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Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 04:33 AM
Original message
Amazon River Water Being Stolen and Bottled Abroad
A recently published report is exposing some shocking exploitation of the Amazon's natural resources--and this times it's water being stolen. Where is this water headed? According to the report, "tankers are quietly removing water" to be bottled and sold in Europe and the Middle East. This is coming at a time when regions of the northern Amazon region have been experiencing a devastating drought that threatens the livelihoods of its people. This burgeoning crime is known as hydro-piracy, and it could foreshadow a future of resource wars as clean water supplies become scarce.

Hydro-Piracy is Illegal, But Not Uncommon
This isn't the first time the crime of hydro-piracy has come to the attention of Amazon watchdog groups. Tankers were known to be exporting oil to South America and refilling their tanks with fresh water from the Amazon to import back to Europe and the Middle East.

It is estimated that each tanker returns with approximately 5 million gallons of Amazon River water. For bottling companies, it is considerably less expensive to treat freshwater than to procure it through desalinization.
<snip>
New Methods Arise as the Old Ones Go Unaddressed
The report discloses a new method being implemented to illegally export the Amazon River which may be more efficient for hydro-piracy. Instead of their internal tanks, large bags are being filled with freshwater and towed back across the Atlantic.
<snip>
Are They Taking More Than Just Water?
The interest in preserving the Amazon River, however, goes beyond politics. Scientists argue that biodiversity is being threatened by the trafficking. Professor Ary Haro of the Federal University of Parana:
Since it is still unknown, we can formulate theories and one of them may be linked to smuggling of fish or even of microorganisms.
<snip>
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/02/amazon-river-water-being-stolen-and-bottled-abroad.php

They may get more than they bargained for if they export the wrong microorganism.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. There's a market, in Europe, for "drinking" water from the Fukin Amazon?
:rofl:

If someone's that stupid why even bother hauling it. Pour it from the tap.

"Hey, this is piped in straight from the Amazon. Those Big Ass Amazon Women dug the pipe line in two days. With their ______"
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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. This is the dumbest article
Anyone ever been to the Amazon? It is 20 miles wide and 300 feet deep at Manaus, in the middle of Brazil. 4.2 million cubic feet of water per second
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. fuck thats a lot of water i wonder how many tankers worth it would take to even carry one seconds
worth of amazon water, though i for one dont think i would be buying it not when there is glacier water that we can be bottling :)
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Surprisingly few, just to do the calculation
If 4.2 million cubic feet per second is right:
4.2 million ft3 = 119 million litres = 748,000 barrels (of oil)
Capacity of world's largest tanker: 3,166,353 barrels

So it would take over 4 seconds to fill the tanker. I'm surprised by this, because I'd think if they parked the tanker sideways, you'd get far more than its capacity flowing past it in 4 seconds. I suspect I've made a big error in units somehere, but I can't see where. This tourist site says 12 billion litres per minute = 200 million litres per second = two thirds bigger than the 1st figure, but still the same magnitude.

OK, this still doesn't mean much for the Amazon flow. I also suspect this may be oil tankers that want ballast for a return journey, and have decided filling up with fresh(-ish) water is more profitable than seawater (which has to be processed anyway at the other end if it's in the oil tanks, before it's returned to the sea).
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. lol it took me a moment there i was thinking in terms of a tanker truck
i was thinking thats a hell of a capacity lol
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farmout rightarm Donating Member (680 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. They'd need one humongous pump and hose!!
But anyway that water is all about to go into the Atlantic anyway...which is where it would end up after being drunk in Europe so even if some of it is being hauled there it shouldn't matter...they could never take enough to make a dent in the hydroclime. Plus it has piranha poo in it.
:rofl:

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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. mmmm pirhana poo, fruity and meaty at the same time yumm
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
3.  that`s some tasty water!
i think it would cost a lot of money to separate the oil and water...
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Not to mention the mud

What tankers are going up the Amazon?

Of course most ships take on water ballast, but that's another story.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. I think I've found the original 'report'; it says they take the water at the mouth
Edited on Tue Feb-09-10 10:33 AM by muriel_volestrangler
and many sources say the Amazon alters the salinity of the sea for over 100 miles beyond the coast.

Here's what seems to be the original:

http://www.oabes.org.br/detalhe_artigo.asp?id=17

Written by Ilma de Camargos Pereira Barcellos, and referenced here: http://www.ecoagencia.com.br/?open=noticias&id=VZlSXRFWwJlUspFUjdEeXJ1aKVVVB1TP

The article has:

"Essa prática ilegal, no entanto, não pode ser negligenciada pelas autoridades brasileiras, tendo em vista que são considerados bens da União os lagos, rios e quaisquer correntes de água em terrenos de seu domínio"

which appears to be the original of

"This illegal practice can not be neglected by the Brazilian authorities in order to be considered property of the lakes, rivers and any water currents on lands owned by the (Federal government)."

so I think that is the 'report'. It says: "A captação geralmente é feita no ponto em que o rio deságua no Oceano Atlântico", which Google translates to "The collection is usually done at the point where the river empties into the Atlantic Ocean".

I wonder what the rules are about water that is some miles off the coast - does a 200 mile limit apply, like it does to fishing grounds, generally? Environmentally, I suspect the effect is unmeasurable. But you might say Brazil should try to get any share of the profits it can.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. How do you "steal water" at the mouth of a river?
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Maybe from this, from the Convention on the Law of the Sea:
1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State has:
sovereign rights for the purpose of exploring and exploiting, conserving and managing the natural resources, whether living or non-living, of the waters superjacent to the sea-bed and of the sea-bed and its subsoil, and with regard to other activities for the economic exploitation and exploration of the zone, such as the production of energy from the water, currents and winds;

jurisdiction as provided for in the relevant provisions of this Convention with regard to:

the establishment and use of artificial islands, installations and structures;

marine scientific research;

the protection and preservation of the marine environment;

other rights and duties provided for in this Convention.
...
The exclusive economic zone shall not extend beyond 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured.

http://www.hri.org/docs/LOS/part5-1.html


Arguably, the fresh water is a 'natural resource' of the waters. It is being used for economic purposes, if they're selling the stuff elsewhere.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Water would seem to be excluded from the definition

Water at the mouth of a river is anything but "fresh".

Ships take on water ballast all of the time.

But I would not agree that water is a natural resource "of the waters superjacent the seabed". The sentnce would appear to imply that water is the medium in which one might find such resouces.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Clearly the story is saying it is fresh
If you believe the whole thing is made up, then just say so. But plenty of other sources agree about the fresh water, eg:

The quantity of fresh water released to the Atlantic Ocean is enormous: up to 300,000 m³ per second in the rainy season. Indeed, the Amazon is responsible for a fifth of the total volume of fresh water entering the oceans worldwide. It is said that offshore of the mouth of the Amazon potable water can be drawn from the ocean while still out of sight of the coastline, and the salinity of the ocean is notably lower a hundred miles out to sea.

http://www.martinstrel.com/main.php?S=1&Folder=4&L=2


And they're not saying they can just tip the stuff into bottles at the other end; but with far lower salt concentrations, treating this water is cheaper than desalinating normal seawater.

'Waters' in the plural means the volume containing water. And taking water and selling it is 'economic exploitation' of the 'zone'.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. This may come as a surprise to you...
Edited on Wed Feb-10-10 07:38 AM by jberryhill
"If you believe the whole thing is made up, then just say so"

Do you know that it is possible to neither believe nor disbelieve something? There are in fact bizarre humans who will attempt to engage in discussion when they encounter unusual information.

I may be a little dense or slow for you, but the story strikes me as intriguing and a bit odd. I am trying to imagine where in Europe there would be facilities for receiving and processing tankerloads of water, or where this would make economic sense.

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. Can anyone find a link to the actual report?
Treehugger link to a lot of peripheral things in that article, but I can't find the actual article they're referring to - in Portuguese or English. And I've found that Treehugger has been a bit sensationalist in the past (and don't reply to requests for their sources), so they may have got hold of the wrong end of the stick. I'd like to see what the report says for itself.
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. It's like Cracker Jacks ... never know what you'll find in a bottle
I'd rather have them transporting water than oil
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
6. LMAO tequila has a worm...now water can come with a 'penis' fish
Drink up!
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. Capitalism is GREAT (until it works like intended.) nt
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
20. I hope every country with water sources starts clamping down on this
water wars are next..thats why the great lakes alliance was formed...to protect fresh water from being sold..hopefully laws will be enacted to stop this stealing of resources..

of course, the US military industrial complex will continue to pillage whatever they want anyway
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
21. I call bullshit
1. Get tanker.

2. Clean the tanks.

3. Drive tanker to Amazon.

4. Fill up tanker.

5. Drive tanker to Middle east.

6. Sell water.

7. Profit?

No, that is a lot of wasted fuel to drive around. Why not just pump it out of the ground in the ME? Or use the fuel to drive the tanker to desalinate sea water.

Plus the Amazon is completely huge (as noted above).
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