When uninsured Americans learn about the mandate, the outcry will lead to the PO being passed

[apples and oranges]

Think about it. I think the Public Option will pass but only after uninsured Americans get up to speed with what's going on and then raise hell about the private insurance rates.

[AllentownJake]

1. Actually the outcry will lead to a GOP congress IMHO

and a GOP President in 2012, who promises to do away with it, but than discovers, they can't for some nonsense reason.

[NightWatcher]

2. wish you were here

and in a perfect world....

[tekisui]

3. Unless the Dems still refuse to do it.

In which case there will just be an outcry against Dems.

[JVS]

4. Yeah, because if there is one group in society that has the clout to get...

the government to do what they want it's the uninsured.

[Lerkfish]

+1000

[Lerkfish]

12. +1000

[Fumesucker]

5. The only ones with a voice in our goverment are those who can make a big contribution..

Uninsured Americans do not fall into that favored category so no one in government will listen to them..

Edited for speling.

[Ozymanithrax]

6. The mandate works in other countires. They will only get upset if...

it proves not to work here. We are not going to know that for seveal years.

People who want to be aware are aware. Those who are not, watch television.

[Fumesucker]

7. The mandate works in countries where they strictly regulate private insurers..

The chances of that happening here run from zero all the way to nil..

[Ozymanithrax]

9. You may be right, but we still don't know that.

There are things in the bill intended to lower costs. Medicaid is being expanded to more people and will cost them nothing (or a small deductible). Middle class families will see help with the costs that reduces the price of health care to them. How effective will those be. We don't know. If they are not effective enough, more controls will probably be put in. Remember, the PO was nothing more than a means of controlling cost by forcing companies to compete with a cheaper plan. It is a capitalist concept from the get-go.

[Fumesucker]

14. California has already given up on regulating Anthem Blue Cross..

They are just too big and powerful, when the state tries to regulate them Anthem just ties everything up in court.

What the big insurance companies can't get by buying the legislatures they'll get through dominating in court with their vast financial resources.

[Ozymanithrax]

18. And that is a problem that needs to be fixed through the legislature.

I would have prefered that the U.S. set up a system like that in France, England, or Canada. That is not going to happen, now or in the foreseable future. But the Health Care bill will help and it can be improved over time.

[Raineyb]

8. Other countries actually regulate the insurance companies.

They don't let them profit on basic heath care. They don't allow them to cancel policies with a claim of "fraud" they don't have preexisting conditions clauses. They don't let the insurance companies rape their citizens. We don't have that in this country. It will not work here as it's written.

[Ozymanithrax]

13. The intended route from the beginning was to use Capitalist Market forces.

The PO, by offering a cheaper plan with low overhead was intended to compete with other Health Insurance Companies and lower prices through market forces. It was never ever a single payer system. Rather than write in limits to the corporations, our system has been written to create market forces that lower prices through competition. Health Insurance companies that can not compete with the supposed low cost of the PO would create cheaper plans, or much better plans that are worth a bit more. The mandate works this way. It adds a lot of people who are healthy and will rarely use the health care they buy. With a lot more customers to spread the risk, these companies will theoretically reduce the price in order to compete for more customers that allow them to make higher profits.

There was no aspect of this system, and especially the Public Option, that was not based on concepts of capitalist systems. The mandate is actually the largest of this cost cutting parts of the bill.

Will it work? Nobody knows, though the economic theory behind it is sound.

Personally, I think a single payer system would work better. We could even keep all the existing health insurance companies and utilize a single payer system. The government would be the accountant that takes all the money and spreads it out to the insurance companies, Medicare, or Medicaid that provides the service. This would shave as much as 4% overhead from private companies, all of whom have their own system of billing. But nobody really considered that.

[Fumesucker]

15. Capitalist Market Forces are what gave us the current disaster in health care..

Health care is not as amenable to market forces as many other services for a variety of reasons..

When you have a heart attack are you going to take the time to shop around and see which hospital has the best rates, which doctor has the best record and so forth?

Or are you going to call the ambulance and hope against hope that you don't get financially raped to go along with the heart attack?

[Ozymanithrax]

17. That is not entirely accurate...

Each state has set up its pet Health CARE companies, and they are exempt from anti-trust regulations that would otherwise deny them the right to set up monopolies. Health Care companies are legal monopolies in our system at this time. That is not free market capitalism and not actually capitalist in any sense. It is amenable to market forces if the market is set up to force them to play on an even field.

Now, if you are asking if that would be enough to bring prices down far enough to allow universal health care. I don't think so. Certainly the working poor, and actually anyone under about $25,000.00 a year would need to have some form of health care (Medicaid or Medicare). This Health care bill does that. Many of the middle class will need help paying. The health care bill does that. But prices can be brought down if they are required to actually compete.

I have health insurance. I know about how much it will cost me if I have a heart attack. Hospital is irrelevant Because I have health insurance and regular preventative health care, I am aware of how healthy my heart is and work to maintain my health at optimal level. My ticker is doing very well, though I am having physical therapy for my Achilles tendons. I pay a $20.00 copay for each visit to the therapist. I also have medicines that I get for a copay. The Health Care bill sill reduce my costs.

I am not a member of the working poor.

[Fumesucker]

20. Jim Fixx died of a masive heart attack..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Fixx

James F. Fixx (April 23, 1932–July 20, 1984) was the author of the 1977 best-selling book, The Complete Book of Running. Best known as Jim Fixx, he is credited with helping start America's fitness revolution, popularizing the sport of running and demonstrating the health benefits of regular jogging.

California has given up on trying to regulate Anthem Blue Cross, they are just too big and powerful for a puny little state like CA to handle, they just take every attempt at regulation to court and tie it up in interminable legal proceedings.

[Ozymanithrax]

23. Everybody dies. But health care helps keep us healthy.

[Donnachaidh]

10. there has been a long and loud OUTCRY up till this very moment

What EXACTLY makes you believe Washington gives one red shit about any future *outcry*, as long as their deals with Pharma and Big Insurance go through as planned?

[dflprincess]

11. Right - because all the efforts to communicate what we want

have worked so well to date.

That must be why we're getting the Insurance Profit Protection Act rather than something that gives us access to care.

I admire your optimism, but I fear it's badly misplaced.

[Coyote_Bandit]

16. An unproven assumption about

something that might possibly happen in the future is not a good reason to make a poor choice in the present.

The healthcare reform proposals that are currently on the table are far from adequate. We'd do well to quit pretending otherwise. Best thing would be for them to go down in defeat.

Maybe somebody in the future would have the guts to actually put forth proposals to bring meaningful reform. Obviously the current leaders are lacking i the ability and willingness to do so. They are more concerned about their corporate overlords. Fuck 'em.

[Ozymanithrax]

19. Then you believe the current system is the best we can have now.

Any improvement over the current system, no matter how inadequate, is better than what we have.

[Coyote_Bandit]

24. Ummmm......No

I think we elected some cowards who lack the humanitarian principles to actually contend for meaningful healthcare reform. The sorry SOBs weren't even willing to entertain evidence and testimony regarding all the alternatives. Fuck 'em.

The proposals currently on the table leave some in a worse position. The only folks guaranteed to benefit are the INSURANCE companies.

[rucky]

21. Learn? They already know. This is the least popular form of the bill ever!

and the one most likely to pass.

[VMI Dem]

22. Its all part of the chess being played.

[Odin2005]

25. *DOUBLE-FACEPALM*