Too many chiefs and not enough indians, my ramblings.

[greencharlie]

Hope I didn't offend anyone with the Chiefs/Indians reference...

But here goes...

When I was in school... I'm in my mid-40's.

You'd look around the class and you'd see 11 factory workers, 8 administrators, 3 nare do wells, 2 teachers and 2 CEO's and a Doctor.

I'm sure you can understand what I mean... not EVERYONE is cut out for grad-school.

Back then... there was nothing wrong with becoming an auto mechanic or a chef or even a waitress. But it seems that in the last decade you hear threats from parents, "Junior, keep up those grades and you'll be mopping floors at the factory."

All we hear is education, education, education... be ALL you can be, reach for the top. So higher education has flourished financially...

I don't want to sound like a Socialist or a Communist... BUT in their systems, the youth were identified early on for their skills, strengths and aptitude. And then they were directed into an appropriate career.

A personal example... when I was in college I knew SEVERAL kids who were there because mon and dad expected them to go and they got to live at home and were supported financially. A couple of them were under academic suspensionwithin a semester or two and went home. A few more struggled through, didn't learn a damn thing but stuck around long enough to pass their classes and get degrees. So the "real world" starts making degrees prerequisite for hiring... even if the degree has NOTHING to do with the job. And these people end up falling into jobs.

So what am I ranting about?

Does everyone need to have a Masters Degree? Should everyone TRY? Why the surge of undocumented immigrants? Maybe because some American kid grew up with his mom saying "If you don't study, you'll work in the fields"... Well guess what, people DO have to work in fields. People have to work in fields, mines, factories and on the streets.

Is our culture suffering from a couple generations of kids who expect to be CEO's and Managers when their internal wiring makes them better "indians"?

[FSogol]

1. Why would you wish an unskilled factory job on anyone?

My family has been in the US for 3 generations. My grandfather was an started as a coal miner, became an undertaker and then a brewer. My Dad was a Cop. I was the first to go to college and became an Engineer. My oldest son is at college studying design and my younger son wants to go to medical school. Should I encourage them to work in fields or factories instead because book learn' ain't for everyone? Look at US history. There has always been an immigrant population willing to do the drone work. Their kids and their kid's kids expect better things.

[LiberalLoner]

2. Awesome post! I agree with you and am about the same age as you...

I never did understand why it seemed to become a shameful thing to be a technician like a plumber or electrician as opposed to getting an MBA.

From my point of view, I always thought that anyone who earned an honest living was doing something honorable and shouldn't have to feel ashamed.

But it seems like in the last few decades, it's considered "not good enough" by parents and by people in general. I don't understand that at all. I don't see why it isn't just as honorable to earn a living with your hands as with an advanced degree.

I also don't understand why people seem to judge people so much on what they make and what possessions they have. I wish we cared more about whether or not they are good people or help others, you know?

[izquierdista]

5. It has to do with Americans' overidentification with work

Every time you are introduced to someone in America, within 3 minutes the conversation gravitates to "so what do you do"? If you shovel shit, you have to add that you are just shoveling now until you get your big acting break or finish paying your way through law school. Your work is your status, and desk work has more status than manual labor.

When asked "what do you do?", I respond with "I'm very good at doing lunch", and steer the conversation to global warming or the benefits of backyard chickens. I refuse to get involved with people who want to compare measurements, whether it is bank accounts, dick size, or credit score.

[LiberalLoner]

7. I love it! What a brilliant reply! Can I use it, LOL? :) n/t

[greencharlie]

8. well...

part of why I feel this way is personal experience.

I have a 16 year old son. From day ONE I said "I will MAKE this kid into a successful MAN"

Figured I was OK DNA-wise... I'm a 145-150ish IQ kinda' guy, 1400+ SAT (old skool grade system) and am a successful entrepreneur. And his mom (ex-wife), while no genius... was average, not an idiot.

Well... we started with early practice of speech, heavy reading... some educational DVD's and a good pre-school. We graduated up to talking together about real world issues, the kind of things I was sure he wasn't getting in school. So as he got into school... 3rd grade... 4th and 5th... we CONSTANTLY spoke about the importance of getting good grades, did homework together... the whole "9 yards". I had COMPLETE control of this kid, controlled the games he played, friends he had... set him up PERFECTLY to be a scholar.

So he's 16 right now... how is he?

He's dumb as a bag of fuckin' rocks. Lol, but seriously... he is.

He has no common sense and is not good in school. He will FIND WAYS it seems to fail in school. Not on purpose mind you... he's not trying to spite me. I've seen him spend 10 hours in a week working on a Geometry chapter... went over all the practie questions together, answered all questions and thought he was prepared. And he'll bring home a 64/100.

Sigh... when I was in school, I was a pirahna. I asked the teacher about my class ranking, I'd ask the teacher if I got the highest grade in the class... it was a game for me. I asked one of Junior's teachers once "Doesn't Junior want to be better than the other kids in the class?"

Her answer was "Junior doesn't want to be better than anyone... he just wants to be everyone's friend."

So at this point... hes not goin' to college,

[LiberalLoner]

9. I hope your son has a happy life and an abundance of everything he needs in life, no matter

what his career path turns out to be. I hope that the angels will look after him and protect him.

[greencharlie]

10. thanks, that's very kind. nt

[izquierdista]

11. Work on his sex life

Then, when you have grandchildren, you will see what skipped a generation.

[dana_b]

12. I understand that completely

my daughter could spend hours trying to learn algebra formulas but it just doesn't sink in. She's been tutored, has taken special classes and stil could not retain the info. Now get her into a creative writing class or even a history class - then she shines.

Now her love is food. She has taken some culinary classes at a community, college worked in a restaurant and has aspirations to open a coffee house where she roasts her own coffee, invents special coffee and tea drinks and creates special pastries for a multitude of customers including vegan, gluten free and sugar free pastries and snacks.

Big dreams but she has the creative streak in her as well as the drive to be able to do it.

Not everyone fits into the college trek nor should they be forced to do so. I think you'll be doing your son a favor. If he decides to go, community college is a great place to start!

[dmallind]

3. It's a problem with a few aspects

Yes parental pressure is one. And hiring standards are another. But you can add to that the fetishism of "self-esteem" that waits far too long to let kids know they are either incapable of advanced education or not putting in enough effort to make it, so that they can prepare for a future that does not need such an education. Schools stopped ranking and streaming kids into different academic groups as a basic practice, and nobody corrected Debbie Dumbass all those years she thought she was "smart" despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Then you have absurdly easy entry requirements for universities. In most western countries the challenge is being accepted into one. Here the (variably demanding) challenge is graduating. Everybody or at least the vast majority in the US ARE smart enough to get into non-elite universities. They just fail.

Then that variably demanding bit bites us, Employers demand graduate degrees or get selective about schools because some schools will graduate people clearly not at the appropriate level academically, forcing companies to spend a fortune finding that out. It's much easier to demand multiple degrees or skim for quality schools, which in turn incentivizes that educational path.

Of course there is the very real reduction in opportunities for solid incomes without education. Especially if you are not gifted with your hands or mechanically inclined. Craftsmen and mechanics can make decent money, but the poor schlubs for whom camshafts are as confusing as Camus? Not a lot of financial opportunity in unskilled and semiskilled labor any more. Who can really blame them for trying to get the office jobs if they can?

But even if you ARE mechanically inclined we don't have as good a system for vocational training as say Germany. Union apprenticeships are tougher to get than PhD's especially if you are not a "legacy" applicant. Most employers scorn the 'technical institutes" etc. Not a lot of companies will pay for long term training programs to make the non-academics into journeyman welders or machinists (both of which incidentally are in short supply even in this labor market).

I don't have a great solution really, but I would start with accrediting trade schools as rigorously as academic ones and then giving student loans and grants etc for them just the same, and streaming kids by academic ability (with mobility of course) very early.

[Echo In Light]

4. As 'Chief' positions dwindle & are directed to those whose lives are tailored toward it...

... the need to expand the promotion of something basically unattainable for the majority need be implemented for a host of propagandistic/ideological reasons ... and a college 'education' then becomes a racket, too.

[Wapsie B]

6. This holds true in many industries, education and healthcare included.

Aside from giving the graduates an education focused on one subject area such as music or law many jobs that now require a Masters degree are in professions that are intent on protecting their turf and the higher paying jobs in them. The powers that be erected higher barriers of entry.