowboy boots when I said goodbye. As we traveled east the towns kept getting bigger. We went through Denver, Chicago, and then on into Boston. By the time I got there I was completely disoriented. The farthest east I'd ever been was Laramie, Wyoming." Even in culture shock, however, Dobbs loved Boston. He finally stopped looking at the horizon to see mountains in the distance as he began to accept the city's skyscrapers and more formal lifestyle. During his first month of school one professor asked each student where they were from. When Dobbs told him he was from Rupert, Idaho, the professor said, "Mr. Dobbs, that's the heart of the cultural wasteland." Dobbs says he didn't argue with the man. "That was the beginning for me," he recalls. "Part of it was intimidating, but I found it challenging."

Even though his background was vastly different from most of his classmates, Dobbs felt well-prepared for the challenges at Harvard. After attending a debate at MIT between economists Paul Samuelson and Milton Friedman, Dobbs came away invigorated. "I was absolutely mesmerized by Friedman. For the first time I had a sense of the relationship between economics and politics and the importance of a political system, an economic system, and their relationships. That night I understood the relationship between capitalism and democracy in terms that I carry with me to this day," says Dobbs. He made his major economics and set about getting all he could out of his time at Harvard.

During his senior year, however, Dobbs was devastated with the sudden death of his father. "His death took away my direction for a time," says Dobbs. "It took me several years to sort out what I was going to do." For a time after graduation Dobbs worked with at-risk children. He also did sensitivity training, worked with the National Alliance of Businessmen, and worked on pilot projects for the urban unemployed for the Department of Labor. Needing a larger income, he took a job in Los Angeles with Union Bank. Dobbs worked on the first cash management systems for corporations, including Alcoa and Pittsburgh Plate Glass. Over the course of the next two years Dobbs was successful, but didn't feel fulfilled. He surprised everyone when he began talking about becoming a reporter. " Everyone I knew who was a reporter," says Dobbs, " seemed to be having a lot more fun." When he gave his notice at the bank his supervisor thought he was crazy to give up a career that would be financially rewarding for one that was not. But Dobbs told him money wasn't important.

His first news job took him to Yuma, Arizona, working as a police and fire reporter for $75 a week, a pay cut of about 80 percent from his banking days. Right away, Dobbs knew he was doing what he was meant to do. Rising at 4 a.m., he reviewed the police reports, talked to the sheriffs, deputies, and firemen, then ran to get on the air by 6 a.m. "Those were the days," says Dobbs, "when there were a number of strikes with the United Farm Workers Union, and there was drug intervention with the DEA. There was a lot of excitement." His work got him noticed and two years later he was the news anchor for Channel 8 in Phoenix. A short time later he was picked up by JUNG-TV in Seattle, where he worked as a news anchor and business reporter. Within four years CNN began making offers to Dobbs, who at first was not interested. "I liked what I was doing and I wasn't sure 24 hours of news could work. At the time, Ted Turner (a 1997 Horatio Alger Award recipient) wasn't recognized as a world class television programmer. Now, of course, we see him as a visionary," says Dobbs, who finally went to Atlanta and liked what he saw. He started with CNN in 1980 as the chief economics correspondent and anchor of "Moneyline." Dobbs remembers that when they went on the air, Ted Turner had put up three flags outside the station: the United States flag, the Georgia state flag, and the United Nations flag. "Ted told us," says Dobbs, "that the UN flag was up there because 'we're an international network.' That doesn't sound surprising today when we're in 210 countries and territories, but then we had 1.3 million viewers and they were all in the United States. The idea of sending a signal around the world was just as alien then as the idea of being on satellite broadcasting 24 hours of news. None of us dreamed that we would be so successful, with perhaps the exception of Ted Turner."

Today, Dobbs, who is now executive vice president of CNN and president of CNNfn, the financial network, knows he is doing what he wants to do. He says, "There's an old Chinese expression that goes: If you enjoy your work, you'll never have a job. Since the day I became a journalist, I haven't had a job." Dobbs says he tries to work each day with three rules, which he shares with his colleagues at CNN:

1. Break news

2. Take care of each other

3. Have fun.

In fact, when Dobbs gives advice to young adults the tells them, "Listen to all the platitudes and clichés you hear. There's a reason for them." At the same time, Dobbs reflects on the many career starts he had until he found his niche in news and adds, " Don't be afraid to have fun."

Dobbs tries to keep a balance in his life. In 1993 he was named Father of the Year by the National Father's Day Committee. "My family is the most important part of my life," he says. "I have a great wife and four terrific kids. It doesn't get any better than that."

Dobbs believes that the children of this nation are very important, and his charitable giving focuses on children. He explains, "It is with children that you can have the greatest impact and where you can help the most when it is most needed."

Dobbs has set up a scholarship at Minidoka High School in Rupert, Idaho, for students who would not be able to pursue a college education without the help of a financial award. He has never forgotten that without the help of his scholarship, his career would not have been possible. "That's why I am so excited about my Horatio Alger Award," he says. "Being involved with the Association will give me more opportunities to mentor and give support to our nation's deserving youth."
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. even if any of that is true at all, it doesn't mean shit. He is a sellout now,
and he is working to keep the status quo for the wealthy.

You and many here may actually be naive enough to think he gives a rat's ass about the middle class, just because he mentions it six times a day on his ads for his program. But he is just using you, like tools, for ratings because he knows you will buy it.
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. You are the one being used.
The big money boys and the repukes love the immigrants. They can pay them peanuts with zero benefits. The more the merrier. Real wages for median income workers are falling dramatically, and you support it. Construction workers who use to make $10.00 an hour in my area have been replaced with Mexicans making $5.15 an hour. Some work for $4.00 an hour under the table. Keep it up. The repukes love people like you. The owner of the roofing company that did my neighbor's house brags about the extra $100,000 a year he makes off immigrant workers. He pays them minimum wage compared to $8.00 an hour he use to pay. Same story for the landscape company a couple of miles away. They're raking in the bucks paying lower wages than 10 years ago.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. if illegals weren't doing it for minimum wage, Americans would be. Rest assured
but don't let me interrupt your scapegoating session here.
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. That is bullshit
Besides selling stuff on eBay, the only money I make is working for contractors. They tell me the stories, and the workers do also. I live in a rural area where almost all of the entry-level and part-time construction and landscaping jobs have been taken by immigrants. It's been especially bad for young African-Americans from poor families who use to work these jobs. Many worked their way out of poverty or saved enough to go to college or trade school. Those jobs now go to the Mexicans who will work for lower wages, keep their mouth shut, and even take below minimum wage for cash under the table. I see it every day, so don't tell me what's happening in the real world. The standard of living for median income workers and the working poor is falling like a rock. One of the reasons is the excess of cheap labor. It's a case of supply and demand. If you can't understand that, then you need help.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Right, so these people who are barely making it are offered a $5.15/hr job, they are gonna reject it
I was waiting for you to use the old "supply and demand" bullshit.

Why is that term always thrown around by those with minimal understanding of the concepts of that theory?
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. If supply and demand doesn't work
then why are real wages falling for the working poor? It's because of the influx of people (supply) willing to work for shit wages! Cut off the fucking supply of cheap labor, and the fucking price for labor goes up!!! Before the immigrants started taking these jobs in my area, wages were higher. When you factor "real" inflation compared to the fed's "core" inflation, they were much higher.

It's obvious you love this influx of people willing to work for nothing. How much money did you send to RNC? The contractors in my area are sending them record amounts. They want more cheap labor from south of the border, and Bush is not going to stop the supply anytime soon.
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
55. Hmm... I think that illegal workers earning slave wages is what keeps that status quo nt
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ToeBot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
42. And this makes a difference, how?
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
46. Lou Dobbs doesn't rail against Mexicans, he rails against illegal
immigration, and rightfully so:
I've been watching towns here in AZ being slowly destroyed by illegal immigration.
It's not good for anybody...well, except Corporate America.
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Jim Warren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
48. Very likely his spouse influences his opinion
Edited on Mon May-07-07 11:26 AM by Jim Warren
My wife, a legal immigrant from Mexico from over twenty years ago, has a very hard-nosed view for most of what she sees going on today in regard to illegal immigration from anywhere. She worked very hard and went through the lengthy immigration process, feels slighted by people waltzing over borders without regard. Actually, I think it a prevailing and under-reported sentiment among many legal immigrants, at least the majority of her contacts whom have like status.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
49. Ah, so he and Strom Thurmond have a few things in common.
:shrug:
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. His wife agrees with his views.
She was on the show and actually said that she wishes he'd pund the issue harder sometimes. I don't think racism is Dobb's motive.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Yeah, I'm sure he's got lots of Mexican friends.
"I don't think racism is Dobb's motive."

I do.
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