My wife and I flew this week for the first time since 9-11 and the trumped up "security measures"

[Atticus]

enacted by the Bush administration and their team of budding fascists.

Forgot and put my shaving kit in my carry on bag so they "seized" my shaving gel when it showed up on xray.

We had to take our shoes off. I was actually embarassed that my country is so damned stupid that someone actually believes this will prevent terrorism.

Got home last evening and unpacked. There was a notice from the TSA that they had opened and searched one of our suitcases. Of course, it was "necessary" for "public safety". I was briefly happy that they had chosen the suitcase with nearly a week's worth of dirty socks and underwear, but mostly, I was sad and pissed.

I recall something in the Constitution---you know, that "Goddam piece of paper!"---that certainly seemed to prohibit "unreasonable searches", but, lately, it seems as though such notions are "quaint". Earlier in my lifetime, just the unauthorized search of my luggage would have been enough to cost someone their career and start attorneys drafting civil complaints.

I am not "wanted". I had committed no crime. There was nothing even approaching "probable cause" which, for over two centuries, was a prerequisite to the government opening my suitcase.

I recall reading somewhere that America is always preparing to fight the last war.

Does anyone really believe we will again be attacked by hijacked civilian airliners?

Does anyone really believe that only the TSA's insistence that we go barefoot through their gauntlet is saving us from a wave of shoe bombs?

And, the liquid prohibition? Did anyone ever board a plane with chemicals that had a snowball's chance in hell of being combined into a functional explosive device?

I know. Nothing I say can change one iota of the simplistic and fear-inspired twaddle that has replaced responsible discussion and constitutional legislation. Seems that having an arrogant idiot for a president for eight years and maybe five pairs of balls in the entire Congress really did matter. Add a fawning rubberstamp majority on the Supreme Court and the loss of our constitutional democracy was inevitable.

Not a good vibe to be found.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. There are many reasons why I no longer call this the

land of the brave or the free.

Alas that is the other reason why I carry a Netbook when I travel abroad. If they should decide to ahem... keep it... well it is much cheaper.

And you know what is embarrassing... all those hoops... and we are not that secure. This is theater to keep people afraid.

[truebrit71]

61. Agreed.

..

[alarimer]

67. Yes, it's now the land of little children who need to be coddled and protected.

Hardly "brave". And much less free as we so willingly give up our freedom for some illusory safety.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Well said...

You are completely correct, alas...

K&R

[CurtEastPoint]

3. I flew International this month and I was amazed

at the sheer numbers of TSA employees. I know people gripe when they have to wait but I would see droves going to and fro on breaks, etc. And the constant chatter among them while working and looking around like they were stocking shelves in a supermarket.

OTOH, the crews equivalent to TSA in Spain were smaller, more efficient, you didn't have to take your shoes off... what gives w/TSA?

[izquierdista]

4. Lack of farm work

A long time ago, before agriculture was mechanized, barely functional cretins stayed down on the farm and shoveled shit. Now that machinery has replaced them, they X-ray your shoes.

[femrap]

19. ....

:spray: :rofl: :spray: :rofl:

[Gormy Cuss]

14. TSA= Thousands Standing Around

At least that's the joke.

[gmoney]

69. nice...

[Yupster]

24. I just look at them all

and wonder at the cost of all this, wondering if they've ever stopped a single terrorist attack.

[Liberal_in_LA]

72. Yeah,there is a crowd of 'em

[wolfgangmo]

73. Is the TSA a teahadist make-work project?

That's my theory.

[2Design]

5. I feel violated and raped by these tactics every where while the criminals

go free - they never went to Saudi Arabia and go the place that bred these guys - they are so authoritarian and you have to allow them to dig through your stuff - these new all body scanner will be viewed by who - people who like porn - are we to masturbate for their pleasure - it is disgusting the way they have ruin the travel industry because the past admin did not do their job and because the ordinary people are not the problem - so many say - oh it is ok - they feel safer - I don't feel safer

[SoCalDem]

35. It's why we prefer to drive. Luckily for us we can do this

All of our elderly relatives have passed away, so no emergency flight for funerals anymore.

We prefer to drive also because we can choose to stop for a meal when we want where we want and to eat what we want.. we also are smokers, so we do not have to inconvenience ourselves or anyone else in our own vehicle.

There's just nowhere I need to go that I cannot reach by car these days.

we had a free 10-day trip to Tahiti in 2003 (all expenses paid and free cash to boot), but that LONG flight there and back almost made it not all that great. Tahiti is pretty but minus the locals, it could have just as easily have been Jamaica or hawaii or Miami Beach :)

a beach is a beach is a beach..Our beaches in So Cal are not as pretty, or the water as warm, but we are close enough to drive to some pretty nice ones, if we want to:)..and no killer-flight halfway across the world:)

[seabeyond]

47. last summer we drove to cape cod from texas. this spring to SF. it was great

i am glad i have the excuse to drive and not fly. now my hubby takes a handful more days vacation time that we need to drive.

[SoCalDem]

49. and the hassle factor goes WAAAAY down

We have a very posh car and LIKE to take trips..we have the satellite radio.. I take my pillow & blankie and a small cooler on the back seat with chilled water & juice & some cheese sticks & carrot sticks..and of course if we see a Dairy Queen nearby, I suddenly "need" a bathroom break :evilgrin:..

[seabeyond]

52. yes yes yes. it has been great, something we would have missed out on. the biggest for me

i hate being controlled, no longer ability to meet needs and want because of others control of me. the freedom alone makes it worth it.

[pitohui]

84. it's an international world

i have family on 4 continents, as do many people -- just as all americans who achieve have families in at least 4 states -- "there's no where i need to go that i cannot reach by car" well that's fine for people who don't achieve and don't have family members who achieve but if you want to be part of the WORLD instead of part of your own narrow village you cannot drive over the ocean, sorry

"a beach is a beach is a beach" is not what it's abt, people aren't traveling the world to go to the beach, if you think they are, you're not in a family of achievers, you're in a family of teevee watchers

i have family with passports/residents in europe, north america, asia, australia -- my insurance agent was just telling me this morning, you know, i have family in australia, africa, europe, and america -- and that's just the way the world is -- opportunity travels and if you're going to sit on your duff then it will travel on without you

successful high achieving people fly, defeatist people say it's too much trouble to take off their shoes

apparently you guys think california is the center of the world and it's stupid ass to go anywhere else, well, sorry, i think it's stupid ass to be so limited...the world is large, and we have only this short life to see it...i won't surrender the world because "it's too much trouble" to take off my shoes, that sounds like clinical depression talking frankly

[SoCalDem]

85. I've lived abroad, and have traveled a lot.. perhaps I am not as "achieved" as you are, my dear

but in MY OWN particular case, ..in my very small family, there is no NEED for me to fly anymore..

What others do with their time, money, energy is their business..

I was in NO way insinuating that EVERYONE had to do it MY way.. that's your purview :)

Although I have lived in CA for the largest chunk of my life, I do not consider myself "californian" --whatever that is:)

Although I always appreciate your input, I do find it interesting that no matter the subject, you usually seem to find a way to always be the yin..to my yang :hi:

[salin]

6. in most places, I have found that the 'trumped up' measures have dropped

quite a bit in the past couple of years. It was much more surreal in the couple of years after 9-11 (like national guard members patrolling the short term parking areas - fully garbed and clearly 'loaded').

[ljm2002]

58. That reminds me of one of my favorite stories of the Nat'l Guard...

..."guarding" the San Francisco airport.

Seems one of the young men on duty had a slight mishap while trying to unholster his rifle and managed to shoot himself in the butt right there at the airport. Scared a lot of folk, that did.

Wasn't long after that, the airport or somebody decided maybe they didn't really the National Guard there so much, and that was the end of that.

Still makes me giggle.

[UTUSN]

7. Shrub: "GD piece of paper" and Gonzo(?)'s (or YOO's?) "quaint"

I'm glad somebody remembers those phrases and their origins.

[Hekate]

8. Welcome to the club. I had to fly a lot inside the country during my mom's declining years. Stupid

Stupid stupid stupid

Having to leave our luggage unlocked has pretty much given baggage handlers license to rummage around in our luggage too. I come home and find everything in my bag disarranged and no TSA message. I bought special TSA-approved locks so they can open up my bags but not the baggage handlers, and arrive to find someone else's lock on my bag.

The one and only good thing I can say for the charade is that they now finally provide a place for the shoeless to sit down while retying their shoelaces.

Stupid stupid stupidStupid stupid stupidStupid stupid stupidStupid stupid stupid

Hekate

[DaveinJapan]

16. I was asked to remove my shoes once at Tokyo-Narita airport

They allowed me to walk through the metal detecter first, asked me to have a seat and remove my shoes (there was a relatively clean piece of carpet provided at the seating area as well), then THEY took my shoes back around and put them through the machine. They were returned to me and I put them back on never having needed to walk around on a filthy floor in bare socks.

There's a right way and a wrong way to do this stuff, I think it's the lack of consideration by some American authorities that annoys most people rather than the simple fact that security measures exist.

[Warpy]

29. And the rules changed according to airports!

Flying out of here, there were National Guard guys with big guns patrolling the airport, which shares the field with the local air base.

But I got to keep my knitting needles.

They wouldn't let me keep them coming back from Florida because that asswipe Ridge had decided to use 5 year old, Clinton era wanted posters to tell us we were under a new, extreme threat all of a sudden.

Yeah, right, Stupid wanted another term. Remember how they'd shriek "terra terra terra!" every week or two until the 2004 election day, then they were quiet as a tomb for the next 4 years?

I keep thinking that if my health improves enough, I'm going to be the hell out of here fast. I hate the way the government is treating us in this country. I'm sick of it.

While power drunk martinets exist in all countries, at least they give you health care elsewhere.

[dickthegrouch]

34. I also have TSA-approved locks; but

I have been called back to checkin and asked for the combination to the lock 5 times in the last two years. IMHO the very least they could do is lock the damn thing up again after they've satisfied themselves. I have even added that request to one of their own "we had to open your bag to get our jollies" notices, and it goes ignored.

Last time I put all five of the notices they've left on top of my undies with a note of "My flight is so badly delayed you have time to launder this lot for me" written on the top one. Apparently it wasn't opened this time (right).

[Hekate]

39. I got key-type locks from Magellan's Travel. ? I thought the combo locks had key access for TSA

... on the bottom ?, but I didn't check them out very thoroughly because I don't want to have to remember any more numbers.

I try to pack everything in mesh pouches and zip-lock bags and other stuff you can see through in the hopes that they won't be pawing through everything with their dirty blue plastic gloves. Only my laundry is stowed in an opaque white kitchen trash bag, which I label in black Magic Marker as "Laundry" and put on top of everything else. Knock yourselves out, fellas.

Hekate

[mopinko]

9. you know what makes me nuts about it? i look at all that technology and

think- what if this were in high school science labs, with these fine folks getting paid the same amount of money to be ta's. what kind of security could you build with that? and how secure is a herd of sheep?
it makes me crazy.

[depakid]

10. Here's a contrast- Ms. Depa and I flew to Perth from Sydney and back

We walked through with shoes on and carried on bottles of wine from the Margaret river, along with snack food, a tub of yogurt, water bottles and :gasp: toenail clippers.

No "threat alert" blasting from the PA- no rude and haughty TSA officials.

Flying sans paranoia. Maybe one day the US will find its way back to that place again.

[aquart]

25. How?

[depakid]

33. El cheapo airlines- Virgin Blue

The flight over to WA was a bit of an eyeopener, as Virgin's so petty they even make you pay for water! Once we figured out at the airport that everything was cool, we just brought our own food and drink on board.

VERY good to know, if we decide to travel light without a bunch of outdoor gear, we won't have to check our bags (Virgin charges for that, too).

Amazing place, South West Oz. More botanical biodiversity than anywhere outside the Amazon and strange animals like numbats and chuditchs. Karri & Tingle trees as big as redwoods. Tropical beaches due to the Leuwin current.

[aquart]

41. Tingle tree? Does it make you tingle?

[depakid]

43. If you like big old ancient trees it'll take your breath away

If you're afraid of heights- or have a kid's sense of smell, touch, hearing and amazement- the forests will surely make you tingle.

Tingle is actually a corruption of the Noongar aboriginal word for this particular gum tree, which only grows in a 6,000 hectare range.

They look like this from the ground:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Tingle-Tree,_Denmark_WA.jpg/240px-Tingle-Tree,_Denmark_WA.jpg

Karri's are thinner- a bit taller, more elegant, multicolored and widespread:



Because the landscape's flat to rolling hills, these trees also serve as bushfire lookouts- and if you're game you might have a climb of one:



If not, there's always treetop walk:



(They're both really cool- and there are many more big trees and forest ecoscapes: Tuart, Jarrah and Dryandra).

[aquart]

66. Wow. THANK YOU.

What an amazing world.

[a la izquierda]

54. Wow, you live in Australia?

If you ever hear of need for a Mexican historian, let me know. I'd be on a plane with dogs and husband in tow in a New York minute.

[depakid]

86. Not sure about historians, per se, but if you can cook regional Mexican food, Australia needs you!

(and you'd make very good money, too- as it's about to become the next big thing down under- much as Peruvian is in the states).

We have a few warehouses that import various ingredients- and everything I can make for our friends and family gets rave reviews, as Aussies- adventurous as they are, have never tasted anything like it).

[Go2Peace]

11. You did not know about this?

It has been a part of flying for almost 9 years now. You do get used to it. As much as I hate it, I don't think flying will ever be the same.

[Atticus]

15. I may have to endure it again, but I vow to NEVER get used to it. And, yes,

I "knew about" this, but I had not personally experienced it. It made me sad for my kids and their kids. We have really screwed things up for them.

[NRaleighLiberal]

12. It's incredibly ridiculous. I remember talking to an AA flight attendant

on a business flight to the UK after 911. She admitted that the vast majority of the stuff put in place does absolutely nothing to increase safety, but is there to give the image that the government is doing something. Plastic cutlery, taking off shoes, all just silly bullshit - benign reactions of a chickenshit country that shakes in its boots and grovels to the right wing fear mongers.

[musette_sf]

38. I remember talking to a United flight attendant

after the events of 11 Sept 01, asking for a magazine.

She looked at me like I was an idiot and said "We don't have magazines since 9/11!"

I said "Gee, I don't remember when the hijacker clouted the pilot with the September Vogue".

[ima_sinnic]

87. I'd forgotten--they did used to have magazines -- that is idiotic!

what does 9/11 have to do with magazines on airplanes?
now all you get is the airline's own pap, Sky Mall, and the safety brochure.
I have made it a point to fly as little as possible, but with most of my family on the opposite coast from me, I can't totally avoid it.

[ecstatic]

13. the gel and shoes thing is stupid. I dodged a bullet last time

Somehow they didn't notice my proactiv kit in my carryon. If that had been confiscated I would have been PISSED.

The random luggage searches, I can understand. I don't think they do a good enough job in screening luggage. That's just my opinion of course.

[spanone]

17. welcome to the world of air travel...been dealing with it for nine years. pain in the ass.

[femrap]

18. All of these silly 'security'

measures are just to 'remind' the typical, uninformed American that he/she needs to be fearful. The War on Terror continues.

I haven't flown since 9/11. I hope I don't have to....unless I am headed over an ocean to a land full of champagne.

It's pathetic what has happened to our nation.

I read an article in the Travel Section of our local newspaper that it was best to leave all of your personal cleansing products at home. Buy all brand new ones when you arrive at your destination and then mail them back to your home in one of the new US Postal boxes. Maybe Walgreen's/CVS lobbyists are behind all of this???!!!

How much do the TSA folks who go thru luggage make per hour? And is that all they do all day? Go thru people's luggage? And how do they decide which luggage to go thru?

[Hekate]

21. They are poorly trained, poorly paid, aren't allowed to form a union, and have high turnover.

They are also not part of the Civil Service system.

The fact that any of them are any good at all is an accident.

I'm really sorry that Obama's original nominee for head of TSA was stalled so long he finally gave up. He is (or was) head of airport security at LAX and apparently was quite good. Among other things, he was in favor of letting them form a union, but that made the Repubs go ballistic.

Hekate

[femrap]

26. How

f*cking sad. So it was just a way to lower our unemployment rate a bit.

Yes, I remember how the nominee was stalled f o r e v e r .

We are a dying empire.

Inefficiency absolutely bugs the hell out of me. I was an Industrial Engineer for a while...which is basically someone who organizes crap to run efficiency and productively. So today's America has me just so frustrated.

My mantra is 'Embrace Inefficiency.' I say this aloud (over and over)...around many people when things get so slow and stupid.

I haven't flown since 9/11. I think it would give me a stroke.

[paulsby]

44. don't work for govt, then

i am staggered every day at how inefficient my agency is.

there are INCENTIVES to be inefficient, and it shows.

i've heard people openly advocate inefficient procedures because it means we get a bigger budget

[spooky3]

76. Except that we peons are not supposed to mail liquids via the Post Ofc - notice how

they ask you when you mail a parcel whether there is anything liquid in the box? If something is not packed perfectly it's easy to imagine how it could create a mess or possibly a hazard.

[old mark]

20. It is really sad because it is all window dressing and nonsense while

many REAL avenues of attack are still open and neglected. It is a typical Bush era/GOP pilicy - costs little,looks like something is being done while nothing really is being done...Oh, yeah, and people earn low wages doing it.


m

[Patiod]

56. A lot of frequent fliers refer to it as Security Theater

The pre-printing of boarding passes introduces a MAJOR loophole that pretty much makes all the no-fly lists a joke.

[old mark]

70. I wouldn't know - I haven't been on a plane in over 15 years, and have no plans to be on one again.

Used to really enjoy flying, last time I flew I was terrified and I don't even know what made the difference.

m

[glitch]

77. That happened to me -- grew up on planes then one flight I barely repressed an anxiety attack.

Was an anxious flier for about 10 years after that and then one flight about 10 years ago I was "normal" again. Still normal. No idea what brought it on or why it left. Screwy! I hope the anxiety doesn't decide to reappear.

[demosincebirth]

22. I would rather have those rules than not. nt

[musette_sf]

36. Oh, come on,

if only the rules in effect at that time had been actually enforced, there would have been 18 CIA dupes cooling their jets in a Fed Pen, the report about the actual vote count in Florida would have dominated the news, and Stupid and Vampire might not have even finished the term, much less been re-selected.

Among other things.

[seabeyond]

48. some like to live under an illusion of safety. i dont get it. too pragmatic

reality isnt that hard.

[demosincebirth]

23. I would rather have those rules than not. nt

[Hannah Bell]

37. because petty, ineffective exercises of power add much to the flying experience.

[lumberjack_jeff]

62. Pretending to be secure makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Freedom isn't free, you see. The price is that we must cheerfully offer it up anytime the government says "boo".

[Angry Dragon]

27. Flying the friendly skies

I have flown often since 9/11. Have had pieces of luggage checked for explosives, stood in a booth with jets of air looking for explosives, found many pieces of paper telling me my bag was searched, bags searched in front of me, have been hand searched, I am looking forward to the full body scanner have not tried that yet.

[GoneOffShore]

28. There are only two things that have increased safety on airplanes since 2001

Reinforced cockpit doors and passenger awareness.

Everything else is merely security kabuki.

[paulsby]

45. complete rubbish

all sorts of holes have been patched up

example. i used to do extraditions pre 9/11

this was the security. i'd walk up to the security gate (armed with a concealed pistol), flash my badge and say "PD! extradition" and they'd wave me along

that was it.

flash a little metal badge and i could GET ON A PLANE WITH A GUN

*that's* how bad airport security was.

i'm not aware if any terrorist ever exploited how easy it was to walk on a plane with a gun in hawaii, but it was a serious security hole and it was plugged

one example of something that was done, that most people (like you) are likely unaware of, and that made air travel more secure

unless of course we should have waited for the hole to be exploited before securing it

[GoneOffShore]

68. Check with Bruce Schneier - a foremost security expert

Everything, including the multiple checking of ID's, is security theatre.

And you, as a LEO can still get on a plane with a gun.

The only real thing that has made a difference is reinforced cockpit doors and passenger awareness.

Even the FAM program is window dressing to make "Ma & Pa Kettle" feel "safe".

[paulsby]

74. the difference is this

like i am trying to explain to you

ALL i needed to do beforehand was flash a (easily faked ) badge

NOW, they check badge AND ID, *and* they check in WITH your dept. to confirm the validity of the extradition and your identity

so, it is NOT the same

hth

i did extraditions pre and have done them post 9/11

it's not even close to the same thing

[Lugnut]

30. It's all nonsense.

I'm so glad I have no need to fly.

[sabrina 1]

31. It's the people's fault. One week of no one flying as a protest

and all this garbage would stop. In fact the whole world got together, millions of people from all over the world, organized a protest to the War in Iraq. Not that anyone would have known unless they were online, but if that were to happen again and people were to take matters into their own hands, we could get back to some kind of sanity.

But, people do not want to be inconvenienced. Look at the objections to the boycotts against Az eg. People are willing to put up with being bullied long-term rather than suffer a little in the short term and the Bullies know that so they keep pushing and pushing feeling no resistance so why should they stop?

It isn't up to politicians, it's up to us. What happened to the anti-war movement eg? We have the means that no people before us had, to organize world-wide with the internet, but it hasn't happened.

I do know what the weakness of those who are responsible for all this nonsense is. We all know. It is money, and power. All we have to do is threaten their money, and we will see results, but I know it won't happen.

A few years ago eg, when the body scanner was first mentioned, there was enough outrage that at least they were afraid to go ahead with it. Now? They are just doing it because they saw that millions of people were so easily conned into taking off their shoes and having their liquids confiscated or whatever it is they are doing.

It's our fault.

[SwampG8r]

32. let me tell you of my HUMILIATION...

at the hands of canadians

went to alaska on a trip
flew hom through vancouver
get to customs
run my stuff thru the machine
i look at the lady and ask if she has the shoe tray thing or do i jst put them on the conveyor
SHE LAUGHS AT ME and says oh you must be an american eh?
thats right canadians are laughing at us and mocking us and making jokes about us
CANADIANS!!!

[femrap]

59. those

funny Canadians. :rofl:

[kcass1954]

80. My brother was going thru security at some non-US airport and started to

take his laptop out of his backpack. The security lady said, "Oh honey, you don't have to take that out. We know what a computer looks like."

[Mojeoux]

81. Oh Canadians have been mocking Americans for a long time.

They have a special segment on all their news programs......."And in America today,.(smirk) ....."


Still growing up on the Michigan side of Lake Erie, you only had to compare the ecological conditions of the shores of the lake on the American and Canadian sides to appreciate Canadian Class.

Even in the early 60s, the American side was a gross joke and the Canadian side was lovely.

Oh yea, Flying Sucks. Smaller airports better.

[Bonobo]

40. In Japan, socks are supposed to remain clean!

People do not wear shoes in houses, so socks are supposed to/must remain clean.

It is probably the same in other countries as well.

Taking your shoes off and being forced to walk through dirt in socks is disgusting to Japanese people (me too). It is akin to walking on a dirt road in socks.

The fact the the US makes no allowance for international feelings is a big tip-off to how ignorant and xenophobic we are.

[Morning Dew]

42. for your enjoyment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7AWw7t5zj0&playnext_from=TL&videos=SsmajPvEt04

[seabeyond]

46. i agree with your post. land of the cowards.... nt

[RandomThoughts]

51. There is a thing about some cowardice that many do not know.

It can be created by doing what someone knows is wrong. Many people that are cowards, still have deep inside the knowledge of what is right, and even the belief in justice.

So if they have done much wrong, cowardice creeps in them easily.

It is not true all that have done much wrong are cowards, nor that cowards are the only ones that have done wrong.

And some cowards are really good people, but it is harder for people that know there are problems that need fixing, to be courageous sometimes.


And there is a reason for that, fear keeps them from reaching a point where they can set their books in order. So fear keeps them on a bad path, hence why doing wrong and fear are often together.



If you think about it, someone that does believe in justice, and knows they have done much wrong, would be more afraid in life then someone that has done less wrong, and trust that existence is just, and that God is kind. And the other thing, is those that know God is also merciful, can assuage fear from those reasons also.

So I find it an interesting topic.

I do believe there are brave people in many offices, and have seen much courage in many places, and all people do some wrong, hence the need for grace.

[seabeyond]

53. ha, i do enjoy random thought

that is fun and is an excellent perspective.

i grew up in a family that challenged the absurd. my hubby grew up in a family of not challenging and following rule for societal order.

since being married i have had a lot fo time to see the difference in the two. i tell them, they need people like me. we live a harder life, granted, but they need people that are willing to speak out, look in the eye, head up and challenge.

unfortunately, back when, there were not enough people willing to challenge.

and we lost to the meek, lower eyes, head down and say not a word.

it is like threads we have had, where a cop does something wrong, illegal and we are told we are suppose to
"appease" the cop, for our own safety of course.

each appeasement encourages adn empowers the cop for abuse.

there is challenging respectfully. being truthful non threatening.

[Vinca]

50. I haven't flown since 9/11 either. Under the very best of circumstances,

I've always been a nervous flyer. (The person who sits bolt upright on the red eye to make sure the engines sound right.) After 9/11, there was nowhere I wanted to go badly enough to get as drunk as I'd have to be to board a plane. Now the whole shoe, demon shampoo, you-look-like-a-terrorist mentality has discouraged me from even contemplating going anywhere by air. I'm the official homebody.

[Greyskye]

55. We stopped checking baggage after TSA stole a camera

Pretty freaking blatant. Removed the lock and the camera, and left a note that they had inspected it. :grr:

My wife said she knew the camera should have gone in carry-on, but did it anyway because of lack of carry-on space. That mistake was never repeated.

[Patiod]

57. I carry on everything of value

Jewelry, electronics - ALL of it. Only clothes get put in a bag that might be gate-checked (happening more often now)

[Statistical]

60. "unreasonable searches" isn't universal.

If you got to visit a prison for example don't expect the guards to wait for a warrant to conduct a search.

Your option to avoid this "unreasonable search" is to not fly. Last time I checked TSA does not conduct random searches of people outside the airport.

[newtothegame]

63. Welcome to your government. Wonderful isn't it? nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

64. Welcome to 9 years ago nt

[Echo In Light]

65. This line:

"I was actually embarrassed that my country is so damned stupid that someone actually believes this will prevent terrorism."

Spot on ... although the social conditioning trumps any actual concern of 'terror' attacks.

[Rhiannon12866]

71. K&R! I haven't flown since before 9/11...

Now I know why. Thanks for sharing.:hug:

[drmeow]

75. One of the stupidest TSA moves

The day they enacted the liquid ban (it was a mid-day thing), they didn't exempt pilots. My husband's father (a now retired United pilot) had to throw away his toiletries when he went through security. HELLO - he's the F**KING PILOT! He does NEED a bomb to bring down the plane you idiots.

They have since exempted the flight crew.

As for the socks thing - I grabbed a pair of those TSA supplied blue booties and carry them with me (so as not to keep taking new ones and throwing them away). I put them over my socks after taking off my shoes.

I can't not fly - I sometimes travel internationally for business and if I want to see any of my family I have to cross the country (hard to do in a car with the amount of vacation time I get).

[DemoTex]

78. I am a retired airline pilot, and I have flown only once since 9/11.

I was medically grounded on Monday, 9/10/2001. I never flew another trip as captain. I went on LTD (long-term-disability). I jumped through all the hoops to get my medical certificate back, to no avail.

In 2004, after I had moved from Dallas to the NC mountains, I had to fly back to see my treating specialist. That was the first and only time I've flown since my last trip as captain on a MD-80 on about 9/5/2001.

I am required by my airline to see my Dallas specialist once a year, so since 2004 I drive. One thousand miles each way. In twelve days I'll be driving the 3100 some-odd miles to my US Forest Service fire lookout job in Oregon. I love to drive. I hate to fly.

I'm 62. If I play my cards right, maybe I can live out my alloted years without ever subjecting myself to the humiliation that the TSA and airlines now inflict on the flying public (and working flight crews). Only a dire emergency will ever get me on an airline again.

[Maat]

88. That's a very interesting story.

Thanks for sharing it.

[Warren Stupidity]

79. I ignore the liquid/gel prohibition all the time

and nobody seizes anything. I think they quietly dropped actual enforcement of that idiocy last year some time. I'm surprised they took your shit.


It is massively stupid. The whole thing. The way we meekly surrendered our fundamental rights. The fact that the new security state has become as completely entrenched as the WOD, the prison industrial complex, and the military industrial complex. You know, the real corrupt statist bullshit that the teabagnuts should be righteously pissed off about, but that they couldn't give a rats ass about while having a stroke over health insurance reform.

[Citizen Worker]

82. Pre and Post 9/11

In September 2000 I took a trip to Turkey. In the airport at the departure point a civilian employee, presumably of the port owned airport, asked me to open my camera bag. I complied and from behind her back she produced a "wand" with a circular end to which she inserted a piece of pre-treated, according to her, cloth. I asked her what this was about and she said depending on the color of the cloth it would indicate either drugs or explosives. I then asked what she would do should it turn out positive. She said she would then call for law enforcement and they would take if from there. I said something about this being an illegal search but later found out that the mere act of purchasing a ticket you convey permission for you and your baggage to be searched. An obvious abridgment of the Bill Of Rights.

On my return from the same trip as I was standing in the check-in line at the Istanbul airport one of the airline personnel was handing out small pieces of paper asking passengers to please provide the information requested. When the staff person got to me and I looked at the paper I asked what this was all about and she said it was for general information. What the paper was requesting was contact info on the next of kin. This had never happened to me before while traveling internationally. I provided the info and immediately went in search of a newspaper knowing that something had happened somewhere. It didn't take long to learn that the USS Cole had been bombed. What other security measures were implemented are a mystery to me.

Post 911 I traveled by air to the midwest to meet a friend who was moving to my area for a brief time. I had agreed to rendezvous with her and share the driving and I brought along a tool bag, just in case. The OVM bag, as I call them, was a heavy little bugger and I checked it in as though it were a suitcase. After retrieving the bag I noticed that it was unzipped. I looked inside and there was a notice from TSA that my bag had been selected for hand inspection. A quick glance indicated that everything was there. I thought this was an intrusion without probable cause, but then what the hell do I know? Little did I know at the time if something is missing from your baggage the airline sends to TSA and TSA sends you to the airline. You're left to run in an endless circle.

On a more recent international trip I was standing in line at the inspection point in the international terminal camera bag slung over my shoulder. I set the bag on the table and opened it. The inspector removed my camera and asked me to open it and I did. I was then asked to remove each lens, remove front and rear lens caps, and the inspector held each up to the light and peered through. The inspector asked me to remove the remainder of the contents and I did but he missed a zippered pocket in the flap. I unzipped the pocket and removed lens cloths, lens cleaning fluid, cable release, etc. The lens fluid seemed to pique his interest and he asked me to explain what it was. I did and that seemed to satisfy him. Expecting to be asked to remove my shoes I wore sandals, and sure enough I was asked to remove them. Imagine a floor having been trod over by who knows how many feet and what cooties might be residing theron? I was then asked to empty my pockets. As I packed my small suitcase I removed my 3" pocket knife, pipe tool and fingernail clippers, but was carrying a disposable lighter. The inspector seized upon the lighter and told me, "this is a no-no in the US." I simply shrugged my shoulders, oh well.

A few feet away and in full view of the inspectors sat my fellow travelers. I noticed several people approaching a woman for a light. I was relieved. I found a place to sit and dropped my camera bag, loaded my pipe and approached the woman for a light. She happily, it seemed, complied. All of us had the same destination, New York. Why wasn't this woman's disposable lighter confiscated? Could this woman have been an air marshall? I suppose that's possible but I'm left with little confidence in airport security.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlooInBloo]

90. Uh.... this post is almost a decade out of date.

[ScreamingMeemie]

91. Uh...not if the posted hadn't flown since 9/11, as he stated.

[BlooInBloo]

92. (shrug) Well I'm glad Rip Van Winkle finally woke up....

I haven't been to the Gulf Of Mexico recently, but I still know about what's going on there.

I for fucking sure haven't been to Arizona lately, but I still know what's going on there.

There are lots of things I haven't done for a long time, but I know about.

[ScreamingMeemie]

94. I think when a person experiences the situation, it impacts harder

than when they "fucking" just know about it. :hi:

I live less than 50 miles from the Gulf of Mexico... I "know" about what is going on there but I am sure when I see it the impact will be much greater.

I haven't said this in a while to you but...the clue phone is ringing...

[BlooInBloo]

95. It was a wrong number. They're looking for people who aren't familiar with major news a decade ago.

[ScreamingMeemie]

96. Get over it. The OP posted a relevant piece. Until we address the

situation it's relevant. On the positive side, crapping on the OP brings more attention to how ridiculous being in opposition to this thread can be. Check your number again...or don't. See ya. :hi:

[femmocrat]

93. We no longer fly either.

I refuse to be treated like a suspected terrist when I have never even had a traffic ticket.

Another question: Does anyone believe that a middle-aged Pennsylvania woman with bunions is going to carry an explosive onto a plane?