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IScreamSundays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 02:55 PM
Original message
Judge backs Redding atheist who balked at religious anti-drug program
Source: Sacramento Bee


Barry A. Hazle Jr. served a year in prison on a drug charge. After he got out, his parole agent sent him back for being an atheist.

Now, the 41-year-old Redding computer technician has won a ruling from a Sacramento federal judge against the state and stands to collect damages for having his constitutional rights violated.

Even before U.S. District Judge Garland E. Burrell Jr. decided in his favor last week, California corrections officials had issued a new policy protecting the rights of atheist parolees.

"This has been a long and painful process for me," Hazle said in a statement through his attorney this week. "The judge's ruling can't give me back my lost freedom, but it begins to restore my faith in our judicial system."



Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/04/17/2685285/judge-backs-redding-atheist-who.html#ixzz0nelrheKY

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/04/17/2685285/judge-backs-redding-atheist-who.html
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, that's good
Though he deserves a few months for that beard, at least :rofl:
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bora13 Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. I totally know where this guy is coming from
I am enrolled in a court-ordered alcohol class for a 1st time DUI.
They push AA heavily. One week our assigment was to attend an AA meeting.
I put up a little fuss, but not enough to get thrown out. After attending the meeting we were to
write a two page review of the meeting.
needless to say, mine was riddled with suttle remarks of disgust.

Apparently the privatized alcohol rehabs really dig these "free" AA meetings
and reap nice profits on not having to come up with any useful curriculum.

Best just to stay off the road if you have been drinking at all.
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GillesDeleuze Donating Member (841 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. there are secular alternatives
you can always contact ffrf.org and they will fight on your behalf.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. The problem is the AA has the best reputation in helping Alcoholics
Now, some of that reputation is based on the fact AA is religious based (Through NOT tied in with any one religion, just a belief in God and to look to God for support in one's fight against Alcoholism) and that religious dogma is viewed by many people as needed to help someone over come alcoholism. On the other hand many judges just like what they have seen when it comes to people who had gone through AA (and stay in AA after they dried out).

One of the chief reason AA is so successful is it does two things quite well, first is get people together who have something in common (one of the characteristics of being human is we talk to each other all the time about things we have in common, if you have nothing in common you do NOT talk and do NOT becomes friends). An example of this is from the 1800s, two Irish groups, one from Northern Ireland of mixed Catholic and Protestants and the other from Southern Ireland, all Catholic, were building two different railroads near each other. When one groups of workers of these two groups meet another group of workers from the other, it almost always ended up in a fight for neither group had anything in common with the other to talk about. This conflict lasted for weeks, if not months, then it finally broke down when both groups were off work and in the same town at the same time. This resulted into a near riot as the two groups went after each other do to all the tension that had been building up between the two groups for months. This riot was broken up, but a funny thing happened afterward, whenever members of each group meet each other afterward sooner or later the talk ended up in what they did during the big riot. No more fights occurred for finally the two groups had something in common to talk about, what any of them did during the big fight.

AA is working on the same principal, the AA get people together who have something in common, they history of alcohol abuse. This is the common topic the members have in common, it gives them something to talk about and they talk about avoiding alcohol abuse. This lead to the second and related item AA does, it provides a new network of friends for the ex-alcoholic. People deal with people like themselves, people they have something in common with. Alcoholics (and drug addicts) tend to have friends who are alcoholic and drug addicts. The ex-alcoholic needs new friends, but people develop friendships with people they can talk to given what they have in common. In the above example, the railroad workers had nothing in common till they had the big fight, then they could talk to each about what they had in common, what they did in the big fight. The same with ex-alcoholics and the AA, it provides a place for ex-alcoholics can meet other ex-alcoholics and develop new friends. Only with the development of new friends can one drop your old friends, and in the case of AA members the old friends are active alcoholics (or even causal drinkers) with whom the ex-alcoholic had in common was the use and abuse of alcohol.

Thus AA does two things quite well, first it provides a way to get new friends (based on the fact the ex-alcoholics have something in common, they abuse of alcohol) AND a mechanism to DROP old friends (Friends the ex-alcoholic needs to drop for they were friends do to the fact what they had in common was the abuse of alcohol).

AA has a better reputation on this score then anyone else, mostly because it is a voluntary group (some people are court ordered to join, but the AA does NOT enforce such membership through the AA does give out certificates of attendance). I suspect other groups can provide a similar program, but from what I have heard, no one has the record of the AA. The AA is constantly attacked do to its emphasis on religion, but the AA does NOT force people to join it.

Now, a lot of Judges have seen the help the AA has does since it was founded in the 1930s and will order people to go to AA meetings hoping it will help. I suspect the same thing in going on in this case, the probation officer has seen good things out of AA and thus have more faith in AA in helping the Alcoholic then any other group.

Just pointing out that the impression of many people in the field, i.e. people who are dealing with alcoholic in the legal field, is that the AA provides a very good service and for that reason is their first choice. They will consider others, but the person on probation has to come up with the program AND hopefully a program near their home (AA has meetings almost any where almost every day of the week, and thus such meetings can fit almost anyone's schedule, another factor in any Judge/Probation officers outlook when it comes to getting someone "help" for their addiction.

For more on the AA:
http://www.aa.org/?Media=PlayFlash
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drmeow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Actually, there is no scientific evidence
that AA works better than any other program and AA has usually blocked efforts to empirically test their treatment program. There are numerous scientific criticisms of AA, not merely its "spiritual" component. Many of the people in the field tend to prefer AA because many people in the field are recovering and did so through AA. The current theory is that there are are multiple types of alcoholics and, like any illness or disorder, the treatment needs to be a good match for the type of disorder.
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. AA doesn't have any beneficial effects at all.
Controlled studies have shown, time and time again, that either with or without AA, the one-year relapse rate is 95%. In other words, whether or not an alcoholic goes to AA makes no difference, after a year, only 5% are still sober.

People like you who proselytize for AA are the only reason it's thought of so highly. Your organization is a cult, and it's impeding the medical treatment of alcohol addiction by polluting a legitimate medical field with a bunch of religious nonsense.
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. very good
It's a shame we have to go to court for protection, and even then don't always get it.
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. The Police State...
Wow...sent him back because he did NOT have religion?

And exactly which religion...and who's version of said religion, was he supposed to have?

Is it any wonder that we are supposed to, actually NEED to, have separation of church and state!

Hey...and I like the goatee-thingy. :-)

GO Dude! You've got my support to make your own decisions about a spiritual thing.
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Heywood J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. Uh, the link is from April 17th, and it's appeared here before.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Yes, and should be moved to general discussion or deleted
Rules are Rules, and we need Latest Breaking News to be just that, something recent NOT last month.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
On http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=247289&mesg_id=247291">another thread, someone was remarking recently about how much they missed "the atheists of old" who were supposedly amicable, educated, smart and rational people willing to debate but live and let live.

You know whom they're speaking of don't you? The kind of person who would have just sat there and said nothing out of fear of being ridiculed and/or ostracized.

- Thank god those kind of atheists are now in the background where they belong......









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1czXvHSjDac&feature=related''">Religion is god's way of telling us that he doesn't exist.'' ~ Pat Condell, God is not enough
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. K/R
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