This Austin nut job just goes to show there is no recovery

[TwixVoy]

First let me say the guy in Austin was a nut job. There is no excuse for acts like this.

I think, however, this does show that there are a LOT of financially desperate people out there. I have been posting for months that we would see people start to snap. If you read this guys suicide note it is full of complaints about the bail out, big business stealing from people, the .com bust, S&L crisis, etc. He even talks about the fact we have no real healthcare and states ""Now, when the wealthy f--- up, the poor get to die for the mistakes ... isn't that a clever, tidy solution," This was CLEARLY a recession motivated crime/act of civil unrest.

The media is reporting it was an "IRS grudge", but if you actually read his note it is 95% "shitty economy" based. Why they are selecting ONE paragraph of this letter and ignoring the rest simply shows the powers that be don't want to acknowledge the problem.

Before the select few DUers who seem to follow me around jump on me like usual (talking about their great jobs, people "they know" who just got great jobs, etc) people need to look out the window at OTHERS. Just because you have not been impacted by this recession does NOT mean that millions of others have not been.

In my city I see more homeless than I ever have in the past 30 years. They are literally on almost EVERY street corner.

We continue to bleed jobs.

When people can't pay their bills, lose their home, and lose everything else they go nuts. It's a simple FACT that can be seen time and time again throughout history.

WE NEED JOBS. Real jobs. Not minimum wage, part time, no health insurance, "service" jobs. We need our MANUFACTURING BACK! Our entire economy can not be based on service sector jobs and consumption on CREDIT.

There are still at least some white collar jobs for those with bachelors and higher degrees. (though those are going away too...) But at least 50% of the population has no college degree, and the reality is a large number of the population are not fit or otherwise able to get one for various reasons. What about those people? The manufacturing and other middle class jobs they used to hold are gone and they are not coming back.

Congress needs to start addressing this with *real* solutions.

And one other thing - this is NOT about politics. This is a problem that has been building in our nation for decades under both parties. We have serious systemic problems that need to be addressed.

[Donnachaidh]

1. +10000 k&r. n/t

[OhioChick]

2. Agreed. n/t

[slackmaster]

3. No, it doesn't show anything

K&U

:kick:

[TwixVoy]

5. Wake the fuck up - this guy will not be the last

If we don't start working and accepting these problems NOW we are only going to see more people lose everything. More people will snap.

People with your "I've got mine so screw everyone else" attitude are contributing to the problem.

[Ikonoklast]

43. Joe Stack did most of the harm done, and did it to himself.

He refused to accept that things change, and refused to change along with them.

Instead he blamed the rest of the world for what was essentially his refusal to accept reality, and to change in order to adapt to the new realities and business environment.

Oh, and one more thing...yes, not everyone is a winner at life, but when you deliberately and repeatedly choose a losing strategy, your odds go waaaay down.

[KittyWampus]

4. Please reconsider using this tragedy as an opportunity for ax-grinding.

[Uzybone]

10. Thank you.

Why do people always have to attach their own gripes to tragedies? This guy would have gone nuts if unemployment was 2% or 30%.

[muffin1]

6. It feels like we're just circling the drain. n/t

[MineralMan]

7. This thread just goes to show that there is no incident so

horrible that will not be exploited by someone's pet issue screed.

Please don't do that. This had nothing to do with jobs. It was some weird tax evader who went over the edge. If you want to write about jobs, just write about them.

[Spazito]

8. He was a rabid anti-tax advocate nutcase...

who cheated the system, got caught, blamed everyone and everything but himself for his problems and decided to end it all by trying to take out as many people as he could while doing it.

He is NOT an example of those who are financially desperate due to the economic conditions, he is, in reality, the antithesis of them, imo.

[TwixVoy]

9. Did you read the letter?

[NoFace]

21. Um, where did he crash his plane again? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Sounds pretty clear cut to me.
Not sure why conservatives are trying to turn him into some martyr against Obama's stimulus.


" Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let's try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well."
How much clearer can the man get?

[Spazito]

26. I did and that is why I posted what I did...

Did you miss the anti-tax thread throughout the screed beginning with this:

"My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done.

The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two “interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country.

That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0. It made me realize for the first time that I live in a country with an ideology that is based on a total and complete lie. It also made me realize, not only how naive I had been, but also the incredible stupidity of the American public; that they buy, hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their “freedom”… and that they continue to do so with eyes closed in the face of overwhelming evidence and all that keeps happening in front of them."

and then this:

"So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I’d never enter another accountant’s office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to get professional help; a very big mistake.

When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl’s unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn’t have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me.

This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster trying to defend transactions that have no relationship to anything tax-related (at least the tax-related transactions were poorly documented). Things I never knew anything about and things my wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone. The end result is… well, just look around."

The guy didn't pay his taxes, got caught to the tune of $40,000+ and then, yet again, didn't file a return again, got caught to the tune of $10,000, and it goes on and on.

His beef was with paying taxes and, by extension, the IRS when they caught him cheating.

[DJ13]

11. Agreed.

Sure he was upset at the economy, it went sour at the same time as the IRS wanted to begin his third audit for evading taxes.

[leftofcool]

14. What I don't get is that 40k is not that much to be in hock

over, not even with the IRS. I have heard of many people owing much more than that. As much as I also sometimes hate the IRS, they will and do work out payment plans with people. They charge interest but they will work with you.

[TwixVoy]

17. Read the letter - MSM is mis-representing it

95% of the letter was related to issues OTHER than taxes. He even rips in to bushco.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

20. He rips Bush as "puppet" of something...it sounds like he was a conspiracy theorist.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

19. Especially if you own your own plane. nt

[Spazito]

41. I think he was more than $40,000 in hock...

From his screed, it seems the $40,000 was from not paying taxes in the 80s. How much of that was still owing plus penalties is unknown and, it seems, he failed to file a tax return more recently and was assessed for another $10,000.

To me, his rage was on the fact that he had to pay taxes at all rather than being 'over-taxed', etc.

The most telling part of his screed is the paragraphs related to his joining the anti-tax group in the 80s and everything after stems from that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

25. This guy will be hailed as a hero by the anarchist element on both sides..

of the political divide. He was an evil bastard ala Timothy McVeigh, who meant to kill innocent people. And anyone (like to the o.p.) who tries to qualify that by saying he has some valid points is just as insane as he obviously was.

There are millions of us who are unemployed, upside down in our mortgages, blah..blah..blah.. Perhaps the o.p. agreed with the killer of Dr. Tiller too? There is a never a reason to take an innocent life, and I don't care if you empathized with that asinine diatribe that he left, there is no justification for what he did.

[nashville_brook]

12. i would much rather see a healthy unionized workforce that regularly addresses

grievances with work stoppages and marches and strikes...than the random killing sprees/bloody massacres that have become commonplace.

good post. we need some real answers.

[Orrex]

13. If I owed a shitload of back taxes because of undisclosed income...

perhaps I'd start by selling my plane, rather than turning myself into a half-assed suicide bomber/terrorist.


But your point about these financially desperate times is well made.

[NoFace]

22. Hilarious.

hahaha

[Orrex]

23. Thanks. I'll be here all week.

Later on, I might treat you to a selection of tasteful Rush Limbaugh limericks.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DevonRex]

29. NO. THE PLANE WAS REGISTERED TO HIM. NT

[SemiCharmedQuark]

31. Nope. It has been verified that he owned his own plane.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. Facts:

Stack, according to neighbors, kept a Piper Cherokee at Georgetown Airport, a small suburban airport about 18 miles away.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1966476,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

A federal official told the Austin American-Statesman that the plane was registered to Joseph Andrew Stack, who is also the owner of a house that caught fire this morning.

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/manifesto-tied-to-joseph-andrew-stack-alleged-pilot-in-austin-plane-crash/19364026

You're a couple of hours behind. Everywhere now say it was his plane.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

38. Yep. And with that it mind, it becomes less about the poor, downtroden guy

and more about the asshole who just didn't WANT to pay his taxes.

[Spazito]

34. He did NOT steal it, it was his aircraft...

"A software engineer upset with the Internal Revenue Service set fire to his home Thursday and then flew HIS plane into a multistory office building that houses federal tax employees, authorities said."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35460268/ns/us_news-life/

(The capitalization of "HIS" is mine)

[NoFace]

35. Wrong again Twixvoy. Wow....maybe you should just cool down and come back to this later?

You know, take a walk or something. Get some perspective before you end up driving your car off a bridge or something.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

39. HE OWNED THE FUCKING PLANE, GENIUS. AND 99% OF HIS GRIPES

WERE TAX RELATED. YOU HAVE IT ALL WRONG.

[MineralMan]

15. Your opening disclaimer does not disguise your attempt to

justify this man's actions. We've had plenty of that crap this afternoon. If you want to discuss your issues, just write an OP about them. You needn't hook it to this incident.

[Neecy]

16. A guy knocked on my door yesterday

He offered to rake my yard for $10. He lives down the street from me and has been out of work for about a year.

He told me he hasn't eaten in two days. I'll repeat from your OP - WE NEED JOBS.

[MilesColtrane]

18. He probably would have had an easier time of it financially if he would have paid his taxes.

That interest and those penalties add up quick.

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. It seems he could afford a plane

I didn't see 'desperate' in his rant; I saw 'whining how his life isn't perfect'.

[DevonRex]

28. Good God. He's a fucking wacko who doesn't believe in paying taxes.

And he MURDERED people. This has NOTHING to do with economic recovery or the lack thereof.

[dmallind]

30. Whhhh? One gibbering murderer determines macroeconomic success or failure for a society?

Not since the days of Alexander!

To be even vaguely meaningful as a concept you would have to imagine

a) This person understood economics, finance, politics and sociology well enough to accurately assess the future (in which case he would be making enough money to buy the IRS let alone pay them).

b) The reason he overreacted was due to this assessment rather than his angst over being caught in a silly Wesley Snipes style tax dodge (which flies in the face of his own words).

You are also utterly wrong about his own letter. The vast majority is about his struggles with the IRS and his failure to understand tax law, file a proper appeal, and communicate with his own CPA. There are a couple of throwaway lines about corporate greed in the middle complaining that the rich get away with what he tried, and a cliche about capitalism at the end. Everything in between is a detailed exegesis of his unwillingness to understand and follow tax codes.

[cali]

32. ridiculous extrapolation

he was a fucking tax cheat/nut. people here really need to read with more insight. his note gives plenty of clues as to who he was.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. So, by an extension of this logic...

everybody whinging about the economy is a rich, tax evading asshole who's really got nothing to complain about?

[JoePhilly]

40. Learn to read trend lines ...

You do not go from losing 700,000 jobs a month to gaining jobs in one month, 6 months, or even 1 year.

You have to reverse a TREND.

And the reversal of that TREND can be seen HERE!!!!

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

[Jennicut]

42. I can't relate to someone who has an ax to grind about archaic tax law and owns a plane.

We should all be so lucky. Bet he had a decent house too before he decided to burn it down. He was trying to cheat the system instead of working to make it better. He was a coward who gave up. And his manifesto made no sense as it was rambling and all over the place on ideology. We do need jobs, but not nut jobs smashing planes in buildings and us holding them up as some kind of martyrs.

[Dover]

44. A "normal" guy.

[blogslut]

45. The man had been scamming the tax code for decades

Decades

[cry baby]

46. Naw, it shows that the man snapped under self imposed pressure. nt

[depakid]

47. Oh for crissakes

This had absolutely nothing to do anything along those lines.

[tinrobot]

48. The guy owned a private plane - so he had assets.

He was just too greedy to give them up. And if you read his manifesto, he admits to not reporting income and purposely avoiding taxes.

He was a garden variety tax cheat who added murder to his list of crimes. He has more in common with corporations who cheat to avoid taxes than the common man.

[WolverineDG]

49. Thank you for politicizing what, for me, could have been a family tragedy

As it is, I'm still in shock. My cousin was supposed to be in that building today, but was delayed in getting there & went to another site instead. As it is, one person is in a burn unit in San Antonio & another person my cousin knows is still missing & presumed dead.

So forgive me for not jumping on your bandwagon that this incident is "proof" there is no recovery. Had my cousin been in that building today, I would have been minus one family member.

dg

[Tarheel_Dem]

50. This didn't turn out quite the way you planned, huh? I think the concensus

is that a tax cheat tried to kill people, and you tried to canonize him. At least, that's my take away from this wreck of a thread. Shame on you.

[paulflorez]

51. Economy is recovering, this guy didn't seem too bright... why didn't he just leave US?

Ok, he says he lost $40,000 and that it took him 10 years to save that. I am an entry level software engineer, 3 years experience, get paid in the lowest 10% range and I still can save about $10,000 a year.

Also, he owned a plane. Planes are not cheap.

Last, everyone I've known that lost their job found a job in less than 6 months, many in just a couple months. My partner found a job in less time in 2009 than what it took me when I got laid off in 2006. My company recently lifted it's salary freeze and is hiring again.

There is undeniable recovery. Job losses have shrunk and we will soon see steady job creation. People are going to calm down and start spending more which will only help job hiring.

Why didn't this guy just leave the U.S. if he hated the government so much? He doesn't seem to bright to me, probably very mentally ill. Maybe he should have sold his plane and spent a couple years in therapy working on these issues.

[Nikki Stone1]

52. + 100000

Despite all the sick unrec'ers

[Geek_Girl]

53. I don't think DU really get this

This was an act of Civil Unrest/Domestic Terrorism and there are millions of Joe Stacks out there at their breaking point and desperate. And there are millions more that are just plain fet up, whether they are crazy wacko ignorant tea baggers or lefty liberals calling for a Guillotine Style off their heads French Revolution.

I have a very bad feeling that things may get very ugly if things don't improve quickly.