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Is Murder the New Torture?

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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 03:17 PM
Original message
Is Murder the New Torture?
I've been reading about the history of torture, including John T. Parry's new book "Understanding Torture: Law, Violence, and Political Identity." Parry gives a history of torture in Europe and the United States through the twentieth century, establishing its pervasiveness, and the repetitiveness of the excuses and legalistic machinations used to allow it. Parry sees torture as an absolutely normal activity in our society, but an activity that at least until now was always treated as an aberration, no matter how systemic. Parry even tries to suggest at times that torture is required, necessary, or "essential" for western democracies.

That torture has been pervasive I am persuaded of. That the bizarre torture memos crafted by John Yoo and Jay Bybee and their gang differ less than we might think from previous legal memos, laws, and treaties I accept to some extent. That the US prison and immigration systems fed into the new torture regime is beyond dispute. But Parry could have picked out many times and places to describe that did not use torture to the same extent. The racist and colonialist attitudes that Parry sees as a major support for torture are not constant. The fact that someone can make a twisted legalistic argument for torture does not make it legal beyond serious dispute. The new public acceptance and mainstreaming of torture in the United States has been a dramatic change, at least in awareness; and a dramatic change in a different direction, even as a reaction to this one, is possible.

As Parry notes, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights bans both torture and cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment. If we need to clarify that this ban allows no exceptions based on time or place or citizenship or any other factor, then let us clarify that and put it into our Constitution, our treaties, and our statutes, with a requirement to prosecute every act of conspiracy to engage in any such behavior. The world order will not collapse, at least not in a bad way.

But there is a more serious problem, I think. Namely, murder seems to be advancing in the U.S. toolkit as a replacement for torture. Both tools, murder and torture, produce exactly the same amount of useful intelligence. Both tools scare the hell out of people abroad and at home. Both tools serve to teach a domestic audience that certain types of people are not fully people and cannot be dealt with humanely. Both tools help to advance the further stripping away of civil liberties through fear and terror. The goals of torture that the CIA has advanced for decades of eliminating a person's entire consciousness and identity, the mission of placing barbarians completely under control of the empire, what accomplishes this better than murder?

Look at all the hassle our government has been through trying to legalize and justify torture, not to mention the kidnappings and imprisonments necessary to engage in torture. We've seen CIA agents indicted in Italy and prosecutions of high level Americans opened in Spain. Former officials are facing civil suits in the United States for damages. Who needs the headaches? The Director of National Intelligence legalized the assassination of Americans abroad, and by implication any non-Americans as well, by going to Congress in February and announcing that such crimes would henceforth be legal. Easy peasey. No fuss, no muss. And if you want some future al-Libi to tell you that some future Iraq has scary scary weapons, don't torture him; announce that he manages the stockpile and then put a bullet in his head.

President Obama has ordered the murder of American citizen Anwar al-Awlaki. Like the innocent but tortured Abu Zubayda (innocent at least of any of the crimes he was accused of), Awlaki is now the mastermind terrorist of the universe. And once he's dead, who's to say he wasn't? Who can demand a trail or access to documents? He'll be dead. See the beauty of it?

If the top mastermind is in Yemen, what the hell are we doing building a quagmire in Afghanistan? Don't ask. But notice this: we have dramatically increased the use of missile strikes to assassinate in Afghanistan and Pakistan. And we have increased the use of murderous night-time raids to such an extent that we now kill more civilians in that way than we do with drones. They're the "wrong people," or neighbors who came to help, or family members clinging to loved ones. Sometimes they're young students with their hands tied behind their backs. Accidents will happen. But no U.S. officials' future book tours are going to be interrupted by protesters, since there's no torture involved. Civilization is on the march!
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Guess so many of the RW pro-torture crowd have never read the
Geneva Convention or heard of the Nuremberg trials.

Most of my classmates growing up were given these things to read in class. Sometimes in history classes, sometimes in social or civic classes.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Don't worry. Hoh, like Yoo and Bybee before, has 'leagalized'
extra-judicial killings.:puke:
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's really the end of due process, isn't it? A path to summary executions in the streets for any
actions to be construed inappropriate by the ruling class.

At least, it's the camel's nose under the tent in this regard.



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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. These things always blow back. Always. n/t
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. Watching Keith Right Now And... Yeah... It Is...
:puke:
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. David this is well put, and the reason to end this stupidity.....
people are not fully people and cannot be dealt with humanely. Both tools help to advance the further stripping away of civil liberties through fear and terror.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. Meet The New Boss... Same As The Old Boss...
We're about to become the Neo-Republicans...

Pass the Tequila, please...

:evilfrown:
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yep, It Just Keeps Getting Totally WEIRD!! I Just Don't Know HOW To Feel
anymore! My gut says this is so wrong, Constitution et al, but then I will be called a "leftie something!" What is happening here? To OUR country? And my thoughts about this Administration are sinking day by day!!

Do tell, what am I missing?? Really, am I just a number, a non person? Sure, I'm no terrorist, but I feel AFRAID somehow!!

:nopity: :crazy:
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. murder
you are saying, unless i misread you, that partisan loyalty and presidentialism make you wonder how to feel about murder

THAT should make you understand with crystal clarity what to think about partisan loyalty and presidentialism
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. hold
the worm
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. Blair had no problem enabling the Church Massacre.
Edited on Wed Apr-07-10 09:18 PM by EFerrari
He's just putting his career experience to work.


Report: Intel Nominee Adm. Dennis Blair Knew of ’99 East Timor Church Killings Before Crucial Meeting

Today is the confirmation hearing for Admiral Dennis Blair as National Intelligence Director. We speak with investigative journalist Allan Nairn, who says he has new information that reveals that as commander of Pacific forces, Blair offered US aid to the general in charge of a massacre that took place in a Catholic Church in East Timor.


http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/22/report_intel_nominee_adm_dennis_blair

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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. With every week I think it can't get worse.
And then it does. I've given up on politicians. I think for things to change it will take an event of epic magnitude. Until then, it will always be, same boss, different letter after his name. I'm so disillusioned.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. and the media (& elsewhere) memo is: there are two sides, it is debatable
debate makes us free,

another fair and balanced discussion, bla, bla
I'm ashamed that people think there is a debate at all about murder or torture.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. If Hugo Chavez ordered a Venezuelan killed in this way
DU would have ten threads calling for his head.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-10 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. kick
It sure is looking that way.
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