Stay home in November... and watch the whole country become fucking Arizona

[scheming daemons]

Stop the belly-aching over your pet issues not being addressed as fast as you would like.


Every single issue you have... every single one of them... is in a better place today than it would have been with a Republican congress and Republican President the past 18 months.


Whatever lack of progress you see in the issues that matter most to you, it would be much worse off without Democrats having a majority and the White House.


In 18 months since Janet Napolitano left the Arizona governorship to become DHS secretary, the state has gone completely to shit.


Look closely at Arizona. And see the future.


The future that will be this entire country if we let the Republicans take control again.


Disappointed in Obama and the Democrats in Washington? Fine... stay home in November.



...but don't bitch when we become the United States of Teabaggery because of it.

[GoneOffShore]

1. I'll be voting Dem in November.

Without fail.

[jillan]

2. Best post of the day!

:toast:

[lonestarnot]

3. Can we wear are side arms to the polls and shoot any machine that tries to cheat?

[sweetloukillbot]

180. I think we Arizonans can... n/t

[lonestarnot]

183. Yes we can!

:evilgrin:

[ourbluenation]

4. +1,000,000

:kick:

[The Magistrate]

5. True, Sir

[Political Heretic]

6. That's categorically false.

"Every single issue you have... every single one of them... is in a better place today than it would have been with a Republican congress and Republican President the past 18 months."

There's the long standing structural crisis at the heart of our political-economy that no democrat or republican in Washington is addressing....

And then there's EVERYTHING else.

As long as no Democrats or no Republicans are addressing the core failure at the very heart of our political economy - in "boom" or in "bust" - then everything else doesn't matter. Our ship is sinking with Democrats and it will be sinking with Republicans. Just because democrats might throw up some nice wallpaper while republicans would paste shit on the walls instead - that doesn't stop our ship from sinking.

So as far as I can see, since just voting for "the lesser of two evils" hasn't worked at all to address this crisis, we might as well try voting our conscience for once - and refuse to vote for any politician not willing to address the heart of our problems honestly and transparently and demand not just superficial but structural (you can call it "revolutionary" if you like, I'll call it transformative) change.

[Newest Reality]

13. +1

I agree. What's with this strong-arm OP?

You can pull the two choices on little children. They are not able to consider another choice and then choose between the two. It works well, up to a certain age. "You can clean your room now or get ready for bed."

Regardless of way the system is rigged so that the inclusion of new parties is kept out of the spotlight and only the two sides of the same coin party is supported by media and the system, we see a time when alternatives make more sense than ever. The political system seems hermetically sealed, (isn't that telling) and the American mindset is well-trained.

All we get in that direction, (besides the fact that there are several legitimate parties on ballots, but no clout) is a circus of Tea Party zombies with a strong Right leaning, no cohesive message and very little that is attractive to the larger populace.

We really need to foster choices that better represent the diversity and changes in modern political views. I think many, as well as myself, would get rather excited by a public referendum to level the playing field and bring more exposure to viable parties that have popular support.

Does anyone really see the PTB of corporations and government allowing or promoting that, though? Remember, exposure and viability go hand in hand.

[laughingliberal]

15. +1 nt

[waiting for hope]

18. Yeah your right..

this is a fallacy ..

..is in a better place today than it would have been with a Republican congress and Republican President the past 18 months ..

Google is thy friend .. ;-)

[Name removed]

156. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[waiting for hope]

172. I believe the word you wanted to use was "here"

And google is your friend ..

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=obama+continues+bush+policies&aq=0&aqi=g7g-m1&aql=&oq=Obama+continues&gs_rfai=&fp=73d2de3d8bbfa1f6

[Cali_Democrat]

19. Do you think we can count on the US Supreme Court to strike down the Arizona law?

Do you think they could rule on the side of the Constitution for once? Of course not.

That's just another reason why you need to vote Democratic. Imagine if McCain had won, instead of Sotomayor we would have another reich wing bigot on the bench.

Vote Democratic :hi:

[Kievan Rus]

25. Thats the BIGGEST reason why Democrats need to....

maintain control of Congress in 2010, 2012 and 2014, in addition to getting Obama re-elected in 2012. As goes the Supreme Court, so goes the nation. If Democrats have the Congress and White House long enough, there will eventually be a liberal majority on the SCOTUS.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

171. ANOTHER BINGO

[Political Heretic]

39. If we don't start demanding better politicians, its not going to matter.

Because we're losing the country. We're losing it on Democrat's watch and we were losing it on Republican's watch.

The only hope we have is to start saying enough is enough.

[MadMaddie]

75. If we demand better politicians is not quite right is it?

We have perfectly qualified politicians and candidates that would run if the attack machine wasn't so vicious and the money that needs to be earned wasn't so great. We have to go to public Financing before we can get more candidates to throw in their hats. We also have to fix the issue of going after people for their looks, sexual orientation, what university they went to etc...

[treestar]

67. Yes, they would

This is a clear case. They shot down some of Bushco's attempts on the Constitution.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

170. ANOTHER BINGO

[Richard Steele]

23. Very well stated. nm

[cali]

47. Even if that's true, it's not the only issue, and I'd be glad to argue

that were the repukes in control, the economic issues would be even more unequal, headed for a worse place for the poor and working classes- but it's not the only issue, even if it does loom large. Your post is nonsense. You can petulantly demand all you want and stamp your little footsie until your blue in the face and post diatribes on the big bad internet, but your chance for any positive change whatsoever is exactly nil with repukes in charge this isn't fucking rocket science, dear.

[TankLV]

104. I totally agree. It's either CHICKENS for HEALTHCARE or the imperfect we have now...

AND THIS IS LITERALLY THE CHOICE WE HAVE HERE IN NEVADA!!!

I'll take imperfect anytime...

[Political Heretic]

150. It IS the only issue that matters.

Our ship is sinking.

And you can keep talking about the position the deck chairs on that sinking ship, and supporting only politicians that are arguing about the position of the deck chairs on that sinking ship all you want.

The ship is still sinking. And yes, while the ship is sinking, it is the ONLY issue that matters.

[cali]

164. no. it's the only issue that YOU think matters.

as a prognosticator, btw, your record is not precisely sterling.

[arcadian]

63. This should be an OP

better than the miserable OP it's a response to.

[DevonRex]

70. In a Green Party or Socialist forum. NOT on DU. nt

[treestar]

66. It's absolutely true

and you're crazy if you really think Republicans are no worse. Where were you during the Bush Administration? Have you forgotten it already?

[Dream Girl]

90. Some folks are trying to demoralize us. Have you noticed?

What sense does it make NOT to vote. Why are you here???? WTF?????

[Hansel]

191. Why are they here?

Some of them for that very purpose. You'll learn to pick them out and tune them out.

And some think that being contrary about absolutely everything helps their cause. It doesn't. It just assures that the right wins.

[DevonRex]

69. You: Dems = Pubs so vote third party. Same old shit every day. nt

[Bobbie Jo]

102. Yes, this seems to be the pattern.

SSDD...Same Shit Different Day, usual suspects, etc....

[arcadian]

190. What the hell is a "Pubs"?

Is this is a football game to you?

[t0dd]

78. +1

[Individualist]

100. +1

[TankLV]

105. Sorry - but CHICKEN SUE is THE reality in Nevada - and a BAD Democrat is better.

There is NO other choice.

[MissDeeds]

114. Isn't it sad

that we've been reduced to voting for the lesser of two evils? Whatever happened to voting for the best damn candidate - who of course was a die hard Democrat who believed in "we the people"? The best seems to have been taken out of the equation. Now, the debate seems to revolve around around, "well, at least we're better than them". What a pathetic yardstick.

[ThoughtCriminal]

123. -1

Oh yes, we would be SOOOOO much better off if McCain had won :eyes:

Poverty grows under GOP rule. Shrinks when they are not.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2009/09/closing-the-book-on-the-bush-legacy/26402/

If you think you might as well stay at home and there is no difference, you lose. I have watched what has happened to my state (AZ) under total GOP rule, and I have no delusions of what the greater evil is like.

[BzaDem]

134. "since just voting for "the lesser of two evils" hasn't worked at all to address this crisis"

Why do you keep thinking that there actually is a ballot-box way to solve what you define as a structural crisis? Why do you think that NOT voting for the lesser of two evils will somehow EVER make things better, as opposed to permanently much, much worse?

I keep seeing this logic. It is mind-numming. You want outcome A. Method B (voting for the democrat) doesn't achieve outcome A. So therefore, you are going to go to method C (doing anything that makes it easier for the Republican to win), which will make the distance from reality to outcome A even greater?

Have you ever considered that maybe there is no way for you to achieve outcome A at the ballot box? In other words, method B, method C, ... and method Z all will not achieve outcome A? No matter how much you wish or beg or plead or deny?

Why do people keep thinking that there is always a way to get what they want?

That seems to be the fundamental divide between rational and irrational people on this board. The rational realize that while they want a certain outcome, there are some outcomes that just aren't going to become reality no matter what they do. Whereas the irrational people think that the outcome they desire MUST be possible, and try more and more crazy ways of achieving it (that actually have the effect of deepening the crisis).

The truth is, 97%+ of this country is satisfied enough with this country to vote for the viable candidate closest to one's views. So your argument that we are in some sort of crisis may be compelling, your argument that the method to solve it is to elect more Republicans is not compelling. How could it be compelling if only 0-3% of the country agrees with you at the ballot box?

[slay]

139. Agreed

and much better put than the - corporate dems are just as bad - speech i was about to post. we need REAL change, not cosmetic change which i'm afraid is most of what the Dems are bringing these days.

[HughMoran]

159. How can you be so utterly clueless.

"since just voting for "the lesser of two evils" hasn't worked at all to address this crisis"

Bullfucking shit. You're lost, so lost - incomprehensibly lost.

[spoony]

181. Amen. Fuck the "lesser of two evils" blackmail

our party operatives foist on us every fucking election cycle.

[Cresent City Kid]

7. Right on.

John McCain supports the Arizona profiling bill. Imagine if he was doing this from the White House, between adding two more right wingers to the Supreme Court.

[Political Heretic]

9. The entire court is right wingers. American doesn't even remember what "left" even means.

Obama appointed a new justice, and guess what that court STILL handed corporations the keys to the country.

The whole OMG A REPUBLICAN WILL ADD CONSERVUTIVE JUSTICSESSHAHA@#!!T!T! line is ridiculous. Guess what, its a conservative court. All Obama has done is maintain the status quo.

Business as usual.

[FarLeftFist]

11. Except a conservative court would overturn Roe v Wade.

[MilesColtrane]

21. Sotomayor ruled with the minority in Citizens United v. FEC.

She only agreed with the majority in the section that dealt with upholding advertising disclosure requirements as a valid government restriction on corporations.

You are right about Obama maintaining the status quo versus the left/right balance of the Court. But, that's a good thing, considering that was the best he could do with the one appointment available to him at the time.

[Cresent City Kid]

22. What did you expect?

There's a difference between maintaining the status quo, and stemming the tide.

If everyone is so far to the right of you that you can't see the differences, I don't know what to tell you. Staying home on election day waiting for the perfect candidate gave us Bush. The whole world is fucked up. Republicans make it worse.

[CTLawGuy]

46. umm she voted with the dissent in that case

Obama only gets to appoint justices when space opens up for them. So excuse him for not immediately changing the course of the court with his one pick...

[Political Heretic]

145. Or his next pick.....

See the pattern?

[CTLawGuy]

185. I don't see any pattern

sorry. You need more than one instance of something to have a pattern.

[cali]

48. that's absolutely false.

What did you want Sotomayor to do? Hold a frickin' pistol to Kennedy's head?

You are so full of.... it.

[Political Heretic]

146. What difference does it make if its 6-3 or 5-4? None at all.

[cali]

163. do I really have to explain something so basic? I know you're not a moron

but the ideological blinders you sport, render you blind. First of all, Kennedy is a swing vote on several issues- including Roe and what's more he's 73. So is Scalia. Odds are that one will retire/die in the next 6 years. If Obama is in office, he'll nominate their replacements, and yes, whoever he names will be very different than whoever Palin/Romney/Huckabee names. Furthermore, Ginsberg is also getting up there.

It's just absurd that you don't see what's right in front of your (blindered) eyes.

[scheming daemons]

58. Um... she voted with *US* on that issue.... It's not like Obama had the opportunity to replace a

conservative judge.

The judge he *DID* name voted exactly how I presume you would have wanted her to.


Instead of a 5-4 decision.... it would have been 6-3 with a McCain nominee.



If you're too thick to see the difference between the kinds of judges Obama is nominating and the kinds of judges the Republicans would nominate, then you're a lost cause.

[Political Heretic]

144. I'm sorry, how did the court rule again?

Okay then.

I really don't give a fuck how who voted.

"Instead of a 5-4 decision.... it would have been 6-3 with a McCain nominee."

And that matters....fucking how exactly?

[CTLawGuy]

186. so if he had appointed Dennis Kucinich

or someone sufficiently left for you, how would the decision have changed?

[scheming daemons]

192. So you're going to blame Democrats EQUALLY with Republicans?

When the Democratic nominated justices all voted the right way and the Republican nominated judges all voted the wrong way?


That decision made it perfectly clear that there is a DISTINCT difference between Democrats and Republicans.... it showed in that case.


Your "Democrats and Republicans are equally bad" meme was disproven right there.

[treestar]

68. Such tunnel vision

You seem to know about the existence of only one case. Or cherry pick cases to fit pre-decided conclusions.

[BzaDem]

135. I'm glad there are many others here calling you on your BS.

As everyone else here is pointing out, Sotomayor voted against the majority on Citizens United. You are blaming Obama for the fact that 5 justices previously put on the court voted for Citizens United. You talk as if you don't understand that the Constitution doesn't allow Obama to replace currently sitting justices. What ignorance.

[HughMoran]

161. Yes, replacing one liberal justice with another liberal justice didn't change the balance

...so it might as well be 9 conservative justices, correct?

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[SPedigrees]

29. Shudder! And if he kicked while in office, Alaska Barbie would be running things.

Let's hope we can hold onto the WH and the Congress.

[Political Heretic]

8. As soon as Democrats give me something to vote for, I'll be right there.

The blame lies with the Democratic Party for any defeat it may experience.

I'm more than ready - in fact absolutely eager, to vote for politicians who are willing to prioritize the needs of the poor ahead of the whims of the financial elite, or build they campaign platform around addressing http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8187415">this crisis by name, directly and identify its core causes by name, directly.

Until then, you can blame them for their own losses.

[scheming daemons]

60. Well.... the Republicans are certainly giving you something to vote AGAINST

I hope you like Arizona politics.

Coming to a state near you after November, if too many people have your attitude.

[Political Heretic]

154. So are Democrats.

Sad. :(

[MadMaddie]

76. Well vote for Nader then...that should make you happy

oh wait...that worked out so well for us last time!!

40 years of Republican insidious rule and 1.5 years you expect EVERYTHING to turn on a dime.....not going to happen. Even if the economy was kicking ass many of the necessary changes would not be happening overnight.

[Political Heretic]

153. I'd rather vote for real democrats.

When you find some, let me know!

[Dream Girl]

91. What are you doing here anyway? Telling us not to vote. Who does that serve?

[Political Heretic]

151. I'm not telling anyone not to vote. I'm telling everyone to vote for people who deserve it.

the real question is, why are you hoping that is Democrats, and working to ensure that it will be Democrats?

[cali]

173. hardly. you're being completely disingenuous.

[SPedigrees]

93. If you are not committed to supporting democrats, what are

you doing on this forum?

[Zhade]

103. This is not a solely Dem party hangout. Go read the About section.

NT!

[Political Heretic]

152. I didn't leave the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party left me.

We need to take the Democratic Party back. That's why I'm here. And I'm not going anywhere. Whether you like it or not. Deal with it.

[TxVietVet]

162. My sentiments exactly.

When the Democratic leadership took over the House and Senate, Nancy Pelosi made the statement that impeachment was not on the table.
That's when the Democratic Party and I parted ways. I WAS a good contributor to the party and it's various committees.
Not after her statement. I have written to every entity of the Democratic Party that tries to seek funds from me. I tell them why I will not financially support them any more. I never get an answer. Not even when they call me. Well, I now contribute to PROGRESSIVE candidates that I can believe in. Not the party. AS for the party loyalty, it's their fault, not mine.

Now, since the Dems FAILED to investigate and impeach bu$h/cheney, the next conservanazi regime that takes over will be a lot worse. First it was Nixon with Watergate, then ronnie raygun with Iran-Contra and the October Surprise, then this last bu$h, the bonified idiot. They circumvented the Constitution. Violated citizens rights. Like I said, the next conservanazi regime will be a lot worse. And if the Dems don't stand up to them, it's the end of this republic. IT will be a fascist regime.

[BzaDem]

138. The funny thing is that Democrats who lose elections really end up just fine afterwards.

They easily make 6 figure salaries without even applying. They are sought after. The job market for former members of Congress is booming.

So while you say the "blame lies with the Democratic party," just realize that the actual Democratic losers of elections are all laughting at you. They will just sit and wait for you to come around. And you will eventually come around. 90% of the Naderites in 2000 came around. You can vote against your own interests, but few people continue to vote irrationally after several years of reality smacking them right in the face. The Bush presidency is a perfect example of this.

[FarLeftFist]

10. And this law is going to help the republicans win minority votes how?

Oh Yeah, they don't care about minorities. Even legal minorities should be scared of republicans no matter what state they live in, this could happen anywhere!

[bobbolink]

12. Yes, how very PETTY of me to demand that homelessness be remedied. I should be happy to live in my

car, as long as there is a "D" in power.

When YOU start caring for people you consider of no consequence, maybe THEN we will have a nation once again.

[laughingliberal]

16. +1000 nt

[NaturalHigh]

41. Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen either party take a stand on homelessness in years.

Homelessness is possibly our country's greatest shame, and both parties seem to act as if it doesn't exist. They're too busy throwing a billion dollars a day at the war in Iraq and locking up pot smokers.

[bobbolink]

126. That's exactly right. We don't exist. But I'm not supposed to mention it.

That would be "selfish", and "petty", when we have the answer to everything that everyone ELSE wants in the White House.

I shouldn't be concerned about my petty need for a place to live. It just doesn't rank.

[MadMaddie]

77. We care about the homeless, the children and Americans

we also care about the state of our soldiers coming home broken and not enough support.

The economy is broken, the jobs are slow coming back.

Manufacturing must come back to this country, unfortunately Clinton gave us Nafta, Cafta and other fucked up trade laws that have destroyed America. These trade laws must be fixed for America to prosper again and to take care of those that need it.

[bobbolink]

127. Talk is cheap.

[NaturalHigh]

128. Exactly, and that's all we get from most politicians of EITHER party.

[bobbolink]

133. Could you please show me where "progressives" have PUSHED politicians on homelessness?

[MilesColtrane]

14. The number one rule of politics for a voter should be...'First Do Less Harm'.

That's the only sane response in the locked-down two party system we have now.

I damn well WILL continue to vote for the lesser of two evils until Instant Runoff Voting gains a foothold in the process.

[BreweryYardRat]

20. Exactly. n/t

[Cresent City Kid]

32. The system will change slowly if at all

The Democrats may or may not help, but the republicans will certainly screw us. This is the sad reality of our situation. Our best option seems to be to hold our heads barely above water, or be dunked deeper. It is not the same thing to vote for a Democrat, and to be blind to their faults. At least there is a chance that they can change from within. It sucks, it's unfair, and may not even work, but republicans will crush even that slim possibility of hope.

[Political Heretic]

147. We're losing America under Democrats and We're losing American under Republicans.

Doesn't really matter which "lesser evil" you vote for if we lose the country.

Maybe it time to stop sucking off politicians of any political persuasion that refuse to address our national crisis and start demanding those who will.

Because your way isn't working.

[MilesColtrane]

177. I hope you keep track of...

how many third party candidates you vote for that actually get elected, so you can let us all know how that works out for you.

[flvegan]

17. When do I get to bitch about why we aren't the United States of Progressivery?

That powder is so fucking dry it's going to turn to dust and blow away. We got the WH. We got Congress.

I won't stay home in November, I'll just hold my nose and aimlessly click at D politicians because that's what they expect us to do.

Bullshit.

[scheming daemons]

61. Bitching is fine.... staying home on election day isn't

[hulka38]

175. "Fine... stay home in November" - that's what you say in your OP

Which is it? It's important that I know whether you think it's fine or not fine that I stay home. It'll help me shape my decision.

[Political Heretic]

148. Democratic politicians can try blaming them fucking selves for their own failures

..instead of blaming everyone else for once.

[Kievan Rus]

24. The GOP base is all wound up. We've got to get our base like it was in '06 and '08

[krabigirl]

137. The GOP is fractured.

[NanceGreggs]

26. Amen.

:kick: & REC'D!

[PufPuf23]

27. I believe with slight hype you are correct.

We still need to vote Democratic Party. I will.

We need to improve the Party.

The status quo can and must be made better. In every movement and thought forward to a sustainble-adjustable non-anthrocentric Earth, non-violent (physical or psychic) human relations, and social justice - the Golden Rule.

There is no excuse to not label and bring to justice those that walk free from individuals that chuckle at their opportunites to chuckle at decency yet lead and command and fog. Oftentimes to address the past is to address the future.
\

blahblah blah

[kurtzapril4]

125. Sure, I'll still vote for Democrats

But I'll hold my nose while I do it, and rain curses on their heads at the same time. I feel deeply betrayed by my party. Frankly, I'm sad. I'm a "fucking retard."

It's going to be interesting to see if/how the DLC, et. al, suck up to us "fucking retards" as Nov. gets closer. I'm thinking I'm going to give them a hard time. They deserve it, they have left me. I'm for sure going to vote for the green party for IL state offices.

Someday, I hope to see the Democratic wing of the Democratic party become prominent again. But I'm a "fucking retard."

[AllentownJake]

28. Ridiculous

Pat Toomey didn't go from a sure double digit loser to being given a 71% chance to win by Nate Silver by my belly aching, he went there from administration and congressional action and lack of action.

You think Pat Toomey resonates if the President or congress are doing a "good job" in a state the President carried by 10 points 2 years ago? What the fuck do you think is going on right now in this country? FDR says I welcome their hatred to the banking interest in reaction to a crisis they caused. Uses real populism and follows it up with action. What the hell is Barack doing, giving stern lectures with platitudes and pleas for civility? Give me a fucking break, and that is my fucking pet issue, and the issue that 2010 is going to be won or lost on.

Let them fail sounds a shit load better to the average American than what happened the past 2 years right now and what is going on, because they've been left to let fail.

Sorry, the party faithful will be out in force in November, the party hasn't done enough for regular people in my state as of 4/24/2010 at 1am in the morning EST to prevent what looks like is about to happen.

The President's interference in PA democratic primary politics, didn't help matters either when he moved a competitive GOP primary into a competitive DNC primary by welcoming and endorsing an 80 year old man into the party instead of letting Pennsylvanian's make up their minds and activating the Rendell machine on his behalf for a deal on a bad Health Care bill.

Seriously, I already see the DLC ready to blame the liberals for their failures in governance of 2008-2010.

This makes me literally sick to my stomach, yeah I'll vote for Specter in November but I ain't canvassing for an 80 year old man who helped to cover up the JFK assassination because Barack is playing Chicago style politics in the party in DC.

Don't you fucking blame me when the predictable happens because the very machine politics the President fought against in my state in 2008 during the primary is now being used as his personal tool and the independents revolt over it.

[BzaDem]

140. Why do you think you have the power to "Let them fail"?

Failure for a Democratic election at the ballot box usually means that they almost immediately get a job that pays much, much more and don't look back.

While the idea that voting for the Democrat "hasn't worked" so we need to "let them fail" instead may sound soothing or theraputic, the idea that anything you do will cause them to "fail" really doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saracat]

31. I will never vote GOP And I won't stay home in NOV but I will never

stop "belly aching" about my "pet issues" of choice and civil rights. Sorry but I will not stop until this Admin takes action on those issues .The fact that they are not only actively dragging their feet on DADT deliberately but chose to reinforce Hyde says a lot and it isn't to their credit. Spin it however you choose. And before you use Janet and Arizona as an example remember who took her out of Arizona ,knowing full well this would happen. And I also want to point out that if Arizona Democrat Party had given a damn about its local candidates instead of putting all their efforts into closing the gap between McCain and Obama, we wouldn't be facing this issue today.

[ScreamingMeemie]

33. I don't consider equal rights for all a "pet issue" and...

we're doing a fine job of becoming the United States of Teabaggery with Dems in office. What we need are Dems with spines for once.

[laughingliberal]

36. Agree 100%. nt

[GirlAfire]

116. Agreed n/t

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laughingliberal]

35. Yes, bellyaching about our pet issues not being addressed fast enough

Obviously written by someone whose 'pet issue' isn't whether he will be able to eat next week or ever find another job. The threats, the cheerleading, the denial that our elected leaders are working for the same people the other party's elected leaders are working for-it's obnoxious. At what point does our party decide that what's important to us matters? And if we keep voting for them, does that not justify, in their minds, their ignoring of the will of their voters and give them what they need to keep marching to the right? After all, if we keep electing them doesn't that tell them we're happy with what they're doing (or not doing)?

There really is a point where the 'not as bad as the other guys' wears thin.

edited punctuation

[Oregone]

37. Demagoguertastic

[Maru Kitteh]

38. K'd and R'd

[NaturalHigh]

40. If I see anyone worth voting for, then I will go to the polls in November.

If not, I'll stay home. Same for 2012.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skittles]

43. just because we could have had worse

does not mean we could not have had better - please, give this tired meme a rest

[cornermouse]

44. Address the issues using and adopting traditional

democratic positions and values and I'll vote for you. Temporary utilization of the democratic positions and values while running for office followed by abandonment of those same positions and issues is not good enough.

[divvy]

45. Watch the resulting impact on your "pet issue" if the baggers win.

[cali]

49. The depth of the stupidity of the "it makes no difference if repukes control the gov't

or if dems do" is brilliantly illustrated in this thread. It's just awesome.

[old mark]

50. Rec. I have been saying this for months - we not only CAN win in November,

we MUST!!!
The GOP is absolutely insane, and this is OUR COUNTRY we are talking about, not some idealized concept...
Look at Arizona, Florida, and New Jersey and see the way the republicans are running these states...
Complain as loud and often as you please, but VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS!!!
Rec.
m

[TankLV]

109. Hey - don't forget Nevada and CHICKEN SUE's HEALTH PLAN!!!

I feel slighted...!!!

[MadHound]

51. Yeah, ignore the fact that Dems are stilling killing innocents, just like 'Pugs

Ignore the fact that Dems are still dismantling education, just like 'Pugs

Ignore the fact that Dems are still snubbing the LGBT community, just like the 'Pugs

Just ignore all that and more, because all that is simply (and dismissively) "pet issues"

Just let fear, mindless fear, be your voting guide.

I remember one time when we laughed at this trait in 'Pugs, now here we are, doing it ourselves. Hypocrisy much?

[WeDidIt]

52. First they came for the Hispanic people

but I wasn't Hispanic, so I didn't speak out.

Then they came for the LGBT people, but I wasn't LGBT so I didn't speak out...

The canard of "it couldn't happen here" has been "thrown under the bus".

It IS happening here.

And it's happening now.

[tallahasseedem]

53. +1

And we all know those who sit-out will be bitching here if we lose.

[Mithreal]

54. -1

Pathetic tripe.

[QC]

55. "pet issues"

It's true. You really are incapable of posting even one line that is not snide and patronizing.

[Tailormyst]

56. Like that silly equality stuff- that can wait.

People should stop being selfish, second class is not so bad. It could be THIRD class.

Fear fear fear omg vote fear fear fear omg vote fear fear fear

[SPedigrees]

96. Fear has nothing to do with it. It is the logical and predictable

conclusion of not voting or throwing away your vote on a 3rd party candidate - republican crazies at the helm.

Fear is optional, but personally I should think any sane person would fear the republican model of United States of Arizona.

[mitchtv]

111. oh yeah, vote for his pet issue

you'rs can wait. After all, you don't count. you already cost us the '04 election. This OP is enough to make me gag

[socialist_n_TN]

57. My ideology is in my name, but....................

my politics has always been practical. There are times in history when the only thing you can do is vote for the lesser of two evils and try to get better choices in the future. The last 30 years have been these types of times. Ergo, even though there's not a socialist running anywhere this year, I'll hold my nose and vote for any Dem over any Rep.

I'm a LITTLE bit encouraged that there are a couple more choices in Dem primaries this year. Here's to having even more in the future.

[spanone]

59. k&r....

[Fla_Democrat]

62. but, it's a dry heat.

:smoke:

[LWolf]

64. I always vote, and I always stay home.

My ballot is mailed to me, along with everyone else in my state.

I always vote, and, like always, I'll vote for the best candidate on the ballot. If there are no acceptable candidates, I'll write someone in.

Belly-aching? YOUR DAMNED FUCKING STRAIGHT I WILL USE MY "PET" ISSUES TO DECIDE MY VOTE. NOBODY WHO SUPPORTS THE OBAMA/DUNCAN UNION-BUSTING/PRIVATIZATION PLAN FOR PUBLIC EDUCATION WILL GET MY VOTE. NOBODY WHO SUPPORTS THE WAR ON TERROR WILL GET MY VOTE. NOBODY WHO SUPPORTS INSURANCE MANDATES AND FOR-PROFIT HEALTH "CARE" GETS MY VOTE. NO PRIVATIZERS, UNION-BUSTERS, CORPORATISTS, CENTRISTS, DLCERS, "3RD WAY" OR "NEW" DEMS, OR THEIR FRIENDS, THE REPUBLICANS, WILL GET MY VOTE.

You can bitch about THAT all YOU want. If you don't like it, do what you can to get acceptable candidates on the ballot.

[Mithreal]

73. +1

:applause:

[treestar]

65. If only there were a double and triple recommend!

Some people don't want to deal with this reality.

[nannah]

71. thanks; this so needs to be said. n/t

[walldude]

72. Why is it I should follow you?

Offshore drilling? Nuclear Power? No rights for gays? CIA Death Squads? The Patriot Act? Allowing war criminals to go free?


Wow so which of my "pony's" should I throw away? The environment? Human rights? The Constitution?

Yes we would be worse off with a Republican in office. So that means I have to vote for a Democrat no matter how many times they fuck up? What are you kidding?

Maybe if instead of making excuses for the Democrats, we actually held their feet to the fire we'd be in a better place. Maybe if instead of berating people who are righteously angry about their civil rights, about the environment, about the tearing up of the constitution, maybe if you joined their chorus instead of making lame excuses for the Democrats you might give me a reason to follow you.

[socialist_n_TN]

87. Change takes time.......................

other than by revolution of course. The conditions are not right for a revolution in this country yet (at least a revolution from the left), ergo it's gonna take time.

Hold Dems' feet to the fire like they have in AR. and PA. and primary the hell out of the DINOs. There's no guarantee that the challengers will win either the primary or the general, but THAT'S the way to hold the Dems accountable, not by electing Republicans who would be infinitely worse.

[walldude]

89. Change takes time? Some of the policies I listed were implemented by Dems

are you saying they will change what they have already done? They are going to back out on Nuclear power? On Drilling? On CIA Death Squads?


I find it hard to believe that so many people here were so adamant about their rights when Bush started illegally wiretapping people, but turn a completely blind eye to the order of assassination of a US citizen on the word of the government alone.

Obama passed a policy that is not only in direct violation of the constitution but a violation of one of the most basic tenants of Freedom. The right to face your accusers in a court of law. The right to confront the evidence against you in open court and to be judged by a jury of your peers.

But it's ok, because it's those really nice Democrats who are doing it, they would never abuse a power like that. :eyes:

[socialist_n_TN]

189. Yes time. And yes, I HONESTLY think that Dems......................

would be less likely (MUCH less) to abuse that kind of power. Does that mean I like it? Nope. Does that mean I have any fucking idea WHY the Obama people are doing shit like this? Not really although I do have my suspicions. But here's where the "time" thing comes in.

For the past 30 years this country has been right wing. SO right wing in fact, that the only way a Dem could even be elected was to be center-right and even then s/he was STILL called a socialist. For 60+% of the population my IDEOLOGY (see my posting name)was an anathema. And I'm fucking THRILLED that 36% of the population no longer has a negative feeling about "socialists". That's progress that took place over THIRTY FUCKING YEARS! I didn't and don't expect this country to change into a "peoples republic" overnight. Short of violent revolution (which would have it's OWN set of problems), it's going to take TIME for this mindset to change.

That's why a centrist/pragmatist like Obama is doing some of this crap, IMO. To satisfy that center/right majority in the country. The only way to REALLY change things is to get the population to the point politically that OBAMA and the DLC is the right wing. And that can be done, short of violent revolution, only by continuing to vote more and more left. But VOTE is the key word. You vote as left as possible in the primaries, then hold your nose and do the same in the general. THEN, and only then, will you see some of these violations of human rights overturned. A centrist like Obama is NOT going to stand in the way of a left wing tsunami. But you've got to show him the tsunami.

[IndianaGreen]

74. Human rights, economic justice, habeas corpus, and peace are not pet issues!

Using fear mongering to get us to buy off on corporatist legislation like HCR and the proposed Climate bill compromise won't work no more!

Our task is to only vote for those that have a proven record of supporting the working class.

Our votes are not for sale!

[robinblue]

80. well said.

[Forkboy]

83. They are to the OP.

And those like him.

[cali]

85. really? where does the op indicate what you claim?

[Fumesucker]

86. Judging by the posts of the OP that I have read..

The only thing that is not a "pet issue" to them is whether or not the winner has a "D" by their name.

[Forkboy]

106. " Stop the belly-aching over your pet issues not being addressed as fast as you would like."

Equal rights isn't a pet issue to me. Is it to you? Maybe hunger and the poor are pet issues to you? Yes? No? There's still a war going on where more American men and women are dying than at any other time. Pet issue to you, cali? At the same time, a lot of innocent Afghans are dying. Again, pet issue to you, or not?

People using the term "pet issue" to describe these topics are saying more about themselves than they would care to admit. The OP is just another weak attempt to tell people sit down and shut up and quit bitching, and here you are buying it hook, line, rod, sinker and copy of Angling Monthly.

You should probably argue with someone else today, because this is as diplomatic as I'll be getting on the topic.

[QC]

119. The LGBT members of this site are very familiar with the term "pet issues"

because it has for more than two years now been a favorite way to patronize and demean us, especially popular with the same crowd that brought DU such gems of sophisticated, intelligent discourse as: "Thank you for your concern," "I want a p--y and I want it now!" and "Bitter much?"

As far as I have been able to tell over these many years, the only issue truly dear to the OP's heart is being hateful to people.

[Forkboy]

120. Exactly.

And the people who keep using the term go to bed each night comfortable in the knowledge THEY have their rights.

The time to be most aware of what others lack is when you don't.

[Maat]

110. +1

Thank you for speaking up, IG.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

79. I'll happily vote for the Democrats...if they earn my vote.

I see no reason to wast my vote on Democrats who support or cave to Republican ideals.

[NaturalHigh]

88. That concept seems alien to many.

The idea that someone needs to earn our votes, money, time, etc. We're all just supposed to shut up and toe the party line.

[conspirator]

81. It did not become Arizona under 8 years bush. Your point is VOID nt

[SPedigrees]

94. Beg to differ. Wiretaps, torture, war, gitmo, patriot act.

Felt like Arizona to this liberal from Vermont.

[conspirator]

187. Obama would have invaded Afghanistan & Iraq. With regards to racial issues bush was actually good

He apointed Collin Powell and then Condi for a reason.
8 years later the US had its first black president.

[Jennicut]

82. If Rethugs take control of Congress, we will have gridlock. If they take control of the Presidency

in 2012, then we will have Arizona. The Dems are far from perfect. They are essentially what the Rethug Party was once a long time ago. The Rethugs have gone off the deep end. Reality is reality. I won't be staying home waiting for perfection in Nov.

[butterfly77]

84. K&R!

[Patriot 76]

92. Ain't that the truth.

Don't let those who would hold their votes hostage here sway you.

Most rational human beings do not cut off their nose to spite their face.

[calimary]

95. There ought to be a bumper sticker of that exact subject line.

You wanna wind up like Arizona? You want to live in a country formally ruled by the frickin' Teabaggers? STILL think there's no difference between the parties?

[Individualist]

97. Save the coercion for the gullible.

Damn the DLC.

[Maat]

98. What about denial of habeas corpus rights?

What about denial of Geneva-Convention-related rights?

That's our foundation. That's what America is, or used to be - the country that did not hold individuals without charges.

Is that just a pet issue?

I watched Obama stand up and advocate for "prolonged detention." Let me spell that out for you - that's the denial of habeas-corpus-related and Geneva-Convention-related rights. That's just vile. How am I supposed to vote for Democrats who have done nothing to restore the very meaning of our country?

What about Obama continued practice of rendition (apparently because it's not 'extraordinary rendition,' it's o.k.)?

What about Obama's ordering the assassination of a U.S. citizen? Is that just a pet issue?

[Arkana]

99. I think your post would have been better without the first line about pet issues.

GLBT folks have legitimate gripes with Obama, I think.

As far as everything else though you're right.

[TankLV]

112. I'M GAY! MY RIGHTS ARE NOT A "PET" ISSUE! And I AGREE with the OP!

ALL of the issues the others have raised in reasons why they WON'T vote for Dems, are MY issues too.

But I'm not stupid enough to think we'd be better with a repuke in office.

I absolutely HATE Harry Reid for his quizzling and incompetance and ignoring SINGLE PAYER let alone the Public Option - but I'm DEATLY AFRAID of Chicken Sue!

Harry will get my vote in November.

The alternatives are too horrible to even consider.

[Zhade]

101. Oh, I'll be voting. But that doesn't mean I'll support anyone who lied to or betrayed me.

By the way, my rights as a gay atheist are not pet issues, so fuck off with your smarmy demands.

[G_j]

107. please explain how

the prospect of bringing the Bush criminals to justice, has improved?
It appears to have diminished.

[TK421]

108. or you could just root for the Phillies tonight against Arizona

hey, it's still a PA team, right?

[barbtries]

113. i agree

the only way we lose is if we don't show up.

[scentopine]

115. LOL! False Choice - If Obama was really effective, Arizona would

have never happened at all because he would be using a bully pulpit to reign in the right wingers instead of being on his kneees capitulating to the right wing with this bi-partisan bullshit.

No - its third party for me and write-in. I used to laugh at the "Nader" vote. I finally get it. Took me 30 years of blind loyalty to democrats to realize I've been a fool.

If you are supporting mainstream politics you are supporting main stream media - they are one in the same.

Republican or democrat - its a convergence of the worst of neo-con and neo-lib philosophy. Destructive ideas that suck wealth from people and distribute it to a tiny oligarchy.

If there isn't pressure for real opposition and real reform, there will be no change.

Change cannot happen from within the democratic party. It is impossible.

Just look at the "civil" suit against GS. Its like prosecuting Scooter Libby for Iraq war lies and torture.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

121. You say........Breeders like the poster make you sick?

Well, it may not be of comfort to you,
but at least when you go to the hospital now,
your loved ones will be able to visit you,
regardless of who they are.

You may not think that this is "being better off",
but there are many who, when faced with the circumstance,
would prefer that this directive be in place,
than not.

The OP poster was simply saying something that is the truth;
we are currently going in the right direction with the Democrats,
albeit not far or fast enough......
however, if we don't retain the majorities that we have,
the direction that we will go in will be a backward one, and there is no
reasoning that would support that as being preferrable,
nothwithstanding simply wanting to "teach others a lesson"....
as this will not give anyone more.....not even close.

It is unfortunate that some folks refuse to appreciate even small advances,
because they simply feel like if they do that, they won't get anything else.
There is a way one can appreciate the small changes made to date under the Obama admin,
and yet still demand more. There is no contradiction in holding both views, as there
is no rule written anywhere. Because know that those small gains, should not wait to be
appreciate after they are no longer available.....cause believe it or not,
things can always get worse (that's what Arizona shows us), and oftentime they will
if we rationalize that taking small gains for granted will indirectly help a cause,
cause I don't really think so.

What you are doing; advocating the view that unless you have it all,
than none of it matters is an emotional reaction and a strategic gamble
that could bring unintended consequences to millions, and that perhaps you are ready to deal with
fully, but of course, no one cause is only about one person's strategic gamble.

I do understand that although one should always go for the whole enchilada.......
one should not pretend that going backwards and going forwards means one is headed
in the same direction, because that is simply not true......
even if out of anger or disappointment or whatever.

Certainly it is very true that "partial Rights" are not a substitution of "full Rights",
.....but I'll tell you, "an assault on the few Rights already gained" should not be an option
that you would want to see realized, not even to get "even" or to "send a message"....although
in the end, of course, you will do what you think is right, regardless.

[leveymg]

118. Thanks for the rousing lecture. But, if we're discouraged it's because we've been taken for grante

We, the Progressive activists and the Party base put Obama and the current Democratic Congress in office. We've been ignored since.

Sure, I'll vote, but I doubt I'll work nearly as hard to campaign to send them back. Nothing can change that, except for change. And, there's been too bloody little of it.

[theaocp]

122. Vote for change & PRIMARY

all incumbents. It's the only way they'll listen. Even and especially Obama. If he's half as successful as his cheerleaders claim, he'll come through it easily and be stronger for the experience. Primary. Primary. Primary.

[Ardent15]

124. There's a reason so many people don't vote...

..and it has nothing to do with Republicans.

Unrecommended.

[Zenlitened]

129. Worst. Pep talk. Ever.

[QC]

130. You people are just too caught up in your little pet issues. That's all.

:sarcasm:

[Individualist]

131. +1

[Meshuga]

132. Exactly, Arizona should be used as motivation n/t

[krabigirl]

136. Yep.

[MadHound]

141. Answer this question then. Why should I vote against my own self interests?

I have an administration, aided and abetted by the Democratic party, actively privatizing the public school system. As a newly minted teacher coming onto the market, this dramatically lowers my chance of getting hired, lowers my pay if I do get hired, and lowers my overall satisfaction with my job as I will now be more concerned with various standardized tests than whether my students actually learn.

I have an administration continuing two illegal, immoral wars that are eating up incredible quantities of money, material and people, threatening my future well being. This steadily increases the probability that this country will collapse Soviet style, spending all of our resources on imperial wars while those of us at home at increasingly suffering and impoverished.

I have an administration that is not only continuing, but expanding the assault on our civil liberties.

These, and other issues supported by this administration and the Democratic party directly work against my own self interests. Therefore why should I vote against my own self interests. We used to wonder why rank and file 'Pugs would vote against their own self interests by voting for the Bush administration and members of the Republican party, yet now we're getting herded into doing the same thing ourselves. Why should I follow that path?

[Taitertots]

142. Vote for policies you don't want to prevent policies you don't want

If we stopped voting for corporate shills from either party we could have a viable third party.

[workinclasszero]

143. Your papers please!

If the teabaggers win in November, this country is doomed!

I'll be voting Dem, thats for damn sure!

[Touchdown]

149. YAWN! Tired lectures on being screwed by a nicer party are so 2008.

Move along.

[Vermontgrown]

155. Get out and vote. Vote for unions and vote for democrats.

[Dappleganger]

157. Not just anti-Republican, but anti-Tea Party

Think about that every morning and show up at the polls to make sure that the worst of the worst do NOT get control!

[UrbScotty]

158. Said it better than I could!

:applause:

[tekisui]

160. It seems like AZ would have been better off had Napolitano atayed as Governor

Your threats ring hollow. I have never planned on staying home, but I have never planned on staying quiet, either.

[sendero]

165. I DON'T CARE,,

.... I am not voting for these do-nothing Dems and I don't give A SHIT what happens. The sooner this fucked up country hits rock bottom the better.

[conspirator]

188. +1 nt

[hulka38]

166. "Every single issue you have... every single one of them...

is in a better place today than it would have been with a Republican congress and Republican President the past 18 months."

Let's get this straight. You don't own the recent Democratic victories that led to large majorities and a Democratic President any more than I or any other disgruntled liberal who voted in November does.

And watch your tone - "fucking" "bitch"

[Name removed]

167. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

168. You have a BIG point there . . .

but I think a little less attitude would be more helpful!!

[SidDithers]

169. Good post. K&R...nt

Sid

[VMI Dem]

174. Centrists are getting nervous I see.

Need those naive liberals to keep the machine rolling.

[pundaint]

176. Hey, guess what, Liberals get to make demands and vote their will too. Deal with it.

There has been no lack of notice what it will take to earn Liberal's votes. If the Democrats don't want to make the deal, don't blame the Liberals. Some of us just don't see the expansion of for profit healthcare with customers by force of law, the expansion of war, and the failure to address manifest corporate corruption as deserving of contract renewal. If there's not some delivery of real value between now and the elections, Liberals would be chumps to vote this group back into office.

[wisteria]

178. It doesn't matter, the Democrat Party is putting its own nail in it own coffin. n/t

[MilesColtrane]

179. It's called the Democratic Party.

[MrScorpio]

182. Damn Skippy, SD!

[DCBob]

184. Totally agree but I think the bigger issue is complacency from the millions of less involved Dems..

who usually only vote in general elections or maybe voted for the first time in 2008. Somehow we need to make sure these people vote again in Nov. If they show, we win... simple as that.