The French must always have their National ID..police demand ID papers of African or Arab descent...

[pampango]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/04/essay-question-is-az-more-like-china-or-like-france/39682/

"The truly entertaining bit about the new papers-please regime in Arizona is that it's actually harder for Americans to demonstrate that they're legally in the US than it is for anyone else: to a zeroth-order approximation, no American has a passport (the most recent figure I've seen is 25%) or citizenship card, let alone carries it with them. Driver's licenses and social security cards don't demonstrate anything about the holder's legal presence. In contrast, someone who is illegally in Arizona and might well already have an illicit social security card has little downside to acquiring knockoffs of whatever documents the local authorities want: I predict Arizona's next booming industry will be forgery."

"I empathize with your misgivings over legislation that would allow law enforcement officers the right to demand identity papers from whomever they meet in the street. Meaning that an individual must have on him or her/ self her national ID card or a passport (for a foreigner). That is the case of France where I live. The French must always have their National ID card on them - for the police can demand to see it at any and all times.

Foreigners, in principle, must always have a piece of ID on them - like a passport. I never carry this with me - in 14 years of living here, I've never had my passport on me except when I've been on my way to the airport and going abroad. But I'm white and look (sometimes sound) French of Gaullish stock. The police, in the vast majority of cases, stop and demand ID papers from youngish (under 40) males of African or Arab descent, be they French nationals or no.

It is not a well-looked upon practice of the police, but the French aren't adamant enough against it to seek its abolition. As far as I understand, such identity checks have been a long staple of police work in France going back to the Revolutionary/Napoleonic era wherein the State underwent a reinforcement of its prerogatives over the citizenry."

[Confusious]

1. For the Nth +1 time

The law requires you to prove "LEGAL RESIDENCE", which, in the state of Arizona, is a DRIVERS LICENSE.

When you get your drivers license, you must provide proof that you are here legally. It is the same in 43 other states.

The card now has a hologram on it, and a magnetic strip with your information. The information is protected by 128 bit encryption. The police, and some stores, can run it through a scanner to check that the info is valid. If it isn't, well, you might have a problem.

[FormerDittoHead]

8. Yes. It was MUCH easier to get a passport than my drivers license.

In my experience, my NJ driver's license is the "gold standard" for identity. It has two pictures and two holograms.

You need 6 "points" of getting an ID for getting a drivers license:

http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Licenses/DocumentSelector/index.htm

[pinboy3niner]

2. "the right to demand identity papers from whomever they meet in the street"

A week after Gov. Brewer signed the anti-immigrant bill, she signed a bill amending it.

The amendments, HB 2162, drop the original provisions for enforcement based on anybody having "contact" with the police. Instead, the law was changed to apply to anyone the police "stop, detain or arrest." (This change appears to have been motivated, in large part, to answer objections that crime victims and witnesses would be subjected
to the "lawful presence" proof requirement. It was particularly objectionable that a rape victim could end up being jailed and/or deported as a result of simply reporting the crime--and thus having police "contact.")

At the same time as it limited enforcement to "stop, detain or arrest," the amendments bill created an EXCEPTION that expands enforcement beyond those criteria. One provision of the amendments expands the scope of enforcement to apply, as well, to anyone involved in a municipal or county code violation. (This could include, for example, anyone who is the subject of an inquiry into complaints about barking dogs, overgrown lawns, cars up on blocks in the yard, or an excessive number of occupants in a dwelling.)

Brewer made much of the fact that the amended bill also specifically bars race from being considered by cops in deciding whether to inquire about immigration status, "except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution." This provision is esentially meaningless, however. The law essentialy REQUIRES racial profiling in order to be enforced, because there is no other basis upon which to make a determination of reasonable suspicion.

[Echo In Light]

3. Are these BIOMETRIC ID cards?

[Mass]

4. The law was not written in order to track undocumented workers. It has existed for years.

The law in AZ was written specifically to go after people of Hispanic origin.

Sure, the law in France is not well liked, but it is also not a big deal because people are used to it because it goes way back. It is not the same thing in this country.

[doc03]

5. I served in the US Army with many Americans

of Hispanic origin and many have died or been disabled in Vietnam and other wars. Watch This Week on ABC Sunday morning when they run the names of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, I bet you will see several names of Hispanic origin. I ask should a person that put their life on the line for their country be required to "Show Your Papers" when he comes home? What about the white immigrants that came from eastern Europe, what about their papers are they here legally?

[Mass]

6. I totally agree. I was trying to make the point that the French law is in a different context as it

was written centuries ago. The AZ law is not the same thing.

[JCMach1]

7. I live in the UAE- country of 4 Million- that already has a scannable

visa which goes into your passport. For the last 4 years they have been instituting a National ID system.

Their biometric National ID has been hell to implement. They are still at it and it will take another 4 years before they are anywhere close to the % they need to get.

You think you hate DMV lines, just wait!

Also, the bureaucracy needed to pull this together is mind-numbing and EXPENSIVE.

That's without even getting into the privacy issues involved...

So, frankly, this gets a big HELL NO!