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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 04:33 AM
Original message
more on the Greek debt crisis
Greece has become a test case for draconian attacks on the living standards of broad sections of the population throughout Europe...

At their February 16 meeting, the EU finance ministers virtually disenfranchised the Greek government and placed the country’s budget under EU scrutiny. Such treatement of a member state has never occurred before in the history of the European Union. Every transaction of the Athens government will now be meticulously examined in Brussels, every vote in the national parliament closely monitored. The non-elected officials of the Brussels Commission and the European Central Bank (ECB) are taking control of an entire country, dictating their conditions to its government and parliament.

The cuts are being driven by the interests of the powerful financial institutions that determine the policies of the EU, as well as Europe’s largest economy, Germany. While most EU members wanted to give the Greek government time to implement the austerity measures it had already adopted, Germany, Austria and Sweden were insisting on the immediate tightening up of spending cuts. The state secretary in the German Finance Ministry, Jörg Asmussen, cited the examples of Latvia and Ireland, where public sector pay has been reduced by 20 and 15 percent, resepctively.

The measures are aimed at drastically cutting the living standards of broad layers of the population. According to the head of the German Ifo Institute, Hans-Werner Sinn, “The Greeks have become accustomed to the good life.” Now they need “to be prescribed a course of thrift: however difficult it is for the Greeks, they have to lower real wages.” And this, even though the national average wage is only half as high as in Germany, while prices are almost the same.

..For a long time, Germany was regarded as Europe’s “paymaster,” because it paid relatively large sums into the EU budget to compensate for regional differences. These served to expand and strengthen the EU, and the German economy, in turn, benefited the most. The corruption of the Greek elite, which now serves as a pretext for imposing brutal attacks on the working class, was tacitly condoned by Brussels and Berlin because it allowed the big corporations and banks to take over the Greek market.

But now Berlin is no longer willing to play the role of “paymaster.” The Merkel government has opposed any proposal to help the Greek government financially. The German media is full of propaganda about the Greek crisis being “home-made,” because the Greeks had been “living beyond their means.” For the German bourgeoisie, the issue is not so much the Greek debt, but the principle that the crisis should be paid for by the working class...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/feb2010/pers-f18.shtml


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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. Greece should drop out of the euro and inflate their way out of this
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 05:01 AM by dkf
Then their currency will devalue and everyone will have their purchasing power shrink from the top down. It's better than instituting measures that will throw the government into disarray.

And I don't see why the authors seem to feel Germany should pay for Greece when Germans have upped their retirement age to 67 to control their own debt situation while Greece still has theirs at 62. That would be wrong for Germans to do all the sacrificing to support someone else.

And the reason Greece is coming around with hat in hand is because they had a failed bond auction because there wasn't enough demand for their bonds.
That is the classic end to the story of having too much debt.

Coincidentally the Chinese are cutting back on buying our debt.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. coincidentally we don't need the chinese to "buy our debt" as much as the chinese need
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 05:23 AM by Hannah Bell
foreign markets.

20% of us debt = the social security trust fund. & japan, not china, is the biggest holder of us foreign debt.

http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

coincidentally, 50% of chinese exports are foreign-owned.

coincidentally, about 99% of chinese electronic exports are.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Chinese are starting to put their money elsewhere.
In the meantime Japan has an aging population and will be needing those funds eventually. So we have to fund day to day operations plus pay off the treasuries to Japan and China and pay back the social security retirees. Our young people better get cracking. I honestly don't know how they will support all of this.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. "their" money. half their exports are produced & wholly-owned by foreign companies.
"we're" in this boat because that's how our global owners want it.

we "owe" china & japan combined about $1.4 trillion. it's chickenfeed.

it's our (& europe's, & japan's, & hong kong's) corporations & investment class financing the chinese economic "miracle".
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Are you saying we can easily adjust if investors stay away from our treasury markets?
Chickenfeed sure sounds like it's no big deal. Guess we have nothing to fear from bond vigilantes either.
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damyank913 Donating Member (595 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Doesn't that also mean that the Chinese profit.
Regardless of who owns the company; the fact that the companies production facility is actually in China works pretty well for the Chinese. There are many communities in the USA that wish those same facilities were still in the US. At least they make stuff. The fastest growing jobs in the US are what I like to call Mc-Jobs. At the same time, money leaves the USA to pay for those Chinese exports/US imports.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. They can't. That's the whole point.
All of this idiocy is about only one thing, subjugating the world under a single absolute power.


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damyank913 Donating Member (595 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Actually, we do...
Not sure what your trying to say with the other statements.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. Wait until we get the IMF "austerity program" shoved down our throats.
That these parasites can even write shit like "The Greeks have become accustomed to the good life." Now they need "to be prescribed a course of thrift: however difficult it is for the Greeks, they have to lower real wages." without being torn to pieces is testament to the efficacy of propaganda and the ignorance of how things really work.
:kick: & R


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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Greece has an agreement to keep their deficit to 3% of GDP same as the rest of the countries
In the euro. The austerity measures will bring them from over 12% to 6% which is still twice what they ought to be. That is part of the Maastricht treaty they signed. It was all agreed to years ago but as soon as they got in they had Goldman sachs disguise their debt using derivatives. For 2009 every single country in the pact will exceed 3% but Greece is the worst.
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damyank913 Donating Member (595 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Interesting how that too big to fail mega-corporation is implicated in this...
Why don't we just give Goldman Sachs their own country.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Goldman might have pulled similar shenanigans with the other piigs too.
I hope they get blackballed from Europe. They are up to no good.
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damyank913 Donating Member (595 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. That'll never happen to us...
We have a war machine, remember. Good money in war. We'll just find more brown people to bring democracy to.
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