Why don't us Dems have our own version of Frank Luntz?

[NNN0LHI]

I ask everyone I know who starts bitching about President Obama if they enjoyed their tax cut?

Invariably they ask what tax cut?

Then I say didn't you get a bigger refund this year than you got last year?

Then it never fails they say, "Now that you mention I thought I was going to owe this year like always, but instead I got back a nice healthy refund."

Why do people not know that President Obama and the Democratic Congress gave 95% of Americans a refund?

As a side note I posted this fact on a local Republican run newspapers comments section a few days ago and that was removed within minutes. Like they don't want anyone to know.

How many times you heard the word "Freedom", in the past week? No Republican comes on television without saying freedom at least a dozen times. The use of that word constantly is a Luntz creation and the GOP is sticking to their plan of BS perfectly.

We have truth on our side and can't get our message out there?

This needs to change or we will get screwed big time.

Don

[babylonsister]

1. Dems don't need a luntz; Dems have ideas they're trying to implement,

unlike rethugs. luntz's sole role is to help rethugs obstruct.

[NNN0LHI]

2. But if we implement something and don't get credit for it ...

... we won't be implementing things very much longer.

Don

[trumad]

3. Frank's messaging has lost them both sides of the House.

no thanks.

[NNN0LHI]

7. I am not suggesting we spread lies like the GOP

I am suggesting we spread truth.

Do you see the difference?

Don

[babylonsister]

5. A luntz won't fix what ails Dems; maybe a less complicit media would.

If they'd report on what's actually going on, we'd all be a lot better off.

[laughingliberal]

15. Wrong. Democrats have always had the best ideas and the facts on their side

But we fail miserably at messaging. A lot of this can be laid at the feet of the MSM. But not all of it. Witness Grayson. He get's it how to get the message out in a concise manner that appeals to people at an emotional level. The problems we've had is just assuming it's enough to have the facts on our side. This is why we've gotten our butts kicked in the national debate of ideas for 30 years and why the conservatives have succeeded in moving the country to the right.

[babylonsister]

18. Wrong. luntz is there solely to cover rethugs' asses without offering

any constructive ideas. We don't need a luntz for that.

[laughingliberal]

20. We need messaging that is effective

Not, specifically, Luntz. I don't know about you but I've watched the Republicans control the debate for most of 30 years now while our better ideas and facts got us nowhere. Democrats need to message better. Grayson has a knack for it. More Democrats need to take a page from his playbook and learn how it's done.

[babylonsister]

21. We primarily need a media that covers what's happening instead of

only concentrating on the most salacious and beating us over the head with it.

And I would agree, Dems need better framing and messaging, but without the media to report on it...there lies the problem.

[lxlxlxl]

4. because i would rather duck all of the marketing strategy and actually get ideas

marketing is about novelty, message multiplication, infrastructure and money...luntz is great for FOX and shitty for real people and reality.

look at how cheap the word freedom has become, as well as all of those other GOP Pavlovian calls...gubermint,


we did get obama elected by the way, although we couldnt beat bush

[HughMoran]

10. I have just designed the best product in it's category

I can guarantee you that I will sell not one of these products unless I can market it properly. Marketing doesn't have to be cheap and shallow like the Republicans, it's about getting equal time on the MSM to present our ideas.

[lxlxlxl]

11. politics and government isnt a product though...and again, we won last time

accepting that politics and government is more about marketing and less about philosophy/history/materialism is an expression of conservatism.

[laughingliberal]

22. We won the elections but we are having too much trouble getting support for our ideas out in the

public debate. If we could put our ideas out in a way that people connect with, we could ditch this watering down of our legislation to gain Republican cooperation and pass solid legislation sans loopholes.

[laughingliberal]

17. It's also about knowing how to sell the message in a way that appeals to feelings

The right has kicked our butts in this. Grayson is #1 in the party right now for knowing how to do this. It's great to have the facts on our side. It's imperative to be able to communicate them effectively. And getting face time for the message is a challenge. Grayson seems to do this well when he comes out with one of his zingers.

[HughMoran]

25. I agree

There are people who study how a given 'message' will appeal to the target audience. I know the political ads in the fall are produced with this in mind, but it wouldn't hurt to have some of this marketing used in-between cycles when the people get a little restless. Granted people do focus more during election season and the Dems have been getting better when it really counts. We definitely could use a few more Graysons :D!

[90-percent]

6. Dems

The bullshit is overwhelming the truth to the point that bullshit trumps facts!

But, a Lefty Frank Luntz is not what we need, for he deals in lies and propaganda and outright bullshit.

The side with truth on their side does not need somebody really good at broadcasting bullshit.

Additionally, I have posited here before that fifty years from now, Frank Luntz will be remembered in history in the same place as Stalin and Hitler and Osama Bin Laden for his global warming propaganda of the last fifteen years. Because in fifty years, global warming will cause more human misery than all of WW2!

-90% Jimmy

[HughMoran]

8. ...or conferences where we get some free air time while we discuss our ideas

I'm not sure all the marketing helps of hurts the Republicans (because they're insane), but they do get free airtime on the MSM - Dems need a decent marketing department.

[rurallib]

9. Luntz is nothing without the worthless media blaring his talking points 24X7

and not just FUX.
I wonder how many billions of dollars of free advertising Repugs get yearly from Clearchannel, Fux, ABC, NBC, AP etc.

[lxlxlxl]

16. yup! its 'media' vs. 'government' 75-85% of the time...its an easy job

if you can get it.

[OHdem10]

12. If our messaging worked, there would not be polls which indicate

very high numbers of Americans do no know they received a taxcut.

[ShortnFiery]

13. Because the ruling political elites don't want the democrats to be on the same footing as the GOP.

The GOP in control of at least 2 of our 3 branches of government is MUCH BETTER for business.

[Orsino]

14. A Frank Luntz is useless without corporate media to promote him. n/t

[scubadude]

19. Gee, I didn't get a refund this year and I was unemployed for most of it....

My wife however, was employed in a job that places us in the lower middle class. I can't give specifics but all of the folks at my wife's work had to pay too, and none of them earn big money. Everyone is complaining. I think that the way things are set up is that if you have children, especially in college, or have a mortgage, you are better off tax wise than those who don't. I can't see that my taxes have gone down. Maybe by taxes would have been more as an unemployed person last tax season than they were this tax season, but that is just a guess...

Scuba

[NNN0LHI]

24. Kind of hard to compare when your income has changed as you indicated

If you are curious about if your taxes went down take the same amount you made the year before when you were employed the entire year and then figure in the new tax cuts we got last year and run the numbers on Turbo tax and see what you come up with. I don't think they withhold from unemployment benefits so that alone will throw everything off.

That takes all the guess work out of it.

Don

[scubadude]

27. That is true Don, but that is a lot of work.

I'm sure it's true that the majority of Americans got tax breaks. We just don't have any write offs. No kids living at home, no mortgage, no college expenses... When I did have a job I had them take extra out to cover a potential tax bill. That is gone, like the job. Yet when all is said and done, we made way less than before and still owed. Way less....

Anecdotal info at best, yet every single person my wife has talked to at work owed taxes. Perhaps 10 people. It's curious. I wonder if all of them had no write offs either?

Scuba

[Captain Hilts]

23. Beats me. nt

[frazzled]

26. Because our intent is not to lie and deceive the public?

Just a guess.

[derby378]

28. We already HAVE one - his name is George Lakoff

He's only been talking about this for the past few years or so. But while Luntz concentrates on certain catchy phrases and the advertiser's motto of "Repetition, repetition, for God's sake, repetition," Lakoff takes a more intellectual approach towards framing the terms of the debate, not just the mere wordage.

I suggest you check out Don't Think of an Elephant! at your local bookstore.

[immoderate]

29. We need an obfuscator?

Luntz' job is to fabricate lies that will fool Republican followers. His lies don't work on us. Our job is truth and reality.

--imm