Would this be a good time to push for a change to presidential pardon powers?

[Marr]

It's pretty obvious to anyone watching the news that Bush is going to be pardoning some of his cronies on his way out the door. Pardon power is the strongest card this president has for keeping the crimes of his administration a secret. If he can simply pardon the perps on his way out, they'll keep their mouths shut and cope with a little legal hassle in the interim.

He doesn't care how unpopular such a move would be, of course- he's not going to run for office again.

So why not push for a change to the executive's pardon powers...? Something as simple as, say, he can't pardon anyone for at least 5 years after conviction, or even better- he can't pardon anyone from his own administration.

Even if such a move wouldn't gain the necessary support for an ammendment, it'd be a worthwhile public debate, as it would put the looming Bush pardons out in the open ahead of time, and force Republican politicians to defend Bush's right to pardon his cronies. It'd tie them closer to both Bush, and Bush's crimes.

[frogcycle]

1. it would be easier to impeach him than to get an amendment passed

[Marr]

6. Who's to say we won't have another GW in a few years?

Limitations should've been put on presidential pardons back when Ford pardoned Nixon. I really think that, had that been done, GW Bush would already have been impeached. His loyal inner circle wouldn't be nearly so willing to lie under oath or test the limits of Executive authority if they thought there might be some legal consequences that the boss couldn't pardon them out of.

[frogcycle]

21. oh i agree

Pardons are bullshit. Should not exist withou consent of congress.

But you seemed to think changing the constitution would stop bush - THAT's not gonna happen. Takes FAR too long.

[Jim Sagle]

2. Forget symbolism. Just tell him point blank that any attempt to pardon his own regime thugs will be

automatically considered a high crime.

[shraby]

3. I favor an amendment that states the president

can't pardon anyone in his/her administration. I have wanted to see it happen since Bush I pardoned the Iran/Contra bunch. I didn't like Ford pardoning Nixon either. Both instances were a travesty.

[tabasco]

12. I like that idea.

Malfeasance by government employees in their official capacities should not be pardonable.

[Grandrose]

4. Not so fast!

When we have a Democrat president in office, should we limit his/her authority? :shrug:

[Marr]

5. Absolutely. I don't want Democratic politicians pardoning their own cronies, either.

[Lerkfish]

10. agreed. I think it should be limited against any case in which the prez could be involved

on some level....even a judge has to recuse themselves if there is a conflict of interest. No pardons should occur that constitute a conflict of interest: pardoning Libby would be a conflict of interest since Bush is probably involved in the crime.

[Grandrose]

16. Who defines the "cronies"?

I agree we should be held to a higher standard than the Bush cabal! I just do not want my Democrat president short changed, based on what this retched administration may do!
And yes, President Clinton made a mistake, but I forgive him anyway!:dilemma:

[Marr]

17. Anyone in his administration is definitely a crony. Anyone acting

on his behalf is also a crony. I don't think a public official should be allowed to pardon people for crimes they themselves may have been involved in.

[Grandrose]

19. Totally agree!

:thumbsup: :)

[acmavm]

13. Damn straight we should. Does the name Marc Rich sound familiar?

[Ghost in the Machine]

18. Yes, absolutely. I've been thinking about the same thing for a while now, but haven't

put it down on paper. We need to drastically change the Pardons Powers so that criminals like Dumbya and anyone after him can't run a rampant criminal regime because they know they can pardon themselves and their cronies.

We should just do away with the Presidential Powers of Pardon altogether, or severly limit who can be pardoned (no members of your own administration) and what they can be pardoned for ( no pardons for crimes against our Country or our Constitution).

Just my 2 cents worth.

I don't want to see a Dem president with unitary executive powers either, or committing the crimes that the BushCheney Criminal Cabal are and getting away with it.

I just had one of my very republican customers tell me this morning that "what this Country needs is a new revolution to run them ALL out of Washington and start over, because they are ALL corrupt beyond repair".... he also agreed that politicians favor their corporate masters over We, The People... Repubs are starting to wake up, and they are ALL SICK of this misadministration. I see it every day

My jaw hit the floor :jawdrop:

[LiberalFighter]

7. Have a bi-partisan panel to approve or not approve the pardon

With criteria to follow.

Pardons only for crimes committed and convicted.
Pardons would prohibit one from serving in any capacity of federal government if crime was federal related.


Feel free to add on or modify.

[Marr]

8. "prohibit one from serving in any capacity of federal government if crime was federal related."

Fantastic idea. That'd make the pardon even more prohibitive than a few years of jail time. It'd cut these permanent-government sorts, like Cheney, off at the knees. They'd avoid that like the plague.

[soothsayer]

9. Nah. Life needs a 'get out of jail free' card somewhere.

[Lerkfish]

11. sure. let's start with gitmo.

since they aren't charged with any crime, cannot talk to lawyers, and can be held indefintely without trial and be constantly tortured, don't you think they deserve a "get out of jail free" card MORE than the white collar republican cronies?

[RL3AO]

14. Dont change it.

If a governor can pardon someone, I think the president should be able to as well.

[OHdem10]

15. A Democratic President may need to exercise

this power in the future. IMO, there are some powers
a president needs if we disagree with how he uses
them.

It could look like we are just pilingon and thus
the Media would stop treating other issues seriously.

[Spinzonner]

20. Should be unofficially called the "Bush Amendment"

and without specifying which Bush

[camero]

22. Maybe making a pardon with congressional authorization?

Maybe a little check and balance would be good here. :shrug: