Lack of regulation is the reason so many of us lost 401K and other savings.

[county worker]

Like a lot of people, I lost home equity, many people lost 401K value, great numbers of people are losing savings and everything else they own because of unemployment. All of this was caused by people on Wall Street gambling that it would happen and who did things to make it happen.

What makes me so mad right now is that so many who lost everything don't care anything about this financial reform legislation. Over the weekend I tried to have a discussion on this issue with some people at dinner. No one but me thought is was more important than Idol or Dancing with the Stars!

[onenote]

1. delete

[county worker]

2. I fixed it

[JuniperLea]

3. The "less government = less regulation" crowd are going to deny...

To the bitter end. It becomes a circular argument when you do get their attention. They can't get the meme out of their heads long enough to understand this basic fact... corruption happens, greed happens, stingy money grubbing happens when laws and regulations become lax. Also, our food and water becomes poisoned... the list grows the longer one ponders the ramifications.

The stock market is nothing but glorified, legal gambling.

[taught_me_patience]

4. It was one of many factors

Unsustainable housing bubble
Unsustainable credit exapansion
Lack of wage growth
Frothy stock markets
HELOC abuse

All the signs were there that we were in a bubble of epic proportions.

[Oregone]

5. 401K....just middle class money rich people get to play with

Yeah sure, great retirement scheme there.

[paulsby]

6. it's worked great for me and my friends

you can deny the power of the market to build wealth, but it;'s worked great for me, and my friends.

and we are solidly middle class (or at least employed as such) as cops and firefighters

best thing i ever did (financially) was start investing at age 21 EVERY month like clockwork

my grandfather, a self made man, who lived through the depression , taught me that

hth

[Oregone]

8. Yeah, I know, you are the 401K tycoon

You're like the happy guy who I rarely observe in Vegas strolling out of the casino screaming "Im rich beyatch!" among throngs of drunk or otherwise dissapointed losers.

Yes, 401Ks are working so well for the middle and lower classes, its no wonder their social mobility is where it is today. We have a whole generation of financially emancipated workers because they get to throw some of their scraps on the roulette table. Yep...is sure it keeping the disparity of wealth in check.

[Johonny]

10. are you against 401 Ks in general

or 401Ks that replaced pension funds. I know far to many people living off their 401Ks, pensions and SS to think a diversity of retirement options isn't a good thing. However trading off a pension for only a 401K is likely a bad deal.

[Oregone]

11. They have eliminated/replaced pensions from numerous lines of work

My generation rarely sees a job offering a pension anymore, besides public work. I'm not a big fan of the material effect they have had on the entire labor/retirement picture. They really do not empower the middle class with any opportunity at true substantial ownership of industry. I think people have been sold a bad bill of goods with the 401K movement, and the government is essentially incentizing middle class people to hand their money over to the market geniuses that keep creating messes, cycle after cycle.

[paulsby]

14. there has never been a greater wealth

creation mechanism than the stock markets

[Oregone]

15. For who?

Because, seemingly, it doesn't tend to be creating and distributing that wealth across all classes in a beneficial manner (otherwise, the disparity in wealth/income wouldn't be at record levels).



BTW, are you sure the stock market "creates" wealth? By what means? Isn't it rather that the market allows diverse ownership of the means of production, and thereby, creates a mechanism for *distributing* wealth? The wealth is created at the production level, not in the actual market.


I think you are seriously confused.

[paulsby]

16. for people who choose to be disciplined and participate in it

worked for my dad, my granddad, and i

the stock market creates wealth amongst particpants.

by participating in ownership (and to some extent - management) of companies, wealth is created

it's not as simple as saying it's created at the means of production. every stock share holder is an owner of the company.

[Oregone]

17. You are being so silly, and are creating a rule on ancedotal execeptions

"the stock market creates wealth amongst particpants."

HOW?

Where does this wealth come from? By what process is it "created"? Is it like magic? You just have to believe in it?


"by participating in ownership (and to some extent - management) of companies, wealth is created"

:rofl:

You honestly believe that owning something "creates" wealth? Seriously? Is that what you believe?

I own a dog....is my bank account getting bigger? Hilarious

[paulsby]

18. the stock market is not a zero sum game

i trade futures a lot. they are zero sum

in the aggregate, futures markets cannot create or destroy wealth - only distribute it

the stock market creates wealth amongst its participants because they are owners in companies that grow wealth

this isn't rocket science.

wealth is created all sorts of ways, increased efficiencies, better products, better distribution, etc.

[Oregone]

19. This is like watching the Ricky Gervais show

"the stock market creates wealth amongst its participants"

No. Please. You need to get off this kick.

The stock market *DISTRIBUTES* wealth to its participants.

By and large, its participants are very wealthy

[cbdo2007]

7. Most people have gained back their 401K values. Home values will come back also.

Though it is true that we do need more regulation.

[county worker]

9. Home values will not come back anytime soon.

I lost $100,000 in equity. Luckily I sold the house before it went under water. The current owners are under water. I want to buy another house. I no longer have a down payment. The houses that I am looking at went from over $500,000 value to $300,000 or less. That is why there are so many short sales going on.

[spanone]

12. one word....enron

[Odin2005]

13. You lost your savings because 401Ks were a Wall Street scam to begin with.

A way for Wall Street to steal your retirement money and to increase profits by cutting pensions.