Bush: "Prayer has the power to change lives and to change the course of history"

[sabra]

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewFlash.asp?Page=/ThisHour/Archive/NTH20070503n.html

Prayer Has the Power to Change History, Says Bush

(CNSNews.com) - "Prayer has the power to change lives and to change the course of history," President Bush said Thursday in comments marking the National Day of Prayer. Speaking at the White House, he quoted America's first president, George Washington: "It's the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and to humbly implore his protection and favor." "For two centuries," Bush said, "Americans have answered this call to prayer. We're a prayerful nation. I believe that makes us a strong nation." The president said Americans pray "to give thanks for the blessings the Almighty has bestowed upon us," for the strength to follow God's will "and for forgiveness when we fail to do so," to acknowledge God's sovereignty, and "to offer petitions." "The greatest gift we can offer anyone is the gift of our prayers, because our prayers have power beyond our imagining," he said.

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. That's why I am praying for *'s impeachment and imprisonment....nt

[otohara]

29. Good Idea

Today I start praying hard

[shanti]

51. heh

:thumbsup:

[Annces]

Stand in Awe of God billboard

http://imgred.com/


Route 354, Virginia


http://www.billemory.com/blogger.html

[momster]

13. While Driving?

Accident waiting to happen....

[YOY]

14. There's Better

Usually written by fundies in some nasty attempt at being clever but really just showing that they think they are the official spokespeople of God. Really kinda blasphemous if you think about it, acting like they know what God is thinking.

[Annces]

23. Well I think the people who

go around talking about fearing God, or the same ones who are manipulated by the Republican party. A really sick alliance.

[bdamomma]

2. give me a break george huh? talking to his base again??

:puke:

[AndyA]

3. This is one time I hope the words Bush speaks are true.

I'm praying that his time remaining in office is very short, as will be the war in Iraq and the number of days before our troops return home.

I also pray that Bush, Cheney, and the rest of their clan pay for their actions against the American people. And I hope that happens soon as well. A photo of Bush and Cheney behind bars plastered on the front page of the nation's newspapers and on the Internets would be great as well.

[bdamomma]

7. Amen

[no_hypocrisy]

4. That's it! We're not praying enough to neutralize * and his policies

and to change the course of this country. And he can't object as we're using "prayer".

[crim son]

5. We know how well it worked for Terri Schiavo.

:eyes:

[shain from kane]

8. Here's a reference about the power of prayer on recovery of heart patients.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-03-30-prayer-study_x.htm

[crim son]

9. Thank you very much for the link.

I've heard prayer credited for miracles and lack of prayer blamed for disaster (my MIL says that priests abuse kids because the laity doesn't pray for them enough). I've never noticed it to make a difference one way or the other and it's a pleasure to read about a study confirming this.

[CreekDog]

39. Credit where credit is due

Prayer is the appeal --the appeal isn't the power or the miracle.

The miracle is that it is heard and sometimes is granted based on the decision of a sovereign God.

I know I'm being nitpicky, but Christian prayer should be distinguished from personal spiritual power, which in a Christian context uses the same terminology, but actually is a completely different religion.

[Betsy Ross]

6. When I light my sabbath candles

I pray for justice in America, peace in Iraq, and security for Israel and the Palestinians. Not doing too well am I?

[jobycom]

10. It wins Super Bowls, too. Well, except that people also pray for the losing team to win.

So since you've got people praying for all possible options, someone will be happy, someone will be sad.

And just for the theological sake of it all--if everyone is praying for different goals, and only one of those goals is met, doesn't that mean that God chooses based on factors other than prayer? And doesn't that mean that prayer doesn't have any power?

Not that I believe in God. I just like theological arguments.

[sarge43]

22. One answer is

prayers are always answered, just not the way we wanted. It's like the dog praying to catch the car. When he catches it, now what?

[jobycom]

24. Still means

prayer has no power to influence God. If God knows what the dog wants, and what the dog needs, and decides between the two on her own, then the dog's prayers are of no use, and no necessity.

[sarge43]

26. Well, it's one answer, not necessarily a good one.

I do know prayer may be a personal comfort for many; it's not a guide to good governance.

[jobycom]

27. Nah, it was a good answer.

It countered my first point, made me come up with a second one. Still works on a personal level to explain why an individual's prayers aren't answered as requested, it just doesn't stretch to cover global events where many are praying for opposite outcomes.

Even when I was a believer, I thought of prayer as a personal communication, not a global request line. "Yeah, hey, God, long time believer, first time caller. Could you play 'Die All You Non-White Oil-hogging Scumbags?' My buddies and I were planning a trip to Las Vegas, and we were hoping gas prices would go down by then. You know, slaughtering all of those Muslim dudes would really free up some gas money so I could pay a hooker when I got there. I mean, so I could tithe. How about it, God? I'll make it worth your while."

Never my idea of prayer, but it sure seems like Bush's.

[CreekDog]

40. Always answered: yes, no, and not now

When you pray, you are praying at a point in time, but in most religions, God created time itself and is not limited by it. That's where the "not now" comes in.

[Ino]

32. "If everyone is praying for different goals...

and only one of those goals is met, doesn't that mean that God chooses on factors other than prayer?"

Nope! It just means that the winning goal pray-ers prayed harder... or they were more pure... or more worthy...

:sarcasm:

[jobycom]

34. Hm.

I wonder if there is some objective way to measure the purity and sincerity of prayers to test that theory. I know! If the prayer is answered, we can conclude it was more pure, and then we can test to see if more pure prayers are answered more often than less pure prayers... :rofl:

[CreekDog]

41. Incompatible with a sovereign God to grant prayers based on sincerity

That would place the power of prayer in the supplicant rather than in God's grace to grant the prayer.

If the answer to prayer is based on how sincerely you pray or how hard you pray, you are attributing the success of a prayer to yourself and not on God.

[Ino]

43. Not if God is the ultimate Decider

It's up to Him to decide which prayer is more sincere or worthy. Plus there's God's Will that factors in, and He works in "mysterious ways" -- such that a prayer may be answered with the opposite effect of what's prayed for (i.e., a child dying because God wants the babe with Him).

But I think it does help if you pray loudly & publicly.

:sarcasm:

[jobycom]

47. That might work. That means there would be no objective standards

for purity and sincerity, only divine, possible malleable, opinions. In that case, my snarky scenario about judging purity and sincerity by whether God answered the prayers would have merit.

Is this a net sum thing, though, I wonder. If the most pure and the most insincere prayers are both for the same goal, do they cancel each other out? I'm still trying to figure out why God would let the Saints get beaten by the stinkin' Bears, for crying out loud!

[Ino]

48. Interesting question

"If the most pure and the most insincere prayers are both for the same goal, do they cancel each other out?"

That would mean God punishes the insincere prayer, rather than just ignoring it -- an added incentive to pray LOUDER in a larger forum!

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. prayerful

He's full of something, but I don't think they call it prayer.

[Jacobin]

12. After 200 years of a secular democracy we have a fucking soothsayer

for president.

And its pretty obvious how that's working out

[sarge43]

15. And your proof is ..... ?

Oh never mind

Lives and history are changed when people show up, jerk.

[Mark Twain Girl]

16. Reading this, I wish I could ask a question

"Do you believe god favors the United States and has a special relationship with it, yes or no?"

Because that's always the impression I get, that god is supposed to be on our side.

Or, "Do you believe god listened to the prayers of a Vietnamese farmer or an Iraqi grocer?"

Something like that. It's like prayer as nationalism.

[Perky]

21. Oh I completely agree

it is praying to th Civil God. Itg s civil religion. It use JudeoChristian vocabulary but has little to do with the practice of religion itself.

It is almsot as if we are praying to tghe Founding Fathers, as though they were saints.

[rasputin1952]

33. Welcome to DU Mark Twain Girl...

:hi:

As for an answer...I am not so arrogant as to say I understand the mind of God...but, I get the distinct impression that bush's "god" is little more than greed and death. If I were a gambling man, I'd put my money on satan having his ears on this guy...bush does for Christianity what Hitler did for "Socialism & Workers" in his own country...:scared:

[Suich]

64. Welcome to DU, Mark Twain Girl!!!

:bounce: :toast: :party:

[H2O Man]

17. Gandhi said

the same thing. Thus, it's not the message that is wrong. It's the messanger, who in this case needs to get on his knees and pray for forgiveness.

[spoony]

37. Best post of the thread. n/t

[RedCappedBandit]

18. lol.

[blogslut]

19. Oh yeah?

Prove it Mr. Pretzeldent. Name one instance when prayer was proven to have changed history.

[kestrel91316]

20. So I'll pray for an end to climate change while still driving my Hummer.

I'll pray for the poor while still working to eliminate welfare programs and food stamps.

I'll pray for the elderly and disabled while working to dismantle or privatize Social Security.

Works for me! Prayer is way cheaper and easier than ACTUALLY DOING ANYTHING.

[Beausoleil]

25. Prayer doesn't help

We still have an incompetent moran in the WH.

[Tesha]

28. Karla Fay Tucker really proved that, right? (NT)

[spanone]

30. If prayer had anything to do with putting junior in the WH, then I'm an atheist.

and if prayer has anything to do with him staying in office then I'm a double-atheist.

[DemGa]

31. This from a man who bombed a country on false intelligence?

I'm almost at a loss for words.

[genie_weenie]

35. I feel the last 100 years of The Chicago Cubs disprove prayer OR

the New York Yankees prove Satan.

[Sequoia]

36. who the hell wrote that crap.

Sounds like a speech on the Mayflower.

[shain from kane]

45. We've come a long way since 1620, haven't we? Haven't we? (Sob.)

[Sequoia]

61. You've come a long way, baby!

bush+God=Water+oil

[CreekDog]

38. Theologically, this has problems re: Christianity

God has the power, a prayer is an appeal to that power, but God dictates how the power is used.

If you attribute the power to the prayer, then you have the power, almost discounting where the power really lies.

What Bush is saying is more typical of TV preachers who preach a personal power based on the faith that something will happen, that an individual has power to cause/create things by visioning them and believing that they will happen. Which actually puts these people closer to New Age religions than mainstream Christianity.

I'm not saying anyone has to believe this, just trying to point out that Bush doesn't seem to understand his own religion --which I've often thought time after time, but this is just another example.

[donco6]

50. This is the central idea in those "Left Behind" books.

The heroes (fundie Christian types) encounter evil in ever increasing forms, until finally they band together and pray a hole in the universe so God can get through and save the day.

Ugh. It's the most insipidly juvenile perception of God I've ever seen.

[CreekDog]

63. Thanks for post #50, so sensible!

[AnnieBW]

42. I'm Sure the Iraqis Pray Too

They're praying that they stay alive long enough to get out of the country.

[Arugula Latte]

44. Wrong again, prez'dint dumbass.

Studies have shown prayer does NOT change outcomes. The only thing it does is make the pray-er feel better.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. SHSSS here is the big fucking secret

God does not play in the human arean.

And if he does, he watches us run, jump and trip... repeat

[donco6]

49. No it doesn't.

You think there's any big loser out there who didn't pray his head off not to wind up as he did? How'd that work out?

[knight_of_the_star]

52. Ok here's my prayer

Hail Tyr God of Justice, He who gave His hand to chain down Fenris

Please let the firmness of Your Judgment fall upon these lawbreaks and oathbreakers who call themselves the leaders of this country and please let Your Fairness be the guiding principal that these outlaws receive punishment and judgment as fair and befitting to the crimes they have committed.

Hail Tyr!

[porphyrian]

53. Bullshit. If it worked, he'd already have turned inside-out with explosive diarrhea. - n/t

[Initech]

54. To use my new favorite Bible quote - "The dark one poses as creature of light".

Which only furthers my belief that George Bush is the child of Satan sent here to destroy the planet.

[Emit]

55. What is the National Day of Prayer? Who is behind the NDP Task Force?

From National Day of Prayer website:

Frequently Asked Questions

What is the National Day of Prayer?
The National Day of Prayer was established as an annual event in 1952 by a joint resolution of the United States Congress and signed into law by President Harry S. Truman. The observance of the National Day of Prayer is founded on the constitutional rights of freedom of speech and freedom of religion and can be celebrated by all Americans.

What is the NDP Task Force and what is its purpose?
The NDP Task Force concentrates on the need to pray for the well-being of America and for those in leadership on all levels of national, church and educational areas of influence. The National Day of Prayer is observed on the first Thursday of May each year.

When did the NDP begin?
Days of prayer have been called for since 1775, when the Continental Congress designated a time for prayer in forming a new nation. In 1863, Abraham Lincoln called for such a day. Officially, the NDP was established as an annual event by an act of Congress in 1952 and was signed into law by President Truman. President Reagan amended the law in 1988, designating the first Thursday of May each year as the NDP.

Is the NDP exclusively a Christian event?
No. This government-proclaimed day is offered to all Americans, regardless of religion, to celebrate their faith through prayer. However, the efforts of the NDP Task Force are executed specifically in accordance with its Judeo-Christian beliefs.

Is the NDP a political event?
No. The National Day of Prayer, as designated by our government, belongs to all Americans. It is not sponsored or owned by any one group. Every American can observe the NDP in his or her own way. Each year, the President issues a proclamation in support of this significant day.

Who is behind the NDP Task Force?
The Chairman is Mrs. Shirley Dobson, who has held the position since 1991. Mrs. Dobson volunteers her time and does not receive a salary. The NDP Task Force consists of a full-time staff and a network of thousands of grassroots volunteers nationwide. Prior to Mrs. Dobson's involvement, the Task Force was led by Mrs. Vonette Bright, wife of former Campus Crusade for Christ president and founder Bill Bright.

Is the Task Force affiliated with Focus on the Family?
No. Though Mrs. Dobson is married to Focus on the Family board chairman and founder Dr. James Dobson, the NDP Task Force is a separate organization. It is housed in the Focus on the Family headquarters for convenience, so long as Mrs. Dobson remains the Chairman. Its business affairs are separate and Focus on the Family is compensated for services rendered. However, between 1990 and 1993, Focus on the Family did provide grants in support of the NDP Task Force. Since then, the Task Force has been completely self-supported.

What kinds of events are planned?
The most visible gathering has been held historically at our nation's Capitol in Washington, D.C. on the first Thursday of May. The executive, legislative and judicial branches of government are represented, as well as the military. In addition, Christian leaders address the current year's theme and other areas of interest (i.e. education, youth, families, etc.).

~snip~

http://www.ndptf.org/about/index_13.cfm

[Nikki Stone1]

56. 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that, with it, Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits "

:evilgrin:

[Javaman]

57. You mean the poor troops had the way to get home all this time

according to moron*?

all they have to do is click their heels together and say there is no place like home?

I completely and utter detest that thing that passes as a human*.

[A wise Man]

58. So far it hasn't work

trying to get rid his tired ass.

[Zhade]

59. I know that's a pleasing myth, but let's be honest - there's not one bit of evidence for that.

I think it encourages an easy out, and hinders humanity's ability to clean up its own messes.

[michael_1166]

60. Mr. Bush, if prayer would work...

you'd be dead by now: just think of the prayers of mothers whose children got maimed and killed in the wars you have started.

[WinkyDink]

62. Oh, man. He really DOESN'T know what our democracy means.