Dean: "I don't think this is reform"

[bigtree]

"But it's a step forward."

. . . on MSNBC right now.

I'm down with that.

[gateley]

1. Agree. I think most of us feel the same. nt

[Oregone]

2. A step where?

What is the idealogical roadmap that is the foundation of this private industry based legislation?

[truedelphi]

14. If you look to the histories of the Banana Republics, it is identical to

Their typical road maps.

1) Loss of voting transparency, and no guarantee that the people's vote counts.

2) Most of all candidates are chosen by the CIA or Big Corporate Interest in Power. Should someone like Wellstone somehow get some Power, they are disappeared or killed outright, with people too scared to do much. (Note: not ONE Senator asked for an investigation into the crash, although the plane burned for far too long to have been a normal private plane. What was aboard that it burned so long?)

3) No real media of any kind. Though we do have up to date TV and radio stations with fabulously modern equipment, count on Tiger Woods being covered far more than anything political.

4) Moderates are excluded from view. Only extremists on both sides are allowed any attention. Thus, one million peaceful people swamping the streets of San Francisco for an entire day to protest the planned invasion of Iraq gets a mere 20 second mention on network TV. Ditto the ten to twenty million people protesting world wide.

But three hundred Tea Baggers gets full mention. And when CIA decides to interject violence from the left, that will get full mention also. Which will probably not be attrributed only to fringe group, but to everyone who is not Centrist.

Never forget - it was the Progressives in Chile that were disappeared. Not the far and "violence obsessed-left" as the government needed them to focus attention on how bad the "left" is. And of course, never the neo Nazis. Just the Progressive crowd.

[Skink]

3. Of course but it has made some of the stuff the ins. companies do illegal and...

started to rally support for a medicare buy in as a public option.

[truedelphi]

17. Unfortunately, as one of the only chosen "tools" for cost containment

Happens to be the President's chosen option of "trimming" 500 billion bucks from MediCare, I am not sure that everyone having MediCare will end up m=meaning a damn thing.

many doctors will not take it, unless you are supplementing MediCare with a boutique and/or supplemental insurance.

[robinblue]

Market based healthcare just keeps going up. I do not

see this as a first step forward. The good things included such as covering kids with pre-existing conditions, etc could have been done as separate bills. But we ended up feeding the insurance companies which is not good in the long run. Some good things in it but if the progressives would have stuck together, we could have had a Medicare buy at least.

[cilla4progress]

13. Just too hypothetical.

I don't think we could have ever gotten there in the foreseeable future. It took me until about 3 weeks ago to go the route of Kucinich. But I became convinced. I guess primarily by Obama's stumping in the last couple weeks. If he - and Pelosi, Clyburn, Dingell, Reid, Lewis, Sanders, etc. etc. are lying to me - I will be angrier than anyone. I'm taking them at their word on this, that it will do measurable good.

[robinblue]

23. At that point they

started stumping hard for a bill. ANY bill, it did not matter what kind of bill. This I am convinced of.

[troubledamerican]

24. Why does Howard Dean hate America?

And why aren't you celebrating this historic transfer-of-wealth to the insurance companies?

It's a patriotic moment. A mandate, an excise tax, a betrayal of the best chance for change that Democrats will ever have.

[AndyA]

4. Not reform. Better than nothing. (Just barely.)

This at least will open the door to future reform.

If health care costs don't go down, we now have a reason to demand Congress makes changes. And they will need to do it as quickly as they responded to the Wall Street fiasco.

[Sebastian Doyle]

8. It MIGHT be better than nothing

...after the courts declare the mandate shit as unconstitutional. Then the minor insurance reform can be seen as a positive, I guess.

[Fire1]

5. Most everbody, including the President, knows this bill is not

'perfect.' But, anybody with an ounce of sense, also knows that this is the 'beginning' we've NEVER had before.

[dkf]

6. It's only a step forward in that government now Advocates insurance as the gateway to health care

And that It becomes a necessity for everyone.

Other than that it brings the whole system one step closer to collapse and the redesign of the whole thing. I sure hope we have some brave brilliant person like Howard Dean as President when this happens. In fact I see that Obamas screw up might pave the way for a President Dean.

[Karmadillo]

7. He's half right.

nt

[patrice]

9. You can trust Howard Dean to tell the Truth.

[EFerrari]

10. It's not reform and it's not a step forward but it's a win for us.

And we needed that.

[karmkay]

12. It is a win

And without this win, I don't think we can expect to win much else. It's a great disappointment but hugely important at the same time. O irony.

[EFerrari]

18. Welcome to DU, karmkay who really does understand what irony is.

lol

:hi:

[Kurt Remarque]

11. dr. dean is correct

[OKNancy]

15. "slippery slope" comes to mind

That is what the Repubs are really afraid of.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. I agree with that

I'd insert 'it's a first, tiny, uncertain step forward'.

[NNN0LHI]

19. I think he said its the first step for getting a public option

[ProSense]

20. Dean has said it's not insurance reform, it's health reform, which

he said here:

MADDOW: Can you call it health insurance reform, not health care reform?

DEAN: Certainly not health insurance reform because a lot of stuff that they say is going to be in it, like preexisting conditions stuff. It’s going to very helpful for children and young people but not for older people for very technical reasons. Basically, in the bill, there’s not a lot of insurance reform. They meant to put some in but somehow lost its way in the Senate Finance Committee.

more

[grantcart]

21. Its not progressive but it is reform and its a big step forward

To be frank it is hard to lable 'single payer' as being that progressive since it is backed by all of the conservative political parties in other industrialized countries.


On health care we have stepped from 'barbaric' to 'managed chaos' and remarkably that is a big step.

[optimator]

22. a step forward in fascism

Mussolini would be proud.

[derby378]

25. "The Senator from WellPoint is recognized..." (n/t)