Pat Leahy yesterday surrendered the DOJ to the Pukes.

[BuyingThyme]

He was on Ed Schultz's show. He said that he didn't believe Gonzales was going to resign. He said it wouldn't make any difference anyways because Bush would just replace him with somebody similar. He said he would carry on with the "investigation" only to make the point to future administrations that they shouldn't try to pull the same crap. He decided to allow us to live in lawlessness for another two years or so.

Think about the message Leahy is sending to Bush. He's telling Bush that Gonzales is safe. He's telling Bush that he's not going to dig much deeper. He's telling Bush that impeachment is off the table.

I used to like this guy a lot. I thought he was holding these hearings because he wanted to hold the people who intimidated U.S. attorneys responsible. Now I know better. He's just putting on a show, just as Arlen Specter used to do.

Well, there's always John Conyers.

http://judiciary.house.gov/

[maddezmom]

1. I'd like to hear this for myself,,,anyone got a transcript

or a place to listen on line? And he's always promised to keep the investigation going even if Gonzales resigns, because bushco and the repugs seem to think if he does the investigation goes away.

[BuyingThyme]

4. I think Ed's guests' interviews are always posted.

[maddezmom]

15. just downloaded from his website...listening now

:hi:

[BuyingThyme]

8. I think it's here:

http://audio.wegoted.com/podcasting/042607HourThree.mp3

(I can't listen.)

[bigtree]

2. Leahy surrendering to republicans?

bullshit

[BuyingThyme]

5. That's what he did. I heard it with my own ears.

[bigtree]

7. I don't trust your ears

or your interpretation of surrender

[BuyingThyme]

10. Listen for yourself:

http://audio.wegoted.com/podcasting/042607HourThree.mp3

[maddezmom]

22. I think his point is, that only the administration can replace him

and they aren't going to, but the investigation will go on. :shrug: I think his hands are tied. What do you think he should do? Can he start impeachment proceeding? Do you think they'd have enough Dems?


He also talks about not going after the puppet, but going after the puppetmaster. Interesting interview so far.

[EstimatedProphet]

24. He can't start impeachment proceedings

He's a senator. Impeachment starts in the House.

[maddezmom]

26. thanks, that's what I thought, so what should he do

I say he's doing the right thing...keep the investigation going. :)

[EstimatedProphet]

30. Absolutely

[BuyingThyme]

25. The puppet master is off the table.

Well, he's actually just another puppet, but you know what I mean.

[tularetom]

3. Reid needs to slap him upside the head and remind him

which side he is on. The pressure on Gonzales needs to be cranked up not relaxed.

I think Leahy is in love with the sound of his own voice and he thinks a few tough talking sound bytes will placate the " base" who will then not notice that he never follows through on anything.

Very disappointing.

[hang a left]

20. Well that is a stretch...

the loving his voice stuff.

And I hope you are wrong. He has always been a hero of mine and I find it hard to believe he won't pursue this to the end. At least to establish some kind of precedence. I won't believe it, I can't believe it.

[mmonk]

6. They've all capitulated until the magic wand and pixie dust of 08.

[bigtree]

13. That's in fact the left's position

They want us to forget forging compromises which might move legislation forward; just protest against Democrats who dare to do the job of reconciling proposals into legislative form, and wait until '08 to replace them with a 'perfect' Democratic majority which will bend to their every ideological whim.

[mmonk]

19. Well I guess you told me.

Wonder what Alito thinks of all this?

[bigtree]

31. Is that, in fact, your position?

Many politicians on the left, and their most strident supporters who refer to themselves as 'progressives', know they don't have a large enough coalition in either body to effect their ideals into supported legislation which has enough votes to advance out of the chamber, much less to Bush's desk. The attitude of the most strident is to rail against the Democratic majority and eschew any attempts to forge the compromises necessary to enact legislation, given the present balance of power. They'd rather wait until '08 as they assume the public will be ready to elect more 'progressive' candidates to office who will do their bidding without the present obstruction from republicans and some of their own party members.

I don't see how legislators who are actively trying to forge compromises and advance legislation can be accurately accused of 'waiting for '08'; no more so than the left, at any rate.

[mmonk]

45. Here's my postion:

compromise n. A settlement of differences in which each side makes concessions.

Yes, I'm certainly for compromise under it's definition. It requires both sides.




Where I don't think compromise is necessary nor appropriate : the constitution. Equal protection laws. The Bill of Rights. Checks and balances under the constitution.

[peacetalksforall]

9. I don't interpret it the same way. They're not going to stop investigating.

And have you read the story about the new information DU is talking about in relation to Sampson, Gonzales, and Meirs? Related to Novation, US Bank, Piper Jaffrey, GE and more.

Man in KC MO applied for loan for business that would put hospital supply manufacturers in direct contact with hospitals - plan would save costs/medicare billions. Problem - this administration supports a middle group called Novation and Neoforma (known as GPO's) who have a business of costning citizens/medicare billions and taking plenty for themselves and friends.

Three Asst US Attys fired and two others died in untimely ways (one of whom signed subpoenas for the three to proceedd with an investigation of some wrongdoing in regard to medicare abuses, etc.

On top of everything - it looks like it's related to the firing of the attorneys. This business person is saying that the orignal list of US Attys had 10 names, one of the two not previously listed is involved in this Novation thing. It's not all over. Another scheme for political reasons (and profit) is playing out on an adjacent stage.

There is still plenty of possible obstruction, complicity, cover-up.

Are you sure Leahy was not just talking about only one of the investigations?

I'm one who kinda thinks Gonzales should stay where he is on the hot seat - trying to wiggle and do his job. If he resigns, they will make it easy for him to drop out of sight, especially the sight of the big five networks.

And they are going to have the testimony of Goodling. It's definitely not over. When Gonzales goes before the Committees for all these various investigations - and is stll a sitting AG - it's good for the country.
I don't think it's so bad, yet.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x758013
There is so much there - and plenty more to be excavated. By us. And the man who came up with the idea to save money might be sending some info to someone on DU.

[BuyingThyme]

11. I didn't say they were going to stop investigating.

And I KNOW they obstructed justice (among other things). But I don't think Leahy sees this for what it is.

Monica Goodling will sit before John Conyers. I'm putting my eggs in that basket.

[hang a left]

23. If anyone knows what is happening it's Leahy.

For my own psychological survival, I have to believe he is on our side. If not, he should be targeted by Blue America and the grassroots.

[peacetalksforall]

27. So you're just saying that you want Gonzales out of his job right now?

And you're disappointed that Leahy is not trying to get him out?

If yes, I don't think it's that bad. They ould get a lot of mileage out of excuses if someone else moved in. We have less than two years to expose all of them. It takes one solid case to do the job. And what we're seeing that the overlap is amazingly intricate, but so transparent - after the fact.

Remember, how they said they would change reality. I think we need Gonzales in the job to stumble in his lies because it IS all so intricate and layered. It takes a genius to keep up the lies and try to avoid stepping over the impeachment line. And he's not exactly a genius. I would rather he stay there with us learning the name of the lawyer he hires to defend him.

Yes, the more I think about it - putting someone else in place would not benefit either side. If they fire Gonzales - he, too, could take an immunity offer - they don't want that. And Bush is not going to keep him forever, as personal or government lawyer.

[BuyingThyme]

29. These animals have corrupted our highest order of law enforcement.

I don't understand even the slightest acquiescence.

We either have a system of laws or we don't.

[peacetalksforall]

47. I believe in manuevering and strategizing. Sometimes they know

a little more than we do and they know how to make moves more than we do. Sometimes, not.

[BonnieJW]

38. I think Leahy means that Gonzo is just a puppet;

and there's no point in going after him. He'll just wet his pants and say he doesn't remember. Meiers and Rove are where it's at. He's going after them.

[BuyingThyme]

39. Sorry, but that's not acceptable.

[maddezmom]

40. What do you want Leahy to do?

[BuyingThyme]

41. I want him to call for Gonzales to get the fuck our of my justice department.

[maddezmom]

44. I'm sure he agrees with you...not in so many words ;D

But he lacks the power to remove him. I think your anger may be misplaced.

[BlooInBloo]

12. LOLOL!!! Aaahhh... fickle holier-than-thou DUers - gotta love 'em!

EDIT: Help is on the way!

[BuyingThyme]

14. I'd love to see you try to explain your post.

But, instead, you will run away.

[BlooInBloo]

17. Yah - i ALWAYS run away - i'm KNOWN for being too cowardly to duke it out! lololol

[BuyingThyme]

18. You're not smart enough to know you just ran away from

the question at hand. So, I'll ask it again:

What the hell is your post supposed to mean?

[BlooInBloo]

35. It's not an issue of smarts - I'm just not very responsive to jackasses is all.

(Though admittedly I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.)

Post meaning for those knives who are even duller than me: When Leahy is doing things we like, within the government structure, like handing out subpoenas, DUers love him. When he does things we don't like, also a result of the structure of government, DUers hate him. Thus, fickle.

[BuyingThyme]

37. Wow, you've already been reduced to name calling?

I stated facts. You apparently hate facts when they don't serve you. Does this mean you're fickle?

[maddezmom]

43. some DU'ers

some of us DU'ers are willing to see where this goes and understand Leahy is under constraints. :) He's going to continue to investigate...that's all I'm asking.

[bigtree]

21. there it is

I heard it for myself

[BlooInBloo]

28. heh-heh!

[lovuian]

16. Its pretty obvious that the Senate is walking a tight rope

they have to have an investigation because the House would have it so they have to look like they are doing sumthin

Still I like to see Gonzales just say I don't recall and lie blatantly under oath to them

because in reality Congress is only pwerful when it uses its power

and unfortuntely our democrat senate is not powerful

the House is

as the saga continues

[hang a left]

36. I know you slipped up but IT IS

"Democratic" Senate.

I am on the wait and see program.

IMO they must challenge the Unitary Executive NOW!! We need precedents set. The court is not going to change anytime in the very near future.

I am sure that the requests from the legislative branch will not wait in line and will be given priority over any other matters. Ala selection 2000. The put that to the court immediately based on a constitutional challenge.

We have to put our toes in the water NOW! We have to know where we stand constitutionally according to the high court.

My hope is that the entire legislative process comes to a screeching halt until SOMEONE decides who is boss. We need to know because we have to know where we are as a country.

To me, nothing is more important that the standoff that exists right now between Bushco and the co-equal branch that is, according to our constitution, to provide over site.

THAT IS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE that faces our country right now. Either we are a democracy or we are a monarchy. I would prefer to know now.

[Vinca]

32. Leahy is sly like a fox. I doubt he's giving anything up. nt

[Captain Hilts]

34. We can't force AG to resign AND it's better for us that he stays. nt

[ReadTomPaine]

33. The answer to "he'll just pick someone else" is to provide a pre-approved list...

for the President to make his selection from and not confirm anyone who's off of it.

It would make a nice statement about control as well as insuring the replacement isn't another fixer like Alberto.

[jillan]

42. Leahy is a fighter

He is probably being a realist saying that the Senate can do only so much when there is an idiot in the WH that makes the final decision.

[LSK]

46. its not like Bush would nominate Fitz to replace him