I'm really struggling with this Wikileaks video... What do we tell our children!?

[Bonobo]

My soul is really in pain after watching the children of the slain Reuter's journalist and the original video.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x452475

Yes, I knew it was happening. But my god, to see it and to hear the cold ruthlessness and inhumanity of those pilots... and to know it is being played out over and over and over everyday. ;(

I have 3 kids. They are 6, 12 and 15. What/how do you tell your kids? My heart and my beliefs tell me that it is an act of incredible evil. I am also a believer that we are what we do. It is actions that define us, not the way we WISH we were or the way we THINK we are.
That equation, along with many others, leads me to some horrible conclusions about who and what America represents. Who and what we are.
I can hardly face it and as much as I already tell my children about the troubles of America, I have never ever told them that American PEOPLE are bad. But even here, on DU, I see people trying to rationalize this away. As if there is any way to possibly explain this great evil.
I am really having a hard time coming to terms with this and I am afraid to tell my children... and yet, I feel that it is right for them to know on some level. Still, I have told myself that THIS is one thing that I cannot/must not tell them. It seems too much, too horrible.

Everything I have ever taught them can only lead them to conclude that America is a country committing great evil. I am in turmoil and my soul is aching.
I have left America and I don't think I want to return. Perhaps that is why I am hurting so bad. I think a part of me still holds on and doesn't want to believe it. But it right there in front of me, in front of all of us.

And we can't blame Bush anymore even though it happened in '07 because I am fairly sure it is still happening. The drone attacks have increased.

So...what are you good moms and dads doing? Are your souls breaking for your kids? Are you feeling this bad too? I am alternating between fury and sadness.

[Smarmie Doofus]

1. My soul's breaking for Iraqi kids... not so much mine.

>>>>>And we can't blame Bush anymore even though it happened in '07 because I am fairly sure it is still happening. The drone attacks have increased.
So...what are you good moms and dads doing? Are your souls breaking for your kids? Are you feeling this bad too? I am alternating between fury and sadness.>>>>>>>>

Our kids are mostly ... almost completely.....oblivious. Kept that way by gov't secrecy, media collusion and the universal human tendency to rationalize unspeakable evil. ( No shortage of that on this board the last few days.)

That's about the best I can do at 6 am on a workday. Hope this helps.

[timtom]

2. As a veteran of Vietnam AND Berkeley in the 60's...

I have raised my children to question authority, think for themselves, and always fall on the side of compassion. They have all done that. And, they are all in their 20's.

I, too, truly weep for Iraqi's and Afghani's (children, women, and men). Cenk Uygur fed into the myth that we are at war when he said something like, "Hey. We gotta give them the fact that the untrained military don't really know who the bad guys are and who the good guys are." I know he probably doesn't realize his error, but the fact remains: we are the bad guys -- in both cases.

[Dappleganger]

8. You did well, we are trying to do the same.

I wish more parents were as purposeful in raising their children--this world would be a much better place! Our kids are 18, 16, 13 and 12--our greatest contribution to society, hopefully.

[happy_liberal]

11. +1000

we cannot hide the truth from them and we must prepare them for the future. The Military Industrial Complex has no intention of stopping.

[scheming daemons]

3. Here's what I tell my kids

This is why you avoid going to war except as a VERY VERY VERY last resort.

Bad stuff happens in war. Human beings placed in a war situation end up doing things they otherwise would not do.

Every war, and I mean EVERY war, has incidents like this. It is just that in most wars, we didn't have them on film.


War is hell. Avoid it at all costs. Vote for politicians that pledge to avoid war at all costs.


War has no upside. Only when imminent DIRECT threat to our people is present, should it even be considered.


We haven't had a war that met that criteria since World War II.

[icnorth]

4. Of all the things that encourage these atrocities to flourish in

our world I think Arundhati Roy said it best: "flags are bits of colored cloth that governments use first to shrink-wrap people’s minds & then as ceremonial shrouds to bury the dead." A real patriot defends his government when it is right and condemns it when wrong.

As parents we can shield our kids to some extent but as they grow they need to be aware of the ugly as well as the good. When you explain be particularly aware of their ages and sensitivities and present your opinions at their level. When our girls had graduated and throwing off the shackles of parental oversight I had a situation happen of which I didn't approve and I said to them. Your mother and I no longer make decisions for you and cannot stop you from making the wrong ones, but never forget we prepared you by giving you the tools to make the right ones.

Being a parent is difficult, but you are the greatest influence in their lives. Lead by your words and example and your reward will be much in evidence down the road. And remember, you are not alone.

[Bonobo]

5. Thank you. I will follow your good advice.

It is a hard thing and sometimes you have to teach things you don't want to...

[stray cat]

6. Children should know early that some people do bad things - and no group has only perfection

[Javaman]

7. meh, never mind.

I was going to post something insightful, but I found that it wasn't.

What do we tell our kids? The same thing the followers of stupid governments in the past told their children, "we fucked up". Owning up to something is the first step to recovery and change.

We swallow the hard pill and what ever repercussions that follow. That is what being an adult is all about. Sometimes teaching by negative example is the best.

[Xenotime]

9. You say, "..we can't blame Bush..." and I say.."Ah..yes we can." This is his mess.

[tekisui]

10. Not anymore. It is Obama's mess and our mess.

It is up to the Democratic leaders to end these wars and bring to justice those who have violated ROE.

[L0oniX]

15. We all pay taxes that go for the wars.

700+ billion for the Pentagon this year.

[Greyhound]

16. Had he stopped it you would have been right, but he adopted it and now we own it, again. n/t

[branders seine]

12. Have them watch some old World War II movies,

then tell them we became the Germans. Our style is just a little different.

Or better yet, tell them about Stalin's Russia. We're pretty much there now in "law," if not quite yet in practice.

[truebrit71]

13. You tell them that war is hell and should be avoided at all costs..

..

[L0oniX]

14. Tell your children to not join the military!

[Echo In Light]

18. +1000

[walldude]

17. The truth... well maybe not the 6 year old.

I feel you my friend. I have 3 boys 11 14 and 16. My middle son is autistic and a huge fan of all things military. He reads history books and plays lots of military video games. This was a tough decision and while I didn't show them the vid we talked about what was in it and what it meant. It was sad, the oldest knows the score, he's been following politics for years, but the other two kept asking me to tell them that those weren't Americans in that chopper, that this wasn't US doing this. Then we talked about the difference between video games and reality and I think they have a pretty good grasp of what happened. They all made me promise that if the draft were to ever come back that I would take them out of the country.

For the oldest and youngest it wasn't so bad but my autistic son I think is having trouble reconciling his enjoyment of war history and video games with the reality. I happen to have a scrapbook that I put together of all his grandfathers letters, and stories about his grandfather who died due to complications of a bullet wound he received after accidently parachuting behind enemy lines at Normandy. In his writings he states:
"I try to do it, but I can't. I look across the battlefield and I don't see "the enemy" I see me. A guy fighting for what he believes in. No matter how hard I try I cannot bring myself to hate the enemy, which makes my time here so much harder".

I gave my son the book, I showed him that letter and explained to him that that was what a real hero was. All I can do now is wait and see how he processes the information.

[gorfle]

19. You tell them that this is the harsh reality of war.

The video shows just how fucked up things get in war.

When you polish a sword often enough eventually you will cut yourself on it.

Our military is a highly polished sword. We train our soldiers to not just be willing to accept killing, but to feel duty-bound to kill and in fact eager and proud to do their duty.

This is the way of military training, and it has been for all of modern history, and probably before.

My heart and my beliefs tell me that it is an act of incredible evil.

I disagree. When you watch the video, it is clear that the soldiers involved believed that they were attacking an enemy. How can you fault them for their eagerness and pride in killing the people they believe to be the enemy as defined by their superiors?

Friendly fire happens. It is sad, but inevitable when the enemy is virtually indistinguishable from the civilian population.

I believe that America, and its army, wants to do the moral, right thing. Now I don't think we should be in Iraq or Afghanistan at all, as I believe this whole "nation building" effort is an exercise in futility. But this is the path our nation has taken, and I believe that most of our soldiers, including those in the video, are not out to commit atrocities against unarmed civilians and/or photographers.

The only thing I would fault the soldiers in the movie for is the fact that they are too eager to kill their enemy, and consequently they missed cues that might have told them that perhaps it was not an enemy they were attacking. But this is what they are trained to do. And in this kind of warfare, where civilians often turn out to be the ones planting bombs and killing your friends, it is easy to see how they can get worked up in their job.

But I don't think that there is anything from the video to indicate that this was an intentional murder of innocent people.

[Echo In Light]

20. Bull. Shit.

[gorfle]

25. Which part?

Which part is bull shit?

[Echo In Light]

26. Mine was too harsh a reply. Apologies - check your pm

[county worker]

22. "in fact eager and proud to do their duty"

That is not true for most troops. When you are sent to war for the first time you know nothing of killing. It is just a idea during your training. If you are in a kill or be killed situation you kill. No eagerness at all.

[gorfle]

24. Never been in, so I can't say for sure.

I've never been in the military, so I can't say for sure. But all of my impressions so far are that soldiers are ingrained with a sense of honor and duty that revolves around being a warrior, and, by extension, killing your enemies.

[Echo In Light]

23. Certainly not the first time journalists were targeted by US forces:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x452217

[PufPuf23]

27. Both wars are mostly the murder of innocent people and

our leaders knew that at the initiation and know it now except the inherently evil (lets kill Muslims for God) and the like).

[county worker]

21. The truth as you know it.

[Cleita]

28. Stop letting them play those shoot'em up video games or your kids

might grow up to be those pilots. There are plenty of challenging video games out there that aren't based on violence. You can be honest with them and tell them the reason you don't want them to play those other video games is because of this bloody incidence and you don't want them to become insensitive about life like them. When kids stop perceiving war as glamorous and instead absorb the reality of the horror, we may have peace on earth with their generation.