Chomsky on the danger of fascism in America

[eridani]

http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-opinion-section/72-politics/1489-chomsky-warns-of-risk-of-fascism-in-america

“The level of anger and fear is like nothing I can compare in my lifetime,” he said.

He cited a statistic from a recent poll showing that half the unaffiliated voters say the average tea party member is closer to them than anyone else.

“Ridiculing the tea party shenanigans is a serious error,” Chomsky said.

Their attitudes “are understandable,” he said. “For over 30 years, real incomes have stagnated or declined. This is in large part the consequence of the decision in the 1970s to financialize the economy.”

There is class resentment, he noted. “The bankers, who are primarily responsible for the crisis, are now reveling in record bonuses while official unemployment is around 10 percent and unemployment in the manufacturing sector is at Depression-era levels,” he said.

And Obama is linked to the bankers, Chomsky explained.

“The financial industry preferred Obama to McCain,” he said. “They expected to be rewarded and they were. Then Obama began to criticize greedy bankers and proposed measures to regulate them. And the punishment for this was very swift: They were going to shift their money to the Republicans. So Obama said bankers are “fine guys” and assured the business world: ‘I, like most of the American people, don't begrudge people success or wealth. That is part of the free-market system.’

People see that and are not happy about it.”

He said “the colossal toll of the institutional crimes of state capitalism” is what is fueling “the indignation and rage of those cast aside.”

“People want some answers,” Chomsky said. “They are hearing answers from only one place: Fox, talk radio, and Sarah Palin.”

[Ardent15]

1. K&R. The lack of a left wing outlet for their anger....

...leads people to turn to the right wing.

[DJ13]

2. Confucius says

Bird with two right wings flies in circles until it crashes.

[Confusious]

17. No I don't

It just crashes.

[sabrina 1]

28. Lol!

[bananas]

35. You're not Confucius

You're Confusious, with an "s", as in "confused".

[liberation]

80. ... and you must be a hit at parties.

[leeroysphitz]

73. WIN

[ShortnFiery]

39. WE need to DIRECT OUR ANGER away from the piss poor "teabaggers" and redirect to their OWNERS.

We all know that the teabaggers are not that "powerful and/or bright" ... however, the people who FIRE THEM UP are our true enemies.

We need to stop hyper-obsessing on the INDIVIDUAL nut cases and organize to counter THEIR LEADERS. :thumbsup:

[Echo In Light]

76. +1 ... too many dems want to continually focus on the division b/c it's fun to pick on slow targets

[defendandprotect]

101. Maybe we need some honest volunteers to find out what the "owners" are paying

to create the "T-baggers" --

Maybe it would be a good idea to join them and see where our ideas meet?

And where they don't -- ?

I don't think you can "counter leaders" who are anonymous as the right wing wealthy

usually are -- Dick Armey? Who does he really represent?

And, are these T-Baggers actually paying for luncheons at $500 a plate?

[defendandprotect]

100. Certainly liberal wealthy haven't been creating "T-bagger" astroturf groups . . .

If we're all sitting around waiting for Democrats to call us out to rally --

whether for MEDICARE FOR ALL -- or for ending the wars -- or regulating capitalism . ..

we're waiting in vain!

[Better Believe It]

112. When has the Democratic Party ever organized mass protest movements?

Well, it did defend the slaveholders, led the war against the union, fought radical Republican Reconstruction and led the Jim Crow segregation movement.

But, anything in the last half century or so?

[jbnow]

117. I assume you are kidding? About both paragraphs of your post.

Yes the party was called "Democrat" and yes a republican freed the slaves...
but hello.

Once Democrats became Democrats of today and old Democrats were republicans... gee, what organized protest did they lead? Must have been the Whigs having those huge protests against Vietnam.
And the huge protest movements against Iraq didn't get media play so we don't even have to count that.

That's all so obvious and that's why I assume what you wrote was snark, it just isn't always easy to tell

[Better Believe It]

153. You're not familiar with the history of the anti-Vietnam war movement and other movements.

The Democratic Party did not sponsor and organize any of the big anti-Vietnam war demonstrations in the 1960's and early 1970's.

Not a one.

Some individual Democratic politicians spoke at some of the demonstrations but none were sponsored or organized by the Democratic Party.

The main anti-war demonstration sponsors were broad-based anti-war coalitions that were independent of the major political parties and were opposed by both major parties.

The Democratic Party supported the escalation of the Vietnam war with general Republican support.

The war escalation was led by a Democratic President, Lyndon Johnson.

Only two Democratic Senators voted against the 1964 "Gulf of Tonkin" war resolution which paved the war for the massive escalation.

None of the huge anti-war demonstrations against Bush's invasion of Iraq were organized by the Democratic Party. Again, broad based anti-war coalitions organized and led those protests. Most Democrats in Congress voted in favor the invasion and continue to vote in favor of the war appropriations for both Iraq and Afghanistan.

If you carefully study the history of the labor, women's rights, gay rights and civil rights movements you will discover that none of these mass movements were organized by either the Democratic or Republican parties.

And it was their independence and ability to organize effect mass protests and actions that gave them real power.

[Uncle Joe]

154. No one knows that better than the corporate media, which is why they almost exclusively present

any consideration of an issue, candidate or movement from the right wing perspective.

People wonder why tea party protests are magnified by the corporate media?

It's because the corporate media believes in that adage of "You are what you think" and they damn sure don't want the American People to think about the public good or whether it's a good idea to have mega corporations to be dominating "We the peoples'" government.

Their goal is to misdirect the American People's legitimate anger away from the true villains and the very real national dysfunction of corporate person-hood.

The corporate media plays the American People like a matador to a bull, by just keeping the gullible or ignorant charging at the red flags while the corporate/oligarch sword is held in reserve for the kill.

[Xenotime]

168. Are you saying we should meet RW anger with out own level?

Who is leading that charge?

[amborin]

3. K&R

Chomsky has stated that the left needs to reach out to them.....there's a big vacuum now

[Kalun D]

9. A Vacuum

A vacuum that was created by the corporate media, funded by the bankers

a divide and conquer strategy

If you sat a tea partier and a DUer down and stripped away all the propaganda you would find many of their core values/hopes/aspirations/wants/needs/desires would be the same.

the REAL war is between the working class and the banking class, that's where the real screwing is going on. Seriously what has a tea partier ever done to a DUer? and what has a DUer ever done to a tea partier? Nothing. But what have the bankers done to the tea partiers and the DUers? Raped and pillaged and left them for dead.

that's why it kind of bothers me when I come on DU and all you see is "oh look at the tea partiers, look at the freepers, how stupid they are". They may be but they aren't the root of the problem, they are more of a distraction, a product of the corporate media. The real problem is that bankers boot heel stepping on us both.

[Truth2Tell]

16. Bingo! +1 nt

[ShortnFiery]

40. Well put + 1000. eom

[amborin]

18. yes, exactly!

agree, totally

as many have said on here, it's not left versus right any more (if it ever was); it's the working class against the ruling elite; you're right that the teabaggers are a distracting side show

[eridani]

24. The major difference between us and teabaggers IMO

--is that we are high information and they are low information.

[defendandprotect]

103. . . . but maybe the only way to get info to them is to joing them . . ???

I don't really know -- but mingling with them may create a better understanding

of facts -- if they have any?

[leveymg]

36. Look at the shit storm when Hamsher at FDL proposed to talk to the Right.

Most of the progressive media is averse to reaching out to the populists on the Right. Unless there's substantial support and leadership within the Progressive community for such a united front against corporatism, it isn't going to happen.

The "Divide and conquer" strategy doesn't work without the cooperation of the divided. Usually, it's made self-enforcing.

[ShortnFiery]

48. Too many of our "progressive/liberal" leaders are NOT on our side but are CLEARLY members of

The Big Club, the ruling elite. When it comes down to brass tacks, they don't GIVE A DAMN about the average wage earning American. They are so out of touch, they couldn't care if they wanted to.

[rudy23]

78. Jane touched a nerve by proposing bipartisan populism. That was the right answer-just.....

with the wrong person in Norquist, who isn't really a "populist."

But that's why you see her part of an orchestrated smear. It's not her pairing with Norquist, it's that she had the right antidote to corporate bipartisanship AGAINST the bottom 95% of us.

[HughBeaumont]

38. What has a tea-partier done to a DUer?

Er, howzabout "screwing this nation for decades thanks to their voting", for starters??

Curious, do you think the Tea Klux Klan are "independent" thinkers?

These people can bullshit all they please, they're REPUBLICANS who voted FOR REPUBLICAN politicians that did nothing but aid and abet the corptocracy's 45-year theft of this nation's wealth.

Is it any accident that (prior to Obama), in 45 years we've had one Democratic president and a moderate Republican who said he was a Democrat? Disaster Friedman economics got installed and nailed in, it had the support and ears of a neo-fascist brand of Republican party (which all the TeaBirthers, NOT ME, voted for happily) and soon had the ears and support of a disgusting breed of "Third Way" Democrats.

We're never . . . and you can take this to the bank . . . NEVER going to get a progressive president in office. It will never happen. And the reason it will never happen is because of people like the TeaBirthers. Unfortunately, their mindset is too ubiquitous to overcome. We're only hearing the vocal ones. There are many more like them that remain on the sidelines. 57 million McCain/Sarah votes prove that.

[ShortnFiery]

42. No, you focus on their leader and make them look inane, you can REACH the tea baggers.

Low information voters can be easily convinced. Especially when you thoughtfully make their LEADERS look WEAK and IDIOTIC. But we have to do it in a way where these inept leaders, TRASH THEMSELVES. When they are spiraling down, we must take care to see it "as tragic" and not "with glee."

THEN we can win them over to our side. :thumbsup:

[CLANG]

98. No way!

We'll never get these "people" onto our side. They are too completely brainwashed and scared shitless of us leftist communists for their minds to open up enough to let some sunshine in. I see no evidence otherwise, unless you can provide some.

[heliarc]

119. Food is the first thing... then morals...

The Lumpen prols we call tea partiers are in many cases hurting in this economy, or they've never been hurt before and blame the hungry and tired for their own misfortune.

but 1 in every 4 US home mortgages are underwater right now, and I'm guessing that the frustration those honest hardworking people out there feel is at odds with their sense that people's misfortune is their own fault.

The people being foreclosed on, and the people who have gone bankrupt because they got sick -- A lot of them are Republicans --a lot of them are tea partiers...

And if somehow this administration can show those people that the government is on their side, than we can turn a lot of people.

The trick is going to be to get Obama's hands out of the Financial Industry cookie jar. Cash for clunkers. There have to be more programs like that, that get money directly from the federal government into the hands of people who are hurting, and the face of that money needs to visibly come from the Left and from the Feds, against all of the bullshit from the MSM.


Food is the first thing morals follow on...
So first make sure that those
who now are starving
get proper helpings
when we all start carving.

-Brecht

[rhett o rick]

162. Yes the gullibles are easily lead. However, they will only follow bullies. Tough guys like Blanken

ship and Cheney. When you try to explain the truth to them, it hurts their little brains. They prefer acting on emotion.

[KansDem]

93. You have a point...

The whole "health-care debate" was drenched with lies advanced by the Tea Baggers. How long did we hear about "Obama's death panels" before it was debunked (if ever completely), and how long did we hear that "the public option" means giving up your present health-care?

And how many Americans today still believe that Saddam had WMDs and/or he was behind the 9/11 attacks?

And how many Americans today still believe that GW Bush was a "great Presss... Pressssss... A great Presssssssss..." (sorry, I just can't type it!)

You can't reason with stupidity...

[SemiCharmedQuark]

41. Bullshit. Poll DU and see if most of them think Hispanics and African Americans are untrustworthy

lazy and stupid.

I'm not going to join hands with a bunch of assholes who think we're less-than-human just because it gives people the warm and fuzzies to pretend all working class people share a common goal.

[ShortnFiery]

44. Bull. The MAJORITY are just "joiners" - they want to BELONG but don't have a vested interest in

homophobia and/or racism. They're like a Junior High Clique. With respect, they are lonely and want to belong - sometimes no matter what it takes.


How many of us who when to rural schools in the Midwest kept our mouths SHUT when xenophobic slurs were made? Why? We would be completely ostracized. In my small town, during the 60s "the other" wasn't Blacks or Hispanics but the native Sioux Indians. The generalizations about these proud people made me sick. I couldn't wait to break free after I graduated from a class of 24 at the tender young age of 16. I've been back but only for brief visits. :thumbsdown:

We CAN reach many of these people. They can CHANGE and are not as invested with "the dark side" of bigotry as much as many of you think.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

45. No. This was a poll that was taken of people. Who were they trying to impress? The pollster?

[ShortnFiery]

49. Yeah. You give them "a home" and their Opinions/Values will change.

That's what happens with low information voters. They want to belong MORE than anything else.

We all KNOW these people ... they are NOT inherently EVIL.

[CLANG]

99. No, but they are inherently stupid.

[eridani]

53. +1000. Chomsky and Joe Bageant are in 100% agreement here

Bageant has more direct, on the ground experience, of course.

http://worldnewstrust.com/index.php?option=com_flexicontent&view=items&id=7474:taking-tea-with-the-lizards-joe-bageant

Between that entire sorry assemblage there was not enough combined brainpower to piss, much less ask: Who didn't abort the child? Just whom are we talking about here? And what in the name of heaven does abortion have to have to do with fixing the health care system for 300 million other Americans, at least three-quarters of whom are incapable of ever getting pregnant, either by virtue of age or their plumbing.

The implied villains were -- who else? -- those dirty liberal baby killers. Instantly, abortion rights had become the meeting's main theme. All it took was one well-inculcated hot button word -- abortion. My people, white working class Virginians, had responded right on cue. 
Few of them could be called political types by any stretch -- most of whom would normally have been home stuffing their pie holes and waiting for the winning lottery number on TV. However, they had shown up at the behest of local Republican businessmen, the Chamber of Commerce and fundamentalist pastors, who in turn were orchestrated by health care industry lobbyists and public relations firms. And so by golly, tonight America was gonna hear the genuine, bona fide, straight-from-the-horse's-mouth unadulterated opinion of the common man! Just as soon as they were all instructed as to that opinion.

Many attendees at Town Hall meetings are sufferers of the agitated inchoate anxiety and frustration of the working class. But as many more at the staged health care rallies, and now the staged "Tea Party" anti-tax rallies, are retired or just plain bored people to whom the free bus ride, or the cheap buffet dinner that often comes with the faux protests looks pretty good. Not to mention the spiffs, the free tote bag of goodies -- chocolates, coupons, a neat little pen light key ring. You can dig through this nickel-dime loot while the group's organizer gives you the "orientation" during the bus ride -- dividing up the planted questions among the alphas in the group, giving tips on how to short circuit the opposing side's speaking opportunities, booing on cue, and so on. And sometimes there is even a free trip to Washington D.C. later to do more of the same, if you show enough talent for the cameras. Boucher's attendees had little talent, and not even a gnat's ass worth of understanding of the issue. But they knew the Devil's mark, and the Devil's mark is abortion. So they responded for the cameras just as they have been conditioned to do.

I know a slew of these people all over the nation and I can tell you this: they honestly do not give a tinker's damn about abortion. They really don't. Not one in a hundred. You will never hear any of them mention the word abortion, except when their preachers and self-designated spokespersons or news reporters urge them to. Or when they are expected to offer some kind of political opinion, or show verbal credentials they are one of their crowd. The term abortion is tucked away somewhere in their heads in a file holding the vague lexicon of "stuff I understand that I should believe in." There it remains, a stale unexamined little brain fart until the appropriate hot button word is pressed, until summonsed up by those who instruct them directly or indirectly as to what they should believe. 
And then right on cue, like serially wired blasting caps they are detonated at the Town Hall meetings or Tea Party protests, setting off a chain blasts of "citizen anger."

[ipaint]

58. +1 Bageant has been writing on this for years. nt

[Odin2005]

68. I LOVE Joe Bageant!

:D

[BlancheSplanchnik]

67. I'm with you here, SnF. It would be good to put some focus on WHAT kind of VOICE

would speak to the teaparty crew, and HOW to get that to them.

One woman I know, who invited me to a tea party back in the fall, said I'm the only liberal she's ever met...and she can't figure it out. She likes me!

She only watches Fox "news", she's aware that we get different perspectives.

Somehow, mentioning that Faux doesn't do too well with facts doesn't phase them....it must be t he anger outlet and the group affiliation/sense of worth it gives t hem.

How could progressives get out a CONSISTENT, REPEATED message that answers their questions and fears with facts and meaningful action, without telling them they're idiots? That is the path that needs to be addressed.

[Bluenorthwest]

72. You join hands with people who openly say that my people

are 'cursed by God' and unworthy of the most basic human rights. So the righteous indignation looks very personalized and shallow to me. Obama employed on his campaign speakers famous for accusing GLBT people of 'trying to kill our children' as he declared war upon us, Obama himself says that God wants him to discriminate against millions of Americans, and he specifically claims that his sort of people are 'Sanctified by God' but we are not.
So. You are willing to stand hand in hand with those who say I am not really human, and who actually enforce that with actual laws that say we can be fired and evicted for living. Rick Warren. Tim Kaine says we should not even have civil unions, like Huckabee. McClurkin, Caldwell.
So sorry to pop your bubble, but your standing is no standing at all.
Obama surrogates have called gay people, in addition to child murderers, thieves, prostitutes, degenerates, addicts and satanists. So to me, they look exactly like the Baggers. Most of straight DU defended those verbal attacks against us. Defended the use of hate preachers speaking invective against minorities they don't like.
To me, the whole religious dogma based bigot set are right wing crazies, and that goes for the anti gay people as well as the racists. I do not see them as being two groups but one giant prejudice convention.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

108. Well, I voted for Obama if that is what you mean-in which case I suppose 99% of DU has no standing

I did not approve of McClurkin. I did not approve of Warren. I never attacked DUers who were rightfully outraged by both of those actions as well as the dragging of the feet and digging in the heels of the Obama administration on equal rights. I think Obama has done...less than nothing...on equal rights and I have said as much many times. I don't go to church so I have no idea why you bring that up.

I suppose we differ on your last statement. I do see gradations. For example, Hoover deported Mexican Americans (including my family) into Mexico during the Great Depression. FDR stopped the practice officially, but did nothing to enforce this so the practice continued as well as virulent discrimination against Mexican Americans. He went out of his way to appeal to southern racists by refusing to make lynching a federal crime. These actions were wrong and politically craven. I think he knew better and in a way that makes it worse than the average nutbag that really believed what they spewed. However, I do not equate these actions with those of a Klansman and I would vote for FDR if he were alive today.

Likewise, I do not believe that Obama actually believes that bullshit about marriage. I think he is using it as a political weapon. This is repellent and will be forever remembered in the same way we look back and see Lincoln proudly declare he doesn't believe in equality of races, FDR's actions, Nixon's bullshit middle strategy RE integration, etc.

So yes, you are absolutely correct, and I do thank you for pointing it out and making me think.

[laughingliberal]

92. I actually had occasion to talk to one last week

He does not seem to be a racist although I know a lot of them are. He was talking about spending and 'entitlements.' I politely explained that when they are talking about entitlements they mean SS and Medicare, not welfare. I also told him about the increased payroll taxes over the past 30 years which have meant people like us are paying for the tax cuts for the wealthy and the surplus that was created was supposed to be paid back when the boomers reached retirement. I explained that this current push to 'reform entitlements' is a scam to now steal the money they 'borrowed' from us all these years. As for tax cuts for the wealthy he had the standard line about how we shouldn't 'punish wealth.' I countered with the fact that the current system punishes work, that most of us pay this increased payroll tax on every penny we earn while a lot of 'wealth' goes untaxed. I went back and talked about historic tax rates.

When the subject turned to health care reform he talked about how 'market forces' should be allowed to work. I offered my opinion that this is a group of companies who have an anti-trust exemption. I also explained that had we not done this secret bailout of their industry market forces would have put them out of business within 10 years, that they are losing millions now due to increasing premiums beyond what people can pay and how they will be losing 11 million customers, on average, for the next 2 decades. Then I said, explain to me what you think the market forces would have done to that industry. He was surprised to say the least. I told him we were like poker players who folded with the high flush against a straight, that had the American people realized just what the future of our for profit health insurance companies really was going to be we would have demanded a lot more in the way of concessions from them.

Patience and careful explanation seemed to pay off. When I left he said he had some things to think about. I told him people on both sides are angry about the same things-the destruction of our working and middle classes and the government's complicity in the theft of our money by the banks and Wall Street. He agreed. Then I said we have different ideas about the solutions but most are unaware of the types of facts I had shared with him about what got us here.

I think I got him to thinking. Sure. A lot of them are racist lunatics. But not all of them. And some can be reached.

[Prism]

104. +1. People should print out this reply

And keep it handy for when they talk to conservatives and tea partiers. You've provided sound, succinct explanations of the core similarities that 95% of Americans share.

We need a lot more of this kind of dialogue than the lazy ridicule, worn stereotypes, and trite parody that seems to dominate so much of progressive discourse these days.

How are we supposed to improve this country if we're writing off tens of millions of people before we've even started talking?

[bvar22]

137. I talk to them everyday where I live.

I absolutely avoid the wedge issues and focus on the pocketbook.
I was successful at getting several to vote for Obama.
Unfortunately, I DID campaign on a "Public Option like Medicare" that everyone could buy.
The "like Medicare" was the MOST powerful element since everybody in this very depressed area has family members ON Medicare.
NOW, I'm having to backtrack.
(Thanks for the FAILURE, Democrats!)
.
.
The point is, if the Democratic Party does NOT quickly go to bat for the Middle/Working Class, and at least start sounding like the "old" Democratic Party, we don't have any REAL "Populist" issues with which to romance the TeaBaggers.


"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[laughingliberal]

141. 100% Correct

We have a little time here (very little) to trot out some populist policy. I think the centrist and center right agenda (which are basically the same agenda to me) benefit highly from the 'tea party' exposure. It has effectively silenced any voices from the left and manages to make center right policy look 'moderate.' With no voices on the left being heard offering solutions for the issues with which people are angry, it boils the debate down to a fight between far right and center right policy, neither of which have the real answers to the problems.

I, too, swayed a lot of people to vote for President Obama based on his health care reform plan specifically the value of a public option. It was popular with most people when they understood it. So, egg on my face, also.

[bvar22]

79. The "Vacuum" has been intensified by the "Centrist" Democratic Party Leadership

The "Vacuum" is much worse than it was in 2000.

[Individualist]

122. Absolutely!

The vacuum is now a chasm.

[Klukie]

97. exactly

[libertyvalence]

120. The main difference between a right winger and a lefty is the right is

invested in or owned by conservatism. This ideology is undemocratic and inhuman. Did I mention hypocritical, self destructive and cynical?
Teabaggers say that they are against bankers but when they and the bankers are marginalized by popular opinion, they will run to the bankers open arms because at bottom, their ''grassroots'' populism depends on financing. The teabaggers are not pissed about anyone that needs help, they want control so that things can be unfairly tilted in their favor. I have a big beef with them, theirt position is quite different than mine.
Enact public financing of elections, even if it is a shitty solution, and get the money out of politics. Get the merciless manipulation by corporatists out of politics and you can get it out of the culture. Politicians do not answer to constituents, regardless of party.
Our ''Liberal' president is financed by bankers, Wall street and lawyers. He has gone for support to establishment figures in and out of government to manage his administration. He has betrayed hope in favor of the establishment. Do you really think that progressives had no qualified people to run government?

[nannah]

161. so right but so difficult to put into play

at least for me, i work with several right wingers in a government agency. one has all the facts to support his position, the other has fox generated certainty and protective of her reality. your message is a reminder to me that it is helpful to find points of alignment with them because they share the economic stresses that affect most of us rather than the opulence that pleasures the few. they are a natural part of our coalition.

as someone who was an activist in the sixties i have long thought that the power of the coalitions that formed to protest the vietnam war taught the opposition that they needed to block coalitions from forming and growing. so they created seemingly uncrossable boundaries among people by promoting polarizing issues like abortion, gun control, taxation gay rights etc.; endlessly airing their controlled message control through their managed media outlets, creating a body of people who rely on them for their understanding of the world; to set the context of their reality.

my father, a fox watcher until his death two months ago, had great difficulty respecting my perspective on things even though he valued the way i lived my life. i would sit and listen to fox when i spent time with him and it was so frustrating to hear the distortion and out right lying that people absorb while sitting in their comfy chairs. but who said it has to be easy...

[Jackpine Radical]

170. There's this old thing in psychotherapy--victims identifying with the abuser.

I think that to large extent, the teabaggers and others fit this model. I see these cars covered with Marine stickers including one identifying the owner as the parent of a Marine, and I think how sad it is that some young person was brainwashed into volunteering as a sacrifice for the sake of the Empire and the parents respond with pride rather than with rage.

[SOS]

171. Yes, it is a corporate media Potemkin Village

Percent who agree with Tea Party: 18%
Percent who have a negative view of banks: 65%

The real anger is aimed at the crooks on Wall Street.

This astroturf Tea Party crap is an attempt to divert the anger away from Wall Street and onto Obama.
And despite the cable news propaganda, it's not working.

[Cleita]

4. K&R

[frazzled]

5. You know, Noam ... where were all these angry people for the last 15 years?

When Clinton repealed Glass-Steagall and Bob Rubin was giving away the store to Wall Street? And the eight years of the Bush administration, under which this recession and unemployment was architected? And all of a sudden, the guy who inherits the mess is the one who fed the bankers.

I'm a bit shocked about the simplistic explanation he supposedly gives: the bankers were going to shift their money to the Republicans, so he said "fine guys"? C'mon, that's fifth grade.

[Ardent15]

6. They were around, but the MSM didn't start covering them really..

...until Obama got into power, as the Right wishes to destroy Obama.

The Republicans saw an opportunity and leapt on this anger. The Democrats didn't.

[Zoeisright]

11. Exactly. This anger is misplaced.

The teabaggers are racists, pure and simple. Their 'anger' is manufactured and stirred up by the asshole repukes who set this mess in motion 30 years ago and brought it to fruition under Dim Son.

[jaysunb]

13. Bingo !

:thumbsup:

[amborin]

20. that's too simplistic

and too broad brush

they're not a monolithic group; and many of them have many of the same economic complaints as working class dems;

much of their anger is at the unequal payouts to banksters versus ordinary workers

[eridani]

27. When has right wing populism ever NOT been tainted with racism?

That does not invalidate populist complaints. If Dems don't start dishing out real populism, the right is going to make hay with their fake version.

[amborin]

19. disagree strongly;

people were too busy struggling to make a living to fully notice the machinations of repealing Glass-Steagall, etc.....

it's when the consequences of these earlier actions hit everyone that people took notice

so you can't really blame people for not protesting back them; indeed, many of the banksters' actions are intentionally secretive and duplicitous, even right now; it's not that easy for anyone to disentangle their shenanigans

Obama is not innocent here at all.

Obama pushed through much of the bankster bailouts when Bush essentially washed his hands in autumn of 2008.....and lets not forget the humungous bankster campaign contributions to Obama: more than to any other candidate

[bvar22]

83. Wait until the REALITY of Obama/Democrat's HCR hits them.

We ain't seen nothing yet.

The smartest thing the "Centrist" Democratic Party Leadership has done is to delay the implementation of the worst provisions in this bill until AFTER the 2012 elections.

[amborin]

90. exactly!

[eridani]

25. The problem with the guy who inherited the mess--

--is that he believes in the same financial policies as Clinton and Bush.

[ohheckyeah]

26. I agree.

I call bullshit on Chomsky. Where was all the anger when Bush was doing bailouts? Where was all the anger when Bush was giving tax cuts to the rich? The anger is over a black man and a Democrat being in the White House.

[CrunchMaster]

84. Trying to make peace with the Teabaggers is a waste of time.

They voted for Bush TWICE knowing he was a murdering asshole. The Teabaggers don't want the federal goverment to get fixed. They want to destroy it and that is the aim towards which they vote and are motivated.

Making amends with some reasonable Republicans I am in favor of. Making amends with "Teabaggers" is a waste of time. Most of these teabaggers are simply racists and chumps wishing to destroy the federal government. Democrats should shun them as the nuts they are. These Teabaggers would not even be a movement if it weren't for the fact that a weak Democratic party continues to oppose punishing all of those war criminals that the Teabagger types have kept in power so long. If Cheney, GHW Bush, Rumsfeld and the rest of those Iran-Contra associates had been stopped 30 years ago when they first started engaging in illegal activity the Teabaggers would not even have a voice. The reason Teabaggers are a voice is because of all of the criminals still embedded in the government and media that give them a voice. The Democrats have played a part in allowing this monster to be born.

[cui bono]

30. I somewhat agree, but the difference is the media has changed a lot.

Now you have so many wingers with radio shows, Faux News to begin the hate spewing and then the internet to help the haters to connect. They weren't angry before because no one told them to be angry. Unfortunately they don't check facts, they just believe what they're told.

But unless Obama is not as aware as he seems I think he has been told who really runs the show and he has - for whatever reason - decided he must go along with it. But I think that's a side note. I don't think that is what fueled the anger. That anger is based on all the lies and those people's racism, not actual facts.

[murdoch]

32. They were working at their jobs

Now they're unemployed and ticked off.

I am unhappy about the TARP giveaway and so are they.

[Mr Rabble]

69. You know, frazzled, Noam actually answered that already.

If you listen to/ read his older talks- from the mid-1990's, he absolutely address this exact same element.

In "Free Market Fantasies", a talk given in 1996, he specifically addressed the cause of the militia movement, and lamented that the left didnt reach out to these people, who had legitimate grievances, although their understanding of the root cause was clearly mis-placed.

Chomsky has had it right for more than 40 years if you care to read his articles, or listen to the things he has said.

[defendandprotect]

109. I've loved Chomsky and I've been dismayed by him . . . on this ...

he is avoiding the biggest issue in labeling this "fascism" -- i.e., these people have guns!

There're not coming out for discussion and debate and peaceful get-togethers.

They are the last resort of the right wing: VIOLENCE!!

When the right can't win by any other means, they turn to political violence.

This is just another group being used by the right wing elites for that end.


In "Free Market Fantasies", a talk given in 1996, he specifically addressed the cause of the militia movement, and lamented that the left didnt reach out to these people, who had legitimate grievances, although their understanding of the root cause was clearly mis-placed.


Maybe there are big differences between militia groups --

but for decades Morris Dees - Southern Poverty Law Group -- and Ellie Smeal/Feminist Majority --

were pointing to right wing violence moving these groups. They are sexist, racist, and homophobic

"Christians."

Ellie Smeal way back was saying that investigations of these groups link them to violence at

the abortion clinics. And they seemed to be financing these activities with robberies?

Anyone who comes out to support democracy with a gun is giving you a message that is quite counter

to democracy!

[Mr Rabble]

139. Actually no, he isnt.

It simply isnt part of what he is discussing.

Do you honestly believe he is somehow avoiding discussing right wing violence? If so, that would be counter to the last 40 years of his public writings.

[defendandprotect]

146. The biggest issues with the right wing is they are militarizing free speech . . .

which is an intimidation to any other participants --

I don't know that Chomsky has addressed right wing political violence --

very likely I missed it --

but JFK assassination and 9/11 are two examples of that --

I've loved Chomsky for a long time -- but, again, he can also dismay!




PS: And, btw, if we begin to co-mingle with them, shall the left also

bring guns?

[Mr Rabble]

157. I already pointed it out.

You even quoted me on this. Im not sure why you seem to be having a difficult time with this.

Go read a transcript of "Free Market Fantasies" where he discusses the militia movement. He specifically discusses right wing violence in the 1990's.

Seriously, this isnt hard to do.

[defendandprotect]

159. The "militia movement" isn't the JFK assassination . . .

it isn't 9/11 . . .

It isn't any of the other assassinations we've had --

It may be attacks on women's clinics -- it may be robberies for arms -- it may

be lots of things, but doubt the assassinations came from anywhere but upper echelons

of corrupted government/CIA/FBI.



PS: And additionally, an armed "T-bagger" movement is quite different from a militia.

Again, it is militarizing free speech -- on the spot!

[kentuck]

7. If the Tea Partiers would agree with the liberals that there is too much money...

in our election system. And the Supreme court rules that corporations can spend whatever they want on our elections. Do I need to repeat that? And the Supreme court rules that corporations can spend whatever they want on our elections. Can we not agree that that is not good??

[izquierdista]

10. They still haven't figured that out

Teabaggers take a LONG time to get trained. Sit them down in the morning and start with: shit :thumbsdown: -- shinola :thumbsup: and maybe if you keep that up 24/7 for a few weeks, you might get the percentage who can tell the difference into the double digits.

[defendandprotect]

147. Think whatever you got them to see re $$ in political system they would

counter balance vs abortion, female rights, atheism, "socialism" --

latte drinking-liberal, whatever . . .

These are people with violent aggression and they mean to express it in a violent

and aggressive way --

and where is the acknowledgment that this is intimidation of everyone else who has

something to say?

Spitting on our elected officials -- not an attempt to intimidate?

Of course it is!

[d_b]

8. k&r

[asdjrocky]

12. Now that Zinn is gone, only Amy and Noam are left to speak for us.

He's someone I've never caught in a lie.

[ShortnFiery]

51. It's truly up to us to support local leaders, and FREE ourselves from these chains.

Noam and Amy have already done their part.

May our Higher Power bless them! :grouphug:

[asdjrocky]

61. I hear ya.

Almost all my activism is on a local level now.

[defendandprotect]

148. Public Citizen is also fighting vs corporate $$/free speech . . .

and need some $$ help --

Good organization --

and things people can do thru them --

[OHdem10]

14. "They are hearing answers from only one place(I would say SIDE)

Fox, talk radio and Sarah Palin." He has this right.

[Bgno64]

116. But what are the answers they hear?

I'm sorry, Chomsky's wrong on this.

Do tell, does Sarah Palin stand for increased regulation of the banks? No - in fact, she and everyone else who is providing "answers" to the teabag right stand for less regulation, more predation. The health care debacle was a case in point - the teabag point of view was: Let them eat cake. Let those without health care suffer so I don't have to foot their bill.

The teabaggers cheer the very economic forces that rend them asunder. They think their standards of living would rise under conservative leadership - they really believe that. They'd simply lose ground faster.

[MilesColtrane]

124. Teabaggers, and sadly most of the rest of Americans, don't concern themselves with policy.

...except only in the broadest terms

They will look to the attractive candidate who delivers the best slogans, catchphrases, and homilies.

[Truth2Tell]

15. How can I not Rec this?

Good to see ya eridani! Hope yer well. :hi:

[cui bono]

31. Easy. Just don't click.

;)

[Peace_Sells]

21. Bullshit.

“The financial industry preferred Obama to McCain,” BULLSHIT. Where the hell did he come up with that? Obama preferred my ass. Is he trying to say McCain would have been better. BULLSHIT. The idea that the tea bagger's anger is somehow justified is insane. They are racists plain and simple. Its downright naive to think otherwise. Where the hell were they when bush was destroying the country? These are the same idiots who called liberals like me treasonous bastards. Its shocking to see so many apologists for them on a sit named DEMOCRATic underground.

[eridani]

33. Not according to WaPo

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/23/AR2010022305537.html

Obama had unusually strong backing from Wall Street for a Democratic presidential candidate. He raised more than $18 million from bank and brokerage employees, for example, compared with rival John McCain's $10 million. (Obama did not accept money from PACs.) Prominent among Obama's bundlers -- individuals who raised at least $50,000 -- were private equity executives and hedge fund titans, including billionaire Kenneth C. Griffin of Citadel Investment Group, who had previously backed Republicans.

But Obama soon encountered stiff opposition from the financial industry -- and some fellow Democrats -- over proposals to curb executive pay, tighten rules on financial derivatives and create an agency to protect consumers of mortgages, credit cards and other financial products. Financial executives have also bristled at the president's increasingly populist tone over the past year, including his quip in December that he did not run for office to help "fat-cat bankers on Wall Street."

[ShortnFiery]

46. They are SHEEP. Not unlike many here were lured into supporting the Iraq invasion.

I typed and typed about how we were being LIED to. I tried not to be arrogant but even touted my background in military intelligence. Literally begging people: "Do not believe this! Do not vote for War!"

I'm humbly begging you all now to PLEASE stop focusing your ire on "the herd" but go for "the leadership?"

Many of these people only want to BELONG to something larger than themselves. Let them begin to become part of OUR STRUGGLE?

[defendandprotect]

149. And look at how infrequently we see a discussion here at DU of these wars being financed ...

by Dems now -- 4 years!!

Everyday horrors being committed in our names!

Casualities aren't like VN, of course -- but building --

[EFerrari]

81. Who did Wall Street back in the election?

[flyarm]

22. Who is Behind the DCCC’s Phantom Hawaii Pollster?

http://elections.firedoglake.com/2010/04/12/who-is-behind-the-dcccs-phamtom-hawaii-polster/

Who is Behind the DCCC’s Phantom Hawaii Pollster?


By: Jane Hamsher Monday April 12,


snip;

He continues, “The DCCC is airing an ad in the race attacking Djou, but not taking sides between the Democrats.” Well, unless you count the leaking of phantom polls intended to damage Hanabusa constitutes “taking sides.”

The DCCC’s efforts to meddle in a race that Hanabusa was clearly winning is unique. Obama has historically taken a strong hand to urge challengers out of primary races against Democrats. He personally called Steve Israel and asked him not to challenge Kirsten Gillibrand for the New York Senate seat, and also helped in the effort to “clear the field” for Arlen Specter in Pennsylvania when Joe Sestak was asked to drop his primary challenge. So it’s extremely odd that he’s not intervening in the Hanbusa-Case matter to urge Case out, especially since Case’s entry into a three way race certainly risks throwing the seat to the Republican.

Ed Case is the cousin of Steve Case, the former CEO and Chairman of AOL who merged the company with Time Warner and stepped down in October of 2005. In 2006, he founded a holding company called Revolution LLC. The board of directors includes a who’s-who of “government insiders, venture capitalists, high-tech veterans” and “banished executives” including Franklin Raines, Ted Leonsis, Carlie Fiorina, Colin Powell and James L. Barksdale. (Raines made a soft landing at Revolution a week after he stepped down from the board of Fannie Mae, and went on to advise the Obama campaign on mortgage and policy matters.)

Revolution has invested in Gaiam, Zipcar, as well as Revolution Money, a competitor to PayPal. In 2007, Larry Summers served on the board of Revolution when they raised $50 million from Citi, Morgan Stanley and Deutche Bank to launch Revolution Money. Last year they announced they had raised another $42 million from Goldman Sachs, Citigroup and Morgan Stanley. In Nobember of last year, American Express announced they would buy Revolution Money for $300 million.

The White House has a very close relationship with major finance and tech companies, and Case seems to straddle both worlds. He’s been a big supporter of his cousin Ed, and he’s also a former classmate of Barack Obama at Punahou School in Hawaii (Case graduate in ‘76, Obama in ‘79). He’s a fierce Republican, however, so there’s no history of political loyalty, but Larry Summers’ presence on the Revolution board is probably more indicative of the dynamics at play.

[Nikki Stone1]

23. Chomsky says it like it is: simply and to the point.

K & R

[Skittles]

29. I am angry, very angry, but I refuse to be affiliated with the likes of teabaggers

[ShortnFiery]

56. Then prepare to lose: If we don't find a way to hang together, we'll all surely hang alone. eom

[Skittles]

143. I will not in any way align myself with fascists and bigots

that's like saying we need to hang together with the KKK

[cali]

34. Chomsky thinks the tea baggers are about incomes declining and fury at bankers?:

he really doesn't get that movement.

[eridani]

47. They are about little peoples' lives going to shit

And since they are mainly white, they don't think that sort of thing should happen to WHITE PEOPLE, goddam it!

[cali]

63. I find the phrase "little people" grotesque

and these folks are pro-corporate.

[ShortnFiery]

52. Yes he does: They are mostly people who adore LEADERS, they want to belong.

Let's entice them with basic Financial Justice issues and then hook them with THE SIMPLE TRUTHS?

[liberation]

82. Of course you would say that

so predictable. LOL

[izzybeans]

115. I believe he's making a structural argument.

White resentment has long been linked to the exploitation of working peoples. They are looking for a source to blame for their struggles and they don't have the knowledge to find the culprit, so they go with their deeply ingrained standby -racism.

Stagnant wages are blamed on class peers who have different skin tones as a consequence. Instead of pointing the finger at their boss, they turn on their coworker.

[HughBeaumont]

37. Usually I'm down with teh Chomsky, but he's kinda fulla shite on this one.

I have NOTHING . . . not ONE DAMNED THING . . . in common with a bunch of grizzled, batshit-insane, anti-gub'mint, living in their Reagan past, red-baiting racists who promote regressive and failed neo-con economic ideas.

These bunch of dicks were cheerleading "YEW ESS AY! FOUR MORE YEARS!" as their jobs were getting shipped overseas, their factories closed, their degrees of all kinds devalued and the risk and loss part of our vaunted service/finance economy shifted onto THEM while the wealth was privatized at the top. What, they think their cities, plants and malls being boarded up is a product of OBAMA?

This is a product of 45 years of not-so-obvious to blatant chicanery by the right-wing scumfucks that run this nation . . . aided and abetted by the economically right wing politicians that THEY elected . . . term after term after term.

Don't lump me in with reactionary non-thinking douchebag assholes who can't be bothered to get the fists out of their asses long enough to read a book or pay attention. These people aren't interested in finding out who REALLY caused this mess, they're looking for someone to hate, and it's usually the wrong person/entity.

[eridani]

50. According to Michael Moore, McVeigh's father was a union auto worker

And instead of sticking up for unions, the New Dems have collaborated with the reactionary Republicans all down the line. What Chomsky is saying is that the left has failed at fighting this trend, and he is right.

[HughBeaumont]

62. The "left" has failed because we have no POWER or CASH.

The rich people lurves their tax cuts that Republicans give them. That's why they side WITH Republicans, because they make rich people way, way, WAY richer and are really great at convincing the "lessers" that they will be rich someday if one works just hard enough and kisses the right ass enough.

Reagan and Regan defanged the unions and gave corporate America the keys to the kingdom in the 80s. The Jack Welches of the world started the trend of shipping jobs overseas and shifting the risk/loss onto us while privatizing and accumulating the wealth at the top. Every other corporation followed suit and it's been downhill ever since. They bought media companies by the ton in the 90s. Pentasewer gangsters worked hand in hand with Big Business to buy both parties off. The unfortunate result was a "Democratic" president signing and supporting "free trade" agreements that decimated environments and jobs.

The "left" never had a chance. Money is on the side of the far right. Money talks and bullshit rides the Challenger.

[eridani]

138. We may not have cash, but we have at least some people power

We have not effectively used it, though.

[ShortnFiery]

54. We have much more than our pride is willing to admit IN COMMON with the "flock" of tea baggers.

Many of these people are "joiners" and do not think *in depth* about these issues.

Stop letting the ruling political elites DIVIDE AND CONQUER the wage earning Americans.

IF we can separate the teabaggers from their INANE leaders, we can reach them and CHANGE their opinions.

It's not their bigotry that is FIRM but their desire "to belong" to a group. Let's convince them that they've selected the WRONG SIDE?

I refuse to believe that the average rank and file teabagger can't be reached.

if we focus on NEUTRALIZING their leaders instead of this PETTY laugh-tracks on individual members, many "independents" and former teabaggers will be looking for a place to call home. Let's make that home LABOR supportive democratic branch of the democratic party?

[HughBeaumont]

64. And how much longer is it going to take to "convince" them? Another 30 YEARS?

America will be a smoldering financial RUIN by then.

Don't you think we've TRIED?

They won't listen to reason. They don't believe in charts from the Economic Policy Institute telling them their wages have stagnated since Reagan got elected. They don't belive anything unless it comes from the gullet of Brian Kilmeade or Bill O'Reilly.

And NO, I'm not "looking for someone to hate"; that would be giving too much of myself to people who really aren't worth it. Personally, I could give two shits if these people want to display their ignorance, made-up facts, backwards logic and hate speech for the world to see. That's on them. What I'M saying is that quests like this are the equivalent of trying to reach thousands of pre-enlightened Derek Vinyards with peace and reason when, just like Derek, it will take a catastrophic and painful event or two in their own lives to bounce them out of their stupor. You may think that's extreme, but there it is.

What I'll do is humor you. I'll come to the next Tea Klux Klan gathering with blown-up charts from demos.org and extremeinequality.org illustrating how badly they've been screwn under Republican presidents. And I will NOT SAY ONE WORD. I pledge to just let them read and react. And then I'll record their reactions.

After all, I think it is feasible to convince people who hold up signs stating "You can't Strengthen the Weak by Weakening the Strong" or "Evil Insurance Companies Employ a Lot Of People" that they've been had and dead wrong all of their thinking lives.

Really.

[ShortnFiery]

87. Hey my extended family is filled with right wingers. Some of my cousins spew the rhetoric

but, deep down, they are NOT bigoted, not at all. Some have the souls of social workers. They just have been too isolated.

Some of my relatives don't realize it, but since they've been raised republican, they will not permit themselves to vote anything other than the party line.

MANY republicans would love to find "a better home" when it comes to FINANCIAL justice.

They can be turned but it takes patience on our part. We can do it one on one. Once the followers are cut from the herd, we can "work on them."

[CrunchMaster]

91. Right wingers and Teabaggers are not the same thing.

There are reasonable Republican right wingers out there who can be worked with. The Teabaggers on the otherhand are mostly a bunch of nuts.

[ShortnFiery]

107. OK, if these tea baggers are THAT crazy ... I concur with an earlier poster:

Let nature take it's course. :-)

[bullwinkle428]

128. You must admit there's a great deal of overlap in that Venn diagram, though!

[CrunchMaster]

89. Amen to that. You don't reason with nuts.

They just want to destroy the Federal government and blame Democrats for everything. If Democrats want to reach out to some on the right then reach out to moderate Republicans. To hell with the Teabaggers. You can't reason with people that have gone mad. And a good number of these Teabaggers are basically nuts. You don't reason with nuts. You take their sharp objects away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UASS1qFAIQ8

[Odin2005]

70. Exactly! Good post.

[Raksha]

140. That's a big "IF" there!

Re "Stop letting the ruling political elites DIVIDE AND CONQUER the wage earning Americans.

IF we can separate the teabaggers from their INANE leaders, we can reach them and CHANGE their opinions."

The big question is HOW do we separate the teabaggers from their inane leaders? Obviously, the way to create a true populist party would be to show them how much they have in common with liberals who have likewise had their jobs outsourced, their homes foreclosed, etc. But they have ALREADY been programmed and conditioned not to believe a word a we say, because we're socialist commie fag-loving baby killers. We have no credibility because Faux Noise and the rest of the right-wing slime machine has been systematically destroying our credibility for about 30 years now.

It's bad enough that they don't have the rhetoric or the concepts of class warfare, but what makes the situation so hopeless is that they CAN'T learn it, because they would have to learn it from liberals. And they've been brainwashed into registering "commie" whenever anyone starts talking about class issues in any kind of meaningful way. Cognitive dissonance sets in immediately and they stick their fingers in their ears sayiing "La la la I can't hear you."

What to do about that?

[ShortnFiery]

55. With respect, you also seem to be looking for "someone to hate?"

My point is that, just perhaps, these people had "the wrong family or peer group" as they have gone through life. However, we're all part of the wage earning classes of working poor. If we can't find some way of "reaching out" we will continue to be financially raped by the ruling political class.

[MajorChode]

74. Exactly

Chomsky didn't even touch on the racist element of the teabaggers which is their primary driving force. Instead Chomsky tries to allege the teabaggers are a direct consequence of what he's been preaching for the last 50 years. What an asshole.

[ShortnFiery]

88. Oh come on? Many right wingers hated "Bubba" - Bill Clinton with every fiber of their beings. eom

[MajorChode]

114. Oh come on indeed...

So why does Chomsky allege the hate is much stronger now?

I could give a shit whether the hate actually is stronger now than before. That had nothing to do with my point. Chomsky obviously believes the hate is stronger now. The only question is the explanation. Chomsky would have you believe it's just the result of the roosters he constantly preaches about finally coming home to roost. I find that more than a bit arrogant, even for Chomsky. That's why he's an asshole.

Franky, I was giving Chomsky the benefit of the doubt as far as the hate level being stronger now. But let's go with your way and say it isn't. That means Chomsky's entire supposition is nothing more than strawman bullshit, and his presumption is even that much more assholery.

Take your pick. Either way he's an asshole. The only thing left to ponder is the degree.

[CanSocDem]

123. Duh....

"So why does Chomsky allege the hate is much stronger now?"

Well, for one thing, now, even so-called liberals call him an "asshole". The population is clearly becoming irrational.


.

[MajorChode]

126. Wow! So now if I don't pray to the Noam Chomsky God...

I'm a "so-called" liberal. That's what I love most about those who worship at the Chomsky altar. Anyone who dares question him is instantly labeled as a heretic with nothing approaching reason or logic needed. It's hard to find that sort of blind faith even in the most evangelical of churches.

If I'm a "so-called" liberal, at least I'm in good company, as quite a few writers and scholars who are unquestionably on the left have called bullshit on good ol' Noam too.

Cheers!

[mdmc]

43. Close your eyes can't happen here..

[harun]

57. K for Truth.

[Papa Boule]

59. All it will take is another big downturn in the economy

and an emergent leader with a charismatic personality to capitalize on the situation.

[MilesColtrane]

127. A terrorist attack would do it too.

A large enough attack would would probably precipitate another recession anyway.

That would just about create the perfect environment for the ascension of our AmeriFuhrer.

(And, you can bet your ass that Obama won't get the near universal high approval ratings like Bush did after 9/11.

No, if an attack happens on his watch he will be assigned the sole blame.)

[Mari333]

60. did the MSM cover the anti war march this spring? NO

did they cover the GLBT rights march? NO. Both wayyyy larger then the goddamned right wing astroturf stuff.
the MSM is center right. they want nothing to do with showing left wing anger. that would not be profitable to their policies which is to make money as corporations.

[graywarrior]

65. I am going to see him speak today at my school

[Echo In Light]

71. By all means, attend

k/r

[graywarrior]

75. His topic today: the emergence of the right-wing media

[ShortnFiery]

86. Oh you lucky devil!

I would love to attend one of his lectures. :-)

[Odin2005]

66. The Corporatists have hijacked people's grievances into support for Fascism.

Just like Germany in 1932.

A lot of these people ARE racist nuts, but I know several people who say they are "sympathetic to the Tea Party" that are well-meaning people mislead by FOX "News" garbage.

[srf Rantz]

121. Ding Ding Ding!!!

not only that, they have also co-opted "our" message (that the corporate oligarchy/banksters are the real enemy) but they have turned the blame on us, i.e. Democrats, Liberals and Progressives and our "secret totalitarian socialist/communist/marxist/nazi" agenda. a truly amazing piece of work and horrifying in its successful results.

I sit here day after day utterly stunned at what I'm seeing and hearing.

making nice with tea partiers is not only not possible at this stage, getting them to be receptive to even consider any other explanation is far gone down the tubes.

our only hope is to get organized like we did in the 60s and make a louder noise with more people.

but I just don't see that happening. and I believe they did their homework too, to make sure it didn't and wouldn't happen this go round.

[Echo In Light]

77. Chomsky: A World Of Freedom And Justice (video lecture)

Havens Center, Orpheum Theater, Madison - Thursday, April 8, 2010

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25209.htm

[ShortnFiery]

85. Thanks for the site reference.

Cool! ;) :hi:

BTW for those who care, if you would like to listen to 24/7 audio of Noam, go to Planet Chompsky.

http://planetchomsky.com/

[Matariki]

94. Project: Infiltrate Teaparty?

Don't know if I could stomach that.

[krabigirl]

96. why not?

[ShortnFiery]

106. Hell, I find myself in the middle of a tea party every time I have attended a family reunion over

the past 30 years. Some of my relatives were asked to join The Birch Society, but none of them have been that bat shit crazy or have admitted it.

How do I get through? Fantasy and sarcasm.

If we could peel-off some of the lesser indoctrinated ones, perhaps we could turn them toward the light? :shrug:

[ShortnFiery]

167. IMO, not smart. We need to organize counter-rallies. eom

[Xenotime]

169. Besides, I have better things to do with my time than fight those assholes.

[krabigirl]

95. He's right about everything except Palin. She's not as popular as they'd like you to think.

[CLANG]

102. Why make nice with the Tea baggers?

We've got them right where we want them. They are doing crazier things with every passing day, and the WILL BE associated with the republicans because the only politicians speaking at these rallies are REPUBLICAN!

I say just let nature take it's course, and let the independents run in fear toward the democrats in November.

[defendandprotect]

105. Just want to add here that anytime Americans come out "ARMED" ...we should pay attention!!!

[ShortnFiery]

110. No worries, some of us unabashed liberals are also armed to the teeth.

However, we paid heed to the Johnny Cash song and "don't take our guns to town." :evilgrin:

[defendandprotect]

111. Unfortunately, they do "take their guns to town ... hall meetings" -- !!

[ShortnFiery]

113. So what? They're holstered and/or secured.

Guns are all around us. When I drive I also assume that the other drivers are armed. It makes for more polite interactions. ;)

[defendandprotect]

145. Nice world you live in . . .

but notice that most of us don't go to democratic debates with our paranoia flags

flying and armed!

And, our legislators so far, have also managed not to shoot anyone spitting at them --

or each other on the floor of Congress!!

Maybe Leahy should have shot Cheney when he said "Go F--- yourself" . . . ??

When are you getting an armored tank --?

[ShortnFiery]

151. What? I own shotguns and rifles because they were willed to me from my father and

for the shooting range + home protection.

I'm far from paranoid. I trust in my instincts and always am aware of my surroundings. I've lived in some very dicey neighborhoods.

I live my life out in the open but I don't need to open carry. However, I'm NOT intimidated by those who do.

[defendandprotect]

156. Anyone who thinks that guns make for ...

"more polite interactions" between drivers is paranoid --

[ShortnFiery]

165. No, you misquoted me. I was partially tongue-in-cheek. Not unlike the Internet - HERE

people get a false sense of anonymity to the point that they feel free to be RUDE. Again, not unlike the glib and snarky behavior ummmm HERE!

If everyone WHILE DRIVING considered that we all were packing and have mounted grenade launchers next to our side mirrors, YEAH, people would THINK TWICE before cutting each other off.

The above is also wry dark humor ... just in case you mistakenly take it too seriously. :eyes:

[defendandprotect]

174. QUOTE: "It makes for more polite interactions" . . .

Guns are all around us. When I drive I also assume that the other drivers are armed.

It makes for more polite interactions.

I take gun-lovers on this website seriously --

just as I take the GOP/NRA seriously --

[heliarc]

118. Lumpen Proletariat.

They need a vanguard and it hasn't come from the left ... Fox is the only thing addressing their sentiment.

[MilesColtrane]

125. There seems to be no middle ground.

Democrats and the left believe that the proper government can solve many problems.

Teabaggers believe that government IS the problem.

Democrats and the left believe that properly regulated immigration is healthy for the country.

Teabaggers believe that immigrants are destroying the country.

Your average Teabagger is like a Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan love-child.

[Laughing Mirror]

129. Short and sweet

And he's right.

[bullwinkle428]

130. "Answers" from Fox, talk radio, and Sarah Palin? Sounds more like "rage" to me.

When has Palin proposed anything remotely resembling an "answer" to anything?

[troubledamerican]

150. When has the Democratic Party proposed any rage lately?

[SkyDaddy7]

131. I like Chomsky but...

The Tea Baggers are mad in most part because Obama is black! That can't be pushed aside regardless of who says it can including Chomsky himself. Chomsky is using the Tea Baggers to make a point and it kinda destroys it for me when he twist things.

[emulatorloo]

132. Agreed, Teabaggers don't like blacks, hispanics or gays. I am not "aligning" with that.

[OneBlueSky]

133. when you stop and think about it, Chomsky is probably right on this one . . .

“People want some answers,” Chomsky said. “They are hearing answers from only one place: Fox, talk radio, and Sarah Palin.”

he's right . . . people DO want change, and the only "answers" they're getting are from the lunatic right . . . every politician in the nation is scared to death of being called a liberal, a progressive, or a socialist -- all of which are one and the same to the teabaggers . . . (I still find that moniker hilarious, especially when I see a pickup truck with right-wing stickers on the bumpers and a brass "teabag" hanging from the trailer hitch) . . .

I think a well reasoned, articulate liberal/progressive/socialist platform would resonate with far more people that one might suspect . . . too bad there's no one in public life with a big enough teabag to propose one . . .

[RoccoR5955]

134. Chomsky is absofrigginlutely correct! n/t

[livingonearth]

135. The thing that bothers me about tea party people

is they parrot right wing radio and identify Liberals and Progressives as their main foes, complaining little of the big money corporations that run things behind the scenes. They don't understand how many social programs and regulations came to be because of problems caused by greedy corporations abusing Capitalism (note that I am not saying Capitalism is bad, rather that abuse of it is). Labor unions, anti-trust laws, environmental protections, minimum wage laws, regulations on business, all the things right wing radio complains about, would never have been needed if corporations had always been fair from the start. Tea baggers are being fed a revisionist history in which the Progressives and Liberals are, and have always been, trying to take away their freedoms and make them beholden to the state. They don't understand how policies of the New Deal, which provided for people's well being, kept fascism from taking root.

[sam sarrha]

136. bottom 80% americans hold only 7% of the nations Financial wealth... >>Link>>

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

this report should really start a good ole French Revolution.. but we have been secretly genetically re-engineered with Sheep DNA in our food..

[graywarrior]

142. This is exactly what he said when I saw him today.

[Jefferson23]

144. They do want some answers, yet, they seem to me to be convinced

of their beliefs. The group is fractured, the percentage of which are racists, embracing Confederate History month..no mention of slaves
thank you. A percentage are also anti-government, a percentage are Christian fundamentalists. I would agree with Chomsky that someone
within the Democratic party should talk to them, especially the Dems in red states, but talk about a hard sell..sheesh.


If the tea baggers were given printed information they could receive at home, and have them fact check it, MAYBE, you could
sway some of them.

[SHRED]

152. Tea Baggers blame those...

...in lower economic situations than themselves, for the most part. They think "lazy" people are the problem or it's "illegals" draining our schools and health care systems.
Much of that has to do with racist attitudes about what they call "welfare" and who they believe receives aid.

.Why did Chomsky leave these glaring facts out?

:shrug:

[HughBeaumont]

164. The "Have Too Littles", IOW.

In reality, the "Have Way Too Effing Muches" (and the corporations they run) are the biggest pigs at the tax-payer trough, FAR moreso than the public dole.

What the Bag-a-douches seem to also forget is that there are more white people on welfare than there are minority groups, just in case that hood isn't all that firmly hidden behind their backs.

[Uncle Joe]

155. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, eridani.

[Doctor_J]

158. So we should avoid fascism by reaching out to people who like living in a fascist state?

:shrug:

[Juche]

160. Chomsky is wrong

Yeah, he is progressive jesus and all, but he is wrong.

The tea party is about 10-15% of the public. They are about 90% republican or independent who lean republican. As far as unaffiliated voters, about 45% of the public don't know anything about the tea party. The tea party fundamentally does not care about income inequality, since they have been voting to make it worse for decades. They may have some resentment over it, but by and large their ideology puts them in the camp of more income inequality, not less.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/14/cnn-poll-1-in-10-say-theyre-tea-party-activists-2/?fbid=oiDJ2mqCfEV

One out of every ten people says they have donated money, attended a rally, or taken some other active step to support the Tea Party movement.

The poll indicates that 60 percent of this core group of Tea Party activists are male, six in ten are over the age of 50, two-thirds attended college, and half say they attend church services weekly or almost every week. By comparison, 48 percent of all Americans are male, 45 percent are age 50 or older, 54 percent attended college, and four in ten go to church every week or nearly every week.



http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/4/14/857381/-GOOD-NEWS:-America-Hates-Sarah-Palin-And-The-Tea-Baggers

The % of the public who strongly oppose the tea party has doubled from 11% to 21% from January to April. The % who strongly support has dropped from 15% to 12%. Support in general dropped from 35% to 27% while opposition went from 19% to 27%.


With recent news of bigoted statements being made towards congressmen, vandalism against political offices, endless whining and self absorption, horrific levels of mass ignorance and now threats of domestic terrorism and attempts to form militias, the tea party is going to keep losing popularity.

They now want to start militias in Oklahoma. So the tea party movement has been around for 15 months and already wants to move into McVeigh territory. What do you think that will do for their poll numbers?

The tea party is Sarah Palin pt. 2. They start off really popular, until the supplicating media love affair dies off and people realize what they really stand for. Then the public turn on them, leaving only the wingnuts. When the wingnuts drive them even further to the right, even more moderates are turned off. Palin, who was once an extremely popular public figure and who made the McCain ticket so popular it had the only chance it ever had of winning the election according to 538, is now (after 1.5 years) seen as the least respected and qualified candidate for president.





There is a risk that as more and more people become aware of how deeply entrenched the plutocracy is, and how neither party is truly willing to stand up to it, that people will support movements like the tea party. But for the most part the tea party is made up of geriatric republicans who are pissed that they lost the 2008 election. It is not made up of unaffiliated voters who are upset about income inequality. It is made up of people who have worked for years to elect politicians who tried to make inequality worse and who are pissed that they lost the last election.

I realize this is divide & conquer, and how it can be used for that. The ruling class screws everyone over, buys all the levers of power then divides people by class, race, politics, religion, sexuality, etc. to keep everyone at everyone elses throats while they rob the place. But for the most part the tea party is not unaffiliated people pissed over inequality. It is entitled republicans who are sore losers after the 2008 election.

[elocs]

163. How does it help Democrats to treat teabaggers lightly or as a joke?

There's already too much dancing on the Republicans' grave before the battle is even over or before they are even mortally wounded. You win by fighting the fight and not by taking your opponent lightly and there is far too much strutting going on already about how Republicans are finished.

Democrats had better be ready to take this one to the mattresses and fight the Chicago way that if they send one of ours to the hospital we send one of theirs to the morgue (figuratively speaking). If we want to play by Marquis of Queensberry rules we are going to have our asses handed to us. If we are not as fired up and as mad and motivated to support our cause as the teabaggers are to support theirs, then do we deserve to win?

Otherwise there will be a lot of Democrats and a lot of people here at DU who will be in for a very rude awakening and I would rather have the last laugh than to have to eat crow. This is way too important than to let the Republicans regain control and finish their rape of America.

[ShortnFiery]

166. Oh, I take them seriously as do many other here.

I fear far too many people are allowing themselves to "get off" on the less intelligent ones and ignoring the significant numbers who are both intelligent and antisocial.

It's the ones that remain low key but good organizers who I consider The #1 challenge to continued Democratic control of Congress.

[Echo In Light]

172. Expect continuation of all sorts of dirty tricks to help that effort along

[Doctor_J]

173. The choice is not between "treating them as a joke" and joining

I don't treat psychopathic killers as a joke, but I certainly won't become one. Come to think about it, that's about the same thing.