The flip-flopping and dishonesty of Democrats re: HCR

[Ardent15]

"I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program," Obama said. "I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that's what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single-payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. That's what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we've got to take back the White House, we've got to take back the Senate, and we've got to take back the House."

-Illinois State Senator Barack Obama, June 2003.


Fast forward to January 2009, when the Democrats took back the House, Senate, and the Presidency, Nancy Pelosi took single-payer OFF THE TABLE.

Now, Pelosi declares the public option "dead", even though supposedly 51 Senators will support it.

Rewind to January 2008:

"Barack Obama is no fan of the individual mandate that has been central to the successful launch of the Massachusetts universal health care law. He likes to cite its foibles as he criticizes his Democratic presidential rival, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, for including a similar mandate in her national health care plan."

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/politics/view.bg?articleid=1076910

Yet look at the health care bill now. They are MANDATING insurance for every American.

Democrats: Trying to one-up the Republicans in corporate dishonesty since the 1980s.

[ixion]

1. Of course... it's all theater

so that they can claim to 'care', all the while serving their true masters.

[tavalon]

15. What, you don't like their Dog and Pony show?

Me neither.

[Greyhound]

2. K&R. We've seen them break the "4th wall" this week.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

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[Individualist]

4. K&R

[jefferson_dem]

5. Cynics are out in force today, I see.

Hope you enjoy yourselves. :hi:

[Ardent15]

6. Cynics? Not really.

Skeptics who detect bullshit? Absolutely.

[DefenseLawyer]

8. How the fuck can you have a pulse and not be a cynic about this process?

It's been a sham from the start. The Olympia Snowe fiasco... sham. The Joe Lieberman fiasco... sham. The Stupak fiasco... sham. The "letter"... sham. The President's sincerity... sham.

[jefferson_dem]

11. Thanks...for illustrating my point.

That very same "outrage" over the "process" is shared by thousands ... who walk around with teabags hanging from their hats.

We're all glad to see this year-long debate finally coming to a close. It hasn't been pretty - with Republican nutbags' incessant lies and nonsensical roadblocks on the one side and a few vocal liberals interjecting misdirected anxieties and purity demands on the other side.

Thankfully, it all ends within a couple weeks. On that, we agree.

[AllentownJake]

13. Over by the recess

One way or another, you are not getting a house vote on this after the recess.

[jefferson_dem]

14. Then what will we do?

We'll have to find something else to fight about. :(

[AllentownJake]

16. Whose repsonsible for bad polling going into the summer nt

[havocmom]

18. Ah, the 'you're either with us or with the teabaggers' ploy

That tune seems oddly familiar.

Oh yeah, it's a cover band version of tune played constantly 2001-

[jefferson_dem]

20. It's just the truth.

That's all. Sorry if it offends you.

[havocmom]

34. It is not either or. So not truth

Sorry that you can't seem to speak it.

[Kalun D]

19. LOOK over here.

""It hasn't been pretty - with Republican nutbags' incessant lies and nonsensical roadblocks""

ohh, look over here, them rascally repups, it's all their fault

meanwhile the fascist corp-a-dem DLC'rs lead by the ObamaRahma flim-flam sham are raping the American working class up the as*hole.

[DefenseLawyer]

21. I am a well known tea partier

You've got me pegged. I'm not outraged by the process. You may think it "wasn't pretty", I think it was just what they wanted. I don't think we got screwed by the Republicans or the Blue Dogs or any of the other sudden roadblocks which magically appeared whenever it looked like real reform was in the cards. The process was a show. The deal was done before the show ever started. They cynically took the promise of a much needed reform and turned it into just another corporate wet dream. But hey, you and Rahm and the rest of the poll watching, money grabbing insiders relish the "big win". Knock yourself out.

[kenny blankenship]

37. I'm not a cynic. I just have a good memory.

And Health Care "Reform" is a sham.

[readmoreoften]

17. By cynics, you mean people who can read and have longer attention spans than your average chicken?

No offense to the average chicken.

[Greyhound]

7. ..

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[scarletwoman]

26. PONY!!!!11!1!!!!11!eleven

PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY! PONY!

:rofl:

[laughingliberal]

39. ROFL!! nt

[TomCADem]

22. Well Go Back To Free Republic! Democrat and Proud!

I have no idea why folks go on a Democratic post in order to troll and attack Democrats. What I can not understand is how Republicans can defend their attempts to stall any form of health care reform with a straight face. The Republicans have pretty openly made clear that they are simply trying to stop reform merely for short term political gains, and you suggest that us Democrats are worse?

That is just pathetic.

[Bluebear]

23. The poster is disgusted about the health care bill & you call her a troll? Whatever.

[TomCADem]

25. The Post Is Calling Democrats Liars and You Defend Her?

This is "Democratic Underground." The "Dishonesty of Democrats" strikes me as an ad hominem attack on us all, or at least those of us who are Democrats. I guess I should go on Free Republic and post a similar post about Republicans, and see how well received it is.

[scarletwoman]

27. What's your problem? Did you help write the HRC bill?

At least TRY to have enough sense to understand the difference between the Democratic POLITICIANS referred to in the OP, and the hapless Democratic voters who have nothing to do with writing legislation.

[TomCADem]

28. So, Rep. Weiner is at Fault, Too? The Post Was Not Limited To Anyone, It Referred To "Democrats"

If the OP was limited to specific individuals, then your defense would make sense. Instead, you are re-writing the post by trying to limit it to politicians. Okay, so now you are throwing Kucinich under the bus, too, as well as Weiner?

Are we going throw Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu in the same boat as Weiner? The post was a broad attack on all Democrats:

"Democrats: Trying to one-up the Republicans in corporate dishonesty since the 1980s."

You are trying to defend this quote?

[scarletwoman]

31. I completely endorse and agree with that quote.

We the People have been sold out long ago. I'll allow that a very select few DC politicians have sincerely attempted to advocate for the good of the masses, but as a class the DC pols are generally corrupt and useless.

After 60 years on this green earth, I've seen with my own eyes how badly We the People have been served by our so-called representatives over the past 3 decades.

[TomCADem]

33. No Difference Between Republicans and Democrats? Then Why Post On "DU"?

This is my question. Some folks say that they represent "TRUE" Democratic ideals, but assert that all elected Democrats don't represent these ideals. So, why bother posting on a Democratic Underground?

Likewise, couldn't you make the same argument with respect to Republicans? Cound't you just as easily be a true Republican in the mold of Abraham Lincoln? Couldn't you just as easily argue that the elected Republicans do not truly represent true Republican ideals? Why not just go to Free Republic, and assert that all elected Republicans are RINOs?

Afterall, if you are asserting that all Democrats are corrupt, then why are you Democrat? Also, if you assert that you adhere to some platonic ideal of Democrat, couldn't you just as easily be a some idealized Republican?

I am sure at this point, I will get a response from some poster who will assert that all political parties are corrupt in a very egalitarian post. Once again, then why bother then posting on a Democratic website?

[scarletwoman]

38. DU has no connection to the Democratic PARTY. It says so straight out in the FAQs.

I was born into a New Deal Democratic family. My parents were children of the Depression who revered FDR. My dad was a blue collar union man.

The earliest political education I got from my parents was that the Democrats were the party of the working folks, and the Republicans were the party of the rich folks -- and I lived by, and voted by, that principle from the time I was old enough to vote.

When I say that today's DC Democratic politicians aren't worth a bucket of cold piss, I come by that opinion honestly and after much research and hard examination of the facts.

See, I'm old enough to know what the Democratic party USED to stand for. And I damn well know that they DON'T anymore because I've been paying attention and watching for decades.

I refuse to be a blind partisan. I'm certainly under no obligation to be loyal to a political party that isn't loyal to the People. And they are not, and have not been for some time.

And I post here on DU for the exact same reason I posted here all through the bush* years -- to do what I can to wake people up out of their blind servitude to the Ruling Class.

sw

[hulka38]

40. There weren't too many Mr. Smiths in this process and I'm not talking about the guy

from Lost In Space. A lot of Democrats were saying the right things in public and signing lists at certain times to assure us of they were doing everything they could do. But it always had a sense of being contrived and unnatural. By the end, I think Nancy abruptly pulled the plug on the thing because she couldn't stand the odor.

Who's going to stand up and say what really happened here? I'm not expecting anyone to.

[Kalun D]

42. Damn Straight

"Democrats: Trying to one-up the Republicans in corporate dishonesty since the 1980s."

"You are trying to defend this quote?"

damn straight, the corp-a-dems like Obama are just slicker than the republicans, that's all. Obama talks a really good game.

the end result is no different from the repugs. In fact he may be more effective for the corporations because the game he talks distracts so well from the as* raping of the working class that is what's really going on.

[Kalun D]

29. In case you haven't noticed

we have a huge crop of corp-a-dems ensconced in WA DC

they are democrats in name only, led by the ObamaRahma flim-flam-sham, they are sold out to the fascist corps to the bone.

[TomCADem]

30. Seriously, Obama and the Democrats Are Facists? The only DINOs Are Those Who Make Such Claims...

Is the right the new left? What is the difference between your claims of Democratic "facism" and those of Tea Parties sporting these signs:

<>

When posts on a Democratic Board start repeating right wing talking points, attacking Democrats en masse, while romanticizing Republicans or giving them a free pass, I can't help but wonder.

"they are democrats in name only, led ObamaRahma flim-flam-sham, they are sold out to the fascist corps to the bone."

Yet, another broad attack that appears designed to confuse and divide, rather than actual promote progressive goals like the passage of comprehensive health care reform that will expand health care coverage to over 30 million people.

Yet, the right wing, and apparently some on the "left," are trying to portray this effort as facism.

Once again, is the right the new left?

No, I think the right is still the same old right, but just posting on DU and accusing Democrats of being facists.

[Kalun D]

32. Corp-a-dem Talking Points

"rather than actual promote progressive goals"

Obama talks progressive but he walks corporate. Fascist is just hyperbole although the traditional textbook definition fits. Not the death camps but the Mussolini merger of the corporate and the state.

every single thing he's done from the get go has benefited the corporations. The only things that have benefited the working people are inconsequential.

"No, I think the right is still the same old right, but just posting on DU and accusing Democrats of being facists."

I'm not right by any stretch and the "democrats" I'm dissing are not real democrats by any stretch, they are corporatists.

"like the passage of comprehensive health care reform"

If you would read the fine print you would see it's garbage. There's a reason the corps stopped one of the largest lobbying efforts in recent history in the Senate, they stopped it because they had arrived at what they wanted.

[TomCADem]

35. ...says the person who called members of the Obama administration facists...

Also, once again, if you are asserting that YOU are a true Democrat, and that all elected Democrats are just corporate DINOs, then couldn't you make the same argument with respect to Republicans?

Maybe you are some platonic ideal of a Republican, and all elected Republicans are merely corporatist RINOs, and the key is for Republicans to return to their real roots as the party of Lincoln.

If you are too pure for this party, then is this really your party? Also, if your argument is that Democratic party has strayed, couldn't you make the same argument as to the Republicans?

I know, perhaps you hate all political parties and politics in general. If so, why are you posting on "Democratic Underground, which may actually be filled with the same Democratic party supporting people you apparently disdain?

If you aren't happy, then it is time to engage and get active, rather than to embrace apathy, and withdraw into some platonic ideal of "Democrat" that no one actually meets.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

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[Kalun D]

43. CORPORATISTS

"says the person who called members of the Obama administration facists"

they are by the textbook Mussolini definition. "the merger of corporations and government". I repeat myself because you didn't get it the first time.

""all elected Democrats are just corporate DINOs, then couldn't you make the same argument with respect to Republicans?""

that's a no brainer. We know the repugs are bad, they straight up admit it. The corp-a-dems are worse in a way because they say they are on the working class side but their actions show they are on the corporate side.

"If you are too pure for this party, then is this really your party?"

Too pure? I'm just an old school dem, like the majority of the party used to be. Are you saying because the majority has sold out to the corps that it's good? It's okay?

"If so, why are you posting on "Democratic Underground, which may actually be filled with the same Democratic party supporting people you apparently disdain?"

I don't think a majority of DUers supports corporate democrats. Maybe they support what they say and think that it's true, but they don't support corporate whore actions.

""it is time to engage and get active, rather than to embrace apathy, and withdraw into some platonic ideal of "Democrat" that no one actually meets.""

I am engaging people who think a $700 Billion dollar giveaway to the crooked bankers is okay, people who think appointing the same criminal bankers to positions of bank oversite is okay, people who think Obama's back door deals with big pharma and health care corps is okay. The people that accept this garbage are the ones that are apathetic.

There's a few more than just Kucinich, it's not "no one".

Just because all of the repugs and a majority of the dems are sold out to the corporations doesn't mean the minority left that speak the truth are wrong.

[havocmom]

36. Those who insist on shouting down or denigrating opposing views

Makes ya wonder about their real agenda and persuasion, doesn't it, Bear? This team of cheerleaders not so different in style and technique as the last bunch.

[Bluebear]

44. Seriously!

[Raineyb]

45. Troll? I would suggest you check the mirror. n/t

[Richard Steele]

24. The audacity of getting my hopes up. K&R