I have concluded that this country is in a death spiral...

[PCIntern]

and has been for a very long time.

Yes I know it's cynical and negative but my God, look around. Everything to which we once pledged our allegiance in the schools of our youth is gone or disappearing fast: Love of knowledge including science and fact supplanted in many casses by Creationism and Junk Science and Power of Deity; appreciation for literature,culture, and music of the past - although one didn't at that now far-distant time have to be a 'fan' of these things, they were appreciated simply for being, even by most who shunned them, there was grudging approval and some respect - now, even among 'cognoscenti', there is little or none; mainstream-accepted literally violent disapproval of laws and the Constitution, of legitimately elected representatives and their constituencies - the key here is that there are interview shows which calmly discuss the potential for assassinations of public figures, rather than the outrage which this should engender; levels of anger unseen in my lifetime towards individuals who do not toe the line 100%; loss of manufacturing and productivity, since we have become a colony, exporting raw materials and importing finished goods, with concimitant record unemployment with little hope of salvation in this regard; grotesque religious and racial intolerance; and much much more.

If the RW has a resurgence, we are doomed.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PCIntern]

3. Welcome to DU...

I look forward to reading more of your posts...

Coming in and criticizing Dems overall isn't, however,the best way to develop relationships around here,IMO.

[patrice]

9. You should be aware that even though many of us agree with you about the 2 party system, we know

that, in fact, there ARE essential differences in the 2 partys.

The corrupt system is the SAME system and, though 2 of its elements are similar, THEY ARE ALSO FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT, so we have concerns about how super-ordinate processes evolve toward more than 2 parties, without losing or obfuscating distinctions that ARE valuable to the PEOPLE, ir-respective of party, but which in most instances seem to co-relate with the word Democratic, much more often than they do with the word Republican.

[elocs]

10. I wonder if the Romans or citizens of other failed nations throughout history felt the same.

That "we will prevail" is no guarantee of prevailing.

[Blue Meany]

13. It's worse than it looks on the surface...

The government has essentially become a front for the largest corporations and most of the economy has been structured for their short-term profits. We have an unsustainable food system within which food will become unaffordable for many (perhaps most) when the price of oil goes up. We are dependant on imported oil for fuel and (domestic) coal for electricity, which is contributing mightily to global warming and the attendant prblems. We have a bloated financial sector that is siphoning off profits from what few productive industries remain. Every attempt at addressing the national and global problems is subverted by special interests, so that the best we can hope for is some kind of toothless compromise.

At this point, I think the action is at the local and even personal level. We need to pull not just our checking accounts but whatever investments we have out of the Wall Street banks and invest in local sustainable busineses. We need to disengage,as much as possible, from the corrupted economic system: grow our food or buy it from local farmers. We need, in short, to create an alternative system to sustain ourseles when the corporate system collapses from its own shortsightedness.

In the current situation, gardening has become an act of resistance.

[RKP5637]

38. +1, n/t

[Greyhound]

88. Agreed, but currently impossible. The cheers of "the DOW is up and the economy is good"

ignores the underlying truth that tens of millions of people's lives are bound to the stock market by law. The so-called institutional investors are your 401-(k)'s and most IRA's, IOW, there's trillions of $ that serve no other purpose than to ensure the continuation of the Wall Street Confidence scheme. And that's where the "Thank God It Passed" contingent comes from, the ultimate "I've got mine, fuck everybody else" crowd.

Removing the thousand dollars you have in your checking account, if it was done by a significant percentage of the population, would be of some advantage to the small banks, but in the end all that would accomplish is to make them big enough to be devoured by the Big Six.

[patrice]

2. Gone: Taking a stand and living what is right without NEEDING a group to prop you up.

[patrice]

4. Gone > Doing what is Right & Good, because it IS Right & Good, not for pay, not for rewards

[graywarrior]

5. I blame the media

For ALL of it. They are responsible for shining the light on the fuck-fest of Teabaggers, racists, bigots, religeous fanatics, Sarah Palin, Babs Bachman, and every other slimey piece of shit GOP that dares open their mouths releasing shitstink opinions.

I despise the corporate media with a passion of a trillion burning suns.

[emulatorloo]

17. Between the Media's need to "mainstream" Extremist right-wing views and this Supreme Court decision

that allows Corporations to buy elections, we are in a lot of trouble.

I don't think we are in a Death Spiral, but something has to happen to break the cycle.

[Flying Dream Blues]

34. Agree! nt

[RKP5637]

40. So true, the media instead of being investigative and exposing the crap leverages

it to make a profit by promoting cheap tabloid journalism. And also a huge profit for the ridiculous cost of elections. The M$M could do a service to this country, but instead they have mostly chosen to help take the country down.

[Mika]

6. There's hope.

A Canadian DDS friend of mine told me yesterday that his lab is outsourcing to a US full service lab. Its a bargain because US labs and their labor have been so browbeaten they've all lowered their prices and are outsourcing to China also.

--

There's always hope.... If labor prices go down low enough, we might become a manufacturer nation again.

:sarcasm:

---

[PCIntern]

8. $35.00 crowns!

plastic fused to chewing gum wrappers

[Blue Meany]

18. When the dollar crashes our labor will be worth more on

the world market and, if we have any capital left, we can re-industrialize.

[abelenkpe]

30. The dollar is the worlds reserve currency

It may in fact crash, but not until every other currency goes down.

[WinkyDink]

7. Coup d'etat 2000: When the SCOTUS proved itself CORRUPT, that was it. THE END OF AMERICA.

[ladjf]

23. For me, that was the shocking moment that I became disillusioned

with our government. nt

[NoPasaran]

29. I knew the jig was up when they cancelled Arrested Development

[Ignis]

95. +1

:rofl:

[Solomon]

73. Me too and I'm a lawyer. Broke my heart and made me quit

practicing. I always used to feel that the Court was the only uncorrupted institution left and then they said "don't count the votes" in the world's most notorious "democracy."

[troubledamerican]

55. 12/12/2000 ... Nobody peeped a word back then.

I went to the Federal Building in Seattle that night. I expected a candlelight vigil at least. There was nothing.

[Subdivisions]

67. That is EXACTLY the day 'America' ended. n/t

[truebrit71]

93. Yup. That was when it became apparent..

..that the deck was stacked..

[Initech]

11. We're doomed regardless. Look at Texas where they're trying to rewrite history.

[Vinca]

12. I know what you mean, PC. Sometimes I find myself looking

at babies and small children and feeling sorry for them. What on earth will this country be like in 20 years?

[PCIntern]

14. Toffler was Correct!

...and we Progressives made fun of him at the time as anti-intellectual. We misunderestimated the stupidity of the People-at-largeand the collapse of the media into utter banality and lies.

[Vinca]

15. Exactly. We are now living the future shock.

[stray cat]

16. Maybe - but it also reminds of the tea partiers who long for the greatness of the past

[qazplm]

19. you thought it would be easy?

no offense but spare me the folks who thought the fight for progress would be all sunshine and puppies.

Guess what, even if (and IMO when) society makes that great giant leap, it won't have come without setbacks, reactions, retrenchments and battles lost.

Even with all that, compare this period in the big picture to any other in human history and this period has better rights for women, minorities, gays, atheist, and every group under the sun. Kids are relatively protected, we are healthier than we've ever been, wealthier than ever.

Does that mean things dont still suck in many ways? Nope. But talking about being "doomed" ignores anything other than extremely recent history.

[aquart]

20. Short lifetime, Chicken Little?

I get the feeling you really haven't seen much.

[PCIntern]

28. do you now?

I didn't say that civilization will end...just that the country as we knew it began to deteriorate some years ago and the rate of change is increasing apace. difference of opinion I suppose...Chicken Little-ism? Somebody better get on the stick...and soon

[DemReadingDU]

46. I compare this as living in a global Ponzi

It's been growing for 50 years...by politicians, bankers, lobbyists, corporations, etc., so it's huge. Every Ponzi eventually implodes by its weight and complexity, and this global Ponzi will also implode and we will all become like Bernie Madoff victims. It can't be stopped, no matter what schemes are implemented by this administration. There is too much global debt, too many toxic investments, offshoring our factories, and computers rigging the stock market. It's like we have been having the best party, and now we must all suffer the worst hangover.

[grasswire]

21. but - still, ultimately - the people hold the power

The PEOPLE hold the power.

The Low Road by Marge Piercy

What can they do
to you? Whatever they want.
They can set you up, they can
bust you, they can break
your fingers, they can
burn your brain with electricity,
blur you with drugs till you
can't walk, can't remember, they can
take your child, wall up
your lover. They can do anything
you can't stop them
from doing. How can you stop
them? Alone, you can fight,
you can refuse, you can
take what revenge you can
but they roll over you.

But two people fighting
back to back can cut through
a mob, a snake-dancing file
can break a cordon, an army
can meet an army.

Two people can keep each other
sane, can give support, conviction,
love, massage, hope, sex.

Three people are a delegation,
a committee, a wedge. With four
you can play bridge and start
an organization. With six
you can rent a whole house,
eat pie for dinner with no
seconds, and hold a fund raising party.

A dozen make a demonstration.
A hundred fill a hall.
A thousand have solidarity and your own newsletter;
ten thousand, power and your own paper;
a hundred thousand, your own media;
ten million, your own country.

It goes on one at a time,
it starts when you care
to act, it starts when you do
it again and they said no,
it starts when you say We
and know you who you mean, and each
day you mean one more.

[villager]

32. +1 for the Marge Piercy poem!

:thumbsup:

[Hekate]

43. I love that poem. Thanks for thinking of putting it here.

[paulsby]

22. i have concluded that chicken little'ism is as dependable as death and taxes

that much is certain

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

24. Yep.

Start with Ronald Reagan and the Greed is Good ethos

Throw out financial oversight and imperil the entire world's economy

Make special classes of criminals with no 4th Amendment rights

Make-up wars for the profit of private enterprise

Have hackable elections

Have the Supreme Court select the President

Put the Justice Department Civil Rights and Labor Divisions to sleep

Fill civil service with political hacks (our own form of Baathism)

Privatize everything you possibly can - usually raising and not lowering the cost to the individual taxpayer/citizen

Make news a part of entertainment

Make college completely unaffordable to the middle and lower classes

Keep a lid on wages

Outsource and kill jobs

Entomb a dysfuctional healthcare (oops!) meant insurance system for the forseeable future

Empower government to seize private property for the benefit of another private property owner

Have no shame, remorse or accountability when torture is committed in our name

Sell your elections to the wealthiest corporate voices in the name of free speech and corporate personhood.

Allow indefinite detention without charges or trial

Have a lapdog media

Pander to the most ignorant and violent segments of the populace

**************************

Looks like a death spiral to me. What would make it change? A return to (gasp!) decency and a sense of proportion and fairness? A return to the Rule of Law where we are a nation of Laws and not men? How can that occur when our leaders, out of CONVENIENCE and political expediency, refuse to prosecute and bring to justice the people who brought this country so low? Face it, we have NO standards. If a country and/or persons can lie/kill/torture/steal elections with complete impunity, than we have no bottom. We can go a lot lower. And we probably will.

[indepat]

62. These are but a few of the prices that must be paid for the joy of living in a RW society wherein

Republicans have largely set the public agenda for over fifty years. :-)

[Karenina]

25. See: Arizona

The big $$$ players MUST bop them upside the head and I mean HARD and FAST. I hope that those in their immediate and extended circles will encourage them to do so.

[anigbrowl]

26. oh for heavens sake

A colony exporting mostly raw materials? GMAFB.

[PCIntern]

27. you're right...

huge manufacturing base with jobs increasing exponentially year after year...

You GMAFB...w/all due respect.

[anigbrowl]

37. There's a lot more to our economy than just manufacturing

The US' manufacturing output is about $1.8 trillion, and still the largest in the world by a considerable margin. I has shrunk as a proportion of our overall economy and has been shrinking since the time of the Korean war, but this is partly due to a huge increase in the value of service performed and exported.

http://investing.curiouscatblog.net/2009/10/13/data-on-the-largest-manufacturing-countries-in-2008/
http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/2010/pdf/gdp4q09_3rd.pdf

We are most certainly not a commodity-based economy.

[abelenkpe]

31. So don't vote republican.

[proteus_lives]

33. Chicken Little thread #2345

It's nothing new. People have been predicting America's doom since 1776.

[troubledamerican]

59. You sound like Orrin Hatch calling Clinton's 1997 terrorism bill "Chicken Little stuff".

"It can't happen here."

[snagglepuss]

35. The other day, I scanned DU's dungeon which I do occasionally because

I do doubt the official story, however, I haven't embraced the Truther movement because I have accepted the view that all conspiracies are eventually uncovered because someone spills the beans so harbouring conspiracy notions is basically delusional. The other day, however, I wondered whether that particular view on conspiracies still holds true given that the nation's character seems to have undergone a seismic shift or, as the OP puts it, a death spiral. If society is now radically different, long held assumptions no longer apply.

If you consider, for instance, the number of individuals in the financial sector who have been shown to be utterly bereft of ethical standards and utterly unconcerned with the dire effects of their criminal actions, it isn't so implausible to imagine that a group of Americans could enter into a conspiracy and successfully pull off something like 911. Although the financial crisis has made evident that people have no problem keeping mum when they are adequately rewarded for their complicity and silence, it seems like financial reward isn't the only motivating factor, these Wall Street bastards actually appear to take sadist pleasure in destruction, financial or otherwise. All in all, there is an abundance of evidence that those have who obscenely benefited from the economic disaster they helped orchestrate have absolutely no guilt and never had the slightest tinge of concern for anyone but themselves. The insurance industry is another example of people without the least compunction to destroy lives for their own ends. So given the number of instances and the magnitude of corporate malfeasance which have destroyed countless people at home and abroad, is it beyond reason to assume that American individuals could have conspired to stage a massive terrorist attack and successfully keep it under wraps?

I think the OP is on the mark and if so then alot of assumptions about our society need to be revised and quickly.

[cali]

36. lol. the obligatory daily "it's all over and we're all doomed" post

[BlooInBloo]

39. It's bound to be true, sooner or later. So they keep saying it.

[PassingFair]

41. Yeah, because shit like this is nothing to worry about:

http://atlanta.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2010/04/19/story5.html

[cali]

45. who said that that shouldn't be a worry?

[RKP5637]

52. I see stuff like this starting to happen here too. Stores that just go away overnight and

none even moving into vacated spaces/offices/buildings. Sometimes it's gradual, sometimes faster, and then suddenly others get what's happening.

[tavalon]

42. It's the death spiral of an empire

They always go the same way and ours is no different.

[RKP5637]

54. There is an awful awful lot of history here. All empires have felt they were

invincible. What happen / is happening to America is sad, because it did not have to be this way. Unchecked greed. It reminds me of some of the once great corporations I worked for, all thought they had inherited earth and then the universe, and now they are all gone. They got complacent and didn't keep their eyes on the road ahead, went right over the cliff.

[Autonomy]

44. It's not cynical; it's selective attention

True without being Truth.

[patrice]

51. True without being Truth. Excellent!, and very useful, distinction!

[RKP5637]

47. I've been feeling similar for sometime now. n/t

[Tesha]

48. Based on the particular folks who are checking in to assure us you've got it all wrong, ...

...I'd say you probably have it all too correct.

Tesha

[PCIntern]

50. Right you are!!!

...no sweat; record foreclosures,indefensible bank policies which never seem to change, record unemployment with no hope of retraining b/c there areno jobs to retrain anyone for...sounds great to me! Chicken little? Nah...

[RKP5637]

49. As one poster said sometime ago... "It's like watching a slow motion

train wreck."

[DainBramaged]

53. Half of DU won't be able to understand ONE FUCKING WORD you wrote, not one

[PCIntern]

57. Is that b/c

it was one giant run-on sentence

or

it was poorly conceived and wrong-headed?

[DainBramaged]

58. It was meant for those of you who have trouble comprehending, that 50%

I mentioned.


Sorry your reading skills are so poor.

[tjwash]

56. Pining for some fantastical past America that never existed again?

Jeez, I've got to stop signing in to this fucking website on weekends...there are too many folks here that are in need of a serious break from the isolation of moms basement, coupled with the paranoid-alliances that they develop with anonymous strangers that are just as loopy.

Try checking in with a good psych and having a frank discussion with them about depression and possible paranoid delusions.

[PCIntern]

60. WTF...

I mean...WTF!?

you think that this is going to just resolve itself? No frigging way.What's goingto happen is that we areeventually going to have a major catastrophe that we REALLY are going to have to dig ourselves out of. Yeah...manufacturing economy...right...check your local major markets for Made In America tags...the auto industry's utterly bankrupt and fading fast, electronics...HA! furniture of the inexpensive variety, watches,clocks, appliances...come on.this is just absurdist thinking that we're going to be all right just b/c you don't fucking check in on weekends.

And please don't ask me to look for psychiatric help b/c I don't have your Reagan-rosy vision. How much did those contacts cost to implant anyway and did your health insurance pay for them?

[Leftist Agitator]

71. YHBT.

[southernyankeebelle]

61. I totally agree with you. We have to make sure we get the vote out on election day. It is a must.

We will be crazy if we have the palin, bachman republicans in office. We will be doomed.

[Arugula Latte]

63. Religion has legitimized ignorance and irrationality in this country.

[WeekendWarrior]

64. I'm almost sixty and

I've heard someone say this kind of thing every decade since I was a kid.

Nobody is doomed.

[BurtWorm]

65. Perhaps, but I'm over 50 and have to say I've seen a real deterioration of American values

particularly in the last 20-30 years when Republicans have dominated Washington and corporations have consolidated control of the media in fewer and fewer hands. There is a real decline in American standards of discourse. I don't think we can recover from it, frankly.

[WeekendWarrior]

69. I've heard that one many many times as well

American values? WTF are American values?

Things change. They always have, they always will. Sometimes they change for the worse, sometimes they change for the better. It's the way the world works.

We have always been dominated and run by big business. By money. The only thing that has changed in that regard is that the curtain has been lifted and we can see behind the scenes. But let's not forget the robber barons, the banks, etc. -- and the media they controlled -- doing pretty much the same thing many, many years ago.

[BurtWorm]

72. I disagree. I think it's gotten much worse.

Just look at the gap between rich and poor. Look at what virtually all the Republicans stand for compared with 35-40 years ago, when there were still McCloskeys and Rockefellers and Javitzes and the Fords were able to get a pro-choice plank into the Republican platform. Granted, some things have improved, like quality of life for African-Americans as a whole. But racism seems much more virulent and more and more mainsteam now than it was, when it was shamed into the shadows. In the wake of Sputnik, Americans valued science and math. Science educators didn't feel a need to tiptoe around topics that might hurt the feeligns of religious extremists. Religious extremism has forced itself into the American mainstream.

Now you may say this is all cyclic. Well, when is this fucking cycle going to end? What is going to be left of the nation when this cycle of fanatacism and xenophobia dead and done with?

[WeekendWarrior]

85. It is cyclic and

the cycle will never end as long as we have greedy people in this world. If you can find a way to end greed, we might have a chance, but until then, we'll just have to ride the roller coaster.

[BurtWorm]

86. The original point remains: this country is in a downward spiral

It is getting worse, not better, as a country. It won't get better anytime soon. If history is any indication, the country will continue to crumble and eventually die, and new countries will rise out of its ashes. How long that will take is anybody's guess, but it will happen.

This is not to say that people who live here all suck, or that there aren't pockets where most of the people don't suck. Just to say that suckiness is a disease that is consuming the country and will eventually kill it.

[Greyhound]

89. And when, in your 60 years, has it got better? n/t

[WeekendWarrior]

90. It depends on what you're looking at

I've seen civil rights healthcare reform passed. I've seen people become more accepting of sex and drugs and freedom of lifestyle. I've seen advances in science that make our quality of life better.

I mean, this is a such a vast subject that it seems kind of silly to sit down and make a list. But there have certainly been times over the last several decades that things have gotten better, then worse, then better, then worse. Hopefully we're on an upward path right now.

I really get sick of the doom and gloom around here. We'll muddle through as we always do.

[Greyhound]

91. When someone is stealing all the water, the "glass half full" view is not positive, it's simply fear

When falling down a cliff, you will hit ledges that will briefly slow your decent, that doesn't mean you are not going to hit bottom.

We could debate it, but you seem to have made up your mind.
Peace:hi:

[BurtWorm]

94. This thread gives a good explanation of why this downward spiral is more than merely cyclic.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x459578

Something fundamental changed in the way the American ecomomy was structured that has segregated a rigged gambling system of American finance and the politicians who gain from it and protect it from what was productive in the American economy and provided some kind of social cohesion. Pay attention to the portion of Franken's talk about the radical change to this system in the last 25 or so years.

[slackmaster]

78. BurtWorm, people on the right are saying exactly the same thing, except...

...they say "Democrats" where you said Republicans.

They can't all be correct, but they can all be wrong.

[BurtWorm]

80. It's a fact that the downturn has coincided with the rise of conservatives in power.

Once upon a time, the types of conservatives typified as the Tea Partyer or Fox viewer were on the fringe of society and discourse. It was once an embarrassment to the GOP that Birchers supported some of their most conservative brethren. Even Republicans once viewed Birchers as bad news, fringers and frothers as dangerous as communists supposedly were for being just as secretive and extreme in their critique of American society. Those fringers are now at the center of Republican politics. When the GOP wins, the extreme right wins. This is not just paranoia, it's fact. Open your eyes and look at the Republican party of today. Look at what they've done in Congress. Look at what they're doing in Arizona. Think about what they plan to do when they get their bloody mits back on the reins of power in DC.

The conservative critique of the Democratic Party is based on lies and ignorance. The Democrats are no threat to anybody (unfortunately). They ceased being a threat long, long ago.

[Greyhound]

92. confusing party with philosophy only serves to distract from the issue.

There has been a continual and ever more "conservative" push from both parties and it is killing us.

[RagAss]

66. yes...and the fear after 9/11 sped up the spiral...we've got about 10 more years until...

Blood runs like wine into the gutters.

[donheld]

68. On this I hate to agree with you, but i do.

[Juche]

70. Our position as world leader is ending

I agree with that. Our military empire can't conquer a couple of third world countries. Our nation can't get organized enough to deal with problems. The level of organization and sacrifice in WW2 and after WW2 could not happen now. China is starting to take the lead in investing in renewable and sustainable living while in the US we are still debating things like whether climate change is real or if we should even care since the rapture means nobody will be around when the environment is uninhabitable.

So the Chinese will end up taking over the world. By the year 2050, India's economy will be the same size as ours will be (about 35 trillion) while China's will be about 70 trillion.

However I think the radical right is in a death spiral.


America is becoming less white (the % of the electorate that is non-white went from about 12% in 1992 to 25% in 2008, and is still growing)

America is less religious (non-affiliation went from 8% to 15% from 1990-2008). Every generation is more secular than the one before it.

We are more diverse in our living arrangements, sexual habits, etc.

Reaganomics is being exposed as a sham more and more each day.


So the radical right is in a death throe, becoming more and more extreme to rebel against this death of their worldview. I think that is what we are seeing.

In 20 years most of the tea baggers and uber-conservatives will be dead since many are 60+, Generation Y (the ones that gave Obama a 66-32 lead over McCain) will make up about 37% of the electorate, the % of the population who identify as secular/agnostic will be closer to 25% (up from 15%) and non-whites will be 35-40%+ of the electorate.

[slackmaster]

74. Turn your TV and computer off for a few days

Get outside in the fresh air and sunshine.

[Dreamer Tatum]

76. +1

[Dreamer Tatum]

75. Oh, bullshit

People have made that same argument forever.

Don't believe me? Go read The Air-Conditioned Nightmare by Henry Miller, published almost 70 years ago. Same self-congratulatory arguments.

[BurtWorm]

77. Self-congratulatory?

Despairing is more like it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

79. It's a little too literary and condescending to be genuine, IMO nt

[BurtWorm]

81. No, it was genuine.

Most of that book, from what I remember consists of Miller's visits with Americans whose character he admires. He holds them up as a contrast to the culture as a whole, which depresses him.

I can totally relate to Miller's despair. But I actually think it's much worse now. The numbskullery in the American character that was just stupidly ambling along in Miller's day is now power-hungry and has a media voice and a political party to further its interests.

[chrisa]

82. People have always been like this.

Remember the "Monkey trial?" Americans have proven, in the past, that they will resist new information before it is accepted. Some information isn't accepted at all, even though the truth is in everybody's faces. They have a history of, and will continue to throw a quick "No! You're wrong!" before even taking a viewpoint or idea as a possibility, because it's human nature. Never changing your beliefs is the easiest way out.

[newtothegame]

83. Something us and the Tea Party have in common. nt

[deaniac21]

84. You are obviously very dramatic and young. Not a student of

history for sure. You should have been around when there actually were often assassinations of the most important people in the country.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

96. condescending and blatantly false

There is no separation between "now" and "then", no matter how much you may wish to believe otherwise. We are living the aftermath of those assassinations and of the steady degradation of American culture and education.

I realize it helps you to act superior but it is ignorance and foolishness that shines through your post, nothing more.

[deaniac21]

98. I'm not acting.

[h9socialist]

87. The World is always changing . . .

. . . but the truth is that the US Left is in a whole lot better shape now than in the 1980s and 1990s. The problems that we on the Left face today are no more daunting than 50 or 60 years ago.

The "upper class" has become an issue in our time -- the first time since FDR. The market collapse and recession have weakened capitalism. The "Tea Party" movement is the collective howl of a political movement on the cusp of obsolescence. The biggest problem for us is whether or not the Democratic Left can get its act together. If we can, then there's a real chance for a period of constructive change. If not, then this rather dismal assessment may have some merit. Keeping the lid on internecine struggles and sectarianism is essential.

[DatManFromNawlins]

97. Wake me up when the sky actually gets here

Because that fucker has been falling since time began.

[Xenotime]

99. RW wants nothing but to ruin this country through greed and thievery.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

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