Snowmaggedon, Son of Snowmaggedon, the Snowicane -- WHY do we let this HAPPEN???

[smalll]

This winter, particularly over the past month, the great megalopolis of the Northeast - from DC, through Philly, through NY, up to Boston - has been relentlessly pounded with foot after foot of snow, shattering records. For one example, the snow total in Central Park for the month of February has reached 36.9 inches -- the snowiest month in the city's history ever since records have been taken. The previous high monthly total recorded in Central Park was 30.5 inches in March 1896, and the previous high for the month of February was 27.9 in 1934.

The great northeastern megalopolis has the highest concentration of population, government, business activity, and wealth in the country. When it gets hit, tens of millions of people are directly affected, and tens, if not hundreds of billions of dollars are wasted (lost business activity, the increased burden put upon municipal governments to clear away the snow, etc. etc.)

After the Snowicane, today, it seems that ONE MILLION homes and business are left without power: (http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/snow-hurricane-snowicane-snowstorm-spreads-york-england-ohio/story?id=9954071)

WHY do we allow this to happen? We have it in our power today to prevent this, or at least to make a valiant attempt to prevent it. Over the past couple of decades, weather prediction has become less of an art and more of a science, thanks to things like Doppler radar. I sit here on the outskirts of NYC, and as with other residents of the great megalopolis, NONE of these storms have come as a surprise to me: they have ALL been predicted days, if not weeks in advance by the meterologists: they know WHEN the snow is coming, WHERE it will hit, and HOW MUCH snow it will dump in each locality.

Why don't we do what the Chinese did for the 2008 Beijing Olympics -- the government needs to start SEEDING THE CLOUDS to cause the skies to dump all this frozen precipitation either out in emptier Midwestern states or over deep Southern states where it would fall mostly as rain, and thereby save the American economy countless billions of dollars. Surely, with the economy suffering as it is today, anything we can do to minimize weather-related costs would be of value.

This is something that "Big Government" CAN do. We do have such a thing called the United States Air Force. Training/practice runs are sent up all the time. Why not make some of them useful? With today's metorological predictive ability, we have more than enough time to send up cloud seeding missions at least a week or two before these major snow events hit the productive heart of the nation.

Finally, some might say that cloud seeding's success is as of yet not entirely proven, but the Chinese certainly believe in it. Don't you think we could at least TRY? Also, others might think that we just don't do cloud seeding in the country -- but we do! At least according to Wikipedia,

"In the United States, cloud seeding is used to increase precipitation in areas experiencing drought, to reduce the size of hailstones that form in thunderstorms, and to reduce the amount of fog in and around airports. Cloud seeding is also occasionally used by major ski resorts to induce snowfall. Eleven western states and one Canadian province (Alberta) have ongoing weather modification operational programs" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding#Modern_uses)

[smalll]

1. So I notice the main news-of-the-hour is a possible Pacific tsunami -- that, we can't prevent.

These paralyzing snowstorms? We can!

[Edweird]

2. Hm. Maybe you want to rethink that.

"Well, the Chinese are doing it" is a tad short sighted. The Chinese are doing a LOT of things that could be fairly characterized as terrible ideas.

[smalll]

4. Yes, but as I discovered (and posted) - we're doing it too! 11 Western states have seeding programs

/nt.

[CreekDog]

3. If you believe what you wrote, you aren't going to believe me when I tell you otherwise

criminy.

i'll make one comment for now:

seeding clouds around Beijing is not even on the same scale as seeding clouds to make Northeast snow fall in the Midwest.

[smalll]

5. It would be a larger-scale project, but I have to think it would be well worth it, dollar for dollar

and also, MOST of the time, we would not be burdening more empty Midwestern states with extra snow (I know they get more than their fair share already) -- most of the time, these storms approach us up from the South -- most of the time, we would just be dumping rain on southern states.

[On the Road]

6. Mark Twain Would Agree with You:

"Everybody always talks about the weather, but nobody ever does anything about it."

[last1standing]

7. Yeah. Who cares about the midwest and the south, anyway.

So what if even more snowfall in the midwest (and we already get a lot) would create further havoc on our roads, cause greater strain on limited funds for removal, endanger millions of people, cripple what's left of our industry and be the cause of massive floods in the spring.

And so what if thousands are drowned in southern rainstorms while soil is eroded and floods contribute untold damage. What's another Katrina or two? They vote republican in the south, anyway.

Providing for your comfort and uninterrupted business in NYC is well worth the destruction life, property, industry and environment caused by manipulating nature on a grand scale.

Is there anything else we peasants can do for the superior beings on the coast?

[pintobean]

20. We should retain

all of the melted snow. When they're in drought, and accusing us of stealing their water, we can tell them to come get it. It only makes sense, relatively speaking.

[AngryAmish]

8. You make it snow in Indiana. Then when Jake wrecks his GTO in the snow, he sues you.

Massive litigation nightmare.

[smalll]

11. Could he sue? Not an attorney here, but what about "sovereign immunity?"

("The King can do no wrong.")

And also, as I've said above, MOST of the time, these wintry disasters come up to the megalopolis from the South rather than directly from the West -- we could force the clouds to dump their preciptation as relatively harmless rain in states like the Carolinas and Georgia before it gets here.

[MattBaggins]

19. It's not nice to mess with mother nature

That snow is supposed to fall in the Northeast. How about if we let Ecologists, Meteorologists and Engineers handle ideas like this instead of arm chair scientists.

[AngryAmish]

24. They waive it in many statutes

Federal Tort Claims Act. Look it up.

[Jennicut]

9. I think we in the Northeast (I am from CT) know how to deal with snow. The south? Not so good.

We have plows ready and they clear it really fast these days. Yes, we get pounded by at least 1 to 3 big storms a year. But it wouldn't be New England for me without the snow.

[PJPhreak]

10. Concidering....

1.That all the Nor'easters you got this year draw their moisture from the Atlantic Ocean right at YOUR doorstep,seeding the clouds over Kansas,Missouri,Tenn,Kentucky,Ohio ect would'nt help at all.

2.My yard is a muddy mess as it is...Ya'll can Keep all that moisture

[walldude]

12. Let me see if I have this straight...

You want to attempt to control the weather because you got a little snow? Gimme a fucking break. As I watch Haiti and Chili and Afghanistan, and Iraq, and Africa, I can imagine why we are a hated country. A couple feet of snow and a couple days without power and there are people who want to spend millions to try to control the weather. How about we fucking deal with the snow and send the money where it's really needed.

[walldude]

13. Let me see if I have this straight...

You want to attempt to control the weather because you got a little snow? Gimme a fucking break. As I watch Haiti and Chili and Afghanistan, and Iraq, and Africa, I can imagine why we are a hated country. A couple feet of snow and a couple days without power and there are people who want to spend millions to try to control the weather. How about we fucking deal with the snow and send the money where it's really needed.


Of course maybe it's just me, after reading 3 threads on DU I have already had enough of this place today and I probably have an attitude,

[smalll]

15. That's OK -- it's just that as the megalopolis of the Northeast is not only so populated, but also

so (relatively) rich that these kind of predicted and avoidable snow disasters are so expensive! And yes, places like Haiti and Afghanistan are a lot poorer than we are, but as we all know, the U.S. economy is in such a delicate state right now that the tens if not hundreds of billions that could be saved by well-placed cloud seeding would matter so much!

[Cal Carpenter]

28. You're kidding, right?

Save all the rich people in the east coast cities and dump the snow in the midwest where there are less people and they're poor anyway so who cares.

Regardless of the impossibility of your plan, the elitist sounding attitude you have is kind of disgusting.

Wonder how the rich NY stock broker will feel when Grandma's roof in Indiana collapses from the weight of the snow and crushes her in her sleep. At least he made it to work on time.

Charming :eyes:

[anonymous171]

14. LOL I would love to see the East Coast waste all of its money on this

Seriously, do it.

[Political Heretic]

16. I have a better idea. How about our government stop being morons and spend money on INFRASTRUCTURE

So that a little snow isn't suddenly crippling to major metropolitan areas that get snow every fucking year.

I swear, its embarrassing to be an America.

"OH NOES! IT SNOWED! WE R HELPLESS!!"

Infrastructure.

Infrastructure.

Infrastructure.

[smalll]

18. Sure, we get snow every year. But the AMOUNT of snow this year has been unconscionable!

Again, a RECORD amount of monthly snow in NYC!

Also, Snowmaggedon delivered TWO FEET of snow to the Philadelphia area -- they NEVER get that much at once. There's no way infrastructure planning could efficiently deal with this rare disaster.

[cherokeeprogressive]

All that water has weight. The weight you want to drop on the midwestern states will just cause

earthquakes. Seriously. I read it on another DU thread.

[TommyO]

17. And when the Northeast is suffering major droughts because of lack of snowfall

what then?

The whole idea is to stop messing with the environment, not further muck it up.

[smalll]

22. According to nyc.gov,

the NYC water supply system (based largely on reservoirs in the Catskills) is currently at 83.2% capacity; normally as of this date it is at 89.9% capacity. That's not a major deficit. http://nyc.gov/html/dep/html/drinking_water/maplevels_wide.shtml

If I remember correctly, the capacity usually approaches 100% in the spring. It's just not an issue.

[TommyO]

23. And without snow, it would be an issue

Not to mention that NYC is not the entire Northeast Corridor.

Again, why muck up the environment any more?

[pipi_k]

26. Those of us in rural areas who use springs or wells

for our household water depend on rainfall and snowmelt.

Like someone up above me said...NYC isn't the entirety of the Northeast corridor.

[Catshrink]

21. It's all Al Gore's fault.

Makes about as much sense.

[pipi_k]

25. One of the worst beliefs ever is the belief

that we can, or should, play God in many areas.


Despite the fact that this or that country is "doing it", we can't ever know what the ultimate results will be from messing with Nature.


And that goes for everything from bringing non-native species into different environments to trying to change the weather patterns.

Haven't we done enough unintentional damage already?

[Imajika]

27. This could be one of the dumbest posts...

...I've ever read on DU in all the years I've been here.

We do NOT have it in power to prevent snowstorms, nor could a valiant effort make even the slightest bit of difference. Perhaps you are watching too many low budget SyFy flicks?

Maybe you were just joking or something...

[smalll]

31. It would be a larger-scale project than Beijing was, but we could do it, and I imagine the benefit

for the economy as a whole would far outweigh the costs of doing it. Seriously, the Air Force flies all over the country on a regular basis. How much would it cost to rig up some cloud-seeding aparatus to the aircraft?

Plus, I am not advocating making it never snow in DC-NYC-Boston: THIS winter, and three specific events are what I'm talking about. We had had some snow here for sure, regular amounts, this winter. I remember particularly it snowed quite heavily the weekend before Christmas up in NYC, and Philly area had a lot too that time - a lot. But all in all somewhat managable as winters go. Then came Snowmageddon -- 2 feet plus around DC and Philly. Crippling, paralyzing. We escaped it in NYC -- as WE KNEW WE WOULD -- as the weathermen gave us a nice cut-off line in their predictions, which kind of made Manhattan, NY the point at which where no snow would really fall.

But then came Son of Snomaggeddon, which whomped the Mid-Atlantic again, at least Philly if not DC this time, and we in NYC got it - as we were told it would. Then came the Snowicane. We KNEW these monsters were coming -- heck, the press scribblers had the time to come up with these NAMES for them all well before they landed -- just THREE MAJOR MISSIONS up in the air to seed these things out earlier, and it could be done!

Look, the military gets together for a few days at a time to play war games for preparation/practice. Why not make this a "war game?"

America can still be the place where the impossible is merely the unprecedented. Even they sky's not the limit. The economy needs it. PLUS, if you think about it, it would have been a major morale-boost for us all -- the government active and victorious, almost FDR-like in a way, at least a Berlin Airlift kind of overtone.

[Imajika]

33. No..

Just no. These are massive storms. Massive. You could not accomplish anything like what you are proposing with even the entire worlds fleet of aircraft taking part in a cloud seeding operation.

These storms are just far too big, well beyond our ability to have any effect on.

I live in the DC area by the way, so I sympathize with you. Where I am we had 2 feet just before Christmas, 2 feet during the first Feb storm and another 1 foot and absolute blizzard conditions 3 days after that. That isn't even counting the other 6 and 7 inch storms we've had scattered throughout this winter.

We dodged a bullet this time. I am so ready for Spring. Sadly, the long range forecast seem to have another snowstorm aiming right for DC by midweek. Hope it rains instead.

[KillCapitalism]

29. This can't be prevented.

This is the effect of man made climate change.

Think this winter is a fluke or an anomaly? Think again.

Take a look at this article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34242705/?GT1=43001

This is what could be happening and if so we're fucked. Places like D.C., Chicago, and New York will be buried by snow year round. Florida will start to experience very harsh winters.

Brazil or really anywhere within 10 or 15* of the equator should be safe.

I'm no weather expert, but this is the most extreme winter most of us have seen in our lifetimes.

[pipi_k]

30. Actually it could be prevented...

if all 300+ million of us went outside and blew real hard in the direction the storm is coming from, diverting it to, say, Canada or something.

The question is...would we want to?





PS...

---> :7

[Imajika]

32. No, it probably isn't...

"This is the effect of man made climate change."

There is absolutely no certainty that this is happening or that it even might be. AGW yes, the science is pretty clear that there is global warming and that humans are contributing to it. But as to whether ANY weather events we see are directly related to it? No, we just don't know how much AGW contributes to any of them.

Some theorize that man made climate change "may" be making storms slightly stronger, and that over a long period of time the difference in strength would be measurable. Even if that is true, which it may or may not be, it isn't as if these snowstorms would not have happened. Some of them may, perhaps, be slightly more powerful due to man made global warming. We really just don't know enough about climate, nor have we accurate records dating far enough in the past to really know.

After Katrina the people who wish to assign every bad weather event to global warming claimed we'd have far more active hurricane seasons (Atlantic, Gulf) with more powerful storms, it simply has not happened. In fact, the people whom made those claims look absolutely silly now considering we have seen less active hurricane seasons (Atlantic, Gulf) and weaker tropical events.

Blaming a bad winter or some bad weather events on AGW is silly and counterproductive. We can't very well laugh at the skeptics for claiming AGW doesn't exist because some place the science predicted would warm has a few cold winters, if at the same time we are running around blaming a snowy winter on AGW.