You think that the H1B visa phenomena is new?

[nadinbrzezinski]

You think that this nativist impulse vs the immigrant is new?

I must ask, since a lot of people realize that there is this newness to what is going on in the modern labor struggle. Well, as they say those who forget history...

Been readying Commons "Labor and Administration." Now this small book (it is close to 900 pages) was written in 1913 and here you have this crusty old guy speaking of the methods of management to keep cheap labor going. Now some of these things I already knew, others have somewhat surprised me, but overall they did that back then. They brought workers from abroad, or other areas of the country to break strikes. They used ethnic division to keep workers down and used all these out of area workers to keep any gains labor made down. (And no Commons did not go that far into the ethnic identity issue, I mean that is 1980s Social History work, but he hints at it)

SO here is the deal, we are seeing this happening all over again. And by us being all in twitter instead of finding ways to work AGAINST this process, we allow them to win again. I wonder if this is partly a problem of individuality and our inability to work IN A GROUP... no, not you, Americans in general. We are taught from early on how strong the INDIVIDUAL is... well strength is in numbers.

Now to the H1B visas, today it is people from India and other highly educated countries that will take LESS money for the same work. After all what they are paid is a LOT of money back home... back then it was polacks, Irish, Jews and Italians... see a pattern here?

Today they bring them to do the work of IT, among others, which is becoming almost a trade.

Back then they brought all these foreigners from European countries to do the work in the mines (Pennsylvania for example), and many a seamstress in New York and New Jersey, and yes they paid them less than Native Americans and worked both sides against each other.

So modern widgets are ones and zeroes, the problem is exactly the same, and the solution remains the same... but they have an advantage. The seamstress and the miner was and still is ... blue collar. Unions and blue collar go hand in hand. They are trusting that the modern IT worker (or others in the same "social class,") will look down at the practices of the blue collar worker and would never, ever think of a UNION. Well folks, time to rethink that theory, and realize that it is time that yes you too ahem, organize. And it is actually quite frustrating to read about how things were done back at the turn of the LAST century and realize we are back at that moment... and that includes all the dirty tricks that were used back then.

Oh yes what did Santayana write? Something about those who forget history are condemned to repeat it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I guess the usual crew does not like the message

:-)

Sorry, I have to laugh at this at times.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Oh what the hell? You'd think a PROGRESSIVE

board would be interested in this shit

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. DU burp

self delete

[NNN0LHI]

4. I have tried the union organizing here before

Doesn't seem like many people have the inclination to actually do something productive for themselves, their families, and their fellow workers like organize a union. Too much work or something?

Now start an online petition or some other meaningless crap and you will get a hundred Recs.

And the ones that are already unionized appear to have no interest in supporting any other unions besides their own. And then only when they come under attack. And then that must be President Obamas fault.

We are fucked nadin.

Don

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Well that is one of the questions I asked myself

and one of the answers is regarding statistics. We are all "middle class" and middle class people don't join unions. That's what working class people do.

In a nutshell that is one of the developing patters. At one time it was the frontier that was that safety valve to "class conflict," these days it is the house in the burbs and that fancy learning...

I think Texeira is onto something when he speaks of the rise of a new "middle class" away from the traditional values of labor.

And we are in for a lot of hurting...

That is why when people ask me, what are you middle class? I gently correct them. We are working class, degree or no degree and income or no income, and it will take a lot for people to learn this.

[NNN0LHI]

8. I think you found the answer in your original post

We have had the false benefits of individualism stressed to us so long many can no longer understand the benefits of belonging to a union. Many people have no concept that there is strength in numbers.

The brainwashing worked.

Don

[MerryBlooms]

5. Kicking

Our unions are fast on their way to extinction, and yet, the average citizen doesn't seem to give two shits about it, or thinks unions are bad for the country (thanks to M$M). There's been a ruthless and continual effort on the part of media and their masters (for years), to destroy unions and demonize their members. We need a HUGE flush of our media in this country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Actually they are growing, just not the kind you think off

the growth is in places like SEIU, which scares the right to no end. And many of those members are NOT american born either. That is also part of a historic pattern.

[MerryBlooms]

9. Yes, the SEIU is growing

and, yes, the right is scared to death and painting the SEIU as thugs, and the media plays it up. It's disgusting. I wish the average Jane/John, would think for a moment and do a little research before buying into all the anti union BS - but I guess people in hell want ice water ...

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. And this happens every time

wait for it, becuase they will soon call them commies and anarchists... sprinkled with Nazis.

Was readying the Congressional Quarterly (1947) yesterday and it was like... am I readying current papers?

[MerryBlooms]

13. Such a sad cycle and yet we

as a nation are always spouting the - 'Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.', and chastising other countries. Cripes, it's long past time we started following our own advice. What a bunch of hypocrites we are. :(

btw, I want to thank you for the earthquake operations/info. You always do an amazing job and I'm grateful for the updates and information you provide. You really do a stellar job and get *two thumbs up*, in my book.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Thanks

speaking of quakes, there was a story last week... and I had the chance to rub the face of a hard core righty on it today.

See we got good buildings in the US... he was gloating. He IS in the bidness you see, or rather retired from it.

So I asked him.. who set all those regulations since it wasn't the market place...

But, but...

No you know better, your business has been trying to cut corners when building structures. Well I guess the guv'ment you hate actually does something right. The damage in both Mexicali and Southern Cal was actually pretty minimal in a quake twice as strong as Haiti, and consistent with Northridge, and it was five times as strong.

Oh it was a thing of beauty... he actually shut up for a solid five minutes.

[UndertheOcean]

10. kick ! n/t

[ljm2002]

12. Thanks for this post...

...it's a great reminder that the current round of cheap immigrant labor and union-busting tactics is simply another round in the ongoing struggle.

Well people nowadays don't want to hear it. We're at the end of history. It's just dead people anyway. And unions? They really, really don't want to hear about unions.

There is enough new stuff going on, maybe it really is time to break the old molds. For example, with the international reach of the Internet making us more connected than before, maybe it is time for an international labor movement that has more ability to deal with these issues and look out for the workers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. You kow what is damn funny

you and I share that idea wiht Samuel Gompers, who wrote about the need for International Federations of Labor back in... the 1880s

[Greyhound]

14. As long as we're subjects of the Taft Hartley Act, we will always be pitted

against each other, to our detriment.

The only tool workers have is the ability to withhold their work.
:kick: & R

[NNN0LHI]

15. Most transplant auto plants(mostly located in Taft Hartley states) voted down union representation

Even with the ability to become unionized the majority of the workers at these plants figured it would be better for them to just continue scabbing off of other union workers. The UAW asked them to become fellow union brothers and sisters and they declined. Even though they had the chance. They still said no. They weren't interested in a level playing field for all workers. They had theirs.

Its not just the Taft Hartley Act fucking things up for everybody.

Don

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Remember there was quite a bit of very ilegal

wink, wink, nod, nod, intimidation going on as well.

[NNN0LHI]

20. Goons were murdering the UAW organizers when they started out

The illegal intimidation sounds kind of minor in comparison.

Don

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. There you go...

and although this is ahem ilegal, murder, intimidation and all that... it happens.

May I point to a certain mine and a certain owner of Massey Energy? That is the general attitude and when you own politicos who agree with you...

And let me see when exactly did we have this happen in the past?

Oh yes, the Gilded Age and the Pinkertons.

By the way, just started doing the intro, all over again, after the original thesis died. But one reason I am doing this, and it is damn painful, is that perhaps if people learn history, perhaps they will be able to do something about it.

Do I expect them good ol' middle class (working class but that is another matter) boys and girls to read it? No, but perhaps somebody will and it will do some good.

This also means I need to stay away from the academese... (and believe me a few of those articles made my eyes glaze)

[NNN0LHI]

22. Do you think the bosses at the Honda and Toyota plants threatened to kill workers if they unionized?

Maybe they did? I hope they filed a complaint if they did.

Don

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. I would not be too shocked

and there is a reason why EFCA is like a poison pill. It could be the beginning of the end to Right to Work in its current form

[Greyhound]

25. You're right, it's not just Taft-Hartley, but when things do get bad enough

and people do begin to see that there is far more to gain working together, Taft-Hartley ensures that they still stand alone. Disruption of the system

It is an essential element to the whole Kleptocracy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. This precedes Taft Hartley by oh at least 120 years

It is part of the problem, but not the singular cause.

Trust me, working on this history of labor is making me see the patters that truly started with the early factories in New Jersey oh around the 1830s.

[Greyhound]

26. Yes I realize that as well (probably unnecessary but if you haven't,

look at the SCOTUS rulings from that era, that was the beginning of the end here).

:kick:

[Ozymanithrax]

24. Union demonization and individualism are two aspects of consumerism...

that have worked to create a country where unions are considered little more than Mafia organizaitons without the romance.