The second day into ubuntu 10.04 LTS

[madokie]

and no updates needed yet. How many times has micro$haft rolled out a new release that went this smoothly.
This has to be the best operating system out there today bar none.


http://www.ubuntu.com/

[Warpy]

1. I'd like it better if I could get it to play nicely with Linksys.

All I had to do with Win 7 was turn it on and enter the password.

[madokie]

6. I wish I had some answers for you

Cause you are really missing out on one hell of a slick operating system here.

[Warpy]

10. Oh, I like what I see

I just can't get online with it.

Not yet.

Eventually they'll get sick of the slings and arrows all over the web from equally frustrated people and put out some damn drivers.

[madokie]

13. I'll be pulling for you then

have you tried installing 10.04 yet or just trying it from the CD? When it was in beta I downloaded and burned a copy and rebooted into it and when I was just trying to run it from the cd it didn't find my router but when I installed it it worked fine. Could that be the case?
Anyways don't let me talk you into anything that you may regret later as that is not good for you or for me. :hi:

Thanks for the kicks as it helps to get it out there for others to see. I'm really put out by the micro$ofts farming out of most of their legal department, being the last I read about, and some of the development work to India. We need these jobs here being done by Americans and not by H1B workers like they have so many of and are asking for more the last I read.

From turn on to full boot and I mean ready to go, no hard drive activity still, takes 10 seconds or so with ubuntu 10.04 and about 2 or 3 seconds to shut down. I also notice that my hard drive light doesn't come on nearly as often as it did with xp and or with the pre-release development version of seven when it was a free download.

[sudopod]

20. There's an issue with some Ralink based wifi cards

I get some of that too. :p

[Greyhound]

36. Check drivers provided by the chip manufacturer, I've had great luck

w/both Linux and Windoze wireless receivers.

[nebenaube]

2. Their download sites are getting hit hard though...

US: download was progressing at 19-29 KB/sec vs. Netherlands download now progressing at 130-350 KB/sec...

[madokie]

7. I downloaded it as soon as it came out yesterday

and It only took 40 minutes and I'm on a slow and over priced dsl here in podunk oklahoma. I've been using it since it came out in alpha back in early December and just flat ass can't say enough good about it.

[meegbear]

3. The second day and no updates needed yet?????

Wow, I've never ever heard of any operating system that's gone that long without an update.

Praise Be!

[elocs]

4. I tried Ubuntu a year ago when I got my last computer and I don't like it.

When I want to do something I want to click the mouse and get it done and not have to use line commands and jump through hoops to get there.

Ubuntu is like the tv without a remote where you have to get up each time and go change the channel. I'd rather use the remote.

To be honest I have no problems with Windows or Microsoft however much some like to rail against them. I started out learning to use a pc with DOS and I'm happy to have left those days far behind.

[madokie]

5. Sorry but that isn't the rule

nor has it been the case with me. But I'm kind of a hands on computer nerd anyway though. This for me was a 40 minute download and a 22 minute install and I haven't had to do anything except tell it the time zone I live in, a name to log in with, no drivers to screw with no settings to tweak, just a smooth install and its like I have a new computer as its so much faster than my xp ever was :-)
No anti virus, no anti malware, no defragging, no CrapCleaners needed with ubuntu. Ubuntu works right straight from the download and install.

Its been a while since ubuntu has been anything like you describe. sorry that you had a bad experience. I started off with dos 3.1 back in '89 and worked my way up to xp, played with the new winblows 7 when it was in development and that is what made me give linux a serious try and once I did that after a few days I knew I'd never be going back to micro$haft. Once I figured out how to run AutoCad in linux by using wine I have no reason for a winblows machine ever again.

[elocs]

9. The thing is that I want simplicity, I don't want to write line commands to get things done.

I happily left that behind with DOS. I want to click the mouse and have it done.

I have not experienced trouble with Windows and I do not spend really any time at all doing maintenance. For me it is no big deal at all, even the updates. I had a Mac for 3 years and it needed updates as well.

When I bought the pc I am now using I did try Ubuntu right away and I had high hopes for it, but I was very disappointed and pretty much left it behind. I do have Ubuntu on an 8 year old pc that I use for just in case, but I only use it to check email and get online.

I think with Linux you either love it or hate it and there is little middle ground.

[madokie]

11. Put me in the love it column :-)

Thats pretty much the way with windows too, isn't it? Love it or hate it. I stayed away from windows until I finally decided that maybe I should get on line so I had to buy a new computer that had win 98 on it. I never warmed up to windows until xp and then as more and more problems for me arose, virus and malware, I started looking at the linux distros but it took me quite a while to get serious about trying it and when I did, well the rest is history. :hi:

[JCMach1]

23. Exactly, Linux hasn't been that way in a LONG time... I use command lines

like once a year these days... and only if I am doing something exotic.

[RoyGBiv]

14. None of that is true ...

Command line tasks are often the most efficient way to get something done, but there isn't anything the average user does in most Linux environments that requires it.

[backscatter712]

22. I've found that recent versions of Ubuntu, and variants like Mint, don't need command-line hackery.

Ubuntu's got a very slick desktop, with all the apps you need, graphical tools to handle most adminstration tasks. I use the command line, but that's more because I'm an old-school Linux-head. The average non-geek doesn't have to use the command line.

[cliffordu]

25. But you really aren't using it, are you?

I'm using it on three different machines and have NONE of the issues you describe. NONE.

It's as easy as my wife's OSX machine.

I've been using LINUX since 1996 - and it used to be that you had to be facile with the command line to get anything done - but that's over now.

Try slamming something you actually use for a change.

[ConsAreLiars]

26. Hey friend, we're also on this same page.

As a poor typer using Linux Mint, I find it way more empowering to the user than the m$ interface. You had to be an expert to know how to get rid of all the shillware and malware that came installed with any machine you bought. When Amiga died I went there and used my skills (computer user since paper tape was storage) to keep from getting used as a sucker, something few can avoid with that OS.

For me, I installed LM on a newly built box while dreading both paying for W7 or arguing some hireling into OKing a move from the old OEM XP to the new box, I tried Linux Mint ( http://www.linuxmint.com/index.php ) after a few tries with other Linux variants, and got blown away. Way, way, way far better in every way. The fact that there is a terminal (like the CLI in Amiga) as well as a fully functional point-click desktop should be no deterrent. Eventually they will discover that it s often easier than clicking. And much more. Multiple workspaces and shared open sour e resources and Compiz eye-candy that is just happy-making delightful.

More than those who have never given freedom an option have ever imagined.

[elocs]

27. I'm sorry that you do not understand why all people do not like the same things.

No, I do not use it, but I did try it for months. I'm not slamming it (is this difficult to understand, really?), I just do not prefer it. I am hardly alone in that regard.

I'm also sorry that you do not understand how everyone does not have the same experiences using LINUX. Not everyone has the same experience using Windows either. I was open to trying Ubuntu on my then new computer (I even bought a $30 book to teach me how), but ultimately I did not like it. I have also found other Ubuntu/LINUX users who become very testy if you say you do not like it or are having problems with it, and that is less than helpful.

I'm happy you like LINUX and I'm happy for all who like using Ubuntu. You are part of a very small community of users compared to the rest so I can see how you might be defensive. I, like you, am not obligated to use something I do not prefer and I prefer Windows to LINUX. That is my choice and as Democrats we favor choice, don't we? :shrug:

[RoyGBiv]

28. That's not the point ...

The point is that your stated reasons for not liking it are false.

It's fine that you don't like it. What's not fine is spreading false information.

[cliffordu]

32. Yep. Exactly.

If he still had to type:

gzip -dc the_file_tar.gz | tar -xvf -

to get a compressed tarball set of files decompressed and ready to use,

Then the complainer would have something to complain about.

Linux used to be really hard stuff. Remember chat and chap scripts??

[high density]

8. huh?

Ubuntu dev team zap last-minute bug to release 'Lucid Lynx'

Ubuntu developers on Thursday surmounted a last-minute bug-fixing crisis to release Ubuntu Linux 10.04, codenamed Lucid Lynx, the operating system's first Long-Term Support version since April 2008.

The LTS versions are supported for three years and are positioned as the major releases. The last non-LTS release was Ubuntu 9.10, from October of last year.

The bug, which affected Ubuntu's ability to dual-boot alongside another operating system, was discovered just as the finished 10.04 installation disk images were about to be pushed out.

However, the developers realised that the dual-boot bug was likely to have a serious impact on first-time consumer users — the very users being targeted with Lucid Lynx. Newcomers would be likely to want to dual-boot and might struggle with the task of installing updates.

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/desktop-os/2010/04/30/ubuntu-dev-team-zap-last-minute-bug-to-release-lucid-lynx-40088824

Looks like this rollout was very close to being not so smooth for a lot of people.

[hobbit709]

15. Cheap as hard drives are now, why dual boot?

My system has 3 drives, each with its own OS. All I have to do is select which drive I want to boot from. Problem with dual booting from one drive is if something major glitches it's a real PITA to fix without just wiping and reinstalling.

[IDemo]

17. I triple boot from one drive.

XP Pro (only because some in the house are afraid to try anything else), Win7 64 bit, and Linux Mint.

EasyBCD makes it a snap.

[RoyGBiv]

42. GRUB 2

This is the only tangible reason I have right now for dual booting from the same drive. The new incarnation of the Grub boot loader still has some bugs that can make this a pain in the ass.

I ran into one of them on my recent build, and it sent me on a quest for Grub developers so I could strangle them. It'd require too much boring detail to explain the cause of the issue, but it boiled down to Grub not dealing well with trying to access the boot sector off an IDE drive with a SATA drive in the system as well. It will do it, but it takes trickery, and that is made even more difficult with the requirement in Grub 2 of running an updater before the changes you make to the config will stick, i.e. no more on-the-fly editing of /boot/grub/menu.lst.

So, in trying to explain to someone unfamiliar with things and/or someone who is terrified of the CLI, the best advice right now is either dual booting from one drive or making sure you're only using one type of drive in your system.

[MODem75]

12. I run Linux Mint

On my laptop and it works great. Very simple. I like it a little better than Ubuntu.

[IDemo]

16. Mint here, too

It is based on Ubuntu, but with a few additions that make it a more user-friendly experience.

[madokie]

18. And when the new version is released next month I'll be giving it a try too

as I've been bouncing back and forth with mint and ubuntu and until this version of ubuntu I liked mint better and that may be the case again with mint 9. Linux and open source is the key though.

[area51]

19. Hmm.

I uprated this thread and it's still at zero? A bunch of MS luvvers must've come by. :shrug:

Use Linux

Or FreeBSD.

[cliffordu]

34. Yep - I likes me some BSD, too...

I used openbsd for routers around the house for years.

[backscatter712]

21. I'm running it on my laptop.

So far, it's been very smooth. Graphics, compiz eye candy works great. Laptop features like suspend/hibernate work great, wi-fi Just Works, web browsing Just Works, I've been having for the most part smooth sailing.

Gripes: The Ubuntu One cloud storage service is having problems right now - uploads are insanely slow, due to problems on the server side. That and there's a couple cosmetic glitches - the CPU temperature monitor applet doesn't follow the theme, so it sticks out and looks ugly.

But overall, Lucid Lynx has been working pretty damned well.

[cliffordu]

24. Yep, yep and yep.

[elocs]

29. For all those who love Ubuntu, I am happy for you. This article sums up my Linux experience:

"Five crucial things the Linux community doesn't understand about the average computer user"

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=420&tag=col1;post-420

1 - On the whole, users aren’t all that dissatisfied with Windows

I had come off from over 3 years of using a Mac so having heard about Ubuntu I thought I would give it a try and I really did try. Ultimately I found Windows to be more simple for me and everything just worked fine. In other words, I was not dissatisfied with Windows.

2 - Too many distros
Want to know why more people don’t choose Linux? Here’s a clue for you:
Too many distros!
Put simply, there are just too many darn distros to choose from. Sure, put in some time and effort into research and experimentation and you’ll find a distro that works for you, but let’s face it Windows users are having a hard enough time now figuring out whether they should go for Vista Home Basic or Home Premium. Try and sum up the pros and cons of all the Linux distros and it just becomes far too complicated for users. Look at the Mac user numbers and ask what Mac got that Windows and Linux don’t - one choice.

That was my personal experience also. Different people have different experiences.

3 - People want certainty that hardware and software will work
Name me five bits of hardware that lists Linux as a supported system on the box. I’ve just had a look around the office and I can’t find a single thing that lists Linux explicitly (I think I got a USB key some time ago that mentioned Linux but I can’t be sure). Until we see hardware vendors shipping Linux drivers for hardware as standard, this will remain a nightmare for anyone who doesn’t have a sense of adventure.

It’s worse for software. Anyone making the leap from Windows to Linux has to start from scratch with regards to applications. That’s a much bigger undertaking than the Linux community gives credit for. Having to come up with an alternative for every application you use is a big job.

Again, my personal experience. Printer wouldn't work, cd ROM wouldn't work, couldn't watch YouTube. Had to do something to get everything it seemed. With Windows, things just worked for me.

4 - As far as most people are concerned, the command line has gone the way of the dinosaur
Linux users rave about the fact that under Linux you can dispense with the GUI and go back to the command line (even I like the power offered by the command line). But let’s face it, we “command line fans” are in the minority. For those old enough to remember DOS, most are glad than those days are over, for others bought up on Windows, it’s hard to explain the benefits of a command driven interface.

In an age where people find it hard to keep a few control key keyboard commands in their head for any length of time, the idea of switching to a command line system just doesn’t appeal to many people.

Contrary to what has been said here, this was myexperience also.

5 - Linux is still too geeky
Over the last few years there’s been a huge push to make some Linux distros easier to use, and when you look at a distro like Ubuntu, you realize that they’ve done a pretty good job. Problem is, there are some areas of the OS that are still overwhelmingly geeky (for example, updates).

The author of this 2007 article does not hate Ubuntu and expresses the same problems I had with Linux. It ends with:

Ubuntu is nice, it’s solid, it’s fast and it’s robust (so far anyway), but it’s also way too geeky in spots. Don’t get me wrong, overall Ubuntu is nice, friendly and convivial. But there are dark corners that absolutely reek of Linux geekdom cliquiness that average users aren’t going to feel at home in (I don’t feel at home there). Ubuntu updates are one such area where you need a high level of know-how to understand what’s going on.What the Ubuntu dev team need to do is find, I don’t know, 100 people who aren’t Linux geeks and stick them in front of the OS. Use these people to get feedback on different aspects of the OS. As soon as users start to look confused, scared or go bug-eyed then something needs tweaking. If your average home user is going to look at Ubuntu as an alternative to Windows or Mac, all these geeky corners have to be smoothed out.

Possibly the only thing as contentious as Windows/Mac is the Linux/everything else, but especially Windows. God help you if you tell a devoted Mac person that you prefer Windows and evidently the same is true with a Linux user. But if you love Linux, good for you! Just give the defensiveness a rest and the conviction that your choice is the right one for everyone.

[hobbit709]

30. That article was from 2007

How much stuff didn't work with Vista at the time.
From Ubuntu 9.04 on, all the hardware on my laptop and desktops worked just fine-including wireless. The only thing that gave me any argument was my Samsung CLP-510. The Linux driver from Samsung would only give me 600 dpi and the duplexer didn't work. Funny thing, the Xerox Linux driver for their version of the same printer gave me 1200 dpi and full duplex operation.

Windows 7 seems to have major problems with HP printers-not Windows fault-the HP drivers are crap.

[JCMach1]

31. Absolutely, these days just plug the printer in on Ubuntu and do nothing else

that's it... true plug and play.

[RoyGBiv]

41. Printers and Wireless ...

There have been major advances in the last couple years with printer and wireless networking drivers. Both used to be a major pain. However, a lot of kernel work has been done lately that took care of many wireless problems, and so many advances have been made with CUPS that it's simple to set up a printer now, provided one avoids a couple of brands. The same is true of wireless, of course.

But, hell ... I run wireless off a USB dongle. Remembering days gone by, when I got the thing, I sat down with a plan of spending the afternoon just trying to get the thing detected properly. I even had extra blood pressure medication on hand. :) But, I plugged the thing in, and bingo, there it was. I was stunned.

And here's the fun part. I switched over to Windows XP, and the system didn't recognize it at all. After running the software on the CD, it found it and worked fine, but the different approach needed here points to the problems some have. There was no Linux driver on that CD. The kernel had to be able to deal with it without help from the company that built the device. Microsoft has the luxury of hardware companies doing their own drivers and publishing them for Windows users.

Linux doesn't have the same luxury, although that too is changing. Saw a Canon PIXIMA printer recently with CUPS/Linux drivers ON the CD.

[JCMach1]

44. So, simple... I remember after upgrading to Ubuntu Hardy Heron

trying to do the installation for my Samsung printer. After a bit of frustration, I went into the settings to find it autodetected and was duly impressed.

Windows can't do that...

Apple can't do that...

Had the same experience with the wireless these days. It is so simple.

I usually do dual boots only because I occasionally game. I do all my work on Linux. That approach is also great for Windows as it keeps the setup nice and pristine.

[elocs]

35. I believe I noted that with "The author of this 2007 article..."

My experience a year ago was the same. Many of its points concerning Linux are just as valid today.

[cliffordu]

33. M$ has been publishing those same talking points

for the last 15 years.

Astroturfing at it's best.

About that lie that it's too geeky.

My distro asked me yesterday if I wanted to update a bunch of ancilliary software, I said yes, and it did the update over the wire,

I didn't have to reboot.

Today I'll upgrade the whole distro and then I'll have to restart it. I'll hit ONE FUCKING BUTTON and it will automatically update the ENTIRE FUCKING OPERATING SYSTEM AUTOMATICALLY.


And I don't have to worry about this update breaking a bunch of other shit or my network settings or anything else. Seamless, painless and fast.


Quoting a three year old ZDNET article as proof that Linux is substandard for your uses might be alright for some, but I would surely try to come up with some of my own.

[Greyhound]

37. Bingo! We forget that it was M$ that first used FUD as a marketing strategy.

Confusing terminology is another favorite method.

[cliffordu]

39. I used to write a column for a now defunct website called

32bitsonline.com (might be around, just not in it's old iteration)

Anyway, the columns were called "The Penguin's Postulates"

1. if you push something hard enough it will fall over, and

2. Together we are stronger than we are alone.


(Thanks to firesign theater for the first postulate....)

The columns dealt primarily with the FUD that came out of M$ when Linux first really caught fire.

I had a great time/......

[elocs]

38. I'll have to go with my experience for me "MY" experience, because not everyone's is the same.

The reasons in the article mirror my own. Why would I have to make up my own reasons? I think Linux is too geeky and that is simply my opinion and not a lie.

Defensive much? Why is that? It certainly epitomizes the attitude of far too many Linux users. If it is that hands down better than Windows and is free, then why is the world not beating a path daily to accept Linux by the millions? Or do Linux users get a free membership in the Lone Gunman club?

I take it back that Linux/everything else is as bad as Mac/pc. It's worse with Linux and to be honest I have encountered Linux fanatics whose attitudes cause me to never want to try it again.

Again, my experience with Windows has been good and it works for me. Others' problems are not mine. It's plainly silly to assert that everyone's experiences are exactly the same. I still don't get the overly defensive posturing.

Also again, why should I use Linux if I do not want it or prefer it?

[cliffordu]

40. I don't care if you use it or not.

just stop with the decade old talking points that are lies at this stage.

[RoyGBiv]

43. With all due respect ...

Some of us remember the problems you were having, most of which were user error. The problem you were having that got you so mad you dumped the whole system wasn't actually a Linux problem at all but a problem with a certain piece of software (software that is available for Windows too, btw). And, granted, that piece of software is confusing, especially for people accustomed to the Windows way of doing things. Frustration is to be expected when attempting something entirely new and is not your fault. We all went through it, especially those of us proficient in some other OS before we used Linux.

The real problem you experienced, however, is that you determined it was "too hard" when people tried to help you, and then you lashed out at those people rather than simply try to accept the help. You even went off on a mini-rant about your not knowing beforehand the name of the file system explorer. Somehow it became everyone's fault but your own.

The bottom line was that you were angry that Linux was not just a free version of Windows. Unfortunately that has driven away many people, and, really, the Linux community is better off for it.

I wouldn't normally bring all this up in the case of someone trying Linux and deciding they don't like it, but the level of hostility you exhibit toward people who do like something you don't is astonishing and in need of some balance. If this is only about your personal likes and dislikes why do you go out of your way to continuing using terms you know insult people and digging for articles that attempt to "prove" it is too difficult? It's not actually about you. We don't care about your likes or dislikes. What we care about is whether you're telling the truth about elements involved in an average person running Linux, and you are not.

[Hawkeye-X]

45. What is it now? Mad Monkey?

I love their code release names...

[pokerfan]

46. Lucid

4.10 - Warty Warthog
5.04 - Hoary Hedgehog
5.10 - Breezy Badger
6.06 - Dapper Drake
6.10 - Edgy Eft
7.04 - Feisty Fawn
7.10 - Gutsy Gibbon
8.04 - Hardy Heron
8.10 - Intrepid Ibex
9.04 - Jaunty Jackalope
9.10 - Karmic Koala
10.04 - Lucid Lynx
10.10 - Maverick Meerkat (I was really hoping for Masturbating Monkey)

[BlooInBloo]

47. I've got a couple of vm's with it. It's nice.

[Swamp Rat]

48. addin' apps right now!

:D

64 bit did not work with my Marvell Yukon Network Controller, so I had to downgrade to 32 bit. :(