Did you watch the McVeigh Tapes on Monday? What were your impressions?

[Cant trust em]

I'm a little late as I recorded it on Monday and watched it last night.

I watched the two hour special and I all I could think of was that Timothy McVeigh was little more than a scared kid who was striking back at his old high school bullies. Watching the show, it seems like his political motivations are so scattered and incoherent that his actions aren't much more than trying to gain some kind of control over his own feelings of inadequacy. While his actions put him in a circle of importance, I don't think that his motivations make him anything interesting.

[Johonny]

1. the official thread was here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8179375

[Iggo]

2. I turned it off after about 45 minutes.

I found I just don't give a fuck what makes him tick.

He blew up all them people. That's who Tim McVeigh is.

[hlthe2b]

3. I think the more interesting part of the story is how the victims

have managed to get on with their lives. That is what is important and what I wish would be the focus. And, I include McVeigh's family, or at least his sister in that. She has had to bear that legacy as well.

[gateley]

9. A father of one of the victims, who was initially for the death penalty then

decided against it, said he felt for McVeigh's parents. That they can never take pride in any of the good things he did and accomplished when he was a kid, like other parents do. They can never share stories with other parents. The compassion that man exhibited was so touching.

But watching the show we learned that his childhood wasn't any great shakes at home, with his mother leaving and his grandfather essentially becoming the parent. I wonder if his grandfather is still alive.

[Iggo]

11. I did see that part.

It was a very interesting direction that I hadn't thought through before.

Hearing the father of one of the victims say that Timothy was, according to all reports, a really nice kid growing up. And then imagining the elder McVeigh's personal hell. That did give me a shudder.

[Oregone]

4. Did they put it on cable TV or something?

WTF? Im living in a hole in Canada

[Cant trust em]

6. Yeah. There was a Rachel Maddow special. nt

[gateley]

7. Rachel did a special on MSNBC. I thought it was interesting and very well done.

The author who worked with McVeigh on his only authorized biography made the hours of tapes available to MSNBC. I'm guessing Rachel instigated this because she's been talking about domestic terrorists for a while. She's to be commended. Do you get MSNBC?

[Oregone]

10. I think I get it actually. I don't watch any cable news anymore. Just CBC

I can't handle to perpetual conflicts and boxing matches they attempt to make every news item into. I probably miss out on some stuff not in the papers. Who knows. Its like watching a train wreck, which I found fun for years, but I found an alternative I enjoy more.

[gateley]

20. You might watch Rachel (I gently suggest) - she, to me, covers the most

pertinent issues and presents them well. Or at least look at some of her videos people post here.

This was the first special she's done.

[Oregone]

22. Ill give it a browsing. Thanks for the rec

[gateley]

5. I missed the official thread because I had to tape it -- so what struck me the

most, I think, is that he sounded intelligent, was well spoken and obviously detail-oriented. The planning that went into making the bomb and implementing the action was an eye-opener. I always view "these types" as unintelligent mouth breathers who can't shoot straight, and thought McVeigh's "success" was probably a fluke. In other words, I underestimated him, and others like him.

It's so difficult to determine psychologically why someone does something -- but I think you may have a valid point in including the bullying. That scars a kid deeply. But the question then becomes, why did this victim of bullies act out and harm others and others didn't?

I didn't catch why/how the transformation occurred when, while in the service, he turned against the government. He loved being a serviceman, and had been recruited for special forces, right? The only thing I heard was that he said he became angry that the government was using the armed forces as pawns. So I missed a chunk, I think -- can you fill me in?

[grasswire]

13. Waco

He was angry over Waco.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. He was angry well before Waco or he would not have showed up there.

The culmination of Waco merely validated what he already believed.

[gateley]

18. I know I heard him say he began to hate the government while he was still

in the Army, so I wondered what triggered that -- a specific incident or just general fury at the government.

Limbaugh blamed Clinton -- did you hear that? -- because Waco was the reason McVeigh bombed, but I agree with you. He was angry and anti-gov way before that.

[onehandle]

8. It was clear that McVeigh blew up children for gun rights.

My conclusion is that McVeigh was not the screaming teabagger waving a misspelled sign...

He's the gunbagger standing quietly in the background openly carrying a sidearm.

You can't pigeonhole him as one of the uninformed racists in silly outfits.

He's not dumb. He's planning.

[kiranon]

17. Agree. He was a gunslinger against what he perceived as bullies who wouldn't

leave him alone. And, he didn't care who got hurt in the process of protecting his own ego.

[Enrique]

12. i thought it was a good re-telling of what happened

the actual McVeigh tapes weren't very interesting to me, but the show gave a good narrative of how the attack came about.

[Winterblues]

14. He developed a very deep seated hatred for Government and Authority

during his Gulf War experience. He realized that the government really did not care about anything and all the killing was for naught. He let this hatred simmer for a few years while watching things like Ruby Ridge and Waco and became convinced Government was just plain EVIL and it was his DUTY to fight back by all means available and he used his experience learned in the military for that goal.. War has a way of doing that to people..It warps people out...

[Tippy]

15. One thing....he wanted to get caught

Motive...he wanted to be noticed. He was a cold blooded serial killer who chose to kill as many as he could in one try..had he not been caught there woulde have been more deaths the second time around. He used Waco as an excuse.

[alphafemale]

23. Yep. Absolute sociopath.

I didn't watch the tapes this time around but I remember them from the first time. He was building an imaginary biography from cinders and ashes that even he didn't believe. But he knew the pathetic losers who would view him as a martyr "would" believe. And he wanted those people to emulate him.

[Nikki Stone1]

19. Maybe it was someone else's politics

I don't think he acted alone.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Well at least it taught to others that these thngs are very carefully planned

and that perfectly good kids can be turned into what we may think is evil.

Here is the point that she did not cover, but the tapes did. He did not see this as evil, but as a patriotic act. Realize this. Anybody who does this believes they are doing something good.

Oh and he wasn't crazy either. Though did exhibit some signs of anti social behavior... oh and again they did not go into this, but one reason why turned the way he did was Nicholl's influence and the Turner Diaries.

And yes I have met (as patients) people like him... and it is the strangest of experiences.

[alphafemale]

24. FOX news would have hired him by now. nt

[Swamp Rat]

25. exactly