what do you think of the idea of scottish independence

[miscsoc]

i joined the snp a couple of weeks ago

be interested to hear from scots, englishmen, american faux-scots and everyone else

[HopeHoops]

1. Will they take Texas, Alaska, and Arizona with them?

:shrug:

[Donnachaidh]

2. oh HELL no. They're trying to get away from a-holes

They don't need to import the worst from here.

[HopeHoops]

33. I know. It was still worth a shot.

[Donnachaidh]

41. LOL! n/t

[JoDog]

3. Nah

We can't stand them either.

JoDog--About 1/8 Scot

[DefenseLawyer]

4. The trouble with Scotland

is that it's full of Scots.

[miscsoc]

9. sassenach spotted

[Captain Hilts]

14. It's also crawling with Irish and English! Lousy with 'em!!

[Warpy]

18. My favorite scene in that movie

was when the Scots and Irish charged each other, only to greet each other in the middle like the long lost relatives they pretty much are.

"Irish!"

Centuries later, they used Protestant Scots to colonize northern Ireland, thinking that would tame the papist state to the west and decrease the perceived threat.

They were wrong.

[CTyankee]

24. The Clearances of the 18th century are responsible for my being here.

In 1790 my forebear, a Campbell, left Scotland, forced out by the Clearances, and came to Georgia (possibly by way of South Carolina). This was on my mother's side of the family...

[Thothmes]

40. Serves you right for Glencoe

[CTyankee]

43. Huh? I'll have to look that up. Never heard about Glecoe. I thought the Clearances were

are the bad of the English? WTF?

[Thothmes]

45. In popular Scottish lore in Feb 1692 a band of Campbells

attacked a MacDonald sept at Glencoe. Killed most of the men women and children. The real history is not quite the same.

[CTyankee]

48. These Scots were a murderous lot...doesn't surprise me...nt

[Maine-ah]

52. hmmm, same name, same situation, same year lol

it's possible we're related :hi: this is also my mother's side of the family. I'm sticking you in my friends list...going to talk to my Mom, then I will PM you, if ok?

[a la izquierda]

54. Oh my god, you're a Campbell...

the worst of 'em all, says my Dad. ;)

[JaneQPublic]

28. Geneticists found little difference between the Irish & the Scots

I've been reading "Saxons, Vikings, and Celts: The Genetic Roots of the British Isles" by Bryan Sykes. In it, his research shows that genetically, there is scant little difference between the Irish and the Scots.

Finding that info helped to end a long-standing debate in our family of whether we are really Irish or Scottish, with everyone concluding "To-May-To, To-Mah-To."

It is a terrible shame that while the Irish and Scots got along fine for centuries (being clansmen and all), the English set up a powderkeg situation by taking land away from native Irish to give it to the Protestant Scots.

[Warpy]

29. My own Irish family were sailors

who brought their wives home from faraway lands, so the actual Irish genes are pretty thinned out. The culture is still Irish, though. I'm always amazed when some bit of Irish nonsense pops up into my daily life.

And yes, it's really a shame they took cultural allies and turned them into enemies. The Irish Troubles have always been an anticolonial war instead of a religious or cultural war.

[Captain Hilts]

46. Same here. They've gone back and forth so many times between the two countries.

The whole Susan Boyle - is she Scottish or Irish - thing is confusing the shit out of a large percentage of the planet.

What the hell, let them be confused. My last name is Scottish and my first name Irish. There you go.

So, I root for Celtic and St. Johnstone.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

32. Or at least it used to be

[Codeine]

5. Not really my business, is it?

That said, I'm generally made uncomfortable by tribalism.

[miscsoc]

13. it's a nice variety of tribalism

if only muslims had the vote scotland would be independent already, since i think the snp gets about 60% of them. i'd imagine it's high among other minorities too

[JoDog]

6. To be honest

I don't know too much about the movement. Do you have any links or websites you could suggest?

On the face of it, I would say self-determination and independence tend to be good things, but I don't know much about the potential consequences.

[miscsoc]

11. well, the main scottish nationalist party is

the snp i.e. http://www.snp.org/home

our ideology is more or less to become more like sweden or something.

[monmouth]

7. I know that Ireland would like theirs....n/t

[ZeitgeistObserver]

8. Depends if they can make it economically.

They'd have a separate membership in the EU that way, and Ireland did well by it until the crash - but the crash happened to everybody.

[hedgehog]

10. I think we are witnessing the devolution of the European nation-state.

When people move freely to follow jobs throughout the EU, what's the point of a national government? Eventually , people will be Europeans first, then Welshmen or Basques or Tuscans or whatever, just as I am an American and Upstate New Yorker.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

21. Part of a greater whole.

They get to keep their own identity, but be part of a broader world as well.

[zipplewrath]

27. Yup. SNP seems to be effectively swimming up stream

More than one person has explained that much of the "steam" was taken out of the "irish independence movement" in Northern Ireland when EU "laws" basically gave them everything they really needed anyway. They ended up with the best of both worlds. Many could hold both British and Irish passports if they wished. Scotland trying to become anymore independent than they already are would seem counter productive.

[hedgehog]

30. I think ZeitgeistObserver has it right and captured my thought better than I did:

Everyone will be part of a culture group but also move freely with civil and economic rights. it is indeed the best of both worlds.

The real kicker is to see Europe come from dragging us into wars for centuries into this new relationship. If Europe can do it, why not the entire world?

[riderinthestorm]

55. I am Irish and I agree with this. While I see the Irishness as one part and treasure that,

I'd be an idiot not to value the ability to be an EU member (and work anywhere with the bennies).

[Captain Hilts]

12. Robert the Bruce is my kin, so I'll chime in...

I'm not sure how much is gained by this move. Scotland has a distinct identity that is not diminished by its ties to England that I'm aware of.

That's my general take. Sorry Bobbie Bruce!

[miscsoc]

15. i am a nationalist basically because scotland is more left wing

at the present time.

[Captain Hilts]

16. Yes, it is. I read The Scotsman every day and often Daily Record as well...

but those political trends change. You become independent you might get Gordon Brown as your PM and Susan Boyle as your queen, so, be careful.

[Speck Tater]

17. Fine with me as long as it doesn't interrupt my supply of Scotch Tape and Scotch whiskey. nt

[Captain Hilts]

20. Someone HAD to say it. Might as well be you. nt

[fishwax]

36. you still use cassettes?

[Speck Tater]

37. This kind :)

[fishwax]

39. the best of both worlds:

:)

[Tailormyst]

19. All for it !

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. I'm English; I'd rather it didn't happen, but it wouldn't be the end of the world

I appreciate having Scottish input into the decisions that Britain makes. If it were to make moving between Scotland and England any more difficult, either just for a weekend or permanently, then I'd be against it, but I presume it would be an open border.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

23. Meh. They should do whatever works best for them.

I got used to saying "Russia" instead of "Soviet Union" and "Serbia" instead of "Yugoslavia", I wouldn't mind saying "England" instead of "United Kingdom".

I don't claim to know enough to say whether this is a good idea or not.

[KamaAina]

38. As you will be anyway

during the upcoming World Cup. Scotland has had its own national football association for decades.

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. And because the Scottish FA won't play ball (literally), England will represent UK in the Olympics

The UK hasn't fielded a football team in the Olympics since 1972, since the Scottish (and, to a lesser extent, Welsh and Northern Irish) associations fear they'll be made to permanently join with the English FA if they ever do anything with them. And that worried people that there'd be no home team for the 2012 Olympics.

Nations pave way for 2012 GB team

A joint letter has been sent to Fifa, which has yet to ratify the proposal, saying that Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales would have no involvement.

But it goes on to say they would not prevent England from fielding a team.
...
And last-ditch talks between the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish FAs this week has finally led to a breakthrough in the long-running saga.

A document has been prepared by the SFA and sent to the other bodies, which, if followed through, would pave the way for England - rebadged as GB in both the men's and women's competitions - to represent Great Britain on a one-off basis

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic_games/8072981.stm

It's a bit tough on any aspiring young Scottish footballer that their association has prevented them from competing in the Olympics, just because of the SFA's paranoia. But at least there will be home teams.

[caty]

25. Whatever the

majority wants is fine with me. Since I don't live there, I only hope that they are happy and prosperous with whatever decision they make.

[DevonRex]

26. The Scots should do whatever they want. If they want it then I'm for it. nt

[bikebloke]

31. I support the SNP.

When last in Scotland, biking the Highlands and fighting dragons, I went to hear Alex Salmond speak in Inverness. They're close to social democrats.

Though in recent genealogical research, my ancestor back in the 1600's may have been kicked out for not being the right religious flavour.

[KonaKane]

34. Aye! Alba Gu Brath.

Mom's side are Scots. I enthusiastically supported the birth of the Scottish Parliament in '97, and would moreso support a free and independent Scotland.

[wolfgangmo]

35. Given the kilt situation aren't the scots already independent ...

... of underwear.


Oh, ach, yah! (rimshot)

[scarletwoman]

42. If it's what the Scots want, then they should have it.

Having no dog in that particular fight, I don't figure my opinion holds any importance.

sw

[Atticus]

44. Aye! It should be so, howe'er, “The best laid schemes o' mice and men Gang aft a-gley; And leave us

naught but grief and pain For promised joy”.

For now, some haggis, tattis 'nd a wee dram'll do.

(Scotsman here)

[eShirl]

47. Why not?

Didn't you get the Stone of Scone back, finally? Or maybe it was, your scones are hard as stones... I don't remember.


American of partial Scottish descent by way of Nova Scotia here. :toast:

[SoCalDem]

50. If they want it, and can manage without UK support, why not?

I have always thought of them as on their own anyway:)

Looks like a gorgeous place:)

[PassingFair]

51. I'll let these guys say it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcWSpPkf78s

CAP IN HAND

I could tell the meaning of a word like serene
I got some 'O' Grades when I was sixteen
I can tell the difference between magarine and butter
I can say "Saskatchewan" without starting to stutter

But I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand
I could get a broken jaw from being in a fight
I know its evening when day turns to night
I can understand why Stranraer lie so lowly
They could save a lot of points by signing Hibs Goalie

But I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand

We fight - when they ask us
We boast - then we cower
We beg
For a piece of
Whats already ours

Once I thought I could make God a bribe
So I said I was in his lost tribe
Getting handouts can be so frustrating
"Get in line son, there's five million waiting"

I can't understand why you let someone else rule your land, cap in hand
I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand
I can't understand why you let someone else rule your land, cap in hand

[T_i_B]

53. It would be a really bad idea for Scotland.

[xchrom]

56. As a general rule - I belive

Nations - and Scotland is a nation - have
a right to self determination.