So what exactly is the problem with the Oath Keepers?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

I have seen several posts in recent days calling them a right wing militia group. After a cursory glance at their web site I could find nothing overtly partisan, in fact they claim to be non-partisan. I can't say as I have a problem with any of the "Declaration Of Orders We Will Not Obey". Link to it is here http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2009/03/03/declaration-of-orders-we-will-not-obey/ . Could someone fill me in? Is it just the fact that they appeared after President Obama took office (that is suspicious)?

[pnwmom]

1. These people would have refused to fight for the union in the civil war:

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

21. That one is a little strange.

[Archae]

2. They're far-right paranoid whacks.

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/oath-keepers-chief-points-katrina-re

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/tea-party-leader-arrested-rape

[Make7]

3. Mother Jones: Oath Keepers and the Age of Treason

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/oath-keepers
 

[nebenaube]

4. they showed up a few years too late? n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

7. As I noted that is suspicious.

[katanalori]

5. You will find a good analysis here -

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/oath-keepers

"Oath Keepers and the Age of Treason"

"Glenn Beck loves them. Tea Partiers court them. Congressmen listen to them. Meet the fast-growing "patriot" group that's recruiting soldiers to resist the Obama administration."

edited to add: sorry to repeat post #3 - I was readying it and posted b4 seeing #3.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

11. Thanks, very informative. Ron Paul staffer kind of makes them partisan, eh?

Something is hinky about that picture though.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[Fire_Medic_Dave]

8. Reading is fundamental.

[Bluebear]

9. :)

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[Fire_Medic_Dave]

17. Oh please don't refer to me as them. You'll hurt my feelings.

[northoftheborder]

10. oath keepers

Look at what they do, not what they say. Mother Jones had a feature article on them recently. They definitely are a militia group, racist, arming themselves to the teeth, storing up huge supplies of food and ammunition in Idaho (or Utah) for whatever they imagine is going to come after them.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

12. Someone else posted the link, thanks.

[tularetom]

14. A bunch of scared people, talking tough

There's a lot of that going around these days.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

22. It is one of the reactions that fear can provoke.

[hlthe2b]

15. So, now that you've had the opportunity to read two expose's on them

Has this changed your mind, Fire_Medic_Dave? I surely hope so. These guys are not just second amendment advocates. They would support treason against this country (and certainly against an African American CIC). Whether it is just bluster or not, they are certainly promoting some dangerous views.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

16. I don't believe them to be non-partisan. I appreciate the info.

I still don't see a problem with the orders they will refuse.

[kristopher]

19. It isn't the orders they will refuse..

That is part of standard training in the military concerning the obligation to disobey an unlawful order. What makes them flaky is their beliefs regarding the legitimacy of the CinC. They would be court martialed and convicted if they predicated refusal on their view of his status - which is what this is really all about.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. My cursory glance at the website didn't come across info questioning the CinC.

[xfundy]

18. Well, first of all they couldn't come up with a better name

... than the "Promise keepers," another bunch of whack jobs

When someone comes into your house swearing they won't steal the silver, count the silver.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

23. It is cheesy.

[Lasher]

24. The American Enterprise Institute claims to be nonpartisan.

It is not a coincidence that the Oath Keepers appeared just after Obama took office. Change a word or two and they could be birthers encouraging active military personnel to disobey orders. Their fearmongering about being herded into concentration camps is accompanied by frequent dog whistles for those who want to restore the states' rights (segregation, wink wink) of the 1950s.

They belong to the Friends for Liberty coalition that includes the John Birch Society, the 9/12 Project, and Vaccination Liberation. Surely you are aware of the concern that the Southern Poverty Law Center has expressed about the Oath Keepers. They are just the sort of rightwing extremists that the Department of Homeland Security warned us about.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

28. Vaccination Liberation... Now there is something else for me to look up.

Actually I'm not aware of the SPLC's concern.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

32. I'd say we have some DUer's that are members of Vaccination Liberation.

[Lasher]

35. Not all members of DU have the same gifts of logic and reason that you and I share.

The SPLC cites the Oath Keepers as “a particularly worrisome example of the Patriot revival.”

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/10/21/oath-keepers-say-theyre-on-patrol-in-iraq/

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

37. 3%'s another group I've never heard of. I am a member of the IAFF...

and I have a sticker on my helmet that says "1*" as in 1 ass-to-risk. The IAFF is generally considered to be left leaning at least in all the elections since I have been a member.

[Lasher]

39. I read up on the Oath Keepers awhile back.

I got an email invitation to join them, I guess since I'm a vet. I didn't take them up on the offer. I don't think the SPLC has gone so far as to list them as a hate group but I think they're in the neighborhood.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

40. I hadn't even heard of them until the other day someone mentioned them in the Gungeon.

I destroy all junk mail without opening it.

[Lasher]

41. Sometimes I look in on my junk email folder.

How else could you learn about great prices on generic viagra?

I remember seeing you in the Gungeon once or twice.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. We had a pretty good run in the Health Forum with the H1N1 vaccine.

The gungeon is very tame now.

[Lasher]

43. Whoda thunk it, the Health Forum as a bastion of controversy?

I'll have to look in.

[lunasun]

25. the Board of Directors

are not my cup of 'tea'

[Nikki Stone1]

26. If they really stand for what they say they stand for, then I have no problem with them.

It's what's behind the words that worries me.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

29. That is usually the case unfortunately.

[Nikki Stone1]

33. Yep. The words sound good, but the actual conversations that go on within the group can be

frightful.

[johnaries]

27. My neice had an "Promise Keepers" wedding.

I couldn't believe my ears as she basically vowed to be a slave to her husband.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

30. How long did it last?

[MadHound]

31. Well for one thing, they're rather right wing

For another, if you've read the Mother Jones article, they have a fairly racist streak running through them. Then there are the orders they won't obey. Sounds great on the surface, but a lot of it is in the interpretation. For instance, this one, "We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union." Sorry, but that's bull, straight out of the Civil War. This falls in line with what other fringe RW populist groups are trying to pull, that the Tenth Amendment allows them to do whatever they want in their own state, Federal power be damned. Meanwhile we've got whackjobs in states trying to pass sovereignty laws and such in order to keep HCR from being implemented, among other things. Hell, Rick Perry just wants to secede.

This one is sheer hypocrisy, "We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps. " They may not obey that order, but if the shit hits the fan, that is their gameplan right there, blockade major cities and starve them into submission.

Number 10, "We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances." really opens the door to interpretation on their part. Are they going to go off on free speech zones and such?

But the largest objection I have against them is that they are taking the law into their own hands with this one, looking to become a vigilante army, not a good thing. Not to mention having more and more folks like this in either the military or police forces isn't a good thing. What does it do to moral when you don't know whether the man or woman next to you will watch your back or go all vigilante militia on your ass.

Sorry, but this is not a good thing, and nothing but bad will come from it. It is over reacting, over zealous RW whackjobs seduced by the times and the siren song of some large RW revolution. The sad thing, with the RW now having this sort of militant backing it will only encourage even worse actions in the future. These people want some sort of violent confrontation, they think that they can win, this sort of thing only encourages that notion.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. That has been established. Thanks for the input.

I wouldn't worry to much about them, they'll probably just meet up and drink beer and talk about what they would do.

[MadHound]

36. Oh I think that they're a bit more serious that drinking beer and talking

Frankly a think that they're quickly becoming a threat to this country. Like I said earlier, hard to run a military or police force when you don't know who you can depend on in the ranks.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

38. Okay, I doubt it though. Most cops I know are to busy to join a group that might hurt them...

when it comes time for promotions. They would join the Mason's if they were going to join something.

[TexasObserver]

44. The problem is they're a right wing group that hates Obama and Democrats.

If you've read about them, you know they are made up of the same fringe elements that organize Tea Bagger events.

The KKK claims it is Christian. A group can claim they embrace ideals they don't embrace, and the Oaf Makers is just another such misnamed group. They should call themselves THE CONFEDERACY. They don't respect the constitution and never have. They hate the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments.

[HughBeaumont]

45. My problem with them is that they're a

bunch of White Nationalist wankers dressed head to toe in Camo claiming to be independent while attending and associating with nothing but arch-rightist events and having swelling membership rates AFTER late 2008. They can shove their Gadsens straight up their asses. You want to be suspicious of "liberals"? I'd be suspicious of cops that turn a blind eye to these assholes who brandish guns near where the President is going to be.

"Oath Keepers is officially nonpartisan" :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: Here's the thing, kiddies. When you hear the words "Apolitical", "non-partisan", "Independent" attributed by any site, group, movement . . . it's almost ALWAYS code for "Arch-Right Wing". Go bullshit someone else, Grand Cyclops.

These guys want to impress me? Invade CEO's homes and boardrooms. They're the REAL enemy of this country, and they're laughing their fat, stogie-huffing ASSES off at people like the Tea Klux Klan and the OathKeeps. They're doing more work for their rich "betters" than they even understand. Corporations are using the Oath Keeper's not-so-hidden bigotry to their advantage in keeping more and more whiteys divided and still fighting the Cold War, all the while distracting the looting. "Hey, if it means turning the guns on each other, that lets US off the hook! Keep it up, puppets!"

[EvolveOrConvolve]

46. The only person I know who is a member

is also a hyper-nationalistic, right-wing racist who is actively arming himself for the "revolution". These people scare me, all flowery words from their website aside.

[ThomWV]

47. Jesus, can't you see through their bullshit? They are a militant State's Rights orginization

No more and no less. They would have the states take away every single right you have. They would arm the local police until they looked like the Marines - which of course they already do.

These people are slick but they are the same trash that has been polluting this nation since the Civil War.

We are a nation of law in which the law can be changed by the people - despite them being too lazy or stupid to do it. That is a web site that advocates anarchy, no more, no less.