Military families speak out

[bonito]

Anyone who opposes this illegal war might want to visit this site, these families lives are bearing the burden not only in the death toll but in so many other ways, check out their letters section, read into their daily lives or should I say their daily nightmares.

They support our troops, and our troops support them, and they are saying end this war.

Shall we visit and support them in the trenches and do their bidding at home?

I'm in.

Their website. http://www.mfso.org/index.php


Military Families Speak Out is an organization of people opposed to the war in Iraq who have relatives or loved ones who are currently in the military or who have served in the military since the buildup to the Iraq war in the fall of 2002. Formed by two families in November of 2002, we have contacts with military families throughout the United States, and in other countries around the world. Our membership currently includes over 3,400 military families, with new families joining daily.

As people with family members and loved ones in the military, we know that it is our loved ones who are, or have been, or will be on the battlefront. It is our loved ones who are at risk, who have been injured or who have died as a result of this war. It is our loved ones who are returning scarred from their experiences, who are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). We say:

Support Our Troops
Bring Them Home Now!!! and
Take Care of Them When They Get Here.

[genie_weenie]

1. There is a new directive from the Army which

is going to target families. The shutting down of military bloggers is another attempt by the DoD to contain and direct the flow of information. The unvarnished truth is disrupting the Pentagon's propaganda efforts.

http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/05/army_bloggers

[mnhtnbb]

2. If all the soldiers refused to allow this censorship, where would

the military be? Up the creek, since no one wants to join their illegal and unjust war. Wouldn't that be great? Civil disobedience among the military, standing up for constitutional rights?

[RiDuvessa]

4. I disagree with that sentiment.

We do not want to set a precedent for the military disobeying the civilian authority. We do not want to see the military start deciding which Presidents they will obey and which Presidents they won't. Even with civil disobedience. Things will not end there. What happens when a Democrat gets in the White House and the military decides they don't like their policies? This is not a road we want to go down. One of the best things about our country is that the military is supposed to be apolitical. Rights tend to go down the toilet when the military decides it doesn't like the government that controls it. If we want to get the military out of Iraq, then it is our responsibility to do so by electing those officials to office and then holding their feet to the fire so that things get done.

[Karenina]

7. The civilian authority as embodied by the *dauphin

HAS NO LEGITIMACY. The "elections" have been BOGUS for 3 cycles now, the American people have CLEARLY stated their opposition to "the course" and yet it proceeds. Those who are offering their BODIES up to this clusterfuck are the frontline defense against the pernicious aims of this "elite." When THEY finally get a clue and say with a unified voice, "NO SIR, NO" the bloodletting will begin to end. I WHOLLY SUPPORT the heroes and heroines who have already let their voices be heard.

[RiDuvessa]

9. I disagree.

I do not want the military deciding whether or not a civilian authority is legitimate or not. It is not their place to do so, and the tradition is there for a reason. I do not want to be like Turkey, Chile, Argentina, Pakistan, or any number of other countries where the military overthrows the government any time they don't like the way things are going. Right now, like it or not, Congress authorized the war in Iraq and have not yet rescinded that authority. They continued to authorize funding. And I don't have to tell you about the president.

The government is the embodiment of civilian authority for the military. And if you really think about it, I don't think you would like the idea of them being able to choose which leaders to follow and which leaders not to follow.

[Breeze54]

8. Sir! No Sir! The Vietnam era enlisted soldiers helped stop that war!!

Yes sir! David Zeiger’s anti-war military

Gerald Perry, The Phoenix

http://www.sirnosir.com/the_film/reviews_92.html

http://www.sirnosir.com/archives_and_resources/galleries/gi_papers.html

David Zeiger’s Sir! No Sir!, which runs June 16-22 at the Brattle Theatre, is yet another absorbing documentary that George W. won’t see, or want you to see, because, as the prez often cautions, “It sends the wrong message to our troops.” Does it ever! By chronicling the little-known story of resistance within the American military during the Vietnam War, it could give our guys and gals being shipped to Iraq some seditious ideas. Resist! Tell the Republican gang in Washington, “We don’t want your fucking war!” Just as many Vietnam GIs did.

What will surprise everyone seeing this film, including those with a vivid memory of the 1960s and 1970s US anti-war movement, is how much protest there was by people in uniform. As early as 1966, when most at-home Americans hadn’t thought much about being at war in Southeast Asia, some in the military were already saying “No” to combat. Dr. Howard Levy, a physician serving in Vietnam, was sentenced to three years in prison because, appalled by the murder of civilians, he refused his duties. Already in 1966, the leftist American magazine Ramparts had a cover story about a disillusioned Green Beret, Donald Duncan, with the banner headline “I quit!”

Sir! No Sir! uncovers a national chain of GI coffeehouses near military bases where soldiers and marines could read alternative weeklies, listen to protest music, and chat about the lousy war under posters of Che Guevara and Huey Newton. Soldiers started their own underground papers and distributed them clandestinely on the bases. This documentary makes the startling claim that there were 300 such papers! And who today remembers the battles within military jails between incarcerated soldiers, who had refused to be shipped to Vietnam, and prison authorities, who viewed these inmates as traitors? Sir! No Sir! makes it clear that protesting the war from within the military wasn’t taken lightly. It could be viewed as mutiny.

[mnhtnbb]

10. Hitler would be proud of this argument. My argument is that

NOT EVEN THE MILITARY commanders have the right to deny soldiers
their constitutional right of free speech. That is what is happening
with this gag order on blogging. The military wants to control ALL the information coming out of Iraq, so that people at home, including families,
will not get the truth.

This is not what we want happening in the U.S. This is what happens
in a military dictatorship.

[RiDuvessa]

11. What does Hitler have to do with this?!?!?

Military commanders absolutely have the right to vet speech that may release sensitive or classified information. Military members have several limitations on their right to free speech. They can't present themselves as speaking for the military. They can't protest or join any political rally while in uniform. There are several other limitation that military members get trained on extensively.

Anyway, you were not talking about free speech in your earlier post. You were talking about civil disobedience. Which is basically disobeying orders. Military members do not have the right to disobey orders unless the order is illegal. ie. killing civilians, torturing prisoners etc.

What I am talking about is an apolitical military. A military that does not get involved with who is in charge of the government. Government by the military is about as bad as it gets. Some of the worst governments with the most human rights violations were military dictatorships. The second the military gets involved with decided who is in charge of the government civil liberties go right down the drain.

[Breeze54]

12. And the soldiers did disobey orders! 2 *thumbsup*

They have, they are and they did!


U.S. Navy personnel aboard the USS Blue Ridge push a helicopter
into the sea in order to make room for more evacuation flights
from Saigon, April 29, 1975.

But that wasn't the only reason the 'copters were thrown overboard!


One of many VNAF Huey's shoved overboard
by the crew of the Midway, April 29, 1975

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_23423.shtml

----------------------------------------------------------


Soldiers in Revolt: GI Resistance During the Vietnam War
by David Cortright (Author), Howard Zinn (Introduction)

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SR0MVQ7GL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg
The New Winter Soldiers: GI and Veteran Dissent During the Vietnam Era
(Perspectives in the Sixties) (Perspectives in the Sixties) (Paperback)
by Richard R. Moser (Author)
"SINCE THE EARLY 1970s, Veterans' Day has been a focus of activity for dissident Vietnam veterans..." (more)
http://www.amazon.com/New-Winter-Soldiers-Veteran-Perspectives/dp/0813522420/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/002-1663991-9603200

[RiDuvessa]

13. I'm not going to discuss this anymore in this thread.

It isn't relevant to the OP's message and I don't want to hijack the thread. If you want to continue this discussion offline or in a new thread, please let me know.

[mnhtnbb]

14. This administration has a penchant for "classifying" anything it

doesn't want known by anybody who might criticize it. That's a great way to limit information coming out of a war zone--that has nothing to do with jeopardizing operations.

If you don't think our military hasn't been killing civilians or torturing prisoners in Iraq, then you must be on another planet.

The military that is not prepared to question orders which violate
the spirit of our Constitution is the military that is on its way
to becoming no better than Nazis, in my opinion.

How did the holocaust go on for so long? Soldiers were 'just following orders'.

[bonito]

3. Kicking for wider viewing n/t

[Breeze54]

5. I'm a member of MFSO

They rock!!! :yourock:

[RiDuvessa]

6. That's a good website.

It's good to see that families on the our side of the issue have a place where they can speak out. Also good to have a place where they can get support while their families are overseas.

Thanks for bringing it up!