Took Bipolar Friend to Free Clinic.Fundie Dr tried faith healing.

[rhino47]

I drove a friend that lost his insurance to a free clinic tonight.He is deep in the depressive state.
Crying for hours,not sleeping well,even the simplest tasks seem too much for him.
When the doc came in to see him the first words out of his mouth was "Have you been saved?" My friend and I looked at each other like WTF not catching the meaning at first.Doc then said my friend was depressed because he hasnt the faith to live his life properly.He then told him the footprints in the sand crap.He then prayed over him and left.We were stunned.I went out into the hall to ask about perhaps a ssri or something to help his depression.The doc looked at me like I was satan. He said depression was not a disease but a lack of faith.He then went back in to my friend and asked him to
come to his church so they could hold a prayer circle for him.My friend is unable to even drive at this point due to his GAD (generalized anxiety disorder).The doc said he could pick him up.
It was all so stunningly creepy and sad.I am now at his house with my kids to make sure he makes it through the night.I really want to call the director of the clinic and raise holy hell (pardon the pun) but this is the first time I have taken someone there that the care was not caring,loving and competent.I think this docs whole reason for volunteering there is to get more people for his church.

[Garbo 2004]

1. If the doc has a license also report him to his state licensing board. nt

[dave29]

63. seconded, he was not practicing medicine

. Standard of care not met.

[Mojambo]

2. Is that clinic funded by the state?

Because if it is that "doctor" should be fucking fired.

[cliffordu]

3. Report that quack to whatever medical board would be involved.

That's just disgusting.

[Warpy]

4. You need to call and report it and follow up with a letter of complaint

Write the facts down just as you've written them here.

Any doctor who doesn't write a scrip for someone with known bipolar disease needs to have his license taken. If you wanted witch doctoring, you'd have found a church, not a medical clinic.

This is intolerable. I hope your friend makes it and you need to return to that clinic tomorrow and hope the fraud isn't there. If he is, RAISE HELL, BE LOUD. He has no business being anywhere around sick people.

[rhino47]

6. My friend is on SSD for bipolar

He just got it and has to wait two years before he can get on medicare.

[REP]

23. Not necessarily; the date of the disability can be backdated

The date he became disabled is not the same as the file date or the date of granting SSD. If his dx predates his file date - and there's documentation - the Medicare eligibilty date can be adjusted. I had this done for me.

[rhino47]

27. Thanks so much.I will try that for him REP.

[Maraya1969]

35. He sould be able to get a welfare type of help if he has no money.

That would pay for clinics.

[Warpy]

37. Most states have mental health outreach centers of some sort

Bipolar disease is potentially life threatening. You need to consult the phone book and start calling around to get him some help. The ER will have to do if nothing else is forthcoming because this is an emergency situation. The ER might be able to get him stabilized until he can get an appointment at a state mental health clinic.

Good luck to both of you. He's lucky to have a friend who will stand up for him.

[mudplanet]

42. Depending on which state he is in, Medicade should kick in immediately.

And Medicaid, in most cases, is better than Medicare.

[Ignis]

61. "He said depression was not a disease but a lack of faith."

I agree strongly with Warpy. Someone needs to yank this fucker's license.

[glinda]

5. Do not hesitate. Report him. He could seriously hurt someone.

[ohheckyeah]

7. I think you should call the director.

That's not health care. He might as well have done a voodoo dance. What that doc did is criminal.

[2Design]

8. some things to research

I am not bipolar so don't know what specific would help but this might be a place to start searching

Herbs

5-htp helps with serotonin production

B-complex can help too

look both up on Wikipedia and then search from there.

I have used both of these with success for me.

[rhino47]

11. Thank you so much for the advice 2Design

It sounds so much better then antidepressants.

[Warpy]

19. Unfortunately, bipolar disease is a serious problem with

basic brain chemistry and herbs and vitamins won't do anything for it.

What's needed is a return trip to that clinic to find someone with an actual medical education and if that isn't going to work, an ER will have to do.

The guy needs to get on the appropriate medication ASAP, whether lithium carbonate, valproic acid, or some of the newer drugs.

The quack needs his ass out of that clinic, pronto.

[EFerrari]

24. Yep. What you said, Warpy. n/t

[Robyn66]

54. I am sure you mean well

but I am bi-polar and I know that you can't mess around with this illness. Anything like St, John's Wort, can mess you up even more and send you off the edge. Bi polar disorder is a potentialy fatal disease due to the high suicide rate. You MUST have professional help with real medicine.

[2Design]

72. I am sure you meant well too - she wasn't getting any direction other than sue or

attack the doctor - I offered what I know - I never professed to be a doctor or professional - I suggested searching for her answers online - in doing her research I am sure she would find out more on bipolar

Those who just tell you the doctor was wrong therefore attack wasn't helping

[bobbolink]

9. Isn't that precious. Using a free clinic to proselytize .

:wtf:

"was not caring,loving and competent."

You're not too likely to find that among therapists of any stripe anymore. Its all confrontation and pills, now.

Caring and loving doesn't pay the bills.

[mudplanet]

44. I'm calling BS on this. Psychiatrists, for the most part, aren't therapists and

at least half of therapists give a damn or they wouldn't be doing what they do. Then there's the competency factor, and the fact that it's not an exact science.

I would have to say that the most appropriate reaction to the fundie's behavior would probably be a punch in the nose. There are assholes in all professions and this one should be screened for them.

In order to get a prescription for a psychoactive drug an individual must be properly assessed and diagnosed.

If this individual was diagnosed as Bipolar he should be under the care of a psychiatrist.

Most clinics require an assessment first, which usually takes up to two hours and may or may not be with a psychiatrist (sometimes a counselor, social worker, or psychologist will conduct an assessment). If a clinic is set up well, they may get your friend on drug treatment that day, but that would be unusual.

If your friend was diagnosed as Bipolar and then received SSDI or SSI then he could take his paperwork to a half decent MD and get a short term prescription for medication, which will probably include lithium and may include an SSRI and possibly additional drugs. The MD will want assurance that your friend is going to be seeing a psychiatrist soon, and will require immediate blood work, as lithium is potentially fatal and blood serum levels must be monitored. But you can't get high on lithium or SSRIs so it's highly unlikely that your friend is engaging in drug seeking behavior, which is one of their greatest fears.


If this does not get you the needed drug treatment, I'm going to make a suggestion based upon the fact that you report that you had to stay overnight with your friend. Bipolar is an illness that is characterized by extreme swings in mood, from mania to depression. In the manic phase the individual may become psychotic and be a danger to himself and others. In the depressive phase the individual may become suicidal. You should be particularly concerned about the depressive phase of the illness, i.e., you should monitor your friend's suicidal ideation. If you are concerned that your friend is suicidal:


take your friend to the emergency room and have him report that he is suicidal. They will try to assess his level of danger and cut him loose, but if he has the intention and the means (a plan) and he sticks to his story that he's going to kill himself, they will admit him to a psych ward somewhere, and hold him for at least two days but probably for about a week. During this time they should be able to arrange to have him see a psychiatrist and begin to receive drug treatment. I hate to say it but sometimes this is the only way a person can get to see a psychiatrist in the short term.

The best possible scenario is that they would hospitalize him in the local or state psychiatric hospital (these go under the euphemism of "behavioral health centers" nowadays) for a few weeks, during which time he would be thoroughly assessed, be put on the correct drug treatment, and leave the hospital with an established psychiatrist. But it's difficult to get the health system to do this. Their whole mandate is to keep people out of the hospital.

Once again, how well this would work depends entirely on where your friend is. Doing this in a big city would render a different result than in a small town, and states vary in how well they are set up to respond to this type of situation.

Under no circumstances should he call the police in a small town at night and report that he is going to kill himself. This will earn him a night stripped naked in a small concrete room smeared with feces, and if he wasn't suicidal before that he would be after.

[bobbolink]

60. Politicians are politicians because they ngive a damn, or they wouldn't be doing what they do.

[mudplanet]

67. Ok. You're right. I got into social work for the money.

[bobbolink]

69. Snide comments add nothing.

[renate]

70. very useful information

How nice of you to spend all that time sharing your expertise! :hug: It's one of the many reasons I love DU--people looking out for each other.

I would never have guessed about what you said about what would happen if he threatened to kill himself in a small town. That is horrible.

[mudplanet]

71. Small town police forces just aren't trained and don't have the resources

to deal with the mentally ill.

[CC]

10. You need to file a complaint

with every board you can find in you city/county/state along with the free clinic. Write everything down now and all the times so you remember everything. Raise hell. Maybe find a local mental health advocacy group to 1, help you find your friend some real help and 2 alert them to this dangerous doctor. ACLU might be interested too. If that doctor is failing your friend who had a reliable witness with him what is he doing to those that come in alone, exorcisms?

[prolesunited]

13. File a complaint

If a person goes there without a friend like you, imagine the consequences.

[mopinko]

59. justifiable homicide is what

jumps to my mind.

[virgogal]

12. That is one of the strangest stories I have ever heard. He should

be reported,and quickly,before he does any more harm.

I wish your friend well.

[rhino47]

15. Believe me it was utterly surreal virgogal.

I was gobsmacked.I felt so angry that all they gave him was not a referral but a day pass to the YMCA.

[virgogal]

22. God almighty! I come from a family where depression is quite

familiar (there was one suicide) and my heart bleeds for your friend.

I hope he finds the help he needs,and is very lucky to have someone like you in his life.

Good luck !

[Shell Beau]

14. That is unreal. That is beyond inappropriate.

I live in the Bible belt, and I can't imagine that happening anywhere around here. That doctor should be reported ASAP.

[madrchsod]

16. that really is bad...

fundy religion and medicine is`t a good mix. fortunately their are far more doctors who know the difference between practicing medicine and practicing their faith.

i`ve been through what you are going through and the best medicine for your friend is you. call the clinic tomorrow and tell them what happened.

[EFerrari]

17. Sending good vibes to you, rhino.

If he manages to get some sleep, maybe then you could call someone. If you need help making calls in the a.m., pm me.

That's just so wrong on so many levels.

If you do find a doc who provides appropriate care, remember ssris take about 10- 14 days to kick in fully. There seems to be a benefit after 24, 48, 72 but it takes a little while for the full benefit.

:grouphug:

[DebbieCDC]

18. Absolutely you should report this

[Schema Thing]

20. I have a friend with PTSD from abuse as a child

She told me today that she made an appointment with a free therapist at "Gateway Biblical Counseling".

It's hard to get the full story from her, so I'm a little confused as to how this became available to her in the first place. As far as I knew, she was dealing with the medicaid system, and this therapist was a referral from them. Maybe not, but that seems to leave the county medical system as her refer-er, afaik.

This should be interesting, as she and I both are ex-members of a Christian Cult.


This does not sound to me like it will end well. She's highly resistant to therapy as she has personality disorders overlaying her PTSD (and which for the most part, she doesn't acknowledge)

[elleng]

21. I posted this recently.

My daughter had not seen the doc for some years, and has been unable to sleep well, and moody, and subject to illnesses.

I thought it was probably because she hasn't used thyroid meds for years, tho diagnosed with Hashimoto's disease. I gave her some of my thyroid meds to help until she could see the doc, and she felt much better. Surprising us, her doc suggested she use Rhodiola and Melatonin instead of a prescription, and she's been using such for about a week.

She feels wonderful! Had the best conversation with her today! She says EVERYONE should use this stuff! So I want to pass it on here. I'm thinking of asking MY doc what she'd think if I tried to use it instead of effexor for depression.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodiola_rosea

Good luck to you and your friend, rhino.

[timeforpeace]

25. Fundie doctors have to work off their med school tuition in free clinics?

[Walk away]

26. Any doctor can prescribe for your friend. It sounds like he needs to get...

on meds and be monitored asap. Do you have a doctor who can see him for a reduced fee? Someone local who will give him a break. Bi-polar disorder is serious business. Maybe if you call the clinic they will assign him to someone else. The important thing is to get him to a real doctor as soon as you can.

[proudohioan]

28. That is truly creepy...

and totally unprofessional and uncalled for.

WTF?????

:wtf:

[TommyO]

29. Report the bastard

losing his license is the very minimum of what he deserves.

[gmoney]

30. You get what you pay for?

Might be the whole MO of the clinic?

[Maru Kitteh]

31. Report him. Scream high and loud. He should have his license pulled.

and somebody needs to sue the shit out of him too. I am never one to jump on the lawsuit bandwagon but this is just the kind of situation where a big fat lawsuit with a team of totally crooked, ruthless, bloodthirsty lawyers is just the right fit.

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. Do _not_ let that doc near your friend again. I hope he hasn't got all his

contact info. If he does try to reach him or show up at his place, show him the door and tell him not to come back! (And do make a complaint to the clinic director, no matter what.) I'm bipolar and I am _deeply_ offended by anyone who suggests that mental illness has anything to do with a lack of faith or moral or character issues. (Or being possessed!!) I will go off on them if they even try to suggest it.

Please tell your friend to hang in there. I know where he's at right now. :hug: And bless you for being there for him all the way! :hug:

[Hannah Bell]

33. our new national health care plan! free clinics and faith healing.

[RagAss]

49. BINGO.....Thread Over !

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maraya1969]

34. Please do raise Holy Hell about this freak of a man who calls himself a doctor!

This is just sickening. Is there a hospital around that you can take you friend to? They can just keep him a few days and get his meds straight basically while he rests. I've done it and it really is no big deal. And there are plenty of people with no money at mental health care facilities. Who can work?

I have bipolar and it needs to be treated. You are a really good friend and he lucky to have you. I also have a panic disorder and when you combine the 2, (they call it a mixed state) things can be horrible.

[MountainLaurel]

36. Welcome to faith-based social services!

:puke:

[Cal Carpenter]

53. That's rather unfair

I understand your point, but there are loads of really good social service organizations that are connected to churches or are otherwise 'faith-based', to use your term. I could name a dozen local orgs in my area off the top of my head including free meal programs, free food pantries and, yes, medical clinics.

One completely inappropriate fundie doctor does not negate the incredible work these organizations do.

[MountainLaurel]

55. True, but keep in mind

That under the new regulations, these groups don't have to abide by the same rules for licensure, expertise, financial management, grantee reporting, or professional standards. Nor do they compete against more qualified secular organizations that do have to abide by these rules. And that doesn't even get into issues of proselytizing in services, discrimination, etc. So, the likelihood of getting a dud is much higher.

[Cal Carpenter]

56. Can you please provide a link to these regulations?

What you say is completely counter my knowledge and experience in this area. Particularly that secular groups aren't competing for the same funds, or that grant reporting is waived or different or whatever you are implying. Or even that proselytizing or discrimination is allowed.

Thanks.

[MountainLaurel]

62. Most of it comes from internal knowledge

From federal grant-providing agencies and the instructions grant reviewers and grant managers were and are given. This includes the impressions of a researcher friend who reviewed the impact of faith-based grantees in one particular subject area: He was appalled by the money thrown at organizations that had no business receiving grants, and this was someone who made a career working for Catholic Charities. However, the Government Accounting Office as well as some other research organizations have issued reports noting their concern about oversight of the program. I don't have a lot of time to research the issue, but here's one example of the loosening of standards for faith-based enterprises, from the Texas initiative (from the Shrub's time as governor) upon which the federal version is based.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Lessons+from+the+Texas+faith-based+initiative-a0101261136

This is a round-up of articles on the topic:

http://old.mediatransparency.org/issue.php?issueID=3

Also, there are book by David Kuo (from the federal office of faith-based programs) and others on the subject/

[Cal Carpenter]

64. I'm not asking you to research the issue

Just asking you to back up this claim:
"...under the new regulations, these groups don't have to abide by the same rules for licensure, expertise, financial management, grantee reporting, or professional standards. Nor do they compete against more qualified secular organizations that do have to abide by these rules. And that doesn't even get into issues of proselytizing in services, discrimination, etc.

The links you provided don't do it, nor does the anecdote about your researcher friend. What federal regulations are you talking about - if they exist, they should be easy to find, right? I work with several faith-based organizations who struggle with overwhelming gov't grant application processes and reporting requirements and I'm sure they'd be thrilled to access this money that the feds are just throwing around with little accountability.

It's not like nonprofits that aren't faith-based never get busted for being run poorly, btw.

[Hissyspit]

38. He is what we call a quack.

He is a quack.

[old mark]

39. If this guy is a real doctor, he may be in line for a lawsuit, too - the idea that

depression is somehow related to "religion" and his apparent refusal to treat your friend's condition medically certainly seems like malpractice to me - report him but certainly call a lawyer, too - get this dangerous man off the street. He is not practicing medicine - he is practicing voodoo, and I mean no disrespect to voodoo.

mark

[notadmblnd]

40. I had symptoms much like your friends

my Dr told me it was a serotonin deficiency and prescribed Paxil for me. Within a week I was feeling much better. I don't seem to need to take it every day now, but if I skip a day or 3, I notice the symptoms come back.

I hope your friend gets the real medical help he needs. I would complain to anyone who will listen, about the Dr.

[upi402]

41. Wife went to gyno, office had cricifixes and Bible sayings all over the office

Creepy place, creepy Doc. My wife is buddhist and I'm neither. And 'neither' is the exact number of people that had confidence in the fundie Dr in the car speeding away from that office.

[Imagevision]

43. This sounds like a GOP healthcare solution...

[raccoon]

45. Do call and raise holy hell! What a dipshit this Dr. is. Recd. nt

[piratefish08]

46. Report the quack!

[Jennicut]

47. Yes, let us pray the depression away! BS. I have been on SSRI's for 14 years

since I was 20. No amount of praying is going to change chemicals in your brain.

[Odin2005]

48. Report this bastard NOW!

:grr:

[northernlights]

50. report him to your state medical board and to the AMA

If the state board won't deal with it, presumably the AMA will.

And thank you for being such a wonderful friend. There needs to be more like you out there. :hug:

[RainDog]

51. this so-called doctor is a danger to others

and THIS is why faith-based BULLSHIT has no place in our govt.

[WeDidIt]

52. That is not a doctor, that's a quack.

Get his license pulled, if he even has a license.

[BigErnMcCracken]

57. Cobra Venom

I hear that also works wonders.

[seeinfweggos]

58. complete with the footprints in the sand, huh?

that is one fucked up story. you should contact the clinic director. he may be a freak too but it is worth a try. in fact you ought to report the asshole to whatever board licenses doctors in your state.

[niyad]

65. k and r--report that quack to everyone you can think of. and, although it won't do any good--if you

know the name of his church--call the senior pastor or whatever--better yet, call his bishop, raise holy hell (pun intended) and say that this bs is going to hit the local media--as well as the senior organization.

your friend is very lucky in you. hoping for the best, sending good thoughts your way for your friend--and for you.

[Enthusiast]

66. Never put your faith

in anything "fundamentalist" Christian. NEVER

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. Well at least the price was right.

:crazy:

[rhino47]

73. Update.

I called my primary care physician earlier today.They got my friend an appointment one hour later.I took his ssd disability report and list of his prior meds.She gave him samples of Prestiq and a prescription for
klonopin (which I guess is for his generalized anxiety disorder).She also referred him to a psychiatrist that has a sliding fee.Her office even made the appointment for him.She charged me 25.00.She also told me if he gets worse before he gets in to see the psychiatrist to call her through the hospital switchboard.I can not stress how kind she was.Nor can I say how relieved I am that he got help.

[Catshrink]

74. Thanks for the update.

I'm glad you were able to get your friend some help and that your doc is so compassionate. That fundie whackjob should lose his license.

:grouphug:

[Cerridwen]

75. I'll add my thanks for the update.

I've looked a couple of times today and was hoping all went well.

I'll also chime in with report the quack. I've had to deal with a few of those while taking my mom around to her various med. appts. It's getting old but I've not experienced anything like what you and your friend did.

BTW, you're a good friend!

:yourock:

[RainDog]

76. thank you for the update

my ex is bipolar.

how many klonopin did the doc give your friend? if he is unstable and considering suicide, he should not have access to enough to them to kill himself. hopefully the doctor did not prescribe enough for this to happen (that was the case with my ex in the past... he had to go back more often so that he couldn't use his medicine (again) to try to kill himself.)

anyway, you might want to talk to the doc about doling them out till your friend is better.

there's a good book called "feeling good" by burns that is useful for people with bipolar, depression, trauma, etc. The doc goes through the various patterns of thought that tend to recur in depressed people and offers logical responses to them that people can learn to call upon for themselves when all or nothing thinking is predominant.

if your friend is bipolar, some people find that putting someone on ssri meds w/o a mood stabilizer, or instead of one, may trigger an episode of mania... which is sometimes manifested as severe irritabilty, etc. Just a heads up cause it always helps to learn from the experience of others if we can. also, people are more likely to try to kill themselves in a manic state, iirc. or be more successful at it. I don't know the medicine you mentioned, but just thought I would mention the stats I was told way back when.

Even if your friend is feeling shitty, put on a dvd of something like Best In Show or some other movie that your friend thinks is funny when times are good.. or a funny one you want to share.

it helps, even when people cannot immediately respond with any humor.

best of luck. I didn't respond on that "is suicide okay" thread because my experience was such that the person was glad he didn't kill himself. There was no way I could let the man I married kill himself in a moment of emotional madness.

[rhino47]

83. She gave him 60 klonopin but I have them and the prestiq

I give them to him when its time for him to take them.I have been through this before with my sister.
Good advice.I put on holy grail for him.Noone can resist Monty Python.

[gvstn]

85. klonopin is not that strong...

It is slightly habit forming but not too dangerous as far as harming yourself. I used to take about 6-10 a day for a short time.

You are a very conscientious and good friend!

O/T Klonopin is great for making a hangover disappear. It never did too much for me for anxiety but a single pill worked like magic if I ever over indulged. Never understood the connection but that was one prescription that remained in the medicine cabinet until empty.

[RainDog]

86. laughter is good

if you can get the person to go outside with you (don't call it a walk, that might sound too overwhelming*) that would be good too.

*as in... let's go outside. hey, come down here with me to look at that (fill in the blank.) and on from there.

make SURE you take care of yourself too.

chronic stress from being a caretaker for the mentally ill can make you sick too. I know this from experience.

[EFerrari]

77. Omg, your firend is very, very lucky!

Such good news. I hope things are calming down a little, rhino.

Excellent job you did there. :hug:

[Tailormyst]

79. You have a very nice doctor

And YOU are a very good friend.

[prolesunited]

80. You are a good friend and have a caring doctor

Maybe an LTE is in order (without your friend's name, of course) about you experience.

[Tailormyst]

78. Please report this person to your state board.

They should never be allowed near another patient again.

[kestrel91316]

81. Pure quackery. He needs his medical license REVOKED.

[Cetacea]

84. "Believe!!! I can make you walk without that chair!"

Robin Williams, circa 1980s

Report the bastard.