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Why Was The Sea World Trainer Killed By Captive Orca Tilikum?

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DesertRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:04 AM
Original message
Why Was The Sea World Trainer Killed By Captive Orca Tilikum?
Edited on Sun Feb-28-10 11:05 AM by DesertRat
After considerable time spent researching this latest tragic death at a theme park, I am left more with the question of how captive orcas can survive mentally, emotionally, and physically than I am with any question of why this happened. Tilikum's story illustrates all that is wrong with the management of captive cetaceans, and underscores the need to increase legislation to protect these animals because those institutions have found ways to circumvent laws and eviscerate the marine mammal protection act.

(snip)

But what about Tilikum? He was captured in Iceland in 1983, at the age of two years - this is about the equivalent age of a two-three year old child, an age when young orcas are still tightly bound to their mothers and other family members (whom they stay with throughout their lives).
Once captured, he was kept in a holding facility at Hafnarfjord Marine Zoo, Saedyrasafnid, in a small pool made of concrete (measuring 66 x 49ft and only 20ft deep). There are many allegations that Sea World financed the captures and holding of orcas in foreign countries to skirt the marine mammal protection act, but I have not been able to substantiate this yet.

Tilikum, still very young, was then sold to Canada's now defunct Sealand of the Pacific where he was kept with two other young orcas. The training regimen there is reputed to have included food shortage and sensory deprivation:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/candacewhiting/archives/195833.asp
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Everything about this is heartbreaking.
We can and should do better.
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. well, ya know, there's a buck to be made. THAT ethic will
have to be changed before we see much reform.

ellen fl
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DesertRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. Exactly, people need to stop visiting Sea World if we want change
Observing orcas in the wild, or learning about them from multi-media means such as IMAX movies, video, and websites provides a better education about the true nature of orcas, and is better for both the orcas and humans involved.
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DesertRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. The most humane thing to do is to retire him
As the primary breeding male for all three Sea World parks, Tillikum is a very valuable asset to Sea World, as captures of orcas in the wild have virtually been stopped and the population of captive orcas has been going down in recent years.

Tillikum should not be euthanized or punished for behaviors brought about from confinement by humans; and after 27 years of captivity he should be given the chance to retire to an ocean sea pen in his home waters of Iceland to live out the rest of his life.

http://www.orcanetwork.org/news/tillikumnewsrelease.html
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Great post, and I totally agree.
Can't say it any better. Thanks.
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. It's the same story with elephants, dolphins, lions/tigers in the zoo
and at the circus. Elephants have killed many, and many deservedly so. Dolphins in those "jump in the pool and swim with the dolphin park" have harmed visitors. How many times have we heard of lions and tigers turning on their trainers.

These are intelligent wild animals, and we cage them in tiny tiny biospheres and expect them to survive happily?

I am constantly surprised when these events happen and get so much news play. Duh....if we continue to abuse animals by capturing them in the wild, even to the point of breaking up families, then we can't be surprised when they kill.

Orca's in a tank is cruel and unusual punishment. It's a SuperMax prison for wildlife. Only when more are killed will this nonsense stop.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. I agree totally on these whales....
Edited on Sun Feb-28-10 11:42 AM by hlthe2b
and I often cringe--even at the best run zoos. When I spend time with the chimps and gorillas, it is impossible for me not to consider that they have been sentenced to a cruel and unnatural life, even while I am happy to view them and know that for some, they would have been hunted to extinction in the wild.

I can appreciate defenders of zoos who argue that they (when provided as "natural" a confinement habitat as possible) serve a valuable function in breeding these animals and informing the world's youth so that they "grow up to care." That last bit is a sad commentary, but one no doubt based on some truth. If we don't teach kids to "care" about these animals, then they won't fight those who would exploit and exterminate them in the wild.

More wildlife preserves that are strictly governed and policed in home nations is certainly one answer, but in countries where these animals are not native, do we do away with zoos and hope that nature tv specials will do the job? I don't know... At the other baffling extreme will be those who maintain that even keeping of pet dogs and cats is "cruel." I do think these ocean parks need to be the subject of major new policy and constraints. Elephants are another species requiring particular immediate scrutiny... I don't know the ultimate solution, but it needs to be one of continuing evolution.

But for those who think that rehabilitation back to the wild is the ultimate solution, I encourage you to listen to this story of Lucy (the chimp taught sign language decades ago) and her future outcome. It is incredibly thought provoking and wrenching. /i]

http://blogs.wnyc.org/radiolab/2010/02/19/lucy/

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
33. Submariner, you got it exactly right. nt
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. Years ago I visited the Central Park Zoo and was sickened to see that one of their elephants
was standing, manically rocking back and forth. It reminded me of when I went to see a friend who was at a psychiatric hospital. I never went back to the zoo after that. Several years later, they changed the exhibits and many of the animals were sent to other zoos until the zoo was ready. No one wanted to take a certain elephant. I could easily guess which one.

These are Intelligent animals and to have them waste away with no mental activities is cruel and inhumane, IMHO.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. this might be mentioned in the article...but social cetaceans learn acceptable behavior
from older members of the group...and adolescent males, if there's no adult males to keep them in check, will go on rampages and do all sorts of destructive stuff b/c they haven't learned how to stay inside of the "lines," which is passed on by adult males.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. I so despise Sea World and other agents of marine mammal slavery.
:mad::mad::mad::mad:
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DesertRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. Have you seen the documentary, The Cove?
It's an amazing true story. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in marine mammals.

http://www.thecovemovie.com/
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #29
42. Thanks, I will check it out!
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
6. Even less intelligent mammals, such as horses would be driven insane by the way they keep orcas
I raised and kept my own stallion and as he grew up pastured him with other horses. He had the reputation of being the best natured stallion in town. Even so, my stallion once hurt me badly when he was unhappy about the behavior of another horse in the barn - he did not mean to hurt me, he was just reacting to the situation.

Many stallions are hyped up, super sexual and cannot be safely handled, especially around other horses, particularly around other males. But they are segregated from other horses at breeding time and simply do not know how to interact with other animals of their species.

Horses have been bred for captivity for millenia and are not anywhere as intelligent as orcas, but I would not subject a horse to the kind of treatment Tilikum received. I wish there were some way of turning back the clock and returning him to his pod.
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DesertRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. I think he has been driven insane by his captors, used for his sperm:
Tilikum's main job these days is to breed - public sentiment is against capture of wild orcas and the captive gene pool is limited so his function as a breeding male is priceless to Sea World. The problem: actually getting him together with females is astronomically difficult since the females are in theme parks all over the world.

Sea World's answer? They trained this unfortunate, unhappy and deprived animal to give up his sperm. They tease him with estrous ('in heat") females, or excite him by putting other males in his tank, then he has to ejaculate into a specially designed container. The sperm is frozen and shipped all over, and these geniuses cross-breed Atlantic and Pacific range orcas, and unbelievably...even the meat eating "transient" type (which eat seals, sea lions, whales, dolphins, and otters) with the fish eating "resident" types.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. Yeah - I haven't dealt with stallions used for artificial inseminsation
As the only way they are bred. Some of the horse breed associations do not allow it or have only gradually allowed it. The few stallions I have seen that were trained for collection also did live covers and were allowed to spend time with other horses.

It would almost be a mercy to put Tilikum down - at least then he would be out of his suffering. I cannot believe that an intelligent animal kept under the circumstances he is does not suffer.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
7. Because humans can't breath when pulled under water and are fragile?
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
8. as its the third time hes done it and we give them the value of a lot of intelligence
could he simply be the worlds first inter species serial killer, where all the victims young blonde women by any chance...
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. worlds first inter species serial killer?
Europeans used to shoot bison for sport from moving trains and let them lay there to die. Big fun.

No I think the inter species serial killer stuff began long ago.

Don
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. true but i meant coming the other way from an intelligent fish :)
i know mammal but you know what i mean.... hamamal lecter so to speak.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Orcas are NOT fish.
They are marine mammals.
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. jeeze did you even read the post :)
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Don't leave out helicopter wolf huntin'
And many other examples.

:thumbsup:
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DesertRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. One was a man who snuck in and entered the tank during the night
In July 1999 a man entered Orlando Sea World and hid, then apparently removed his clothing and entered the tank with Tillikum during the night. A dead, naked body was discovered in the early morning, draped over Tillikum.

http://www.orcanetwork.org/news/tillikumnewsrelease.html
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. i dont know why but this has CSI written all over it,
can you imagine if the orca had just decided im quietly gonna kill people every chance i get if i can get away with it looking like an accident, would make a hell of an interesting scientific study and a great movie..
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. If he had a driver's license he could really rack up the body count
I always say
that I hate driving so much
I could never make it as a serial killer:)
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. rofl dude i can just see me pulling over the hummer and the window coming down
and theres the orca with a fake licence with the name of tony tuna on it.....
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
38. That's gotta be hell trying to text with those fins
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. rofl, and the giant slurpy as well, the visions of this traffic stop are funny as fuck
i have no idea how i would react to this and then to find warrants for 3 murders on him, jeessusss chrispy what the hell do i tell my supervisor.... lol
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
9. I feel sick
how can we call ourselves human?
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. Sea World of Orlando resumed their Killer Whale show yesterday...
.. hey.. a buck is a buck... on with the show..
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. with the emphasis on the KILLER part, i wonder if hes simply killing us for fun
and as i said i wonder if all the victims fit a profile...
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. There has never been a documented human kill in the wild
consider that... despite incidents where humans have come into contact...
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. might just mean hes the first to kill us for fun or the others where better at hiding the evidence
and lets be honest how the hell do we know that there has never been a kill in the wild even if it was by accident, there are not always witnesses...
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. If you read my post it says DOCUMENTED
Do you really think in this day and age if whales were killing humans "for fun" it would not be reported. Do you really believe that behaviors of animals in a strange and severely restrictive captive environment would not be changed or impacted by that environment? Really?
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. do you really believe that even though its not documented that with the interaction that happens
between man and beast that there has never been a fatality, hell we dont know why the orca killed the girl or the other people before. it could be for any reason up to and including insanity, vengenance, accident or it could enjoy killing shit, who knows thats the point...
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. I find your attitude towards animals amazing,
Edited on Sun Feb-28-10 12:22 PM by hlthe2b
reveling in ignorance, and disgusting... After all, Moby Dick had to be based on a real incident, right? :sarcasm:

Ignore
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. and i find your lack of understanding of the animal world outstanding
you do realise that it really is a dog eat dog world out there, that nature though beautiful at times has claws and that nice cute animal is not so cute to its prey... mayby you need to actually see nature at work to get this...
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Self Delete
Edited on Sun Feb-28-10 12:48 PM by hlthe2b
I choose not to interact with you further
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. probuably best if you think all animals are fluffy.....
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Look at it this way, if you will.
Edited on Sun Feb-28-10 01:14 PM by Cetacea
Hundreds of years of documented cases of human interactions with Orcas in the wild (and thousands of undocumented stories through the centuries)) at this point in time appear to show that Orcas have never harmed a human , and in fact have occasionally assisted humans in hunting. And orcas have never retaliated when being provoked by humans, despite their obvious advantage in their habitat...

Thousands of documented cases (and many more undocumented stories through the centuries)) at this point in time appear to show that humans have been known to kill the intelligent, large dolphins known as Orcas (and other cetaceans) for fun ,cruelty, and food.
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. Orcas and Food
Edited on Sun Feb-28-10 01:30 PM by Kalun D
Orcas only kill for food. Humans don't have enough fat on them to be considered as food by Orcas. Their sonar tells them this before they attack.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. They also kill small birds.
Edited on Sun Feb-28-10 02:26 PM by Cetacea
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
20. omg, MY pool is 33 x 20 and it's barely long enough for me to swim laps ...
.that's just mean.
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