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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:07 AM
Original message
"The power of the President is greater than "the rule of law." (WTF?) WSJ
Edited on Wed May-02-07 11:15 AM by IChing
Glenn Greenwald
Wednesday May 2, 2007 10:32 EST

The Wall St. Journal online has today published a lengthy and truly
astonishing article by Harvard Government Professor Harvey Mansfield,
which expressly argues that the power of the President is greater than "the rule of law."


The article bears this headline: The Case for the Strong Executive --
Under some circumstances, the Rule of Law must yield to the need for Energy.
And it is the most explicit argument I have seen yet for vesting in the President
the power to override and ignore the rule of law in order to recieve the glories
of what Mansfield calls "one-man rule.">>>snip


But reading Mansfield has real value for understanding the dominant
right-wing movement in this country. Because he is an academic,
and a quite intelligent one, he makes intellectually honest arguments,
by which I mean that he does not disguise what he thinks in politically
palatable slogans, but instead really describes the actual premises on which
political beliefs are based.


And that is Mansfield's value; he is a clear and honest embodiment
of what the Bush movement is. In particular, he makes crystal clear that
the so-called devotion to a "strong executive" by the Bush administration
and the movement which supports it is nothing more than a belief that
the Leader has the power to disregard, violate, and remain above the rule of law.
And that is clear because Mansfied explicitly says that.
And that is not just Mansfield's idiosyncratic belief. He is simply stating
-- honestly and clearly -- the necessary premises of the model of
the Omnipotent Presidency which has taken root under the Bush presidency.


http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/05/02/mansfield/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the same vain...............................on the same day...........................................


Administration Pulls Back on Surveillance Agreement (Warrentless is OK)
Source: NY times

WASHINGTON, May 1 — Senior Bush administration officials told Congress on Tuesday that they could not pledge that the administration would continue to seek warrants from a secret court for a domestic wiretapping program, as it agreed to do in January.

Rather, they argued that the president had the constitutional authority to decide for himself whether to conduct surveillance without warrants.

As a result of the January agreement, the administration said that the National Security Agency’s domestic spying program has been brought under the legal structure laid out in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which requires court-approved warrants for the wiretapping of American citizens and others inside the United States.

But on Tuesday, the senior officials, including Michael McConnell, the new director of national intelligence, said they believed that the president still had the authority under Article II of the Constitution to once again order the N.S.A. to conduct surveillance inside the country without warrants.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2831368
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MOD Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. No different than
a president using executive orders to bypass the Congress, heck even Clinton did it.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Substantially different
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. This is quite different. This is a theory of governance, not an
instance of expediency. And every Executive Order (up until now) has had to comply with the Law. Bush no longer fills that constraint. Welcome to DU...
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MOD Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
29. Nothing in the constutution mentions
executive orders, so I would argue they are a theory of governance as well not just an expedience. Be that as it may, presidential use of exec orders has grown far beyond their original usage. And as for complying with the law, that is not true either, via EO 9066, FDR allowed the military to remove Japanese American citizens during WW2.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
44. For which FDR was subsequently condemned by everyone except
Michelle Malkin.

The fact he did it did not make it right, and it was judged, in less hysterical times, to be beyond the scope of his powers to authorize it. If nothing else, that establishes precedent that we CANNOT do it.

Just as, in years to come, *'s violation of Habeas will be ruled as outside his powers, so future presidents will not go down that road. I also expect, if our democracy survives, to see rulings that presidential orders and signing statements cannot violate the law.

The question is, will we survive?

Julius Caesar was assassinated in the forum of Rome to preserve the Republic. A generation later, that same senate honored Augustus as the first emperor of Rome.

A generation ago our senate removed Nixon from office for excercising the same sort of 'unitary executive' theory, that when the President does something it is, by definition, legal.

Now it is being argued that * has the rights that we forbade Nixon to have 35 years ago. This is more than a 'theory of government'. It is a slow motion coup.
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MOD Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #44
58. FDR's EO
was an example I was using to rebut Dhalgren's statement in post 8 that "And every Executive Order (up until now) has had to comply with the Law. Bush no longer fills that constraint." One only has to remember Paul Begala boasting in 1997 of this strategy with his now-famous line: "Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Kinda cool." to see the danger of EOs to this country. It is one thing for any pres to use EOs to order folks in the exec branch but another to use them to bypass congress to make law.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #58
66. The courts, at the time, upheld his order, so it was "legal" in that sense.
It was only later that it was deemed illegal and a stain upon our image.(An image so stained, now, as to be unrecognizable). You can't keep citing Democratic Presidents and Presidents during REAL wartime as examples of what the little dictator is doing now. Of course you can search out one or two instances where Executive Orders were later considered illegal, but once declared illegal, that illegality was not defended as the President's right. That is what I meant by theory of governance. Whereas many people have defended the use of exec. orders for administration purposes and for expedience in emergencies, it has not been viewed as an equal form of legislating against the Congress' actions.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Are you the designated Bush apologist today?
"Clinton did it"....the twisted rationale used to cover this administration's destruction of the Constitution.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. My my.
Your platform is obvious.
Answer this...how many executive orders did Clinton grant and how many has Bush granted?
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. you've been waiting 6 years for this?
A thumbs-up to dictatorship?
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. 20 posts in 6 years
Talk about a mole
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. makes me think they are burning them out a high rate
fucktards.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. Read BenEzra's latest in the GUNS forum, re: Gonzalez denying 2A
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
24. LOLOL! Thanks for illustrating that even *if* the media reported this, it wouldn't help....
... There's still an idiotic American public to be dealt with.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
49. Well, it's nice to know what the 28% is still up to.
Must be getting lonely, over there. :hi:
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
57. I thought everything Clinton did had the stench of Satan around it.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #57
67. Of course. But he's also the standard for acceptable behavior.
Life is easy when you can believe two contradictory things at the same time.
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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
82. With other presidents: rare circumstances. With Bush: the norm.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
84. No one has abused that they way this fucking asshole has
"Clinton did it too" is a right-wing talking point, by the way.
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. Riiiiiiight.
Can anyone imagine the backlash that would have ensued if this piece had been written during the Clinton years? Be careful what you wish for morans.

Jay
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. This is not democracy
as I grew up knowing it. This is a monarchy.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. That is exactly what they have been saying all the past six years

laws only apply to the non-elite.
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conspirator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
68. Its even worse: laws are designed to increase the gap between the elite and the rest
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
5. I am telling you guys, this criminal maniac is either going to retain
the presidency in '09 or he will hand-pick his successor. There may be some lame, tissue-thin attempt at legitimacy, but it will happen and then the ball will be in our court. This is some scary, scary stuff...
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. The Wall street Journal is sending a message out to
its readers and I agree it is alarming.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
37. The Wall Street Journal had NO BUSINESS publishing such a stupid piece of shit.
What in the hell is their MOTIVE for doing this? There is a mountain of information that is bubbling over concerning our government, yet the WSJ (now up for sale to Rupert Murdock) is publishing some apologetic nonsense that justifies turning our Democracy into a monarchy.

This just shows how fucking far our country has gone to the dark side in wiping the asses of the elite.

The want a fucking class war, they've got it.

:kick::kick::kick:
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. You're usually a lot sharper than this, Lao Tzu.
I really think Mansfield is sounding the alarm. I think he's totally outraged by the perspective that he's "promulgating" here.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Ohoh....I may have to retract this apologia for Mansfield.
I just saw a thread by Maddezmom that has some more information in it, and maybe Mansfield really is a royalist nutcase.

Sorry 'bout that, loudsue.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. you should follow the links in Greenwald's article about Mansfield
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/01/several-matters.html

Along those lines, this week’s Weekly Standard is publishing an extremely important essay by long-time social conservative hero Harvey Mansfield, a Professor of Government at Harvard. The article is entitled "The President and the Law" and sets forth with perfect clarity the view of Bush defenders -- as previously expressed by, among others, Dick Cheney – that as a result of the "war" we are fighting against terrorists, the President really is above the law; he is the law; and the Constitution gives him the right to ignore both Congress and the courts. Bush opponents must make clear to Americans that this is the theory on which the Bush Administration is based.



"That George Bush has the right to break the law is not a fringe crackpot theory. It lies at the heart of the Bush Administration’s conduct and is the only theory which can coherently explain its actions. This view is being expressly and unabashedly advocated in the most influential pro-Bush magazine. It is endorsed by public intellectuals like Mansfield, by highly influential federal judges like Richard Posner, and by former Attorney Generals like William Barr. Dick Cheney has made no bones about the fact that this is the Administration’s view, and of course, the Yoo Memorandum (with its quite explicit warning that neither Congress nor the judiciary "can place any limits on the President's determinations" relating to terrorism) long ago made clear that this "one-man rule" theory of Executive power lies at the heart of the Bush Administration."
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #43
61. Ooops! My bad...I didn't read the article before I jumped.
You're totally correct, Jackpine Rad!

:blush: :egg on face smilie: :crow-eating smilie:

:kick::kick::kick:
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #37
78. Because the WSJ's editorial policy is FASCIST
Always was, always will be.

Soon, if rupert gets to buy it, the news pages will be fascist too...
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. I am in agreement on that. I don't like thinking that way, but
Edited on Wed May-02-07 11:28 AM by MUAD_DIB
I do believe that AWOL wants to remain dictator.


Edited for spelliness...
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
80. I've long thought the same thing...* plans to be in power FOREVER.
Edited on Thu May-03-07 10:00 AM by TheGoldenRule
Decider = King George.

:scared:
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. Professor Harvey Mansfield is expressly forbidden by the Constitution
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Come on! Finish that thought!
:hi:
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I think that pretty much does finish it!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. No it isn't, asshole...we can impeach
that slurring little bastard if he gets too busy throwing his power around.

Nancy, you may have to eat those words.."Impeachment is off the table"
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
15. Show me a strong executive President and I'll respect him /her.
Bush ain't it, though.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. Rupert Murdoch is trying to buy the WSJ...Greenwald is pre-emtive sucking up
Jesus, what a douchebag.

.
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Did you read Greenwald's article?
He is not sucking up he is outraged.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. I didn't see any "sucking up" in that article, at all. He is highly alarmed
and is trying to get the word out that these fucks are not democrats or Constitutionalists and do not uphold the Law...
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. Um, huh?
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
31. huh, what? Reading comprehension a bit of a problem for you?
or did you forget the sarcasm thingie?
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #31
48. Well, there's got to be at least rude smarmy ass in every thread, right?
Yeah Clio, I have a 'reading comprehension' problem. :eyes:

Actually, what I had was a typing/brain fart problem...I meant to say Harvey Mansfield, not Greenwald. Please, oh please forgive me your eminence.

.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. yeah, I was the only one who called you out on that
Edited on Wed May-02-07 12:31 PM by Ms. Clio
so sorry.

I was surprised, that's all.

On edit: But thanks for your own name-calling, that was teh wicked kewl.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. You were the only one who was rude about it.
How long have I been posting here? I'm not expecting every DUer to "know" me, but I know we've been around together before. Did you honestly think that I switched parties or something since yesterday, or even this morning? The other three managed to point out my mistake without having to resort to "you have a reading comprehension problem," that's all I'm saying.

Peace.

.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. really, I didn't mean it to come off so badly
peace.
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orwell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. Actually...
...some conservative scholars argue that the natural conservative position would be to support monarchy over democracy, so this position doesn't surprise me at all.

The executive can assert whatever the hell he or she wants. It is up to the Congress to remove him or her from power if they feel he/she is guilty of high crimes against the Constitution. It is the Congress therefore which is empowered to be the voice of the people, the ultimate "decider" in a Constitutional Republic. But if Congress does not fulfill its Constitutional obligation, the Executive Branch can and will assert anything it damn well pleases, extra-constitutional or otherwise.

It is about time that some Cons called a spade a spade and just came out for a monarchy. This is the natural alignment for those who wish to stratify class and culture. Real democracies or democratic republics are far to messy and liberal for the likes of the Con-monarchists. They almost guarantee that the existing social order will be regularly challenged.

To put it simply Cons favor order over liberty. Nothing would ensure this better than unchallenged monarchy. It makes perfect sense to the authoritarian mindset. It's about time they just came out of the closet and admitted it.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
26. Just crown him King and bow down to him
Isn't that the News Media today
all about explaining how the King has the right to rule his subjects
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
28. Professor Mansfield would surely have reached the same conclusion had a Dem done what W has done
precisely and in totality. Nothing partisan here, move on. :evilgrin:
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #28
83. yeah
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
30. They did not say that, did they?
Omigod.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
32. How much money did Rove have to pay for this favor?
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firefox_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
33. Of course, this same guy would backtrack very fast
If the Omnipotent President decided out of the blue to revoke tenure from all tenured faculty in the US.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
34. Closet Monarchists
Edited on Wed May-02-07 11:50 AM by supernova
I've argued for six years that that this admin and their supporters aren't conservatives as we know them. They are, in fact, clost monarchists. Every time somebody pops up with this unitary executive model or "strong leader," they are in fact longing for Kingship (yes, capitol "K") , not a presidency.

This article by Mansfield, just gets it out in the open.

I echo Greenwald's Thomas Paine quote:

Let a day be solemnly set apart for proclaiming the charter; let it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the word of God; let a crown be placed thereon, by which the world may know , that in America, THE LAW IS KING. For as in absolute governments the king is law, so in free countries the law ought to be king; and there ought to be no other. (Common Sense, 98)

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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
35. and where do these people hide when democrats are in office???
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #35
60. Boardrooms. n/t
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #60
65. Quoted for truth -- boardrooms and think tanks. n/t
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
36. no wonder Murdoch has an itch to buy it (WSJ)
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G_Leo_Criley Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
38. Remember U.S. v. Nixon
In oral arguments:
"The President wants me to argue that he is as powerful a monarch as Louis XIV, only four years at a time, and is not subject to the processes of any court in the land except the court of impeachment." — James D. St. Clair, Richard Nixon's counsel, arguing before the Supreme Court

In the Nixon tape case, the entire court joined together (except for Rehnquist, who recused himself because of a prior legal relationship with one of the parties) to write a piece of the ruling which demanded release of the Nixon tapes.

This monarchy claim didn't work then and with luck it won't work now.

"Mr. St. Clair, what public interest is there in preserving secrecy with respect to a criminal conspiracy?" —Justice Lewis Powell during oral arguments.


These ultra-right wingers have more of a foothold now, but we are wiser now too. Hang tough. If they're putting this junk out there, they know that they are close to the end of their tyrannical reign.

So in that regard, there is hope. Keep your head up and your eyes open anyway. I believe that he will resign before "allowing himself" to be impeached, just as Nixon did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Nixon

glc
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
39. Harvey Mansfield (The Wall Street Journal): The Case for the Strong Executive
From The Wall Street Journal
Dated Wednesday, May 2


The Case for the Strong Executive
By Harvey Mansfield

Complaints against the "imperial presidency" are back in vogue. With a view to President Bush, the late Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr. expanded and reissued the book of the same name he wrote against Richard Nixon, and Bush critics have taken up the phrase in a chorus. In response John Yoo and Richard Posner (and others) have defended the war powers of the president.

This is not the first time that a strong executive has been attacked and defended, and it will not be the last. Our Constitution, as long as it continues, will suffer this debate--I would say, give rise to it, preside over and encourage it. Though I want to defend the strong executive, I mainly intend to step back from that defense to show why the debate between the strong executive and its adversary, the rule of law, is necessary, good and--under the Constitution--never-ending.

In other circumstances I could see myself defending the rule of law. Americans are fortunate to have a Constitution that accommodates different circumstances. Its flexibility keeps it in its original form and spirit a "living constitution," ready for change, and open to new necessities and opportunities. The "living constitution" conceived by the Progressives actually makes it a prisoner of ongoing events and perceived trends. To explain the constitutional debate between the strong executive and the rule of law I will concentrate on its sources in political philosophy and, for greater clarity, ignore the constitutional law emerging from it.

Read more at the link
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
40. A.K.A. "Martial Law" along with concentration camps now under control of ICE and not FEMA
Gotta go back underground !
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
41. "dominant right-wing movement"
Who controls Congress right now?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #41
70. With impeachment being preemptively taken off the table
I kind of wonder.
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
42. sounds like he wants a king or emperor.
or dictatorship
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G_Leo_Criley Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #42
54. uno solo
Edited on Wed May-02-07 12:43 PM by G_Leo_Criley
Yes -- Mansfield's WSJ article is subtitled: Under some circumstances, the rule of law must yield to the need for energy.

The energy would be "uno solo" of Machiavelli's _The Prince.
This "one alone" to which he refers is above the law, because the one is a presence who can deal in the facts at hand here and now now, unlike the rule of law which must cover all situations. In the case Mansfield makes, Bush is "the energy," the "uno solo."

Maybe I'm missing some little bit of sarcasm, but it seems to me that Mansfield most certainly is making the case for a monarch or a dictator!

glc
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
45. Ruthless Dictators are above the law presidents aren't.
Deport that fascist fool.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
47. Yeah, as long as it's not a Democratic President potentially doing biblically unauthorized things
with his dingus...

in that case, RULE OF LAW is all that matters!!!!!!!!
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
50. Personally, I applaud Mansfield...
for exercising his right to free speech. Now I'm going to exercise mine.

What a load of horse shit!
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
52. So does this mean that an omnipotent Dem. executive could unilaterally enact the Kyoto protocol,
raise mileage standards for US automakers, override federal drug laws, disband the DEA, permit cancer patients to smoke pot, permit patients to have access to the pain medication they need and the terminallly ill to have access to a pain-free exit if they so choose, order pharmacies to fill birth control and morning after prescriptions, order states to permit women access to reproductive health with NO interference from busybody state legislatures, etc etc all without having to bother with congress?

Cool!
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #52
62. Sure could, what with the war on terra lasting into perpetuity
So long as we're at war, President Kucinich can do anything he wants. :P
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. No shit, man.
Although for some reason as soon as a Democrat gets in the White House it seems to get magically transmogrified into a "ceremonial" position. :eyes:
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MLFerrell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
59. So, this asshole advocates dictatorship, huh?
Edited on Wed May-02-07 12:43 PM by MLFerrell
Well, fuck him, and anyone who agrees with him, I say.





"Democracy? We don't need no stinkin' Democracy!"

:sarcasm:
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
64. The Unitary Executive is the American version of the Communist Party in China
Global capitalism doesn't need democracy. It needs a powerful cabal to run the business, because weak gangs invite gang warfare, which is bad for stability, which is bad for business. Ultimately, the world is deciding between a system of nations (with democracy being the ideal) or a world of markets run by ruling families.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
69. How Straussian
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
71. But do they feel that a President Hillary would have the same
Edited on Wed May-02-07 11:03 PM by tblue37
right to ignore the law? They certainly didn't feel that a President Bill did.

In other words, these people only believe that a president has the right to be exempt from the rule of law when the president is a right wing Republican.

This is pure grasping for power, not based on principle at all.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
72. If I remember correctly, this guy is a real neanderthal on other
matters too (like women!). Somebody ought to do some googling -- I think he wrote a book a few years ago that was like straight out of the 1400s.
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G_Leo_Criley Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. Mansfield definitely not a feminist...
Harvey Mansfield wrote some piece of tripe, (not to insult tripe) called _Manliness, in which he claims that now that women have achieved "equality" they should enjoy their lesser form of equality. Oy.

I found a link to Colbert interviewing Mansfield here:
http://www.comedycentral.com/sitewide/media_player/play.jhtml?itemId=61315&vidFeature=&allowMotherload=true&poppedFrom=_shows_the_colbert_report_videos_celebrity_interviews_index.jhtml&

glc
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #76
81. That's IT -- Thanks. What an unmitigated misogynist ass. nt
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
73. Busholini bushitler ass licker
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
74. Seems to me that historically, when there is a KING
where there should be a Leader, there is always BLOOD in the STREETS.

Will there be a Revolution? Or will the People sit by warming their hands on their TVs as China Poisons them, and they SING the Corporate Company SONG.

NO KINGS. Not while I draw Breath.
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
75. I reiterate
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Blashyrkh Donating Member (816 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
77. That's great, but will they eat it when a Dem is in power?
Of course not and that makes the whole argument bunk.
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
79. WSJ- divine right of kings
Boy are those people stuck in the 1100s.
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
85. Oh, let's just throw away centuries of historical evidence
that would refute this argument, and indeed the reasons for the very foundation of our own constitution and form of government!
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